Smite Builds: Viable?

[Fox Box Socks]

It's been several years since I played 3.5, but I distinctly remember Smite X abilities being...not very good. Almost always strictly worse than investing in Power Attack and going Full Attack.

So, two questions. First, refresh my memory: can you use Smite X as part of a full attack? Second, if no, then is there any way to make a Smite-based build that isn't just terribly outclassed by a Fighter with Power Attack?

[flabort]

I believe that if X is an alignment, you can only smite 1/3 of everything, as opposed to 3/3 for full attack, but I wouldn't know anything else about the subject.

[SurlySeraph]

1. You can use it as one attack in a full attack, sure. Not on every attack, though.
2. The best way is Ordained Champion, which can use Turn Undead uses for smite attempts. Most anything else just doesn't get enough smites. Paladin 5/ whatever X with the Charging Smite ACF (which doubles your damage if you smite on a charge) and Extra Smiting could do well, though.

EDIT: Ah, knew I had a build around here somewhere. I put this together when it occurred to me that raising your effective turning level increases your smite damage with Ordained Champion.

ECL 10. Lesser Aasimar Cleric 4/ Ordained Champion 5/ Paragnostic Apostle 1
Feats: Power Attack, Leap Attack, Awesome Smite, Extra Turning, Improved Turning
Items: Phylactery of Undead Turning (SRD, 11,000 gp), Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis, 9,000gp), Flametouched Iron holy symbol (Eberron, 750 gp), +1 Valorous weapon (Unapproachable East, 8,000 gp)

Progression:
1 Cleric, War domain (for free Weapon Focus), any other domain, Improved Turning
3 Cleric, Extra Turning
4 Cleric, 7 ranks in Know (religion)
5 OrdChamp, trade a domain for Power Attack
6 OrdChamp, Diehard, Awesome Smite
7 PA, See Through the Veil
8-10 OrdChamp, Leap Attack

+21 damage per smite, double it with Leap Attack, with nice extras from Awesome Smite. Would benefit from Shock Trooper, though.

[tyckspoon]

1. You can use it as one attack in a full attack, sure. Not on every attack, though.


It's a non-action that enhances another attack, so yeah, you can use it on every attack.. but each use only buffs one attack, so you generally don't want to. I have yet to see a build that had a deep enough Smite pool to do that and not be entirely tapped out after just one fight (well. Maybe Ordained Champion with Nightstick stacking.)

[Kyuu Himura]

Well, as it has been said before, you can declare a Smite in one attack when making a full attack, the bonus to hit sinergizes somewhat well woth Power Attack if you have a good enough stat.

And then there's a Paladin X/Fist of Raziel Y/Cavalier 2 charging and smiting with a Valorous Smiting Lance and a Rhino charge spell. That hurts.

When full power attacking, that guy would deal like 6*(1d8 + 40 [from PA] + 20 [from smite] + 1.5*STR + weapon enhancement bonus)

Assuming a humble 20 strenght and a +5 weapon, that's like 450-ish damage. Ouch. If you can make your mount fly (you could actually have a flying one in 3.0) then you can get a somewhat versatile charging smiter in there. You're not a Druid, but really now, you're not really all that bad.

[Flickerdart]

Extra Smite gives you Smites for every Smite you have, so getting multiple Smites works well. Azure Smite (MoI) is also a consideration for a Soulborn base.

[Fox Box Socks]

Soulborn base also involves you being Soulborn, and there isn't much a Soulborn can do that a Charging Smite Paladin / Fist of Raziel can't do better.

[Zaq]

Sapphire Smite, a feat from Magic of Incarnum, is crucial for Smite-happy builds. Investing essentia in it gives you more smites per day and more damage on each smite. If you have multiple smite pools (for instance, if you're a killoren paladin), it can easily be argued to increase all of them, much the same way that Extra Turning increases all of your separate turning pools. The downside is that it's an incarnum feat, so it has that annoying habit of locking your essentia in one place (instead of leaving it free to be shuffled around, as essentia SHOULD be). If you can find a spare feat anywhere, Improved Essentia Capacity can increase the capacity of Sapphire Smite by one step, and it's often worthwhile (since it's hard to boost the capacity of incarnum feats).

Other than that, Killoren is a good race because they get a smite as a racial ability (and it's not a bad smite, either . . . it works CHA times per day but no more than 1/hr, and it works against the majority of enemies you'll fight). If Sapphire Smite lets you increase all of your smite pools simultaneously, it'd be worth dipping around to get as many pools as you can find. Since a smite only enhances a single attack, finding a way to shove in a few levels of a ToB class would be a good way to make up for the lack of proper full attacks (not that you can't use a full attack if you smite, but . . . you know what I mean). Crusaders get a native smite ability, but it's a few levels in.

There's also the trick of using Psycarnum Infusion to temporarily fill your Sapphire Smite with (essentially) temporary essentia for 1 round. How this affects your smites per day is . . . ambiguous. Ask your GM.

[MightyIgoo]

...Or you could switch to Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Smite-Evil-Su-) and be the best paladin you can be. + Cha to attack, and + your level to damage, PLUS a deflection bonus equal to Cha against your target. Also, the smite effect isn't x/day as much as x targets/day-- you can keep smiting a single target until it's dead or a day passes. It's like paladins are awesome again!

[nyarlathotep]

It's been several years since I played 3.5, but I distinctly remember Smite X abilities being...not very good. Almost always strictly worse than investing in Power Attack and going Full Attack.

So, two questions. First, refresh my memory: can you use Smite X as part of a full attack? Second, if no, then is there any way to make a Smite-based build that isn't just terribly outclassed by a Fighter with Power Attack?

play a pathfinder paladin

[Dalek-K]

...Or you could switch to Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Smite-Evil-Su-) and be the best paladin you can be. + Cha to attack, and + your level to damage, PLUS a deflection bonus equal to Cha against your target. Also, the smite effect isn't x/day as much as x targets/day-- you can keep smiting a single target until it's dead or a day passes. It's like paladins are awesome again!

Pathfinder makes me want to play a paladin... that is how awesome it is.

*note: me = chaotic neutral/chaotic evil player most of the time (although I do dabble with good...)

[Narren]

Not sure if this helps or not, but didn't Forgotten Realms have a class (Divine Champion?) that allows you to smite anyone that isn't of your own faith?

[Quirp]

You could also use a binder with andras as one of your bound vestiges. He grants a smite attack 1/5 rounds against good and evil.

[SamsDisciple]

I must toot the pathfinder horn some more and mention the sorcadin rocks with the twin split ray scorching ray doing 12 attacks each getting smite bonuses. I did this Gestalt and it was freaking amazing!

[Amphetryon]

Old build is old:

Killoren, Charging Smite Variant Paladin
CHA>STR>CON>WIS>DEX>INT
(ex. STR 14 DEX 10 CON 13 Int 8 WIS 12 CHA 15)
Level 1: Power Attack, Sapphire Smite, Divine Might (Shaky, Murky-Eyed)
Level 3: Improved Smiting
Level 6: Extra Smiting
Level 9: Smite Fiery Foe
Level 12: Awesome Smite
Level 15: Smiting Power
Level 18: Leap Attack

[Ravens_cry]

...Or you could switch to Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin#TOC-Smite-Evil-Su-) and be the best paladin you can be. + Cha to attack, and + your level to damage, PLUS a deflection bonus equal to Cha against your target. Also, the smite effect isn't x/day as much as x targets/day-- you can keep smiting a single target until it's dead or a day passes. It's like paladins are awesome again!
And, you bypass ALL Damage Reduction. All. That DR And technically, smite isn't until a day passes, it is until you rest.
It's not exactly conventional for Paladins, but an archer makes an awesome paladin.