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Yora
2011-03-08, 09:12 AM
Simple question, complicated issue:

How do you select spells for a spontaneous caster in an E6 game?

I guess one simple answer would be to take as many Extra Spell feats and Metamagic feats as you can. But even then the number of spells you know is still ver limited. At 6th level you have one 3rd level spell, two 2nd level spells, and four 1st level spells (unless you're bard and have even less).
Wands are often used to help spontaneous casters, but in most E6 games having more than 2 or three of those would be out of place.

While I played a lot of low level games, I never did so with a full caster character. There are of course many ways how you can build a caster, but how should one approach the selection of the right spells, so one does not end up with only being able to cast fireballs and protection from evil on the entire party?

All input is appreciated.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 10:46 AM
I'd aim for a decent +1 Metamagic. Sculpted Glitterdust is worth a 3rd level slot.

Custom Runestaves (MIC) are surprisingly inexpensive. Eternal Wands can handle utility fairly well.

I'd try to convince my DM that in E6, wands should come also in 10 and 25 charges.

Other than that, I'm looking for spells with lots of versatility: Alter Self, X Image; or that are always useful: Haste, Slow.

Edit: I forgot to say that by boosting spell level can net you extra 3rd level spells from extra spell.

Ernir
2011-03-08, 10:49 AM
I imagine E6 spell selection on limited-spells-known characters is just the same as in "regular" D&D - only this time there's less margin for error. You're still just trying to get the most versatile spells you can.

That being said, I think E6 completely screws Sorcerer-types over. =/

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-08, 10:51 AM
1. Get a Runestaff (MIC).
2. Take Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), put any spells you want into the Runestaff.
3. ???
4. Profit.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-08, 11:01 AM
The big flaw with playing a spont spellcaster in E6 is that you cannot spare any caster levels at all. Prepared casters can spare one.

This basically means PrC means of getting additional spells known are all not going to happen. You just don't have the levels. This leaves you with gear and feats. While feats are theoretically a commodity of which you have many...if you spend your feats on spells known, while the wizard scribes them for nominal cost and uses his feats for more power...he's probably ahead of you. So don't get carried away with Extra Spell.

Knowstones are good. Inexpensive items such as Gloves of the Starry Sky(MiC), and the rest of that set are good. Don't have to know those spells to swap out for them. Hand of the mage is a classic. Pad with eternal wands wherever possible.

Gullintanni
2011-03-08, 11:53 AM
I imagine E6 spell selection on limited-spells-known characters is just the same as in "regular" D&D - only this time there's less margin for error. You're still just trying to get the most versatile spells you can.

That being said, I think E6 completely screws Sorcerer-types over. =/


The big flaw with playing a spont spellcaster in E6 is that you cannot spare any caster levels at all. Prepared casters can spare one.

The easy way around this is to skip 5th level of the spells known/spells per day tables on the Sorcerer progression. This lets them drop a caster level, and they're still casting as a 6th level sorcerer. Technically they'd be casting as a level 7 sorcerer with 6 levels in the class, but still only with a caster level of 6.

It's a simple adaptation for Sorcerers in E6. Not sure it makes up for having so few spells known regardless, but that's a problem that requires more than just a sorcerer fix.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 12:12 PM
1. Get a Runestaff (MIC).
2. Take Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), put any spells you want into the Runestaff.
3. ???
4. Profit.

IIRC, Craft Staff is a feat that requires a caster level of 12 to take. I'm not up to speed on all the CL boosts out there, but I would think that this might make Runestaffs hard to come by, if not unavailable altogether, in an E6 world.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-08, 12:33 PM
IIRC, Craft Staff is a feat that requires a caster level of 12 to take. I'm not up to speed on all the CL boosts out there, but I would think that this might make Runestaffs hard to come by, if not unavailable altogether, in an E6 world.

So it could start out as another type of item, such as a +1 Quarterstaff, then be upgraded to a runestaff:


Improving An Item Familiar

An item familiar can be improved as other magic items can be. By spending gold pieces (and time and experience points, assuming the character is the one doing the work), a character can add new abilities to his item familiar. If a character links himself to a +1 longsword, for example, it only costs 6,000 gp (or 3,000 gp and 240 XP) to add another +1 of enhancement bonus or, perhaps, a special ability that is equivalent to a +1 bonus (such as spell storing or flaming). The character can accomplish this even without having the requisite item creation feats.

This type of improvement has nothing to do with the master’s character level, though it may affect the item’s eventual Ego score.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 12:46 PM
So it could start out as another type of item, such as a +1 Quarterstaff, then be upgraded to a runestaff:

Neat. We don't use the Item Familiar variant rule that much, so I've never noticed that line before.

Would you say that it applies in this case, though? You are more or less switching magic item "types" when you take a weapon and change it into a staff (or a wand or wonderous item if we were to switch examples), and I'm not sure that would count as a "simple upgrade". Does a ruling defining what an "upgrade" can accomplish exist? :smallconfused:

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-08, 01:02 PM
There are already plenty of magical staffs which also function as magical weapons. Adding a magical +1 weapon enhancement to an existing runestaff should be within the realm of possibility, so why not turn a +1 staff into a runestaff as well?

Yora
2011-03-08, 01:06 PM
Thanks for the replies.

But what spells to select?

Erom
2011-03-08, 01:15 PM
Wow, that ruling has kind of a cool effect on the world.

Given that:
(A) Runestaffs are super useful
(B) The only practical way in an E6 world to make a runestaff is to have it as your item familiar

You end up with the situation where a lot of spellcasters have a special staff that is important and bound to them. That's really flavorful, and in line with a lot of fantasy. Do item familiars lose their potency when the user dies? If not, then a good source of powerful artifacts in the world would probably be the staffs left behind by powerful spellcasters.

Draz74
2011-03-08, 01:19 PM
But even then the number of spells you know is still ver limited. At 6th level you have one 3rd level spell, two 2nd level spells, and four 1st level spells (unless you're bard and have even less).

That's 7 cool different things a Sorcerer can do, not counting cantrips or metamagics. The real question is, would that feel like too few if it weren't having to compete with the Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Psion/Beguiler? I happen to think it's actually a pretty decent array of options already.

Tome of Battle classes are considered very strong in E6, and the Warblade and Crusader end up with 8 and 9 "tricks" ... no Wands, either. The Ardent ties with the Sorcerer at 7 "tricks," no cantrips though.

Yora
2011-03-08, 01:26 PM
Wow, that ruling has kind of a cool effect on the world.

Given that:
(A) Runestaffs are super useful
(B) The only practical way in an E6 world to make a runestaff is to have it as your item familiar

You end up with the situation where a lot of spellcasters have a special staff that is important and bound to them. That's really flavorful, and in line with a lot of fantasy. Do item familiars lose their potency when the user dies? If not, then a good source of powerful artifacts in the world would probably be the staffs left behind by powerful spellcasters.
Okay, this just has to become of my setting! :smallbiggrin:
Those things make good low level artifacts, like the Sword of Kas.

However, that loophole doesn't work to create Staffs by RAW, as a Staff still has a minimum CL of 8th. You'd also need to increase CL to make it work.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 02:08 PM
Okay, this just has to become of my setting! :smallbiggrin:
Those things make good low level artifacts, like the Sword of Kas.

However, that loophole doesn't work to create Staffs by RAW, as a Staff still has a minimum CL of 8th. You'd also need to increase CL to make it work.

A Spellgifted Wild Mage with Practiced Spellcaster could make CL8 Staffs from one school.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 02:56 PM
@BF: Yeah, I knew about some of the examples, I was just wondering if there was some text somewhere establishing any rules or boundaries for such 'multiclassing' items. They would be handy to have (assuming there are or are intended to be any restrictions at all) if one starts to deviate from the published examples when creating items.

@Yora: I think there is some errata or other in the Rules Compendium that changes the magic item creation prerequisites in such a way as to eliminate the need to meet the CL of the item - you just need the appropriate creation feat (which Item Familiar does away with) and access to the required spell.

Heck, grab the Bonded Item rules from DMG II and you can get around most of the "you need to know this spell" requirements too. :smallbiggrin:

Edit - now that I think about it, the Bonded Item rules allow you to get around the creation feats too, just like Item Familiar does.

Just depends on how much of this you want running around your particular E6 world, I guess. The Item Familiar rules are variant rules, and the Bonded Item rules also specifically state that the DM is free to make only specific powers available from certain rituals. But if you include them, you can access item-based spell effects of 4th level and higher quite easily if you have the time and money available.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 03:11 PM
Yeah the CL of the Item is not one of the Prereq's. (It is separated by a semi-colon). Staffs must be created at CL8 or above though, that is listed separate.

Aldizog
2011-03-08, 03:19 PM
Just depends on how much of this you want running around your particular E6 world, I guess. The Item Familiar rules are variant rules, and the Bonded Item rules also specifically state that the DM is free to make only specific powers available from certain rituals. But if you include them, you can access item-based spell effects of 4th level and higher quite easily if you have the time and money available.
Well, depending on your DM, E6 is either "D&D 3.5 with PC advancement capped at 6th level," or "A game system based on D&D 3.5, with PC advancement capped at 6th level and other associated changes." The latter, as with the E6 SRD project over at ENWorld, doesn't even have the spell lists of 4th level and above. A very few individual examples exist as rituals or special abilities, but, unlike the former interpretation, it's not like there are these spell lists that exist and are only accessible through clever tricks. The E6 SRD doesn't have either runestaves or item familiars as far as I can tell.

So, it depends on what sort of E6 you are dealing with.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 03:22 PM
Yeah the CL of the Item is not one of the Prereq's. (It is separated by a semi-colon). Staffs must be created at CL8 or above though, that is listed separate.

Well, if you use just the DMG, on page 215 it says that the creator's caster level must be as high as the items caster level for all items other than potions, scrolls, and wands. It doesn't matter how much or what type of punctuation is between the item CL and the item's (other) prerequisites if that rule is followed.

I believe it is that p.215 rule that the Rules Compendium errata'd away.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 03:31 PM
I'm not seeing that in the SRD. Instead I find:The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)

This seems to be the section you are referring to.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 03:50 PM
You're right, the SRD has changed the text from the original DMG printing. The sentence right above the "Prerequisites" section is what they changed - in the DMG, it says that the creator CL needs to be as high as the item CL.

Yora
2011-03-08, 03:52 PM
Furthermore, a staff can hold a spell of any level, unlike a wand, which is limited to spells of 4th level or lower. The minimum caster level of a staff is 8th.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm

You don't need to match the Caster Level listed in the magic item descriptions, you can create items at a lower CL as long as it's high enough for the prerequisite spells and feats. Except when the item description explicitly states a minimum CL. Which the general description for staffs does.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 03:58 PM
You're right, the SRD has changed the text from the original DMG printing. The sentence right above the "Prerequisites" section is what they changed - in the DMG, it says that the creator CL needs to be as high as the item CL.

They did list errata before the MIC, hence the change in the SRD.



Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster
Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 04:11 PM
Yep, that was another part of what was changed.

In the DMG, the CL of a potion, wand, or scroll is set by the creator, and can be adjusted to any number equal to (or between) the minimum CL of the spell and the creator's CL. For all other items, the CL is determined by the item, and the creator's CL must be at least as high as the item's CL.

In the SRD, the creator sets the item's CL.

----------------------------------

Edit:

Since my group games out of the books and not the SRD or the online errata, I thought the wording of the changes also eliminated the minimum CL8 requirement for staves. Having seen the SRD wording now (I didn't know the change had been made there) I can see that it does not.

I wonder why, then, do magic items from post-errata publications even have a CL listed next to them? Wouldn't the CL really just be "whatever CL the creator set" and not a fixed number? :smallconfused:

Apologies BTW if all this falls under the definition of thread derailment. :smallsmile: My answer to the original question (seems only fair to offer one!) is largely the same as Draz74's - the sorcerer's power drop relative to a wizards does not mean that the character is not viable or without options.

veven
2011-03-08, 04:12 PM
This isn't an answer regarding spells known, but i am playing a sorcerer in an E6 campaign right now and have gotten a huge amount of mileage out of reserve feats. Acidic Splatter and Touch of healing namely (i took arcane disciple: healing for flavor reasons) although there are tons of them. Complete mage and Complete Champion both have a wide selection and being able to have at will abilities like that is huge for a sorcerer.

Yora
2011-03-08, 04:13 PM
This thread derailed in post #2.

I still don't have any advice which spells to select for a sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

Keld Denar
2011-03-08, 04:25 PM
Yora, I'll help!

0th
Detect Magic
Sending
Mending
Light
Read Magic
Daze
Prestedigitation

1st
Enlarge Person
Grease
Benign Transposition (SpC)
Alarm (or Ray of Enfeeblement, see below)

2nd
Glitterdust
Kelgore's Grave Mist (or Rope Trick) (PHBII)

3rd
Haste

You want some form of safe camping. At 6th level, you can spend one of your 3rd level slots for an Extended Rope Trick, or you can opt for a simple Alarm spell. Either is good, I'd do one or the other. If you get the Alarm, take Kelgore's Grave Mist. If you take the Rope Trick, take Ray of Enfeeblement.

This selection should keep you as flexible as possible in the most likely challenges.

Bitte sehr!

EDIT: Thats assuming you aren't playing shananananananananananigans with Fell Draining, which I'd actually advise. Then I'd swap out Prestidigitation for Sonic Snap, and probably Enlarge Person for Magic Missile, since MM is a great vehicle for spreading out the negative levels with Fell Draining.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-08, 04:28 PM
IIRC, Craft Staff is a feat that requires a caster level of 12 to take. I'm not up to speed on all the CL boosts out there, but I would think that this might make Runestaffs hard to come by, if not unavailable altogether, in an E6 world.

Boosting to 12 is...a significant challenge. Im not saying impossible, but an orange ioun stone is pretty expensive in E6. Craft Magic Tattoo has a min CL requirement that you have to achieve before getting that boost.

It's possible(ie, flaw + wild mage + practiced spellcaster), but even that is incredibly problematic.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 04:45 PM
This thread derailed in post #2.

I still don't have any advice which spells to select for a sorcerer. :smallbiggrin:

"Eliminate the restrictions on spell selection by use of certain magic items" is an answer of sorts, even if it got a little detailed. :smallwink:

Alas, the only E6 sorcerers I've ever statted up have been NPCs with very narrowly focused "themed" spell lists - the lack of versatility makes for a very thematic and memorable encounter, but played by a PC over the course of a whole campaign it could easily get repetitive and boring.

Stegyre
2011-03-08, 05:19 PM
Boosting to 12 is...a significant challenge. Im not saying impossible, but an orange ioun stone is pretty expensive in E6. Craft Magic Tattoo has a min CL requirement that you have to achieve before getting that boost.

It's possible(ie, flaw + wild mage + practiced spellcaster), but even that is incredibly problematic.
Depending upon the interpretation of E6, Orange Ioun Stones may not be available (explicitly requires "creator must be level 12").

In terms of getting a creation CL up to 12:
1. Start with Artificer 6 (effective CL 8 for crafting).
2. Add friendly Bard with Inspire Spell Power (+1 CL).
3. Add CL 13 Craft Magic Tattoo (+1 CL; spare me detailing how to get casting CL 13; suffice to say that it's much easier raising casting CL than crafting CL).
4. Harmonic Chorus for +2 CL in short bursts.
(5. Evil characters use Death Knell for another +1 CL, but we won't go there.)

Yora
2011-03-08, 05:52 PM
Alas, the only E6 sorcerers I've ever statted up have been NPCs with very narrowly focused "themed" spell lists - the lack of versatility makes for a very thematic and memorable encounter, but played by a PC over the course of a whole campaign it could easily get repetitive and boring.
I've been trying to make a venerable half-fiend elf Sor6 who get to ignore the negative effects of high age and 15 epic bonus spells to create a BBEG.
That results in some seriously awesome ability scores and there's a huge load of feats to put into Extra Spells, Extra Slots, and Metamagic feats. But I'm still quite without a good plan what spells to select.
Dispel magic, fireball, haste, and hold person seem to be a good start. Summon Monster, grease, burning hands, mage armor, and charm person put some more useful stuff into the mix. But what do you do with it? Open with a fireball, haste your minions and then spam hold person. That does sound a bit underwhelming. Or do I approach this thing from the wrong direction? I'm not going for batman or a blaster, but is it even adviseable to create spellcasters that can dash out in combat?

(+4 Str, +6 Dex, +7 Int, +3 Wis, +5 Cha; SR 16, DR 5/magic, elemental resistance 10! Booyah! :smallbiggrin:)

Stegyre
2011-03-08, 06:00 PM
I've been trying to make a venerable half-fiend elf Sor6 who get to ignore the negative effects of high age and 15 epic bonus spells to create a BBEG.

That looks like pretty important additional information: BBEGs have very different constraints from PCs. (Fer'ex, if you need to give him more spells known feats, just do it.)

What sort of BBEG is he / what's the shtick?

Yora
2011-03-08, 06:55 PM
I this particular case a sorceress who has made a pact with demon lords that possesses her with a demon but allows her to remain in control and retain her form, which gives her the half-fiend template (without wings and claw attacks) and negates the aging penalties. She and her other sorcerer buddies have created their own small kingdom of demon worshippers and try to expend while various druid sects want to topple them.
But the idea is that she's not just a buffer and controller but can whipe the floor with most upstart heroes who barge into her throne room. But the main backstory is that she did not end up on top by killing off anyone else, but by making some very good choices when to say the right words and when to be somewhere else. Or is that the wrong approach for E6 spellcasters? 6th level sorcerers end up with barely 30 hp and a raging barbarian can power attack them for an instakill. With no stoneskin, teleport, and wall of force direct combat gets really scary, even if you can push yourself up to CR 10. 28 hp really isn't that much! :smallbiggrin:

But that's only a single specific case. I'm sure there will be a lot more sorcerers at lower levels that will pop up and I have to have something to give as advice to the players when they get their characters to higher levels.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 07:12 PM
That is a whole different story.

May I recommend the following?

Sorcerer5/TaintedScholar1 with Fiendish Heritage+Power

All spells are Evil, and all Evil spells get +1CL/+1DC. In addition, she can burn 1HP to raise CL by 1 (and DC by 1, IIRC). Combine with Reserves of Strength, and her Buffs will be fairly Uber (how do you do the e: thingy?) compared to the party

If you really want her to (RAW legal) have a sack of HP, take Arcane Thesis -- False Life, and Empower spell. That will give her an extra (1d10+13)*1.5.

Easy or Practical Empower is probably better overall, but you lose the +2CL from Arcane Thesis.

For 1 vs. Mob, I am a big fan of Web+Slow, and then pick them off.

Draz74
2011-03-08, 07:14 PM
I concur with Keld: Fell Drain is an extremely important spell for E6 casters who want to be throwing out scary offensive spells. Fell Drain Sonic Snap and Fell Drain Magic Missile ... that will scare your PCs quickly, all right. They probably won't enjoy Heightened Glitterdust either.

Calimehter
2011-03-08, 10:12 PM
If you really want her to (RAW legal) have a sack of HP, take Arcane Thesis -- False Life, and Empower spell. That will give her an extra (1d10+13)*1.5.

Easy or Practical Empower is probably better overall, but you lose the +2CL from Arcane Thesis.

The Arcane Thesis + Empower trick also works well for taking away sacks of HP. Scorching Ray done this way gives you 12d6 damage if you hit with both touch attacks, which will outright kill many E6 PCs.

dextercorvia
2011-03-08, 10:23 PM
The Arcane Thesis + Empower trick also works well for taking away sacks of HP. Scorching Ray done this way gives you 12d6 damage if you hit with both touch attacks, which will outright kill many E6 PCs.

If E6 blasting is what you want, you can do much better than that. We'll keep the Arcane Thesis on Scorching Ray, and Empower Spell. Add a Dash of the Spellgifted Wild Mage, Practiced Spellcaster, Energy Sub+Admixture, Invisible Spell, Sanctum Spell. By that time you can do 12d6 each of two to three targets, depending your CL roll. (Your CL is 9+1d6, and you only need an 11 for three rays.) This doesn't really hit it's stride until the second E6 bonus feat, even starting as a Human with 2 flaws.

Gavinfoxx
2011-03-08, 10:27 PM
For E6, might I suggest, instead of a sorcerer, going with gorfnod's easy bake no "worries" wizard?



Easy Bake No "Worries" Wizard

Elf, preferably Gray

Elf Wizard Racial Sub - Races of the Wild
Eidetic Spellcaster ACF - Dragon Magazine #357
Spontaneous Divination ACF - Complete Champion - Optional but great at higher levels
Collegiate Wizard feat - Complete Arcane

1st Level - 7+ Int mod 1st level spells known, all cantrips, 1 extra spell per day of highest level
No Familiar, No Scribe Scroll, No Spellbook

If flaws are available
Precocious Apprentice: Melf's Acid Arrow, Ice Knife, or Combust - Complete Arcane
Acidic Splatter, Winter's Blast, or Fiery Burst - Complete Mage
Sacred Vow + Vow of Poverty - Book of Exalted Deeds - depending on the campaign, this may work

Note: Every level after 1st that advances wizard spellcasting gets you 5 spells known for free instead of the usual 2
Edit: If you're playing in Eberron, the feat Aerenal Arcanist (Player's Guide to Eberron) will net you an additional spell known per level netting you 8+Int spells at 1st level and 6 additional spells known every level after that.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-08, 10:41 PM
I should mention, anything with spell-like abilities can use that caster level to meet the prerequisites for item creation feats, so about half the outsiders in the game could take Craft Staff if they wanted to. Develop an Incantation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm) to cast Planar Binding or similar and you've got an explanation for a crafting source for any item in the game. Furthermore, a Midgard Dwarf in Frostburn is capable of crafting any magical arms, armor, wondrous, or ring regardless of its prerequisites, which includes intelligent items and even epic items of these types. Any of those creatures will still exist in an E6 setting, they just won't be seen as frequently.

gorfnab
2011-03-09, 02:34 AM
For E6, might I suggest, instead of a sorcerer, going with gorfnod's easy bake no "worries" wizard?
I guess I'm full of suggestions :smalltongue:

Okay here is one that works in E6. Take the feat Arcane Preparation and go into Mage of the Arcane Order. So something like Beguiler 5/ Mage of the Arcane Order 1 suddenly becomes quite a bit more versatile and sturdy than Wizard 6. This set up would also work fairly easily for Sorcerer, Warmage, or even Dread Necromancer. Granted the prereqs for Mage of the Arcane Order will eat up pretty much all of your low level feats: Arcane Preparation, Cooperative Spell, and one other metamagic feat.

Yora
2011-03-09, 06:56 AM
Not that I don't appreciate your efforts, but as usual most replies end up being "drop your original concept" and "go 100% cheese with a combination of 9 different splatbooks". :smallwink:

I did not say core only, as it's not a problem to use some Spell Compendium spells and one or two Complete Arcane feats.
But this is really just for a low-optimization campaign that is heavy on story with just a few combats, and I want to get an idea how to make sorcerers that are interesting to play and interesting to fight.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-09, 09:47 AM
That is a whole different story.

May I recommend the following?

Sorcerer5/TaintedScholar1 with Fiendish Heritage+Power

All spells are Evil, and all Evil spells get +1CL/+1DC. In addition, she can burn 1HP to raise CL by 1 (and DC by 1, IIRC). Combine with Reserves of Strength, and her Buffs will be fairly Uber (how do you do the e: thingy?) compared to the party

Ima just point out that Spell Focus(Evil) is a legitimate feat if you're going down this path.

dextercorvia
2011-03-09, 09:52 AM
Ima just point out that Spell Focus(Evil) is a legitimate feat if you're going down this path.

Is it really necessary though? I kinda figured TS would have your DC's taken care of.

Cieyrin
2011-03-09, 01:46 PM
Is it really necessary though? I kinda figured TS would have your DC's taken care of.

I believe you're mixing up 'necessary' and 'Need more Dakka,' here. You can always use more. :smallwink:

dextercorvia
2011-03-09, 02:18 PM
I believe you're mixing up 'necessary' and 'Need more Dakka,' here. You can always use more. :smallwink:

If you have DC's 20 over the party's highest mod, you are better off focusing feats on forcing them to make mulitiple saves (via Twin spell, Ocular spell, etc.), so that you don't need to worry about nat 20's.

It's rather like a character with 6 attacks taking a feat to add one more, versus taking a feat to double the damage of all of them.

Abemad
2011-03-09, 03:08 PM
Well for expanding a sorcerers spells known, there is always the draconic heritage feats? (in E6 this would be a level 1 and 3 spell, and 1 wasted level 5) while it isn't the greatest spells, some of them are allright... the white f.ex. gets obscuring mist and sleetstorm, the blue gets major image and the black gets deeper darkness....

Couple that with draconic breath for blasting needs, and maybe draconic presence for minor fear effects, draconic flight, and you're set ;) (at least in a low power campaign...)

add to that a couple of reserve feats for extra diversity,

veven
2011-05-09, 01:58 PM
Wings of cover is a great 2nd level sorcerer only spell. Getting to just say no to one attack is awesome.

Gavinfoxx
2011-05-09, 04:00 PM
I will second Knowstones as a GREAT way to improve spells known! Better than custom Runestaves, IMO. They're from a Dragon Magazine...

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-05-09, 04:03 PM
I guess Thread Necromancy is a low enough level spell to be used in E6...