How would you calculate the Starting gold for a level 65 character?

[Sims]

Just out of curiosity. I'm not gonna sick this on my team, just for my own amusement.

[Erik von Nein]

I wouldn't. Just give him whatever you care to. I mean, dang.

[Draz74]

Plot the WBL for levels 1-40, then have Excel or Maple calculate a best-fit exponential function for the data and extrapolate.

[Combat Reflexes]

Very easy. Write down an 8 on a piece of paper and turn it 90 degrees left.

[nedz]

PC or NPC ?

[Ozreth]

Why does everything have to be close to RAW with something so ridiculous ha. Just give him whatever you want.

[Yora]

Nothing against your attempt to honestly answer a question.

But this simple line really sums up the rediculousness of how D&D has rules for everything. :smallbiggrin:

PC or NPC ?

[Kobold-Bard]

If you're Level 65 and still worried about gold, you're doing it wrong.

[McSmack]

I'd just give them 1000g and tell them not to spend it all in one place. But then, I'm a jerk.
theoretically at that point you could have just about anything you wanted without too much trouble, though if you really wanted to know you could do some fancy graph work and figure it out by plotting the best fit line using the WBL from the Epic Level Handbook.

[Worira]

If it's on the Material Plane, you can buy it.

[nedz]

Nothing against your attempt to honestly answer a question.

But this simple line really sums up the rediculousness of how D&D has rules for everything. :smallbiggrin:

I was being ironic :smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

If it's the Material Plane, you can buy it.
FTFY (I have to enter 10 chars apparantly)

[valadil]

Hypothetically speaking, I'd give him the sum of the prices of all the items in the DMG and whatever splatbooks were available, plus a couple tens of million for spending cash. Realistically speaking I wouldn't play that. He's epic 3 times over, and I find level 20 to be unplayable.

[Yora]

Now I'm curious.

This is the internet, everything that nerds ever made can be found here.
And dicefreaks seems to have the answer:

PC wealth ends at level 50 (at 33,660,000 gp) but for NPCs level 65 means 15,990,000.
Someone at enworld came up with 62,200,000 at level 60. So I'd guess about 90 million gp for 65th.

[Ozreth]

Nothing against your attempt to honestly answer a question.

But this simple line really sums up the rediculousness of how D&D has rules for everything. :smallbiggrin:

Only 3rd edition ha. 3.5 more particularly.

[Caliphbubba]

this is the most expanded wealth by leve chart I've found: (from dicefreaks I think)

PC Wealth by Level
01 - 100
02 - 900
03 - 2,700
04 - 5,400
05 - 9,000
06 - 13,000
07 - 19,000
08 - 27,000
09 - 36,000
10 - 49,000
11 - 66,000
12 - 88,000
13 - 110,000
14 - 150,000
15 - 200,000
16 - 260,000
17 - 340,000
18 - 440,000
19 - 580,000
20 - 760,000
21 - 975,000
22 - 1,200,000
23 - 1,500,000
24 - 1,800,000
25 - 2,100,000
26 - 2,500,000
27 - 2,900,000
28 - 3,300,000
29 - 3,800,000
30 - 4,300,000
31 - 4,900,000
32 - 5,600,000
33 - 6,300,000
34 - 7,000,000
35 - 7,900,000
36 - 8,800,000
37 - 9,900,000
38 - 11,000,000
39 - 12,300,000
40 - 13,600,000
41 - 15,100,000
42 - 16,800,000
43 - 18,600,000
44 - 20,600,000
45 - 20,900,000
46 - 22,290,000
47 - 25,289,000
48 - 27,818,000
49 - 30,600,000
50 - 33,660,000

[nedz]

Wow 45th is a bit of a dead level.

[Echoes]

A regression analysis of wealth by level gained from levels 1-40 suggests that the 'formula' would be: W = 41.76L^3.3276, where W = wealth and L = level. However, be warned that this will be increasingly inaccurate the higher you go, being slightly on the low side.

The other way to do it is by pattern matching. The last 8 levels on the official table have an easy set pattern: Add the same amount as was gained the previous level, plus an additional 200,000 if the number of the level they are gaining is odd. I'm too lazy to write the formula out for that, but it should be easy enough to follow that up to 60 if you would prefer.

[Re'ozul]

From the list that was posted, the last few dozen levels seem to go simply exponential via x1.1, so 65 should be 140,600,000gp

[Mordar]

Very easy. Write down an 8 on a piece of paper and turn it 90 degrees left.

Why do you people always get this wrong?!? You turn it 90 degrees *right*, or 270 degrees left. Sheesh, where's the quality control gone?

:smallbiggrin:

[manyslayer]

Just give him Vow of Poverty and don't worry about it.

[The_Jackal]

Money stops having meaning at level 17, honestly. Wish is pretty abusive.

[Cartigan]

I think there is a magic vault in Pathfinder where 1 of everything ever made is kept by one of the deities. They get that.

[Jarawara]

Q: How much gold would a 65th level character have?

A: All of it.

[Kobold-Bard]

Q: How much gold would a 65th level character have?

A: All of it.

Ok, I'll bite:

What if there's two of them?

[Siosilvar]

Ok, I'll bite:

What if there's two of them?

They both have all of it. Don't think too hard about that one.

[aquaticrna]

The question is, do you have enough gold for a continuous item of every spell?

[Havelock]

There's no catch all formula like it is for XP needed for new level. My guess is that they derived it from treasure tables or, more likely, decided what sort of bonuses they expected each PC to have from magic bonuses if they went with some sort of "standard array", then basing WBL on the costs of those things. Then adjusting treasure tables.

My take? If you have that many levels, you are a God, you no longer care about mundane things such as your own wealth and treasure.

[Prime32]

My take? If you have that many levels, you are a God, you no longer care about mundane things such as your own wealth and treasure.No, gods are lv30. You are 185,363.8 times more powerful than a god.
(217.5, each +2CR = doubling in threat)

[Ravens_cry]

They both have all of it. Don't think too hard about that one.
Yeah, infinity is funky like that.

[Sims]

Haha everyone made it pretty clear it would be irrelevent. See, the whole basis of this character is he had all this power, but chose not to become a God. Hes just a human.

[tyckspoon]

Haha everyone made it pretty clear it would be irrelevent. See, the whole basis of this character is he had all this power, but chose not to become a God. Hes just a human.

Doesn't really matter. Powerwise, you're at *least* hanging with the deities, and that's if you made really poor build choices. The only practical difference between a character with that many levels and that much wealth and a god is that the character doesn't grant spells to people who worship him.

[slaydemons]

i'm pretty sure by that level its a well known fact that your a greater deity, so I would say at leas 50 trillion but you pretty much have your own plane of existance by blinking why does it matter?

[Kobold-Bard]

i'm pretty sure by that level its a well known fact that your a greater deity, so I would say at leas 50 trillion but you pretty much have your own plane of existance by blinking why does it matter?

Could be a Samurai 20/Truenamer 20/Healer 25.

Doesn't sound like a Greater Deity to me, joke Deities of Sucking probably don't get past Demigod.

[Fineous Orlon]

Re: How would you calculate the Starting gold for a level 65 character?

... with Watson, of Jeopardy fame?

[Fineous Orlon]

This character idea reminds me for some reason of Tom Bombadil.

Marry the beautiful riverwoman's daughter and live forever, mastering all you care to encounter.

[Bobikus]

Does gold even matter when you're anywhere close to that anyway? I mean, as soon as you could planar travel freely you could go to the 6th level of Celestia and gather as many gems as you have a way to carry with you.

[Mastikator]

The entire material plane, plus a few others planes of existences.

Maybe also a few major gods as personal slaves.

[Echoes]

i'm pretty sure by that level its a well known fact that your a greater deity, so I would say at leas 50 trillion but you pretty much have your own plane of existance by blinking why does it matter?

Actually, I'm not entirely sure that this is the case. If you use the rules in Deities and Demigods, rank of divinity is a measure completely separate from level, complete with its own progression features (called 'salient divine abilities'). The book says that gods are usually base 20HD outsiders with an additional 30-50 class levels, but there's nothing in the book saying that you couldn't have a level 1 human bard with 20 divine ranks. Now, an epic level 65th character might have power equivalent to a greater deity, but such a character would still be missing important divine features like portfolios and salient divine abilities.

[Havelock]

No, gods are lv30. You are 185,363.8 times more powerful than a god.
(217.5, each +2CR = doubling in threat)

They tend to have something like 40 though, and divine rank counts for a lot.

[zenon]

You use an expotential function.

[Tyndmyr]

Just out of curiosity. I'm not gonna sick this on my team, just for my own amusement.

Honestly, at that point, WBL really isn't working. After all, how much wealth exists in this setting? It's entirely possible that this guy has it. All of it.

Unless it's a setting filled with level 65 people, which only brings up more questions.

If for some reason I ever DMed a campaign that got to such a level...though I find this unlikely...I would likely base NPC WBL off PC WBL proportionately.

[Gullintanni]

At this point, using a simple epic spell, you can create 20 cubic feet of platinum (technically the same spell could be used to create diamond or any other mundane material of your choosing, but platinum is easy to price by volume in DnD) at a time, permanently. If I recall correctly, the last time I did the math in DnD world, this amounts to about 14 million Gp/casting. As someone in the mid level 20's you can do this IIRC about 3 times/day.

WBL doesn't matter anymore. Even if you assume a finite amount of monetary wealth in the game, and assuming you have ALL of it, if that's not enough you can make more.

[mootoall]

Ok, I'll bite: What if there's two of them? There can be only one.

[Draz74]

There can be only one.

"This multiverse ain't big enough fer the two of ... our bank accounts."

[RS14]

The best fit exponential (to non-epic WBL) is

f(x)=e8.11+0.272x,

or in this case, approximately

1.58*1011gp.

[Chess435]

The best fit exponential (to non-epic WBL) is

f(x)=e8.11+0.272x,

or in this case, approximately

1.58*1011gp.

You know you're game's gone crazy when you start expressing things in scientific notation...

[ericgrau]

Plot the WBL for levels 1-40, then have Excel or Maple calculate a best-fit exponential function for the data and extrapolate.

I've done this before but I couldn't find it. IIRC you have to start at level 21 or maybe 11 to get a nice curve fit, otherwise it's off by a little. And it's quadratic not exponential, cubic IIRC, putting RS14's estimate way over. It's best to test any equation you come up with by graphing it alongside existing data to make sure it's a good fit.

[RS14]

I've done this before but I couldn't find it. IIRC you have to start at level 21 or maybe 11 to get a nice curve fit, otherwise it's off by a little. And it's quadratic not exponential, cubic IIRC, putting RS14's estimate way over. It's best to test any equation you come up with by graphing it alongside existing data to make sure it's a good fit.

I don't have access to the ELH, so when I did this before, I used only the 1-20 WBL. However, the exponential gives a very good fit over this range.


The image below shows wealth by the table in blue dots, the best fit exponential (e8.11 + 0.272 x) in blue, the best fit quadratic in red (99700 - 41800 x + 3460 x2), and the above formula in yellow.


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/RS14_photo/wealth.png

Note that there is some obvious error at very low levels, but it is otherwise very good.

Edit: Note that this is totally inconsistent with the table Caliphbubba posted, which obviously grows quite a bit slower beyond level 20. If this is consistent with WotC's statements as to epic WBL, then it is probably best to treat it as a piecewise function and fit the pre and post epic components separately.

[JaronK]

Could be a Samurai 20/Truenamer 20/Healer 25.

Doesn't sound like a Greater Deity to me, joke Deities of Sucking probably don't get past Demigod.

You do realize that guy can Gate in Solars at will and use Epic Spellcasting, right? That's still going to be plenty to dominate just about anything.

JaronK

[Kobold-Bard]

You do realize that guy can Gate in Solars at will and use Epic Spellcasting, right? That's still going to be plenty to dominate just about anything.

JaronK

NO HE CAN'T!!

[FishAreWet]

{scrubbed} This is a very good question to ask if you're playing a game with level 65 characters. Epic items are expensive, +30 enhancement item will probably cost a good chunk of the WBL.

[OracleofWuffing]

There can be only one.
Wait a second... This line of logic means that if there were no level 65 characters, all of the starting wealth would be divided by zero so- uh-oh...

[Lord Vampyre]

Based upon a polynomial curve similar to: f(x) = 0.0162x^6-2.2875x^5+126.26x^4-2966x^3+34082x^2-164378x+220923. This gives you a WBL value of 140,436,189 gp by level 65.

The higher the polynomial equation the better it will fit to the existing values.

[Tyndmyr]

{Scrubbed}This is a very good question to ask if you're playing a game with level 65 characters. Epic items are expensive, +30 enhancement item will probably cost a good chunk of the WBL.

No, not really.

First off, the game doesn't really work at 65. Im already an exception in that I believe the first few levels of epic are somewhat playable with a mature group. However, as you get into epic levels, you have the horrifically imbalanced epic feats. You have the increasingly ludicrous discrepancy between tiers. You run out of reasonable things to fight(as the CR climbs, the number of monsters printed decreases. A lot).

I would say epic certainly stops being playable by any means whatsoever before level 30. You definitely won't have anything meaningful at level 65. Besides, have you ever tried to DO a level 65 build? Painful.

As the level of the epic game climbs, D&D approaches freeform, because literally anything is possible. "I create a world made out of money" is entirely reasonable.

[Chess435]

*snip*

You just gave me an idea: Why don't we rewrite and rebalance epic?

[FishAreWet]

. You run out of reasonable things to fight(as the CR climbs, the number of monsters printed decreases. A lot).

I would say epic certainly stops being playable by any means whatsoever before level 30. You definitely won't have anything meaningful at level 65. Besides, have you ever tried to DO a level 65 build? Painful.
You don't know how to play in the same tier, advance monsters and you dislike paperwork. Therefore, other people who want to play ECL 65 should expect non-answers to questions?

Yes, wealth loops are possible at level 65. They're also possible at level 1. It's equally stupid to just say "YOU HAVE INFINITE MONEY" in both cases.

[sreservoir]

oi, +30 enhancement is only roughly 9,000,000. 8,676,000, actually. six only cost 52,056,000.

+58 barely fits into level 50 wbl at 33,316,000.

even +100 is only 99,676,000.

but really, if you need abilities that badly that far into epic, you're Doing It Wrong™. (just make yourself a wis-sad build, inflate your caster level, and cast an extended persisted owl's insight!)

[Essence_of_War]

Based upon a polynomial curve similar to: f(x) = 0.0162x^6-2.2875x^5+126.26x^4-2966x^3+34082x^2-164378x+220923. This gives you a WBL value of 140,436,189 gp by level 65.

The higher the polynomial equation the better it will fit to the existing values.

Don't read too much into this though. One can always get perfect agreement for 2 data points with a line, 3 pts with a parabola, 4pts .......

So yeah, with a 40th degree polynomial, you'll fit the 40 levels in the Epic Handbook perfectly, but you'll have picked up all sorts of other crazy behavior that is not intended to be there.