Anti-grappling strategies for 1st lvl wizard?

[Privateer]

Next session we'll be heading out into swamps and I know for a fact there will be crocodiles, since one already attacked us on the way. Since crocs will hide and pounce on the weakest character, that'd probably be me, the squishy wizard.

I've been trying to come up with ways to survive this, but so far drawing a blank.

I haven't spent my loot from the previous adventure yet and can afford an item up to about 2,000gp (yeah, more than WBL, thanks to Merchantile Background:smallsmile:).

I've been eyeing Gloves of Lightning(MIC) for other reasons too. They'd let me do damage while in a grapple, but hardly enough to kill a croc.

I can also cast Grease on myself to get +10 Escape Artist bonus, but the problem is that I can't cast it in a grapple due to Somatic components and I can't cast it in advance since I don't know when the croc will pounce.

Last idea I had was to just stupidly buy a horse and ride it instead of walking with the party. Then the croc can't reach me from the water. :smallcool: Would it work?

Anybody has any other ideas?

[sambo.]

hmmm.

perhaps Mount or one of the Summon spells to get some bait for the crocs to attack instead of you?

[Human Paragon 3]

As long as the horse can walk through the swamp, I don't see why this wouldn't work. I doubt your DM will give you many multiple crocodile encounters, and the horse should save your ass at least once.

You could also get scrolls of Mount so you don't have to sacrifice a real horse, and won't run out of horses. A wand of Mount would also be pretty good.

There might be some alchemical item that makes your blood taste bad to animals? If you have ranks in craft:alchemy maybe you could make some on your own.

Or just travel in between your meat shields.

[RTGoodman]

Last idea I had was to just stupidly buy a horse and ride it instead of walking with the party. Then the croc can't reach me from the water. :smallcool: Would it work?

Horse? Why waste the money on one of those when you can buy a mule for 8gp? (Or a dozen of them for under 100gp!)


There might be some alchemical item that makes your blood taste bad to animals? If you have ranks in craft:alchemy maybe you could make some on your own.

There's a container of gut flies or something in Complete Scoundrel that makes monsters automatically throw you up if you're swallowed, but I don't know about just bit and held.

[Privateer]

[QUOTE=rtg0922;10507926]Horse? Why waste the money on one of those when you can buy a mule for 8gp? (Or a dozen of them for under 100gp!)
[QUOTE]

Haha, yeah. Actually, to take it further, the reason the croc didn't attack me in the last encounter was because we were herding some goats with us (payment from villagers for the last mission:smalltongue:), so it attacked one of them instead. :smallbiggrin:

But, yeah, I don't know if taking a goat herd into the swamps is such a good idea. Mule might be better.

[JeminiZero]

I haven't spent my loot from the previous adventure yet and can afford an item up to about 2,000gp (yeah, more than WBL, thanks to Merchantile Background:smallsmile:).

Anklets of Translocation: Teleport 10 ft as a swift action, 2x per day. Should let you teleport out of grapples, and hopefully out of reach of your enemy, where you can cast in safety. If not, an additional move action and tumble check may be in order.

[ffone]

It's been said, but Anklets of Translocation are almost everyone's fairly cheap anti-grapple strategy. Not quite affordable at level 1, but...

Abrupt Jaunt variant Conjurer. A ridiculously OP alternate class feature that lets you *immediate* not just swift) action teleport. That means (depending on DM interpretation) you can almost unilaterally auto-avoid a certain number of attacks a day. You don't even have to get grappled first, you could react to the touch attack.

Be warned many people consider this OP (I as a DM would probably downgrade it to a swift action, in part b/c immediate action abilities tend to slow down gameplay, esp. in PBP, and lead to arguments on how finely you can 'slip between' the pieces of a foe's or trap's action, like whether a ranged attack can be foiled even if your teleported-to square is in line of sight). But it's a great way to anti-grapple and anti-pretty much everything else. To avoid getting banninated, consider saving the uses for when you really need it (it has limited uses/day anyway). For example you may wish to use it only after getting grappled, rather than to prevent the grapple, at the possible cost of such crush/unarmed damage - both to conserve uses on the cases where the foe wouldn't failed to grapple you anyway, and to reduce chance of DM ire.

[steve_the_monk]

the sorcerer in one of my games at the moment had this dilemma, he'd give his cat familiar shocking grasp/grease (using the ability that lets it deliver touch spells) and he had it prepare action to shock anyone who touched him/grease himself. the still spell feat is good for grappling too, but those aren't viable for a level one character.

the only viable option is using prestidigitation to make yourself taste bad... but whether that works will be up to the dm.

[ericgrau]

Mules aren't trained for battle and crocs will spook them. Not good for your health. Also a big target for the croc.

Unless the rest of your party is in full plate your legs shouldn't be any more obvious of target. Maybe have a mule walk alongside the party so there's one more target to hit before you.

Other than mundane tricks like that there's not much you can do at 1st level. You're better off saving your spells for offense and hope you don't get attacked first. For example sleep the crocs.

[Andion Isurand]

You could take the Slippery Character Trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm) for a wee little help. :smallbiggrin:

[Runestar]

http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Grapplemancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Build)

Build your wizard to be good at grappling.

Human wizard1

Feats: IUS, Improved Grapple (+4 grapple) using flaws
Octopus familiar (+3 grapple)
If you have advance warning, enlarge person.

Crocs have a grapple check of +6. You can easily match that. :smallamused:

[FMArthur]

Crocs have Improved Grab, meaning that they will be trying to grab you after a successful bite attack... which deals 1d8+6, which at the minimum will bring a level one Wizard with 16 Constitution to 0 hit points. He needs to avoid getting hit altogether to survive.

[Runestar]

Crocs have Improved Grab, meaning that they will be trying to grab you after a successful bite attack... which deals 1d8+6, which at the minimum will bring a level one Wizard with 16 Constitution to 0 hit points. He needs to avoid getting hit altogether to survive.

hehheh, good point there. :smalleek:

[Tyndmyr]

Abrupt Jaunt is my favorite.

If you solve the initial hit, you solve the grapple.

[Cyrion]

Put some points into Profession (Sailor) and get a light skiff that you can pole through the water. You'll be most in danger from surprise attacks since crocs usually strike unaware foes in the water. Don't be wading in water deep enough to hide a croc. A skiff should be large enough to discourage most crocs.

[FMArthur]

Put some points into Profession (Sailor) and get a light skiff that you can pole through the water. You'll be most in danger from surprise attacks since crocs usually strike unaware foes in the water. Don't be wading in water deep enough to hide a croc. A skiff should be large enough to discourage most crocs.

That's real-world crocodile behaviour. D&D has bigger crocodiles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodileGiant.htm) that would be attracted instead, and often has wildlife more interested in providing challenging encounters for foes than actual feeding routines. :smallwink:

[Cyrion]

That's real-world crocodile behaviour. D&D has bigger crocodiles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/crocodileGiant.htm) that would be attracted instead, and often has wildlife more interested in providing challenging encounters for foes than actual feeding routines. :smallwink:

True, but in that case, the boat is a cheap one-shot meat shield that you don't have to feed (unlike the mule).

Also, unlike real crocodiles (fortunately), D&D crocodiles don't jump or have the run skill applied to their land speed.

[Zageidh]

Are you small size? If so, sit on the Fighter/paladin/whatever's shoulders.

[SleepyShadow]

Why get complicated? Just ride on top of the Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin/What-Have-You. You won't be in the water, the crocodile will go after the Big Dumb Fighter and, if you can swing it, said BDF won't even know you are using him for personal gain. He'll just think you wanted a piggy-back ride :smallbiggrin:

*Edit* Damn swordsages ....

[FMArthur]

The Fighter might not be dumb enough to sacrifice his ability to defend against deadly crocodiles easily capable of killing him just to keep you out of the water. In fact, whatever solution you use, you might want to share it.

[[CLASSIFIED]]

Crocs have Improved Grab, meaning that they will be trying to grab you after a successful bite attack... which deals 1d8+6, which at the minimum will bring a level one Wizard with 16 Constitution to 0 hit points. He needs to avoid getting hit altogether to survive.

Mage armor/shield might help boost your armor class to avoid getting hit. Also, if you can't avoid getting hit, Faerie Mysteries Initiate can change the stat that your HP runs on from CON to INT.

If you can act before the crocodile gets to you, Benign Transposition (SpC) to get your fighter in the path of crocodile instead of you or Expeditious Retreat might help. Horrible Taste (SpC) could help if you survive a first attack somehow.

Probably the best route is the Abrupt Jaunt though.

[gomipile]

Another option is to get a mithral buckler (0% arcane spell failure) and have a wand chamber installed in it. This lets you always have one wand readied, no matter what. Also, you can upgrade the wand as you level, which is helpful. This is especially helpful if our DM lets you buy (or craft, later on) partially full wands at a proportionally reduced cost.

Since a wand is spell trigger, you don’t need to make a grapple check to activate it, btw.

[FMArthur]

;10509624']Also, if you can't avoid getting hit, Faerie Mysteries Initiate can change the stat that your HP runs on from CON to INT.

Even if you had that and a race that allowed you to start with 20 Int, you'd only have 9 HP and a 5/8 chance of being dropped below zero on being hit. He really, really needs to devote his resources to avoid being hit unless he takes Diehard or multiple Toughness feats.

The best defense is probably being able to spot the crocs ahead of time to prevent a surprise attack. Even Abrupt Jaunt is dead weight when you're flat-footed. Are there any first-level spells to aid in this?

edit:

Another option is to get a mithral buckler (0% arcane spell failure) and have a wand chamber installed in it. This lets you always have one wand readied, no matter what. Also, you can upgrade the wand as you level, which is helpful. This is especially helpful if our DM lets you buy (or craft, later on) partially full wands at a proportionally reduced cost.

Since a wand is spell trigger, you don’t need to make a grapple check to activate it, btw.

How would he get any of that at first level? And he'd still be knocked unconscious if bitten, which is how crocs will initiate grapples.

[RTGoodman]

Mules aren't trained for battle and crocs will spook them. Not good for your health. Also a big target for the croc.

Well, you're not necessarily going to RIDE your mules. Buy a minimum of eight of them, and put one in each square adjacent to you. (You CAN also choose to ride one if you want, and have the rest of your starting dozen circling around the outside of your mule-shield.)

Basically, they're a living shield for only 8gp each. Crocs gotta get through them to get to you.

If they do break when they attack, we'll, you're probably safe, and you can most likely recover the herd pretty easily with some skill in Handle Animal.

[Mr.Smashy]

This may be a "Flavor thing" but i would buy a bird in a cage. Animals tend to have a sixth sense about certain things, especially birds as flighty as a finch, or sparrow. If the bird goes haywire, prepare for combat. (birds also tend to have decent spot mods, so if anything, its an extra set of eyes. I don't know of a single bird that sits still when there are potential predators around.)

[Electrohydra]

This may be a "Flavor thing" but i would buy a bird in a cage. Animals tend to have a sixth sense about certain things, especially birds as flighty as a finch, or sparrow. If the bird goes haywire, prepare for combat. (birds also tend to have decent spot mods, so if anything, its an extra set of eyes. I don't know of a single bird that sits still when there are potential predators around.)
Crocs hiding still in the water have +21 to hide, so assuming they take ten, that's a DC31 spot check to notice them, so first level PCs have no chance. But birds do, a hawk has +16 to spot, which means a 30% chance of spoting the croc, so possible but not reliable (unless you take more than one). Another option, by RAW a bat could know the croc is there within 20', without a spot check, but check that with your DM first since I think in real life echolocation is blocked by water.

[HalfDragonCube]

This (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101) thread has one or two slippery items that are fairly cheap in amongst other useful items, many of which are under 2,000gp.

I recommend to buy these:

a drow house insignia with Unseen servant inside - 360gp
a feather token, tree - 400gp
eight mules (six if you use a hex grid for minatures). - 8gp x 8 (or 6) = 64gp (or 48gp)


Total cost: 824gp (or 808gp for hex grids)

Get the unseen servant to hang around with the feather token while you're travelling and surround yourself with the mules at all times. When a crocodile leaps it will be blocked by one of the mules. Have the unseen servant float over activate the feather above the crocodile.

Splatch.

There may be a few problems if the crocodile bull rushes one of the mules into you, but few problems can't be solved with a plummeting tree.

Also, you might get better ideas if you state which spells you already have.

[Dvandemon]

There's the option of group hugging. If grapple is the only problem, apparently group-hugging stops grappling (and increases your speed too). Can anyone else explain that for me?

[SurlySeraph]

Babau Slime is a 1st-level SpC spell that lasts minutes/ level and does 1d8 acid damage per round to anyone grappling you. So buying a scroll of it and learning it would just cost 25 gp; and if you want more guaranteed protection, a CL 1 wand is 750 gp. Surround yourself with edible things so you have time to put it up, and you should be fine.

[FMArthur]

There's the option of group hugging. If grapple is the only problem, apparently group-hugging stops grappling (and increases your speed too). Can anyone else explain that for me?

Uh... maybe this is referring to the wierdness of the grapple rules. If you are all grappled together to begin with you would all get to oppose the grapple check of foes by taking the best of all your rolls. If you beat your fellow grapplers in a grapple check you can move up to half your speed with them, so if everyone had a way to skyrocket their grapple modifier only on their own turns they could beat the rest of the group and move them all at half speed (and thus the whole group combined would be able to move stupid amounts of distance using all of their turns).

[dextercorvia]

If you have one rank in UMD and a Raven familiar, buy several wands of Floating Disk with one charge remaining. (You can use scrolls, but you will want to share a casting of Read Magic with your familiar to avoid having to make the Decipher DC.) You will also want a masterwork UMD item, and Aid another, will give your Raven at least +3 to the check (more if someone else in the party has UMD for Aid Another). So he will succeed 20% of the time in activating it. Then you can ride on the disk while he flies along.

I would allow your party to let him do the same for them, if they pick up a few wands out of their own loot.

[Privateer]

Thanks all for the advice. The session is not until the weekend, so keep 'em coming if you have ideas.


In fact, whatever solution you use, you might want to share it.

So far I'm leaning towards providing more targets for the croc to minimize my chances of being hit. As you said, crocs are pretty mean things and if one hits me, I might no longer have the ability to teleport away.

I figured rather than mules, I will use guards dogs. SRD lists them at 25gp each to mule's 8, but they can also help fight. And at 6 hp a dog is almost as survivable as me.

[Acero]

Do you have time to research a spell with knockback?

Or just don't travel single file to increase your odds of survivial.

[FMArthur]

Put some points into Profession (Sailor) and get a light skiff that you can pole through the water. You'll be most in danger from surprise attacks since crocs usually strike unaware foes in the water. Don't be wading in water deep enough to hide a croc. A skiff should be large enough to discourage most crocs.

I did like this solution best even though I jokingly replied negatively to it. The guard dogs would also be much lighter than mules, allowing you to take them aboard the skiff to get both 'layers' of protection out of it.

[HalfDragonCube]

Buy a sack and lots of caltrops.

Throw one down a crocodile's gullet if it fells like eating you.

Chewy... :smalleek:

[Cartigan]

http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Grapplemancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Build)

Build your wizard to be good at grappling.

Human wizard1

Feats: IUS, Improved Grapple (+4 grapple) using flaws
Octopus familiar (+3 grapple)
If you have advance warning, enlarge person.

Crocs have a grapple check of +6. You can easily match that. :smallamused:
"So THEN the first level Wizard grappled the crocodile TO DEATH."

[dextercorvia]

"So THEN the first level Wizard grappled the crocodile TO DEATH."

You need some way to sneak up on the Croc first.

[Boci]

Just a note on the anklet of translocation: it has a verbam component so you might not be able to escape a pin with it.

[Bakkan]

Take a look at Benign Transposition (Spell Compendium), which switches the places of two willing creatures (you and an ally or you and an unconscious enemy, for example). No somatic component, so it can be cast in a grapple, or you can use it to put the BSF next to the croc that just snuck up on you.

[Privateer]

Well, the session took place and we did indeed get croc-attacked, but it was not as dangerous as I thought. The animal revealed himself too early (I guess DM was being nice, since a successful sneak strike from this beast could kill our 1-lvl chars), and we all got pretty lucky shots with our ranged weapons, downing it before it bit anyone.

So my dogs ended up just standing there and being useless. :) Better safe than sorry, though!

[Endarire]

Consider this (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=13119&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=).