Homebrew d20 40k Space Marine game...how should I make it?

[Craftworld]

Hey guys I want to make a d20 style game, but I am stuck before getting started.
-Should I have something like an Armor class system, or have the people roll off (with appropriate bonuses) to see if the hit lands home or the defender blocks?
-How should I run HP? Marines have little in the way of classes that I could go off here so yeah...that and they are super human...
-How should I run stats...because they are superhuman, I can't really think of a reliable way to make them seem as such and make the stats believable.
-How should I scale the encounters because I am still a relatively new DM and they are superhuman so I can't think of totally good encounter numbers.
ANY advice will be appreciated, and thanked.

[Fushichou217]

Since a Space Marine is an augmented human, and humans still exist in the traditional sense in the same universe, your best bet for building them into a "monster class" progression, where they start out essentially human, and progress through the augmentation process just like they do in the fiction. If I am remembering correctly most Space Marines start their careers as slightly above average humans, and their first assignments are typically as Scouts.

Scouts wear minimal armor, and focus on recon missions and such. Once they spend the alloted time in that career path they go through an augmentation process, which you could represent in steps through the monster class. Then once they reach the final stages they are given the big beast armor they are so known for.

You could even finish the progression all the way up through Terminator Marines, who have still more augmentation in order to survive in their super powered armor.

You asked about armor and I'd use the traditional armor system with AC and such, but you should do whatever you and your players are comfortable with.

Finally encounters shouldn't be too hard to scale, just buff the enemies in a similar fashion. If your fighting the Orks for instance, make them bigger.

Thats my two bits, don't know if I helped but hey, what can you do.

[tzaan]

probably a stupid question but whatever: is d20 any different to 3.5? I ask because I focus solely on that and know next to nothing about other systems or other names for stuff


Anyway, I'm a complete nerd and happen to know a lot about Astartes physiology:
create a template with buffs to Str, Dex, Con and Int, Darkvision, the Extraordinary Ability to spit acid, massive bonuses to Spot and Listen, Powerful Build, Fast Healing, Light Fortification (Space Marines have fused ribcages turning the bone essentially into a solid sheath of bone around the vital organs) and probably DR because of the insane reinforcement to the bones and tissue

They have two hearts but I wouldn't know how to implement that. Three lungs for coping with gas, a super efficient stomach (Aberrant Feat: Scavenging Gullet from Lords of Madness)
Eidetic memories (consider having Autohypnosis?), perfect balance and the ability to enter Suspended Animation (instant stabilise at -9 when out of combat?)
Oh, and they shouldn't have an age limit so...the Int, Wis and Cha buffs of aging without the physical debuffs?

Space Marines are basically gods compared to mere mortals. Imagine ^that^ in Power Armour which augments strength, speed, senses and gives constant long range communication between team members. Now imagine that with a bolter

Ever thought about what a bolter is? It's a rapid fire rocket launcher. The standard ammunition is a mass reactive warhead wrapped in super dense alloys. Now imagine a Plasma Cannon: Wand of Heightened Fireball? :smalleek:

[Dead_Jester]

What Tzaan said is all good,

For classes, there's really 2 options; either you make a single space marine class, with a lot of abilities and versatility (and probably a few paths to represent the different archetypes), and that probably rises through the ranks as well (scout, marine, 1st company, etc), or you make different classes for each archetype (apothecary, assault, devastator, etc).

You could also mix both, giving all marines a set of abilities as they level up (sort of like a bloodline) and a class for their individual archetype. The only thing is that with this setup, most (if not all) characters should be at least decent in strait up combat, which is pretty accurate considering that all space marine archetypes are marines first/something else.

As for challenging your PC's, remember that this you are playing in wh40k, and that your average ork is an 8 ft tall, incredibly tough, green killing machine that can probably rip a normal man in two. If you're going to be giving a pretty good set of bonuses to your players, don't be afraid to do the same to their enemies. You pc's should be afraid of xenos, not because they're evil, but because most of them can easily rip them apart, and that's the nice ones.

The only problem you might experience is the fact that in d20, most characters scale exponentially, whilst the normal 40k universe scales linearly. This means that, at higher levels, the average mook will be trivial, unless you somehow make the power progression linear, or close enough (for example, if you play in e6, the average mook still stays somewhat dangerous, but your characters still feel like they're progressing). Another way of doing this is with a vitality point system (or wounds), that should make the combat more deadly.

[Craftworld]

Thanks guys, I am going to probably copy all of your comments onto a word doc. so that I can look them up at any time without having to search to hard. Thank you guys very much and this will make it much more easy for me to make that game so that I can get it tested and out to my players and have them start learning. Thank you again, and have a very nice day from me to you all!:smallbiggrin:
EDIT: Oh and to answer your question Tzaan, the d20 system (that I know of) is any game that uses a d20 as its "jack of all trades" dice. D and D is d20 system but Traveler with its 2d6 instead of the d20 is not.

[Icedaemon]

As with above, I advise making Space Marine into a monster class. The Apothecary, Chaplain, Techmarine, Librarian and Terminator should be prestige classes, with 'normal' progression still continuing past the point where one is eligible for Terminator honours to represent .

For example (I am just throwing this here without thinking much of balance, only flavour and mechanical simplicity), level 1-2, recruit; 3-5, scout, 6-8; complete growth into powerful build and the Black Carapace, with the marine still serving with scout equipment. continue the progression from there on, to at least level 15, probably higher to represent 1st company veterans and honour guard. However, the improvements beyond level 8 should probably not be ability score increases, only a mass of feats, combat bonuses and other hallmarks of fighter-progression-type advancement. Since the psykers' powers are a lot less safe than any magical progression in D&D, a simple fighter-like space marine would not be that much weaker than a max-level psyker.

Let a level 8-10 space marine (possibly with a specific build) fulfill the prequisites for librarian, chaplain and apothecary, which should themselves be powerful 10-level prestige classes. Any would-be Librarian definetly needs the psychic affinity trait (It should be a trait, but one with greater penalties and bonuses than the usual D&D trait, with the con greatly overshadowing the pro, at least until a psyker class is entered. While a marine who desires to become a chaplain or apothecary should perhaps not need to follow quite as hard a path as a would-be librarian, they must still spend a large percentage of their skill points and feats on learning, respectively, chapter lore and religion or medicine and geneseed-related knowledge.

Since it should have higher requirements, Terminator should perhaps be a 5-level prestige class, to represent that only very highly skilled marines, librarians and chaplains could go above and beyond the call of duty enough to earn the Crux Terminatus anyway - that the minimum level for a terminator librarian be near-epic does appeal to me.

Space marines who pilot tanks and warships should probably simply be multiclass space marine/pilots. I think a pilot class already exists in D20 Modern?

I trust you already know this wiki (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page)?

[Anonymouswizard]

EDIT: Oh and to answer your question Tzaan, the d20 system (that I know of) is any game that uses a d20 as its "jack of all trades" dice. D and D is d20 system but Traveler with its 2d6 instead of the d20 is not.

Actually, the d20 system is any game that uses the same core system as D&D 3.5, in which I mean the d20 as the main dice, the six stats, a class system, a skills+feats+multiclass system for customisation, and others. A game can use the 3.5 d20 system under the OGL, and doesn't need the d20 logo on it (not sure about the specifics), but 4e spin-off types are more tightly controlled.

And I'd suggest going with a system similar to the Starship Troopers d20 game: a single base class all characters begin in and progress in (from 10-20 levels) that represents scouts and normal marines. Then the following roles should be prestige classes: librarian, chaplain, apothecary, officer, veteran, and any others you want (but not devastators or assault marines, as these are steps to being a tactical marine.

[Ashtagon]

Before you continue with this project, an important decision has to be made. Do you want to convert WH: The Fluff, or WH: The Crunch? If The Fluff, which side's fluff is 'more reliable' where they disagree.

[Icedaemon]

If going with the fluff (as I assumed), I suggest picking the fluff of the less favoured factions as the 'correct' one, for balance purposes. Space marines are designed to be slightly overpowered, especially those from certain specific chapters.

[Craftworld]

So from what I have been seeing is that I should have a base Space Marine Class. From levels 1-3(or 4) have them be Recruits (what bonuses/abilities should come during this time?), then Scouts from 4(or 5)- 7(or 8)(what bonuses should be here?), then from how I remember the marine fluff they go Devastaters, Assault Marines, then Normal Marines so how should I do that? I was thinking that since Vanguard, Sternguard, and Termies are all First Company Veterans should it be one prestige class (because the first company is so versitile) or be three different ones (to make things simpler)
This all seems like it gives me very little time to give out the ability to take levels in Librarian etc...
How am I going to be able to throw that in?

[Icedaemon]

Personally, I would suggest that devastators, assault marines and everything between should be achievable via the basic Space Marine class - one which allows varied specialization and customization. If some marine players take feats which allow for the use of jump packs and improve close combat, they get assault marines. If some focus entirely on heavy weapons and long-range combat, they get devastators. At least in my mind, the Space Marine would be well represented by a form of fighter++. Most first company veterans are simply highly skilled marines with slightly better weaponry. It seems to me that terminator armour and the associated equipment (like the assault cannon and personal teleporters) are somewhat separate from usual space marine equipment. Thus, while a sternguard veteran and a terminator might have an equal level and the sternguard might have the Crux Terminatus honours, this could well mean that while the sternguard fulfills the prequisites for joining the terminators, he does not necessarily have enough training with the heavier armour to believe that he would be a better fighter as a terminator than he is as a member of the sternguard.

I also suggest low HD progression for the marines. They are supposed to be hard to kill due to absurdly high armour class (Terminator armour should probably give something like +14-+20 AC and damage resistance 10-20/power weapons), not because they have a ton of hit points. The lots of hit point monster classes ought to be ork and necron, who are both notoriously hard to kill even if you chop big pieces off - the marines are superhuman, but they are superhuman and need most of their organs intact to operate properly the same as the rest of us.

Hmm... Armour saves could scale well... 6+ - DR 2-3/power weapons
5+ dr 4-6/power weapons
4+ dr 6-9/power weapons
3+ dr 8-12/power weapons
2+ dr 10-15/power weapons

Of course, DR should only be applicable on full-body armour. Thus, a guardsman with a carpace armour would typically not get the DR bonus, since the arms and legs are only covered by cloth (unless it is stormtrooper carpace, which I think covers the whole body, or the cloth itself is ruled as some form of kevlar weave). Likewise, most space marine officers do not receive damage resistance versus critical hits, since they are too arrogant to wear their helmets.

[profitofrage]

most space marine officers do not receive damage resistance versus critical hits, since they are too arrogant to wear their helmets.

Id just like people to know, theres a reason why space marine sergants dont often wear helmets.
1) they are often 100+ years old, this means they get rather lovely " studds" in there heads...often in the form of metal plating.
2) there senses are often far better then the digital systems in there helmets.
One prime example are the Space wolves, who diliberatly take them off because they cant smell or hear as well.

[Craftworld]

Personally, I would suggest that devastators, assault marines and everything between should be achievable via the basic Space Marine class - one which allows varied specialization and customization. If some marine players take feats which allow for the use of jump packs and improve close combat, they get assault marines. If some focus entirely on heavy weapons and long-range combat, they get devastators. At least in my mind, the Space Marine would be well represented by a form of fighter++. Most first company veterans are simply highly skilled marines with slightly better weaponry. It seems to me that terminator armour and the associated equipment (like the assault cannon and personal teleporters) are somewhat separate from usual space marine equipment. Thus, while a sternguard veteran and a terminator might have an equal level and the sternguard might have the Crux Terminatus honours, this could well mean that while the sternguard fulfills the prequisites for joining the terminators, he does not necessarily have enough training with the heavier armour to believe that he would be a better fighter as a terminator than he is as a member of the sternguard.

I also suggest low HD progression for the marines. They are supposed to be hard to kill due to absurdly high armour class (Terminator armour should probably give something like +14-+20 AC and damage resistance 10-20/power weapons), not because they have a ton of hit points. The lots of hit point monster classes ought to be ork and necron, who are both notoriously hard to kill even if you chop big pieces off - the marines are superhuman, but they are superhuman and need most of their organs intact to operate properly the same as the rest of us.

Hmm... Armour saves could scale well... 6+ - DR 2-3/power weapons
5+ dr 4-6/power weapons
4+ dr 6-9/power weapons
3+ dr 8-12/power weapons
2+ dr 10-15/power weapons

Of course, DR should only be applicable on full-body armour. Thus, a guardsman with a carpace armour would typically not get the DR bonus, since the arms and legs are only covered by cloth (unless it is stormtrooper carpace, which I think covers the whole body, or the cloth itself is ruled as some form of kevlar weave). Likewise, most space marine officers do not receive damage resistance versus critical hits, since they are too arrogant to wear their helmets.

I like the flexibility of that so I am going to just give the class proficiency with a larger range of weapons so that that can be done. So from this I am thinking that the "Terminators" should be a prestige class with their own special stuff that they get. How shall I do invulnerable saves...different lesser DR or something different? Should Scout Armor be AC +5 and DR 8 and Power Armor be like +14 and DR like DR 10? For hit dice I am probably going to go with d10 like a fighter. The Orks and Necrons will have d12s and other "neato" special rules.

[stabbitty death]

and the problem with the deathwatch rpg is?

[Craftworld]

and the problem with the deathwatch rpg is?

There is none, the books are just very expensive and I do not wish to spend the money on a whole book that I may only use once and instead spend time on something that I will be proud of. I have no intention of selling this so really it will have no affect on Deathwatch at all.