A Gnomish Problem

[Milo v3]

I am extremly biased against gnomes as many have seen on the Gnomes Vs. Kobolds Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180054).

My campaign "Blades of Keran" has gnomes in it and so far my hatred of gnomes has made the Gnome Page horrible. I need help making it better when it comes to fluff and stuff.

Heres a link (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Gnomes(Keran_Race)). Can anyone please help?

[Barbin]

How dare you insult us with such vile lies! Gnomes are the master race, you... ugh... Kobolds can go back to your little backward villiages while we make great inventions!

Back on topic: The only advice I can give you is try your best to keep your opinions neutral.

[Milo v3]

How dare you insult us with such vile lies! Gnomes are the master race, you... ugh... Kobolds can go back to your little backward villiages while we make great inventions!

Back on topic: The only advice I can give you is try your best to keep your opinions neutral.

It is the gnomes that are backwards. All they do is pull pranks. We noble kobolds enjoy the finer things like swimming is heated pools of water, making traps. Gnomes are horrid and and should all be killed. We Kobolds living in glorious mines not villages or hills like you fools.

Back on topic: I can't get past my bias. I hate gnomes so much.

[Gnorman]

If you hate them so much, why try to force them into your campaign world?

Just say that thousands of years ago, the kobolds and gnomes had a war. And the kobolds won. Now gnomes are extinct.

[Thugorp]

Gnomes are my very very favorite race, I will help you edit that later... the invention thing... is that something specific to your campaign? Because other wise, I am probably going to down play that quite a bit. It is usually only a small part of their over all, "racial personality," unless you are talking about tinker gnomes and they are no longer cannon in D&D(thank gods). ... Also, Gnomes get +2 constitution and -2 strength; as oposed to the +2 Int. you posted. :-)

[Milo v3]

If you hate them so much, why try to force them into your campaign world?

Just say that thousands of years ago, the kobolds and gnomes had a war. And the kobolds won. Now gnomes are extinct.

I keep them because if they all died then their would be no gnomes to torture.

They are part of my world but I still hate them. They are a needed part. They fill the role of the annoying race that some players seek to kill just because they are gnomes. Also without gnomes my homebrew spell "Gnomicide" is useless.

[Gnorman]

I don't see how that's needed or even a good idea. Having a race exist only to be a whipping boy / buttmonkey sounds like a quick road to breaking immersion.

[Mayhem]

They need a niche to fill, otherwise there's not much point to having them. Merchants and rogues are currently empty, so maybe they're like stereotypical -cut- of racist jokes driving hard bargains and have been hunted to near extinction and yet still some bold souls continue plaguing metropolitan cities with their antics(which combines both niches I suppose)? Except of course, they would actually deserve what they get for all their pesky "pranks," like exploding horse feed and gold coated lead coins.

Edit: I cut that ethnicity because it was poorly thought out and potentially offensive

[Milo v3]

These are different to the prank gnomes. The gnomes in my setting are tinkerers. I only really have them because they were the ones that commited atrocities to the Kobolds by the way of a inventon which destroyed the Great Mine.

[Barbin]

It is the gnomes that are backwards. All they do is pull pranks. We noble kobolds enjoy the finer things like swimming is heated pools of water, making traps. Gnomes are horrid and and should all be killed. We Kobolds living in glorious mines not villages or hills like you fools.

Back on topic: I can't get past my bias. I hate gnomes so much.

If you will not accept the truth I shall declare war on thee! Ready yourself for the greatist battle ever known in the multivers!

Back on topic: Group therapy with gnomes?..

[Mayhem]

Maybe the gnomes helped the midflayers create the Aegis, and kept them enslaved after they found out they were sentient.

[Milo v3]

If you will not accept the truth I shall declare war on thee! Ready yourself for the greatist battle ever known in the multivers!

Back on topic: Group therapy with gnomes?..

Are you suggesting a second Gnomes Vs. Kobolds thread. If so I will if only to prove to fools like you that kobolds are supperior to puny gnomes.:smallamused:

Back on Topic: What do you mean by Group therapy? The only thing I can think of is amazingly similar to torture.

Edit: Good idea mayhem. You've now sparked a bushfire.The Gnomes could have been slaves to the Mindflayers create the Aegis then during the war. The Kobolds turned some sentient they then rebeled against their masters with the help of the kobolds. The Gnomes have hated the kobolds ever since for giving their prized inventions free will. The gnomes eventually became allied with the Karmainians and this along with evil dragons made Kobold have horrible relations with other races. The Kobolds hate the gnomes hugely for turning the other races against them.

[Barbin]

Are you suggesting a second Gnomes Vs. Kobolds thread. If so I will if only to prove to fools like you that kobolds are supperior to puny gnomes.:smallamused:

Back on Topic: What do you mean by Group therapy? The only thing I can think of is amazingly similar to torture.

Edit: Good idea mayhem. You've now sparked a bushfire.The Gnomes could have been slaves to the Mindflayers create the Aegis then during the war. The Kobolds turned some sentient they then rebeled against their masters with the help of the kobolds. The Gnomes have hated the kobolds ever since for giving their prized inventions free will. The gnomes eventually became allied with the Karmainians and this along with evil dragons made Kobold have horrible relations with other races. The Kobolds hate the gnomes hugely for turning the other races against them.


I do not want mere thread kobold... I want full scale war! You may say this is madness... pah! I've embraced madness long ago, and I've use that madness to make an army of giant robots!

So... Will this be a war or a slaughter?


Back on topic: This is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr!.. Sorry. :smallredface:

Group therapy with gnomes and kobolds, try it!

Or you could give the bassics to someone who is neutral between gnomes/kobolds and give him the basics of what you want so he can wright it.

[Mayhem]

Sounds good man, and whether or not the kobolds gave the aegis free will the results could be the the same.

Maybe the gnomes say the kobolds gave the aegis free will out of jealousy and the kobolds say they always had free will. The liberating durzites side with the kobolds, against the fellow small race they once called brothers.

EDIT: I thought the durzites freed the aegis? I must have misread. Ignor the bit about durzites then.

[Milo v3]

I do not want mere thread kobold... I want full scale war! You may say this is madness... pah! I've embraced madness long ago, and I've use that madness to make an army of giant robots!

So... Will this be a war or a slaughter?


Back on topic: This is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr!.. Sorry. :smallredface:

Group therapy with gnomes and kobolds, try it!

Or you could give the basics to someone who is neutral between gnomes/kobolds and give him the basics of what you want so he can right it.

I to have embraced madness. But none the less, you and your gnomes are no match for my Kobolds. We will destroy your stupid homes and slay your ignorant children. You vile semi-sentient humanoids.

Back on Topic: Your On Gnome. We will kill you all!!!!!!!!!:smallwink:

I don't think group therapy will work. Kobolds are abit to keen on revenge and gnomes are all ignorant.

I can't let my "real world" (I think it the real world) friends do the edits as I have turned them into anti-gnome people. Except one and he is anti-kobold.

How do you fell about a post-by-post game thread were its a Gnome Vs. Kobold War?

[Mayhem]

I'd join you in a game of kobold versus gnome. A kobold slaver specialising with bolas and net would be interesting.

[Milo v3]

Milo v3, Mayhem, and Kobolds. You gnomes don't stand a chance.

How's it going to work? Is it going to like an TBS, RTS, d20 game? Once we figure out the details this war is on.

Until then "Truce" (Extend hand out to gnomes (I Ready a touch spell)):smallamused:

[Mayhem]

Good question. Maybe assemble strike teams to infiltrate each other's dungeons navigating through traps and guards of approximately the same CR to slay the opponent's king?

[Milo v3]

Lets use the Keran Setting I hear its great. I think Mayhem has heard of it.:smallwink:
Here is a link (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Blades_Of_Keran_(3.5e_Campaign_Setting))to the main page of the setting. Saddly it hasn't finished uploading.

Also the creator of the setting has create a thread to answer questions and fix problems. Here it is. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189606)

[Mayhem]

Heh, using a game as a pretense for using players to create a history chapter of your campaign setting. Genius! :smallwink:

[Milo v3]

Thanks. :smallamused:
I based the players in the Second Era when I first created the campaign. Lets just say they were the Dunesti.

[Darthteej]

I don't see how that's needed or even a good idea. Having a race exist only to be a whipping boy / buttmonkey sounds like a quick road to breaking immersion.

Except that's already exactly what Kobolds are. Besides which, everyone knows that Start of Darkness:Gods made them that way to make their clerics awesomer.

[Mayhem]

Haha, awesome. I've got to read your history properly now, rather than just skim.

I think having one group dm(most likely one head dm with co-dms probably just playing monsters in combats) and the other be adventurers and swapping over could work if we come up with a few key scenarios. It'd be awkward though, since the dms would have to be cruel but fair.

Some ideas:
-Gnomes attemp to assasinate the kobold sorceror king
-Kobolds have found a gnomish warband marching on an unsuspecting village and need to warn the villagers before it's too late.
-kobolds attemp to kidnap a gnome prince.
-Gnomes are building an army of cannons, which the kobolds need to destroy.

Edit:Actually, we could also do massive armies clashing together, and the outcome being decided on key points in the conflict, or even a direct confrontation of a kobold elite unit facing off against an elite gnome unit.

[Mayhem]

-double post-

[Milo v3]

A huge encounter would be the Kobold's attacking the gnomes attacking the Gnome Capitial of Aquiter. Its a huge city which floats in the middle of the ocean. And guess what, its powered by a single steam generator. Its amazingly well guarded but none the less it would be a great encounter.
The only other proper gnome lands are the Turvarn Mountains (Just South of South Karma)

While the Kobold lands are the Kratoan Mountains (In Kratoa obviously), and the Dragon Isles (Which is also home to Dragons). They have a small settlement in the ruins as well (The large brown island with the volcano).

[Mayhem]

And if the kobolds succeed in destroying the city of Aquiter, it would lead to many potential adventure hooks:
-Ships have been going missing around where the lost city of aquiter is thought to have been. Surviving sailors have been bringing back strange tails of gnomes coming from beneath the waves. The gnomes blame kobold warships, but the kobolds say these are patroling to protect those waters. The culprits are actually a race of Mergnomes, enslaved by aboleths.

-An artifact crucial to the partie's goals is rumoured to be at the lost city of Aquiter.

-The Big Bad has set up camp in the lost city.

-The city is said to have been overflowing in riches.

[Milo v3]

And if the kobolds succeed in destroying the city of Aquiter, it would lead to many potential adventure hooks:
-Ships have been going missing around where the lost city of aquiter is thought to have been. Surviving sailors have been bringing back strange tails of gnomes coming from beneath the waves. The gnomes blame kobold warships, but the kobolds say these are patroling to protect those waters. The culprits are actually a race of Mergnomes, enslaved by aboleths.

-An artifact crucial to the partie's goals is rumoured to be at the lost city of Aquiter.

-The Big Bad has set up camp in the lost city.

-The city is said to have been overflowing in riches.


These are a great idea. The Kobolds should definatly destory Aquiter. I haven't actually named Aquiter on the map but it is their (Its the Grey Island South of Kratoa) the thing is it moves to protect it from Danger so the kobolds have to find it.

Also with the riches in the city. (It turns out to be full of steampowered and clockwork constructs which guard inventions of the gnomes)

[Mayhem]

This could add another time period to set campaigns in if you wanted to add a steampunk flavour to a campaign. Imagine if Aquatern clockwork caravans occasionally sold their services to foreign agencies, and they were crewed by gnome engineers/demolition experts and hired dwarven caravan guards/porters. The world's wealthiest would travel in style on luxury steam boats travelling to and from the secret city, with much fine foods, drinks, and excessive gambling(ala the victorian american river boats iirc). Some mainland cities of various nations would flourish under trade and as favoured Aquiter gnome holiday spots. Maybe Aquiter even created clockwork repeating crossbows capable of self reloading, which are as good as regular heavy crossbows but with a much higher rate of fire.

After Aquiter, the legendary city state, is destroyed many of those florishing cities would shrivel. Some might even be deserted altogether and become home to secret kobold nations shrewd enough to take advantage of possible treasures left behind( which could itself lead to adventure hooks involving lost aquatern treasures exported and abandoned but found by kobolds).

Edit: In your campaign world the gnomish hooked hammer might have its origin from the above caravan teams, originally as a tool developed for working with the mechanical caravans. Also, I know you want to travel in style with your adventurer buddies in a steampunk tank!

[Milo v3]

I was going to make Gnomes paranoid and don't let other races near their cities for fear of others stealing their ideas. Other than that it sounds good. The gnomes would be the only ones that understand the steampunk tech and when the city is destroyed the gnoledge (Get it (Know - Gno)) would be lost leaving strange and weird devices of gnomish make in the city. Steam Trains and other devices are inactive as none know how to power them. Other than the Gnomes that is and even then many don't know the Gnomish Knowledge.

[Mayhem]

Yeah I forgot to add that after the cities destruction the gnomes would abandon their stuff and hightail it to hidden cities. The strange gnomish crafts would probably be powered with as much magic as tech, or with some obscure alchemical compounds only made in Aquiter anyway. They could have floating trade stations as halfway points for aquiter merchants to trade with foreigners, not sure how that theory would work in practice though with ocean storms and all.

Although it would be pretty cool if the kobolds got their hands on some very crude and rudimentary steam/clockwork tech to construct a giant drill to build the greatest mine in history.

[Milo v3]

We will make the Steam Punk items rare, expensive and exotic. But they are becoming rarer and rarer each day.
The kobolds would proably try and get these only to findout how to destroy them better, findout their weakspots, ect.

[Roderick_BR]

If you hate them so much, why try to force them into your campaign world?

Just say that thousands of years ago, the kobolds and gnomes had a war. And the kobolds won. Now gnomes are extinct.

Or just don't add them at all. Simple.

PC1: Hey, ever heard about gnomes?
PC2: Gnowhat? No, can't say I have. But I did hear something about fairydragons.
PC1: Fire dragons? Yeah, I saw some...
PC2: No, FAIRY dragons.
PC1: Nope, never heard about it either.

In other topic: You should really work on this bias, or your campaign world and/or campains will be terribly unbalanced.

[sigurd]

If you want a race as an enemy and you are the DM you have to spend some time working for that enemy's cause. That includes having a perspective on the race that is not coloured by the kobolds. Have a believable idea of how the gnomes see themselves and start from there.

Its ok to say the kobolds win every battle only if you don't want any resistance to the kobolds and no gnomes to fight.

[Milo v3]

I'm keeping them and not making them extinct.

I am not going to let the Kobolds win every battle that would letting my bias force history down a road I don't want it to go. Example I don't like the people of north Karma but they still aren't extinct. They fought back and won a good number of battles.

Here is the pages for the War:

Out of Character Page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191196)
The War itself (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191195)