[3.5] Bard feats

[Keld Denar]

So, my Strongheart Glimmerskin Halfling Bard6/LyricThamateurge4 is just about to grow up and become a real Sublime Chord (taking actual SC levels, DM doesn't like the idea of using Virtuoso to progress SC, so whatever, I'll just eat it).

Feats so far are:

Flaw: Extra Music
1st: Dragonfire Inspiration
Human: Melodic Casting
3rd: Songs of the Heart
6th: Lyric Spell
9th: Heighten Spell

My current tactic is to fire up my Dragonfire Inspiration, then cast a Cloud of Knives (gained through LT secret) and then plink away with my sling or use Glitterdust or Solid Fog or whatever. I took Heighten Spell to abuse Sonic Might + Sonic Weapon, which is fun.

So, I've been thinking about my level 12, 15, and 18 feats. Given my penchant for Cloud of Knives, I'm considering Obtain Familiar, which I can share the CoK with for more DFI per round. Other choices I'm thinking about would be Rapid Metamagic at 12th so I can pick up Quicken Spell at 15th.

Books allowed are Core + Completes + BoED. I don't want to take Words of Creation, so don't suggest it. Don't ask about SotH and DFI, I got them before the DM put the book restriction in place (really, don't ask).

So yea, other than Obtain Familiar and some Metamagic, anyone have any thoughts? I don't really know which Sublime Chord spells I'll be picking, so I don't know if things like Split Ray would be worthwhile or not...so...yea...

[Keld Denar]

And...anyone?

[Waker]

Well, I don't really know too much about what kinda combat you guys get into, but Disguise Spell (CAdv) can be fun for getting the drop on people. Extraordinary Concentration and Spell Aim can both be fun for a spellcaster with the right spells. Lingering Song is excellent for the bard who likes to buff with his music. Subsonics could be amusing if you combine it with Disguise Spell and add in Sonic Might from Lyrical Thamaturge, enemies would be getting hit with sonic damage and have no idea where it's coming from. Dimensional Jaunt (CMag) is an excellent little feat, especially for a spontaneous caster, nothing wrong with having an at-will teleport. Knowledge Devotion (CCham) is always a popular choice for Bards and Factotums. Sound of Silence (CSco) can be cranked up to such an insanely high DC that you could probably deafen even arcane spellcasters, which has the added benefit of them possibly losing a spell. Warning Shout can be used to save the bacon of one of your teammates when they find themselves in the blast radius of a fireball.

That was just what I could find a with a quick search.

[Keld Denar]

I recently had a Hat of Disguise crafted, so I spend most of my time NOT looking like a halfling (stupid social stigmas).

I have Melodic Casting, and I generally don't mix and match songs, so Lingering Song wouldn't really be useful, I've thought about that pretty extensively.

Deafened only causes a 20% failure rate among spells, so that kind makes Sound of Silence pretty lackluster. I looked at it a while back, and yea...I have better things to do with my actions.

Invisible Spell from Cityscape could be fun, but its not from an approved source.

As much as Obtain Familiar would be cool, I think I'd be best off with Rapid Metamagic at 12 and Quicken Spell at 15 unless anyone else has any feedback?

[Elric VIII]

Force of Personality is always nice for the boost to Will saves in the late game. Replace Wis with Cha for your save modifier, and I tend to see Wis as a Bard dump stat (Unless you are a Divine Bard, in which case I recommend Zen Archery for some nice to-hit with your knives).

There's also Charming the Arrow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20030815a) which only applies to bow/crossbow damage, but you might be able to work with your DM to make one that works for thrown weapons (Charming the Dagger?)

Lingering Song is pretty good if you don't have Seeker of the Song or War Chanter in there. 10 rounds of music means that you start one, then immediately start another and will most likely have them both going for the whole combat.

I like to combine Lingering Song with a Warblade/Crusader dip and Song of the White Raven. When you can activate your musics as swift actions you can do the above strategy and also cast Cloud of Knives. Plus, the level 1 White Raven stance Bolstering Voice really fits in with the whole Bard thing. However, this bonus does not stack with IC (although it's constant and somethies better than IC).

EDIT: One thing to mention about Song of the White Raven, it says you can activate you music as a swift action. My group lets this mean that you can also choose to activate it as a standard action, in order to activate 2 musics in one round. I'm not sure if that is exactly RAW.

[Keld Denar]

ToB is out, so no SotWR. SotWR is kinda a trap though, as it keeps you from casting Inspirational Boost, which right now counts for 1/3 of my DFI damage (DM won't let me have a Badge of Valor, and I only have 6 actual bard levels and I don't use an instrument, so only 1 base + 1 SotH + 1 Inspirational Boost).

Force of Personality does look like a good idea though. My wis bonus is indeed -1, and with my +2 Cloak of Cha, I have a 23 Cha, so that would give me a net bonus of +7 on my will saves. Unfortunately, my fort save is so low I REALLY need to do something about that, like, a +4 at level 10, and it probably won't get much better on its own.

[Zaq]

Those are some pretty scary saves. Scary enough that I'm not sure that you'd actually be able to shore them up with feats alone. A +4 Fort at level 10? Let's take a vanilla (not very optimized) PC sorcerer at level 10. That's 5th level spells, call it a 24 CHA (16 base, +2 level, +6 item . . . reasonable by 10, I think) . . . that's a save DC of 22, meaning you need an 18. Ouch. At this point, I'd say you need the Diamond Mind save replacement maneuvers, but you said that ToB is off the table, which makes me very sad indeed. If you can get a Headband of Conscious Effort crafted for you, that'll give you at least one Fort save per day . . . you're a caster, so you have max Concentration, right? Heck, I'd say get two or three of 'em. They're cheap.

For feats, with a +4 Fort save, I'm not sure that feats alone will do the trick. Even taking Great Fortitude and Shape Soulmeld: Dragon Mantle will only snare you a +4 on top of that, which, while nothing to sneeze at, doesn't really compare to having two feats. If your GM is generous, maybe take (either as a spell known or with the feat Extra Spell) Wings of Cover, just to make yourself harder to target? It's sorc-only, so I don't think it's available by RAW, but it's worth asking.

Either way, you DO have Ruin Delver's Fortune, right? Get it.

[Tyndmyr]

For boosting fort, probably the best way is stacking con. It gives you other goodies as well. If MiC is on the table, find a handy, inexpensive item for one of the +CON slots if you don't yet have one. Then, enchant it with CON to the limits of your funds.

Note that you can also inexpensively get resistance bonuses to your saves in this way. A +1 to all saves is a mere 1000 G.

When you've got a 4, you need more than just feats.

[Draz74]

I'm actually not sure quickening is worth two feats (Rapid Metamagic and Quicken Spell). I might just prefer to use other action economy tricks if I were you (Belt of Battle, Arcane Spellsurge, Metamagic Rod of Quickening ...) Unless you can squeeze Metamagic Song into the build is well. Quickening is a lot more tempting when it just costs 4 Bardic Music uses.

So I guess that means Metamagic Song is my main recommendation, if you can meet its prerequisite.

Sculpt Spell is a nice little metamagic that I'm pretty sure will come in useful no matter what spells you pick.

Shame about ToB being out -- Song of the White Raven isn't that great, but if you have any chargers in your party, I think Martial Stance (Leading the Charge) is a very flavorful Bard ability. Lets you pick up White Raven Tactics with an item, too. Oh well.

Odd that the DM objects to Virtuoso. He does know that its class features are not all that hot, right? That the main reason it's better than more Sublime Chord levels is just a higher volume of skill points?

[Keld Denar]

He's one of those rather oldschoolish DMs who thinks that too many classes = bad RPing. I'm just gritting my teeth and bearing it, its otherwise a REALLY fun game.

MM Rods of Quicken don't work for spontaneous casters. Using a rod is the same as applying the feat, according to the rules in the DMG. Thus, it would quicken the spell down to a swift action, but then make it take a full round action anyway. Thats...not good.

Headband of Consious Effort...yea...not gonna work. I have Melodic Casting, which along with allowing you to cast spells while performing, it also means that you can make perform checks to cast defensively, and perform checks in place of concentation checks to avoid losing a spell if you take damage. So, in actuallity, I have 0 ranks in Concentration.

I might have mistakenly spoke, I have a +4 BASE save. I have a 16 Con (with a +2 item), so that gives me a +7. Still not good, though.

I know Superior Resistance is in the SpC, but was it reprinted from somewhere? I can only use SpC spells that were origionally printed in a Complete book. Thats gonna be my 1st 6th level SC spell, if it is. That'll help a TON!

[Amnestic]

I know Superior Resistance is in the SpC, but was it reprinted from somewhere? I can only use SpC spells that were origionally printed in a Complete book. Thats gonna be my 1st 6th level SC spell, if it is. That'll help a TON!

Superior Resistance was originally printed in Savage Species (pg. 71) I believe, and was a 5th level spell for everyone, but turned into a 6th level spell when it was updated for Spell Compendium.

[Elric VIII]

Sorry about the ToB, I completely missed the allowed books comment. Combat Panache is a nice tactical feat that allows you do debuff enemies with bluff and intimidate checks after they damage you or you damage them. Works very well with CoK, since it does not specify melee damage.

Another option for the fort save is trying to see if your DM will allow you to retrain your Bard levels as Savage Bard. It's from UA (I know it's not on your list, but it's worth a shot) and it makes you illiterate (as Barbarian), switches to good Fort save and poor Ref save, and exchanges some spells (most notably, Summon Monster for SNA).

Acquire Familiar is also a great option and I support the idea of sharing Cloud of Knives.

[Keld Denar]

One thing that would be nice, if I get a rat, would be the +2 fort saves, along with the free alertness. If I have to burn one feat, might as well get another one for free!

[dextercorvia]

I'm not sure if it came from somewhere, but do remember that Greater Resistance is his little brother at level 4... +3 is nothing to sneeze at. You might get by with a wand or a few scrolls until you get Sup. Resistance.

[Keld Denar]

Is it in a source that isn't SpC? I can't use spells in SpC unless they were a reprint from an allowed source, which is pretty much just the Completes, BoED, and the PHBII...

[Zaq]

Is it in a source that isn't SpC? I can't use spells in SpC unless they were a reprint from an allowed source, which is pretty much just the Completes, BoED, and the PHBII...

That's one of the weirdest book restrictions I've ever seen. Just throwing that out there.

[Lord_Gareth]

That's one of the weirdest book restrictions I've ever seen. Just throwing that out there.

No, it's called, "The DM doesn't own SpC." You'd be amazed how many broken builds get shut down IRL by simple lack of bookage.

[Zaq]

No, it's called, "The DM doesn't own SpC." You'd be amazed how many broken builds get shut down IRL by simple lack of bookage.

Who said anything about brokenness?

[dextercorvia]

Is it in a source that isn't SpC? I can't use spells in SpC unless they were a reprint from an allowed source, which is pretty much just the Completes, BoED, and the PHBII...

It was Major Resistance in Savage Species. It was a 2nd level spell, hr/level duration. You could get an eternal wand of that for practically nothing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Another vote for Lingering Song. It's just good action economy.

Also, Vest of Legends is good for another effective +1. If you can pick up a masterwork instrument for another +1, it'd be worth it.

If you're going for Sublime Chord, then you probably don't want to hear my suggestion to go into War Chanter for Song of the Legion, which, when as long as someone in the party has a full BAB, can lead to everyone having a full BAB. And can be twisted with DFI and IC together with Twin Song at WarChanter5.

Haste. Do you has it? It makes a perfect compliment to any Inspire Courage tactics, because it makes them more often applied.

Glibness, do you has it? +30 to bluff checks. Well, a recent comic strip pointed out just how completely broken it can be.

What are you plans for this character? Is he standing back and buffing the hell out of people? Is he casting the spells that make people fall down? Is he playing baby batman? What do you intend to do?

Data, Data, Data. I cannot make bricks without clay.

[dextercorvia]

<snip>
If you're going for Sublime Chord, then you probably don't want to hear my suggestion to go into War Chanter for Song of the Legion, which, when as long as someone in the party has a full BAB, can lead to everyone having a full BAB.

Even if they don't, unless your Char level is lower than everyone else's.