Psychic Reformation

[Urpriest]

I've heard before that Psychic Reformation isn't like the Dark Chaos Shuffle in that with Psychic Reformation you need to have met prerequisites back when you made the original choices. Aside from the fluff of revising past choices rather than making new ones, I can't really see support for that.

This came to mind when I was looking over the Sangehirn and realized that by the time most characters enter they would already have learned things like Body Adjustment that the Sangehirn gets at lower-than-egoist-level. If Psychic Reformation doesn't allow you to choose powers that are open to you now but wouldn't have been then, then that's pretty inconvenient.

[senrath]

As far as I can tell, Psychic Reformation just cares about what you qualify for now.

[Urpriest]

As far as I can tell, Psychic Reformation just cares about what you qualify for now.

So why does everyone say it's less broken than the Chaos Shuffle?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Chaos Shuffle can switch an Elf's racial bonus feats (martial weapon proficiency x4) for any feats they want.

[Urpriest]

Chaos Shuffle can switch an Elf's racial bonus feats (martial weapon proficiency x4) for any feats they want.

So why can't Psychic Reformation do this? Is it because the feats weren't gained at levelup?

[Psyren]

So why can't Psychic Reformation do this? Is it because the feats weren't gained at levelup?

Actually, yes:


When this power is manifested, the subject can choose to spend its most recently gained skill points differently (picking new skills and abandoning old ones if it chooses) and to choose a different feat from the one it selected when advancing from its previous level to its current level.

This clause stays intact even if you dig further back. However, there is no advancement "from level 0 to level 1" which is when racial feats would matter. Thus, Chaos Shuffle can go back one step further.

There's also the XP cost to do this; I don't know if Chaos Shuffle has a similar limitation, although going back 20 levels only costs 1000 xp, which you should be able to spare at that point. (After all, Reality Revision costs 5000!)

One interesting tidbit I dug up while perusing this one - These two WotC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060728a) articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060728a) recommend letting Limited Wish do the same thing as Psyreform. Handy to show your DM if he's psionics-shy. :smallsmile:

(Granted they are both by the same guy, so he must have been really fond of that ruling!)

[stainboy]

Correct. Psychic Reformation specifically only works for feats selected at levelup. Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos has no such restriction. What do you expect from a book whose cover is a marilith with no nipples?

E: Ninja'd.

@Psyren: I don't think Psychic Reformation would let you respec fixed bonus feats gained at any level. It only works for feats "selected" and the subject "must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats." So an elf ranger can't psyreform out of rapier proficiency or Endurance, because she never "selected" them, she just got them automatically. And a monk can respec Improved Grapple to Stunning Fist or vice versa, but he can't choose a different feat because the "standard rules" for selecting that bonus feat restrict it to Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist. Does that make sense?

[Psyren]

@Psyren: I don't think Psychic Reformation would let you respec fixed bonus feats gained at any level. It only works for feats "selected" and the subject "must abide by the standard rules for selecting skills and feats." So an elf ranger can't psyreform out of rapier proficiency or Endurance, because she never "selected" them, she just got them automatically. And a monk can respec Improved Grapple to Stunning Fist or vice versa, but he can't choose a different feat because the "standard rules" for selecting that bonus feat restrict it to Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist. Does that make sense?

Regarding the elf I agree, though such a distinction would be pretty rare to find in practice. For it to matter, you'd have to become an elf at some point after character creation; the only ways I can think of are Reincarnate and PAO and I'm not sure either of those give you racial feats.

Regarding the monk, the choices available to them are much broader than you think; with just a few additional sources it can come pretty close to "any feat." They definitely have more options than just Imp. Grapple or Stunning Fist.

[stainboy]

Yeah, I know, bad example. Should have said the monk can't select anything a monk couldn't normally take as a bonus feat.