Dragonborn? Who needs Dragon Shaman ever?

[Warsmurf]

I was just wondering if I was reading right that Dragonborn characters have no level adjustment at all unless their base race does.

It just seems crazy that a character without a level adjustment would get a breath weapon that scales usable once every 1d4 rounds. Granted that it doesn't make them the most powerful thing ever but...

I stumbled across it looking for races for a wizard I am making and it just seemed super optimized (my DM would probably shoot me if I tried to take it)

Am I wrong?

[CubeB]

I was just wondering if I was reading right that Dragonborn characters have no level adjustment at all unless their base race does.

It just seems crazy that a character without a level adjustment would get a breath weapon that scales usable once every 1d4 rounds. Granted that it doesn't make them the most powerful thing ever but...

I stumbled across it looking for races for a wizard I am making and it just seemed super optimized (my DM would probably shoot me if I tried to take it)

Am I wrong?

The thing about Dragonborn is that they give up their existing racial features in exchange for their new draconic ones. The only ones they keep are modes of movement, ability modifiers, and subtype.

This means that you have to be -very- careful as to which base race you select.

Otherwise they're a very popular template. And as a fun fact, you can even apply it to Warforged. They keep the living construct type, so they keep their immunities. That's mondo-cheese though.

[nedz]

Who needs Dragon Shaman ever?

Its a good, hard, but ultimately futile, challange for your optimising skills.
In the way that Dragonborn isn't :smallsmile:

[MammonAzrael]

Yes, Dragonborn is a good template. However, you're over estimating things. at 10th level you have a breath weapon you can use every 1d4 rounds that deals a whopping 4d8 damage. And the is pretty much your only racial feature. When you apply the Dragonborn template, you lose essentially all abilities from your previous race except stat adjustments, including things like bonus feats.

The human bonus feat is generally more powerful. The breath weapon is only worth mentioning if you use shenanigans like metabreath feats. The wings are generally the best choice for a dragonborn, IMO.

[Amnestic]

Dragon Shaman is kinda weak, especially with the Dragonfire Adept being all awesome up in this place :smallamused:

[Keld Denar]

I'm partial to the senses aspect. Any class can use Darkvision, and its a great source of non-magical blindsense that comes into play around the time you really really really need it. Non-magical flight is good for PvP type environments when everyone is running around with AMFs running, but I definitely believe that the senses is generally a more solid buy.

Dragonborn Grey Elf is a pretty solid game though. -2 Str, +2 Int is pretty ideal for a wizard. The -2 Dex cancels out the elven +2 Dex, and the +2 Con from Dragonborn cancels the elven -2 Con. That just leaves you with the -2 Str and the +2 Int, a pretty solid combo. And you are still an elf, so you qualify for the Elven Wizard racial subs which combo well with domain wizard for even more slots!

[Essence_of_War]

DFA kind of makes the Dragon Shaman look terrible.

I generally shy away from the breath weapon with the Dragonborn though. Unless you're trying to do the metabreath game plan with the DFA, it is probably better to just go with the wings or the to nab Ex flight, or the heart to get blindsense.

[JaronK]

I've actually found that the vision and wings aspects are much better. Wings gives free flight and eventually gives you double charge damage (which is AWESOME) and the senses version eventually gives Blindsense and then Blindsight.

The breath weapon is only good if you really optimize it, though it is possible to get it quickened.

As for races to use... Water Orc is the obvious one. Their only racial abilities that you lose are penalties, and you keep the swimming ability. Plus, +4 Str and Con with no LA is quite nice (though you do get a -2 to everything else), and you still have access to Headlong Rush, which works great with Diving Charge.

JaronK

[Necroticplague]

Where do find dragonborn? If it has this much cheese, it must be useful in small quantities. Besides, if nothing else, entangling exhalation is good.

[MammonAzrael]

Dragonborn is good, but it is certainly not cheese. It can be found in Races of the Dragon.

[The Cat Goddess]

Where do find dragonborn? If it has this much cheese, it must be useful in small quantities. Besides, if nothing else, entangling exhalation is good.

Races of the Dragon sourcebook.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Races of the Dragon

edit: swordsage'd:smallannoyed:

[Vknight]

Races of Dragon just cause I can.

They don't have much chesse but there still very cheesy.

[Prime32]

It just seems crazy that a character without a level adjustment would get a breath weapon that scales usable once every 1d4 rounds. Granted that it doesn't make them the most powerful thing ever but..."That scales" shouldn't be a problem. As an example:

An ability that deals 1d6 damage at lv1 is mediocre. An ability that deals 1d6 damage at lv20 is so bad that it's practically healing your enemies; you might as well not have it.

Let's say you're a wizard. If you have a non-scaling LA +1 template at low levels then it might cut you out of access to 2nd-level spells. Which could conceivably be worth it. If you're high-level then your same LA +1 template is making you give up 9th-level spells that can rewrite reality in exchange for weak powers you can't use.

Scaling should be the default assumption. Unfortunately, the designers don't bother to include it all the time - most creatures with powerful abilities have PC playability added as an afterthought.