Rogue/Warblade Trapfinder? (3.5)

[Chilingsworth]

Hey Playgrounders!

Well, the wizard character I worked on so hard died in his first encounter and is unlikely to be raised due to intraparty factions. :smallsigh:

So, I'm working on a new character. I'd like to build a multiclass rogue/warblade. The character has to be as skilled as possible at finding, disabling/bypassing and repairing traps. I also want to be good at combat, even against uncritible things (like constructs and undead, specifically.)

Character is level 10. Human. 32 point buy. 53,000 gp to spend (49,000 base, plus 4,000 bonus for the faction the character will belong to.) all basic classes get an additional 2 base skill points per level. Also, humans get +1 to one ability score, and -1 to one ability score (can both be applied to the same score, for no net change.) I also get three cultural bonus feats (which I've chosen as Able Learner [acquired at lv 1,] Heat Endurance [acquired at lv. 3,] and Second Wind [acquired at level 6.])

My starting idea is to build a rogue 2/warblade 8 character. This way, I'll have 5th level manuvers and evasion

Anything else I might find useful?

[FMArthur]

If you're not set on those particular classes, a Ranger can use the Dungeonscape ACF to give up tracking for trapfinding and Disable Device in-class, has lots of skill points and is full BAB. The Mystic Ranger variant gives up the useless Ranger Animal Companion and slightly delays Favored Enemy and Weapon Style progression in exchange for spellcasting that starts early, gives more spells and progresses fast. Ranger spells from the Spell Compendium are pretty cool for melee characters, with stuff like Rhino's Rush, Lion's Charge, and Blade Storm, plus that one spell from PHII that gives you Sneak Attack - all being fairly natural, mundane-feeling abilities merely accessed through a spellcasting mechanic. So you could get your trap finding, Sneak Attacking skillmonkey on while still getting full BAB and powerful melee combat options functionally similar to your Warblade maneuvers.

If you really wanted to go crazy you could take Sword of the Arcane Order and cast Wizard spells out of those Ranger slots but that's a bit far off of what you wanted (although this does open up a lot of similarly mundane-feeling spells that you could limit yourself to).

[Keld Denar]

Are you going to go TWF or 2-hander?

Some things to consider:
Staggering Strike (CWarrior), when you SA someone, they have to make a fort save vs your damage or be staggered (single action, similar to slowed). Requires a +6 BAB and 1d6 SA damage minimum, so you could get it with your 9th level feat. This is REALLY strong, as it prevents foes from full attacking you back, and with high damage strikes like some Diamond Mind and Tiger Claw and Stone Dragon have, the save you force can be pretty high.

Craven (Champions of Ruin), this feat adds your character level to SA damage. Its static bonus damage, so it multiplies on a crit (unlike SA).

If I was you, I'd avoid TWF...its too feat heavy for now. Get a nice 2hander, even one with reach like a glaive, and focus primarily on 2handed PA damage. Be more of a thug rogue than a finesse rogue. Use that one SA die to really hammer people with what are normally roguey feats, but that benefit hugely from a 2hander. This also has the advantage of not being super precision dependant, as PA damage works against constructs just fine.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Hmmm a Sublime Way Ranger (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19519074/Sublime_Way_Variant_Ranger) 10 with the already mentioned ACF from Dungeonscape, is a great way to make a skilful martial character.

[Chilingsworth]

Sadly, Dungeonscape isn't on my group's approved list. :smallfrown:

Also, class ACF's are iffy.

Thanks for those tips, Keld! I'll definately consider them! (I was thinking spiked chain for a weapon, by taking an exotic weapon profficency, I can figure out how to use any exotic weapon with warblade if I find reason to, and spiked chain is of course quite good.)

[OMG PONIES]

If you're dumping INT, Tactile Trapsmith (Complete Adventurer) might be worth looking at, since it makes Search and Disable Device DEX-based skills. With a warblade, however, you'd be better served by having some points in INT.

[Keld Denar]

Spiked Chains are really only great for controllers. If your focus is primarily damage, you'll do good in nearly every other situation with a simple 5' step and a full attack, or a move action + strike. Go with a glaive and make sure you put armor spikes on your armor (always a smart idea, reach weapon or not!). You should almost NEVER need them, but if you get grappled, swallowed, or you find yourself pinned down in a narrow corridor, they are nice to have. You can always initiate a high damage strike with your armor spikes, and for something like Insightful Strike, it totally won't matter what weapon you use.

So, Human Rogue2/Warblade8

H Power Attack, Able Learner(bonus)
1 Craven
3 [Feat], Heat Endurance(bonus)
6 [Feat], Second Wind(bonus)
7B Combat Reflexes
9 Staggering Strike

Still 2 feats there to fill, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be infinitely important. You can always go with utility feats like Improved Toughness (CWarrior) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) if you want.

32 PB, probably...

Str 17 (13 pts)
Dex 14 (6 pts)
Con 14 (6 pts)
Int 12 (4 pts)
Wis 11 (3 pts)
Cha 8 (0 pts)

Which, after racials becomes Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8, with your level 4 and 8 points going to make your Str 20 base.

Maneuvers

{table=head]Level|Class|IL|Gain|Lose|Stance
1|Rogue1|0|
2|Rogue2|1|
3|Warblade1|2|Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind||Punishing Stance
4|Warblade2|3|Emerald Razor||
5|Warblade3|4|Mountain Hammer||
6|Warblade4|5|Soaring Rapter Strike|Wolf Fang Strike|Absolute Steel Stance
7|Warblade5|6|Insightful Strike||
8|Warblade6|7|Mithril Tornado|Steel Wind|
9|Warbadel79|8|Ruby Nightmare Strike||
10|Warblade8|9|Disrupting Blow|Soaring Rapter Strike|
[/table]
That leaves you with Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer, Insightful Strike, Mithril Tornado, Ruby Nightmare Strike, and Disrupting Blow known.

You have 4 readied, you'll probably have Disrupting Blow, Ruby Nightmare Strike, Insightful Strike, and Mithril Tornado readied ay any given time, possible swapping out IS for Emerald Razor and MT for MoPM, depending on what you think you'll fight.

As far as gear, get:
+1 Adamantine Iron Heart Glaive (11000g + change)
+1 Mithril Deathward(MIC) Breastplate (8500g)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9000g)
Anklets of Translocation (1400g, MIC)
+2 Str Belt (4000g)
+2 Con Neck (4000g)
Scout's Headband (3400g, MIC)
Lesser Revelation Crystal (1000g, MIC)
Third Eye: Clarity (3000g, MIC)
Tunic of Steadfast Concentration (2500g, MIC)

That leaves you with ~5000 worth of other misc gear. That covers most of your basic defensive and offensive requirements while giving you the biggest bang for your buck. You might consider picking up an extra Scout's Headband and Anklets of Translocation and swapping them out between encounters as needed. A 2nd Third Eye would also be good. Otherwise save the jink for a better +Str and +Con item and more enchants for your weapon and armor.

[Chilingsworth]

Spiked Chains are really only great for controllers. If your focus is primarily damage, you'll do good in nearly every other situation with a simple 5' step and a full attack, or a move action + strike. Go with a glaive and make sure you put armor spikes on your armor (always a smart idea, reach weapon or not!). You should almost NEVER need them, but if you get grappled, swallowed, or you find yourself pinned down in a narrow corridor, they are nice to have. You can always initiate a high damage strike with your armor spikes, and for something like Insightful Strike, it totally won't matter what weapon you use.

So, Human Rogue2/Warblade8

H Power Attack, Able Learner(bonus)
1 Craven
3 [Feat], Heat Endurance(bonus)
6 [Feat], Second Wind(bonus)
7B Combat Reflexes
9 Staggering Strike

Still 2 feats there to fill, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that would be infinitely important. You can always go with utility feats like Improved Toughness (CWarrior) and Quick Recovery (Lords of Madness) if you want.

32 PB, probably...

Str 17 (13 pts)
Dex 14 (6 pts)
Con 14 (6 pts)
Int 12 (4 pts)
Wis 11 (3 pts)
Cha 8 (0 pts)

Which, after racials becomes Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8, with your level 4 and 8 points going to make your Str 20 base.

Maneuvers

{table=head]Level|Class|IL|Gain|Lose|Stance
1|Rogue1|0|
2|Rogue2|1|
3|Warblade1|2|Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind||Punishing Stance
4|Warblade2|3|Emerald Razor||
5|Warblade3|4|Mountain Hammer||
6|Warblade4|5|Soaring Rapter Strike|Wolf Fang Strike|Absolute Steel Stance
7|Warblade5|6|Insightful Strike||
8|Warblade6|7|Mithril Tornado|Steel Wind|
9|Warbadel79|8|Ruby Nightmare Strike||
10|Warblade8|9|Disrupting Blow|Soaring Rapter Strike|
[/table]
That leaves you with Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Mountain Hammer, Insightful Strike, Mithril Tornado, Ruby Nightmare Strike, and Disrupting Blow known.

You have 4 readied, you'll probably have Disrupting Blow, Ruby Nightmare Strike, Insightful Strike, and Mithril Tornado readied ay any given time, possible swapping out IS for Emerald Razor and MT for MoPM, depending on what you think you'll fight.

As far as gear, get:
+1 Adamantine Iron Heart Glaive (11000g + change)
+1 Mithril Deathward(MIC) Breastplate (8500g)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9000g)
Anklets of Translocation (1400g, MIC)
+2 Str Belt (4000g)
+2 Con Neck (4000g)
Scout's Headband (3400g, MIC)
Lesser Revelation Crystal (1000g, MIC)
Third Eye: Clarity (3000g, MIC)
Tunic of Steadfast Concentration (2500g, MIC)

That leaves you with ~5000 worth of other misc gear. That covers most of your basic defensive and offensive requirements while giving you the biggest bang for your buck. You might consider picking up an extra Scout's Headband and Anklets of Translocation and swapping them out between encounters as needed. A 2nd Third Eye would also be good. Otherwise save the jink for a better +Str and +Con item and more enchants for your weapon and armor.

This build sounds excellent!
The gear might be a problem, though.
First: What's the Iorn Heart property do?
As for the armor, I'll probably use a reinforced (from Dungeon Magazine, a masterwork property our DM lets us use,) mithral chain shirt as the base, it's cheeper and gives the same AC and no armor check penalty.

Also, I HAVE to be a good trapmonkey, so competence items of search and disable device are a must, preferably at +10 each. (Those will take up my eye and hand slots, respectively [my DM has already approved them,] though concievably I could switch them out as needed.)

[Keld Denar]

As long as you are in an Iron Heart stance or initiating an Iron Heart Strike, you get a +3 to hit with that weapon. You only get it once, so if you are both in an IH Stance and using an IH Strike, you'd still only get +3. Since both of your stances are IH, you'll pretty much always get the bonus. Its better than a straight enhancement bonus, especially with PA.

I forgot one other good item. Armbands of Might are pretty useful. +2 on all Str checks and +2 damage when you PA for at least 2. That means you can PA for 2 and get +6 damage, which is pretty nice. You can spend some of the cash you save on that.

[Chilingsworth]

As long as you are in an Iron Heart stance or initiating an Iron Heart Strike, you get a +3 to hit with that weapon. You only get it once, so if you are both in an IH Stance and using an IH Strike, you'd still only get +3. Since both of your stances are IH, you'll pretty much always get the bonus. Its better than a straight enhancement bonus, especially with PA.

I forgot one other good item. Armbands of Might are pretty useful. +2 on all Str checks and +2 damage when you PA for at least 2. That means you can PA for 2 and get +6 damage, which is pretty nice. You can spend some of the cash you save on that.

Ok, The Iron Heart property sounds useful, it's in tome of battle, right? Where is Armbands of Might, and how much do they cost?

[Keld Denar]

Yea, its called a "Discipline" weapon. You key it to a specific discipline, and when you use that discipline, you get the bonus. You want yours keyed to Iron Heart, since all of your stances are Iron Heart. Its a +1 equiv that gives you +3 to hit. An additional +1 on the weapon gives you +1 hit and +1 damage. If you PA for 1 point, the Iron Heart weapon gives you +2 to hit and +2 damage, or if you PA for 2, gives you +1 hit and +4 damage. Much better investment than a +1 enhancement bonus in most cases.

Armbands of Might are indeed in the MIC.

[Chilingsworth]

Ok, My character is coming together!

Sadly, I have to modify Keld's build severely to fulfill my primary role as trapmonkey

Name: Ackbar Satalqa-Uhbula al Keld al Harran al Thune
Commonly called "Satalqa"

LN Human Rogue 2/Warblade 8

Abilities (including magical bonuses):
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 8
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +13, Will +5
+1 to saves vs poison, spells, and spell-like abilities (on top of the listed values.)
AC: 18, Touch 12, Flat Footed 18
Special Defenses: Improved Uncanny Dodge (as 10th level rogue), Evasion

Attack: +14 (+1 Adamantine Glaive) 1d10+7
Full Attack: +14/+9 (+1 Adamantine Glaive) 1d10+7
Attack Options: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Maneuvers

Gear (current):

Belt of Dwarvenkind: 14,900 gp (I'll mostly be dealing with stonework tombs, so the stonecutting feature is just too good to pass up!)
Vest of Concentration +3 w/ Resistance +2: 4,900 gp

Gloves of Disable Device +8: 6,400 gp
Lenses of Search +9: 8,100 gp
Heward's Handy Haversack: 2,000 gp
Necklace of Adaptation: 9,000 gp
+1 reinforced Cooling Mithral Chainshirt: 5,300 gp
w/ Mw Armor Spikes: 350 gp
+1 Adamantine Glaive: 5,008 gp
Anklet of Translocation: 1,400gp
Armbands of Might: 4,100gp
Unslotted Standard version of a Healer's Belt: 750 gp
w/+2 Str and +2 Con
Rod of Vscid Orbs: 2,000 gp
Continual Flame Ioun Stone (dull grey ioun stone with continual flame cast on it): 135 gp
Mw Thief's Tools: 100 gp
Mw Trap Crafting Tools: 55 gp

Expendibles (Mandated by DM that we spend money on such items, I otherwise would be very unlikely to do so):

10 Potions of Cure Light Wounds: 500 gp
5 1000 gp Diamonds: 4,000 gp
9 100 gp aliquots of diamond dust: 600 gp
5 lbs of salt (RP reasons): 25 gp
30 Daggers (RP reasons and daggers can come in handy): 60 gp
12 pp
11 gp
9 sp
10 cp

Skills: (In addition to the modifiers listed below, I get +4 to charisma checks when dealing with dwarves, +2 when dealing with halflings or gnomes, -2 to all others. I also get applicable dwarven stonecutting bonuses.)
Appraise+4, Balance+9, Bluff+4, Climb+4, Concentration+19, Craft (trapmaking)+19, Diplomacy+3, Disable Device+35, Disguise-1, Escape Artist +3, Forgery+4, Gather Information-1, Heal+2, Hide+2, Intimidate+1, Jump+23, Knowledges: [Architecture/Engineering+9, Dungeoneering+9, Geography (Desert Kingdoms)+7, History(Southern Continent)+7, Martial Lore+14, Mysticism+5, Religion+9] Listen+0, Move Silently+2, Open Lock+8, Perform-1, Ride+2, Search+27, Sense Motive+5, Slight of Hand+10 Spot+10, Survival+0, Swim+2, Tumble+17, Use Rope+2

Feats: Power Attack, Able Learner, Craven, Shape Soulmeld (Theft Gloves), Heat Endurance, Bonus Essentia, Second Wind, Combat Reflexes, Staggering Strike

Maneuvers: I'd like to work in White Raven Tactics somehow. I'm not sure if I should get it via feat, just taking it as a known maneuver, or a combination of the two. Or, I suppose I could sacrifice the Necklace of Adaptation, use 3,000 gp to get a novice White Raven Crown, then use the other 6,000gp to further improve my skill items. I'm kind of hesitant to do this, as my DM seems to enjoy using cloudkill and similiar nasty things on us. Problem Solved, Thanks Keld!
Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Insightful Strike, White Raven Tactics, Mithril Tornado, Ruby Nightmare Strike, and Disrupting Blow

Well, these are the fairly solid elements of the character so far. That's Prettymuch the character! Any further critique is quite welcome!

Also, please don't be disgruntled, Keld! Sorry I can't use the build you offered as is. :smallfrown: If our original trapmonkey was better built, I could have!

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, you want WRT....

Maneuvers

{table=head]Level|Class|IL|Gain|Lose|Stance
1|Rogue1|0|
2|Rogue2|1|
3|Warblade1|2|Moment of Perfect Mind, Wolf Fang Strike, Steel Wind||Punishing Stance
4|Warblade2|3|Emerald Razor||
5|Warblade3|4|Tactical Strike||
6|Warblade4|5|White Raven Tactics|Tactical Strike|Absolute Steel Stance
7|Warblade5|6|Insightful Strike||
8|Warblade6|7|Mithril Tornado|Steel Wind|
9|Warbadel79|8|Ruby Nightmare Strike||
10|Warblade8|9|Disrupting Blow|Wolf Fang Strike|
[/table]
That leaves you with Moment of Perfect Mind, Emerald Razor, Insightful Strike, White Raven Tactics, Mithril Tornado, Ruby Nightmare Strike, and Disrupting Blow known. I took out Mountain Hammer, as you have an Adamantine weapon which should serve just as well in most cases, with Insightful Strike functioning in the others.

You have 4 readied, you'll probably have Disrupting Blow, Ruby Nightmare Strike, Insightful Strike, and White Raven Tactics readied ay any given time.

Better?

As far as gear...I think you are leaving yourself too vulnerable. 10th level is dangerous, for more reasons than just traps. You're likely to get killed in combat after you disarm your first couple traps. I'd seriously look into improving your survivability. You don't really need the Haversack, as your Str is high enough. Necklace of Adaption is...kinda overrated, IMO, and not worth 9000g which could better go to other gear. You have no True Sight or See Invis, which could be lethal. Also, Belt of Dwarvenkind is WAY overpriced. If you were 11th or 12th level, it might be a worthwhile fraction of your gear, but as it stands at 10th, its just not worth it in my opinion. You'd be better off getting +2 Str, +2 Con, +2 saves and STILL having 3000g left over, all for a +2 on search checks on stone. Blech!

[Chilingsworth]

Ok, Thak You, Keld!

Equipment list changed, feats added!

[Chilingsworth]

Staggering Strike doesn't appear on the giant list of my DM's approved feats. It may be an accidental omission, but if it isn't, any ideas for an alternate feat?

[Keld Denar]

I'd check on its legality. It really is awesome. Basically, any time you get SA damage and so ~30-40 damage, the person you hit is denied from making anything more than a standard action.

Um, if you can't take that, I'll have to do some thinking. That would be about the best feat at that point without building toward something else, though. You could simply opt for something simple like Improved Toughness? That would give you +10 HP, which is the same as +2 Con would give you, minus the +1 Fort save. Thats still pretty decent.

[Chilingsworth]

I'd check on its legality. It really is awesome. Basically, any time you get SA damage and so ~30-40 damage, the person you hit is denied from making anything more than a standard action.

Um, if you can't take that, I'll have to do some thinking. That would be about the best feat at that point without building toward something else, though. You could simply opt for something simple like Improved Toughness? That would give you +10 HP, which is the same as +2 Con would give you, minus the +1 Fort save. Thats still pretty decent.

I know Staggering Strike is an awesome feat! I assure you, I want it! I'm just making sure I have a back-up plan incase I can't have it, is all.

Another thing I just noticed: Mithril Tornado only affects adjacent foes. Doesn't that mean I'll wont be able to hit them using my primary weapon? Should I change my weapon to, a scythe, say? Or maybe replace MT with Iron Heart Surge?

Also, on the subject of weapons: Would it be worth it to drop the Adamantine and maybe the Anklet of Translocation and a point in my disable device skill item to give my weapon the Iron Heart Discipline property?

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, my bad about Mithril Tornado. The wording on it is stupid, as even things with natural reach (like large creatures) wouldn't benefit from it. Might be worthwhile to look at something else, or just leave it at Steel Wind (which doesn't have that stupid restriction). Bounding Assault would be a good replacement for it...its a kind of spring attack charge, which works out well with Absolute Steel Stance.

As for your gear...adamantine weapons are REALLY useful. A) They are rather difficult to sunder, if your DM is that kind of mean, B) They overcome one of the most annoying DRs. Golems are hurt by very little, so being the one able to punch through it efficiently is important, and C) They overcome ALL hardness less than 20. Thats like, every material ever printed outside of adamantine itself and a couple of REALLY rare metals printed in rather rare sourcebooks. Door? Gone. Wall? Gone. Bars? Gone. Bridge? Gone. Combine with Power Attack and you can literally scythe through any substance. If you can't figure out how that's useful, you need to keep thinking. Sometimes the best way to disable a device or pick a lock is the proper application of adamantine and force.

Also, Anklets of Translocation I think win the prize for being the single most useful item for under 2000g. They should be worth 4 times what they are worth because they are so dang useful. Keep them. You won't regret it.

[Chilingsworth]

Hmm... I think I'll take Steel Wind.

Some questions: Do both the attacks I take with this maneuver have to be with the same weapon? i.e., If I had reason to, could I pop one target with my glaive, and the other (closer) one with my armor spikes?
If they do have to both use the same weapon, could I take a 5-foot step between making them? i.e., pop one target with my first attack, then 5-foot step away to hit a target that was previously adjacent to me, both with my glaive? This would of course assume I hadn't previously moved during the round, as that would prevent my taking a 5-foot step.

If I can't convince my DM to let me take the staggering strike feat, I might take the Iron Heart Surge maneuver and the extra readied maneuver feat so I can afford to prepare it instead.

[Escheton]

Steel wind is the one that gives 2 attacks as a standard action right?

That one is best on low lvl knockdown build. At lvl 10 you are prolly better off just full attacking and using the maneuver for a tactical maneuver.
Such as one that gives you a free(AoO-less) dash across the field such as Charging Minotaur.

[Chilingsworth]

Steel wind is the one that gives 2 attacks as a standard action right?

That one is best on low lvl knockdown build. At lvl 10 you are prolly better off just full attacking and using the maneuver for a tactical maneuver.
Such as one that gives you a free(AoO-less) dash across the field such as Charging Minotaur.

Hmm, is Bounding Assault AoO-free, too?