Volodni and LA

[LOTRfan]

So, I came across the Volodni race in Races of Faerun, and I like the general idea, but I dislike the LA of +2. I am considering giving them the Humanoid Plant subtype from the pathfinder srd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/oakling). This subtype changes the benefits of the Plant type, similar to the Living Construct subtype.

The Volodni would lose:
Immunity to mind affecting effects
Immunity to poison
Immunity to paralysis
Immunity to stunning
Immunity to polymorphing

The Volodni would retain:
Immunity to sleep effects

The Volodni would gain:
+2 bonus to saving throws against mind affecting effects
+2 bonus to saving throws against poison
+2 bonus to saving throws against paralysis
+2 bonus to saving throws against stunning
+2 bonus to saving throws against polymorphing

I can't really post the rest (as that stuff is racial traits, not type traits), but would this lower the Level Adjustment by one?

[holywhippet]

Is this for a game you are DMing or are you a player? If you are the DM it's your decision - but I'd think it would be reasonable to drop the LA by one, or even two since bonuses to save are a lot weaker than total immunity.

If you are a player it's up to your DM.

[LOTRfan]

I'm the DM. I wanted to get everyone else's opinion. The Volodni only has Level Adjustment +2, and it gets other bonuses, so I doubt I'll drop it to +0, but I wanted to get an outsider's opinion

So dropping it by one sounds reasonable?

[LibraryOgre]

If you're leaving them in 3.x, I'd lower it to +1. If you're going into PF, I'd put it at +0 with those changes.

[LOTRfan]

It will be 3.5, thanks for you're opinion.

Since two have expressed that opinion now, I'll lower them to LA +1. Thanks, guys.

[Zaydos]

I third the lower it oppinion, and can even say that Savage Species says that the Plant type is worth +1 LA due to the immunities it grants. One question, though, would they now be subject to critical hits?

[LOTRfan]

... the Oakling entry does not mention that they are immune to critical hits, so I don't think the Humanoid Plant subtype retains the immunity.

If they were immune to critical hits, though, would that make them too strong for LA +1?

[Zaydos]

... the Oakling entry does not mention that they are immune to critical hits, so I don't think the Humanoid Plant subtype retains the immunity.

If they were immune to critical hits, though, would that make them too strong for LA +1?

I'd say since it doesn't mention it, it's probably because it doesn't have it.

As for the other, I'd err on the safe side and not give it to them, but without seeing the rest of the racial abilities I couldn't make an informed judgment. I might look over everything and come back.

[LibraryOgre]

Personally, I see no reason for plants to be immune to critical hits, especially not humanoid plants. So I probably wouldn't include it.

[senrath]

The reason the Humanoid Plant type doesn't mention it is because the Plant type lost its immunity to crits in Pathfinder.

[LOTRfan]

Okay. That explains a lot. I'll keep the critical hit immunity removed, however, and keep 'em at LA +1.

[Boci]

Personally, I see no reason for plants to be immune to critical hits, especially not humanoid plants. So I probably wouldn't include it.

Pretty much. If we look at what a humanoid plant doesn't have that a humanoid would then the only real things are arteries and nerves, neither of with scream "default sneak attack targets" (I guess you could say plants have no muscles, but if they're moving they have some equivilant). I guess you could argue their body is laid out differently, but then how are you going to sneak attack a dragon?

[Zaydos]

Pretty much. If we look at what a humanoid plant doesn't have that a humanoid would then the only real things are arteries and nerves, neither of with scream "default sneak attack targets" (I guess you could say plants have no muscles, but if they're moving they have some equivilant). I guess you could argue their body is laid out differently, but then how are you going to sneak attack a dragon?

Well also plant cells aren't as differentiated in most cases as human cells, and they can de-differentiate entirely to allow regrowth. Actually would they have centralized nervous systems or organs as we think of them (liver, bladder, heart, lungs) because real-world plants don't. They literally don't have vitals, but they do have structural weak spots. So it depends is sneak attack stab him in the kidney, or break his kneecap?

[LibraryOgre]

Well also plant cells aren't as differentiated in most cases as human cells, and they can de-differentiate entirely to allow regrowth. Actually would they have centralized nervous systems or organs as we think of them (liver, bladder, heart, lungs) because real-world plants don't. They literally don't have vitals, but they do have structural weak spots. So it depends is sneak attack stab him in the kidney, or break his kneecap?

Since HP are abstract, a sneak attack that doesn't kill certainly can be... that smash to the knee may not KILL you (since it only did 8 damage and you're 3rd level), but it does definitely make you more vulnerable to being killed (slowing you down, leaving you to favor that knee). If D&D were a more lethal system, it would be represented with some sort of wound penalty (a penalty to AC or Dex or whatever); instead, it's just a HP penalty, which goes away when you're healed.