Maximum HP: An Overpowered Class Feature

[wayfare]

Quick question: would a class feature that maximizes hit dice be over-powered?

[Chess435]

Would it be retroactive?

[The Glyphstone]

Depends on the size of the die.

[ScionoftheVoid]

It depends. Would it apply to the hit die of just that class? If not, would it be retroactive and/or dippable?

If the answer to the first question is "yes", almost certainly not. If either of the second ones is "yes" it may very well be, particularly if it's accessible via dip.

[Stegyre]

Quick question: would a class feature that maximizes hit dice be over-powered?
Clarification: I assume you mean "hit points," as "maximizing hit dice" is nonsensical?

Short answer: no.

Look at the Tier 1 classes (Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Psion): how many of them achieved this status based on their hit points?

Stated another way, d4 hit points were supposed to be an equalizing factor for wizards. It failed. Miserably.

[Aspenor]

All classes have this class feature in my campaigns. All monsters do, too. :smallbiggrin:

[Dead_Jester]

It's only hp's. Any caster worth his salt can easily get a metric ton of it (temporary hitpoints are your friend). The only reason they don't is because it's hard (relatively speaking) to kill some one with HP damage.

I'd allow it, as it would make HP tanking without uber vampirism/temp hit point/loads of continuous healing abuse possible (although health becomes irrelevant after you get Delay Death, or even better, you persist it...).

The only potential problem is with the power words series of spells, as they would become less effective. A solution would be to multiply by 1.5 or 2 the maximum hp it can affect.

[Psyborg]

The extreme case is, of course, a character with all d12 hit dice at level 20.

This character has 12 + 19d12 + (Con mod * 20) hit points without the class feature in question. She has 12*20 + Con mod * 20 hit points with it. Assuming the given rolls and Con mods, the character would have the following HP without the class feature, HP with the class feature, and percentage increase from the class feature:

--All 1s, Con +0: 31 / 240 / +674%
--All 1s, Con +6: 151 / 360 / +674%
--Average rolls, Con +0: 135.5 / 240 / +77%
--Average rolls, Con +6: 255.5 / 360 / +41%
--All 12s, Con +0: 240 / 240 / +0%
--All 12s, Con +6: 360 / 360 / +0%

So it's obviously most useful for low-Con characters with large Hit Dice, getting progressively worse with higher Con, smaller Hit Dice, and better luck with the existing rolled HP.

As an early-level feature of a prestige class, or a class feature of a base class before level 18 or so, I'd have a problem with it. As a PrC capstone (or mid-PrC feature for defensive PrCs such as Dwarven Defender remakes) or a capstone for, say, Barbarian, Crusader, or Paladin, it'd be fine.

All the above assumes that it's retroactive. If it's not retroactive, it's entirely dependent on what level it's gained at.

On the whole, it'd be nice, possibly very nice, but pumping Con would be even nicer.

[Thurbane]

Be a great class feature for Undead or Constructs.

[wayfare]

Thanks for the responses!

Its retroactive (the class would gain it at 8th level), but it only applies to levels you take in the class.

The class that gets it has a d12 hit die.

[cfalcon]

That doesn't sound overpowered at all. In fact, when you get it, it's an average of (12-6.5)*8=44 hit points, capping out at an average of 55 hit points gained at level 10 (assuming a 10 level PRC).

So simply balance it around that assumption.

It's also easier for game balance than a flat 55 hit point thing- a poor roller (a 1, a few <4s) will see a bigger benefit, but a high roller will see a smaller one.

Remember that anyone with levels in this PRC has to keep track of what they rolled for each and every level of the PRC, a requirement that you should note at first level, as it is different than other classes substantially.

In my games, all classes (characters, monsters), get to roll each hit die twice at each level and take the higher die.

[Doug Lampert]

It's only hp's. Any caster worth his salt can easily get a metric ton of it (temporary hitpoints are your friend). The only reason they don't is because it's hard (relatively speaking) to kill some one with HP damage.

And increasing HP makes this worse. Are fighters and blaster evokers really so overpowered that they need to be nerfed? Because in general anything that increases HP totals makes HP dealing classes relatively even less useful.

Now the OP is just doing this for one class. But many posters have mentioned maximizing HP for both monsters and PCs. I really think this is a bad idea in 3.x, you're weakening EXACTLY the tactics you really need to strengthen.