[3.5] Huge Character

[Thurbane]

Hey all,

If I was looking to make a melee based PC (or NPC) of size Huge, what is the least RHD/LA (ECL) and/or CR (for an NPC) I could get away with?

I'm talking about a character that is always Huge, as opposed to using Giant Size or Psionic Expansion. It's to take advantage of a number of combat feats and maneuvres that have size Huge or larger as a req.

Alternative, id there any way for a Large (or Medium) character to qualify as Huge for feats?

Cheers - T

[tonberrian]

You can take feats if you only qualify for them some of the time - you only get the benefits while you qualify for them. So Expansion is perfectly valid for qualifying for size based feats.

Failing that, I think the closest is half-Minotaur Half Ogre, which I think clocks in at 2 RHD and LA 4, but I'm only guessing because I don't have Half Minotaur and it's cheesetastic anyways.

[tuesdayscoming]

You can take feats if you only qualify for them some of the time - you only get the benefits while you qualify for them. So Expansion is perfectly valid for qualifying for size based feats.

Failing that, I think the closest is half-Minotaur Half Ogre, which I think clocks in at 2 RHD and LA 4, but I'm only guessing because I don't have Half Minotaur and it's cheesetastic anyways.

IIRC, these templates only give you a size bump if you're medium or smaller, so no dice using them to get to huge. Could be wrong, though.

[Curmudgeon]

IIRC, these templates only give you a size bump if you're medium or smaller, so no dice using them to get to huge. Could be wrong, though.
You're not wrong.

[tonberrian]

Well, I was working from memory of a Template I've never seen. I was bound to screw up somewhere.

The first point still stands, though.

[TroubleBrewing]

Half-Minotaur with a permanent Enlarge Person clocks in at +1 LA... but smells strongly of swiss...

[Thurbane]

Looking at Savage species, the Treant monster class is Huge at 12th level.

Is there some kind of template that could applied to , say, a 1/2 Ogre that would make it Huge? Some kind of Lycanthrope (although a huge animal is likely to have a bucketload of RHD)?

Half-Minotaur with a permanent Enlarge Person clocks in at +1 LA... but smells strongly of swiss...
I prefer to avoid Dragon Mag if possible. I supposed a 1/2 Ogre Cleric with Persisted Righteous Might could pull off something similar.

[Claudius Maximus]

I think there's a ring of continuous Enlarge Person in some book. Probably Savage Species.

[dextercorvia]

What about Druid15+?

[The Winter King]

Half Goristo makes you huge. It is a variant halffiend from the wizards site

[Zaydos]

Looking at Savage species, the Treant monster class is Huge at 12th level.

Is there some kind of template that could applied to , say, a 1/2 Ogre that would make it Huge? Some kind of Lycanthrope (although a huge animal is likely to have a bucketload of RHD)?

Lowest I can find in MM1 is 6 HD with huge viper followed by 7 HD for giant crocodile, and 8 HD for megaraptor.

Huge Viper is +6 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con and a poisonous bite also +5 natural armor, swim and climb speeds (meh); giant crocodile has +16 Str, +2 Dex, and +6 Con and +7 natural armor and a swim speed; megaraptor has +10/+4/+10 and pounce, 60-ft land speed and +6 natural armor.

[Urpriest]

Is Tauric abuse allowed?

Apparently requires a Medium or Large quadruped, and clocks in at LA +3. So almost certainly worse than Half-Goristro Half-Minotaur (which BTW would have awesome fluff).

[Thurbane]

What about Druid15+?
Not really what I was looking for, but good thought.

Half Goristo makes you huge. It is a variant halffiend from the wizards site
Sweet - what's the ECL on that?

Lowest I can find in MM1 is 6 HD with huge viper followed by 7 HD for giant crocodile, and 8 HD for megaraptor.

Huge Viper is +6 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Con and a poisonous bite also +5 natural armor, swim and climb speeds (meh); giant crocodile has +16 Str, +2 Dex, and +6 Con and +7 natural armor and a swim speed; megaraptor has +10/+4/+10 and pounce, 60-ft land speed and +6 natural armor.
Nice. :smallsmile:

Is Tauric abuse allowed?
I guess it's no cheesier than some of the other suggestion, so go for it.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wouldn't a half-minotaur Goliath count as huge for all purposes and intents?

The half-goristo would have LA +4 so ECL 5 at the least.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Powerful Build + any template that makes you Large should work. Alternatively, a Half-Ogre in Races of Destiny, using the Half-Humans variant in the sidebar on page 150, could take the feat Jotunbrud from Races of Destiny which is pretty much the same as Powerful Build except for the weapon size increase. That's a +2 LA race and one feat to accomplish what you want for minimal cheese.

[FishAreWet]

Thrall of Kostchtchie is a prestige class that grants a size bonus over ten levels. There is another prestige class, I can't remember the name of it, that grants a size bonus over five level. The catch is that you devote your life to raising the Tarrasque. Alas, they're both from Dragon Magazine. Short of that,

Righteous Might/Enlarge Person/Expansion are all options. So is Alter Self and the Polymorph line. Another option is the Goliath ACF for Barbarians which takes away powerful build but grants a size bonus during a rage.

A Half Minotaur Duregar with the Magic In the Blood feat can use Expansion 3/day with ML = HD, enough to cast it as a Swift Action and have it last for three hours each time.

@Powerful Build, this does not grant reach or the ability to qualify as a higher size. Want to know what it grants? Read the ability. If it's not listed here it doesn't do it.


Powerful Build (Ex)

The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

[Urpriest]

So far the best I'm getting via sneakiness is a Half-Minotaur (or other Large +1 LA) Entomanothrope Great Old Master for +3 LA and 5 HD...but since that's still worse than a Half-Minotaur Half-Goristro, I'll keep looking. Still, this was an amusing enough image to post.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A newer version is in Races of Stone, along with Precedent:

Prerequisites: Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, size
Large or larger (goliaths qualify by virtue of their powerful
build racial trait).

Prerequisites: Str 19, size Large or larger (goliaths
qualify by virtue of their powerful build racial trait).

Prerequisites: Str 23, Rock Hurling, size Large or
larger (goliaths qualify by virtue of their powerful build
racial trait).
That's every feat printed in RoS that requires size Large or bigger, and every one of them accepts Powerful Build as fulfillment of that prerequisite.

[The Glyphstone]

So there's RAW precedent for a DM ruling in favor of it, at least. It's not 100% legal by the book though.

[FishAreWet]

Golaiths qualify because it's in the Goliath book. No one else does. And only for those three feats. I knew about them but didn't include them because they're totally irrelevant. RAW precedent is a nonsense term, precedent is explicitly intended or implied meaning while RAW is RAW. I see the argument that it should qualify for other feats but it simply does not.

[AtomicKitKat]

Start with Half-Ogre(Races of Destiny), pick that Human Heritage thing, get Aberration Blood, Inhuman Reach, Deepspawn,(all 3 from Lords of Madness) Extend Tentacles(Savage Species), and now you've got the Reach of a Huge(Gargantuan?) creature. Still won't help you get the size increase though.

[Curmudgeon]

Golaiths qualify because it's in the Goliath book. No one else does. And only for those three feats. I knew about them but didn't include them because they're totally irrelevant. RAW precedent is a nonsense term, precedent is explicitly intended or implied meaning while RAW is RAW. I see the argument that it should qualify for other feats but it simply does not.
As an additional bit of support for the RAW position, note that Jotunbrud has similar characteristics to Goliath Powerful Build, but gets no special consideration for any feats. Neither does Powerful Build from the Stonebone template (Dragon # 350, page 36). Nor does Goliath qualify generally for feats that require Large+ size (like Large and In Charge, or Awesome Blow); it's only got special consideration in feats in Races of Stone. So "precedent" is bunk; Goliath just has an exception for a few feats found in one book.

[AtomicKitKat]

I like how the Stone Bone creature doesn't apparently lose a Fly speed altogether. Just slows down. But apparently, a Mineral Warrior does. :smalltongue:

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

Sun or Forrest Giant is the best LA/HD if you don't want cheese. Even better if you level drain away twelve of the HD as it is truly huge sized without powerful build or oth

[dextercorvia]

Sun or Forrest Giant is the best LA/HD if you don't want cheese. Even better if you level drain away twelve of the HD as it is truly huge sized without powerful build or oth

How do you d

[Hirax]

Half minotaur goliath, +2 LA gets you to large with powerful build. Take a level in barbarian and you become huge when you rage. Dip into PsyWar and you can ratchet yourself up one OR two more size categories to become gargantuan or colossal.

edit: if you'd like you can lose the half minotaur to get rid of 1 LA and settle for being able to get to gargantuan. The 30 foot reach of colossal is pretty awesome though.

edit2: be aware also that you're also going to commit many more levels and resources into getting the second size increase from expansion, since it requires 7PP, and 9PP if you want to increase the duration from being measured in rounds/level to 10m/level. Expansion on SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm). So basically you'd need to get 3 levels of PsyWar with the practiced manifester feat to get the second size increase, and 5 levels with the same feat to increase the duration.

[The_Jackal]

Let me say that I do not recommend this course of action. You'll be very effective against scrubs and nothing else. Anyone with a ranged weapon, spell or a high AC is going to crush you outright.

[Zaydos]

I just wonder if this is an attempt to use the Snatch feat, or else what feat that requires huge do you want?

[Deathslayer7]

half-ogre with a ring of enlarge person (continous if you can afford it) is probably the easiest way and cheapest in terms of LA and gold.

[Boci]

How do you d

Lose hit dit to negative levels, voluntarily fail save to lose them permenently.

[Lyndworm]

half-ogre with a ring of enlarge person (continous if you can afford it) is probably the easiest way and cheapest in terms of LA and gold.

Half-ogres are immune to enlarge person. They're Giants, not Humanoids.

[Tvtyrant]

Half-ogres are immune to enlarge person. They're Giants, not Humanoids.

Ring of Continuous Expansion :P

[Thurbane]

Sun or Forrest Giant is the best LA/HD if you don't want cheese. Even better if you level drain away twelve of the HD as it is truly huge sized without powerful build or oth
I think Mountain Troll comes out slightly better in terms of ECL.

I just wonder if this is an attempt to use the Snatch feat, or else what feat that requires huge do you want?
A number of feats, namely Area Attack, Blowhard, Crush and/or Fling Enemy (SS version). Also, some that merely require large size: Awesome Blow, Knockback and/or Large & In Charge.

Lose hit dit to negative levels, voluntarily fail save to lose them permenently.
Fairly cheesey, and if used gratuitously, likely to result in DMGs being hurled at you.