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Chilingsworth
2011-03-10, 08:33 PM
This is (mostly) a thought experiment.

Here are the rules:

Race: Human
Level: 10
32 point buy
Gold Resources: 47,300 gp that can be spent on anything (cannot spend more than 50% of this on a single item,) 5,300 gp that must be spent on expendable items (scrolls, potions, alchemicals, etc.)

Sources allowed: Core, Completes (minus Complete Champion,) Magic Item Compendium, Spell Compendium, Races of Destiny, Races of Stone, Races of the Wild, Tome of Battle, Magic of Incarnum, Expanded Psionic Handbook, Sandstorm, Human Paragon (and ONLY Human Paragon, nothing else from that book) from UA, Spellcasting Prodigy feat, Reinforced and Segmented masterwork armor qualities from Dragon #358

Houserules: Humans get a +1 and a -1 to each to an ability of the player's choice. These can be placed in the same ability for no net change. Dodge gives a flat +1 dodge bonus to AC, rather than against a single target.

The character will have to survive a very harsh desert enviornment, so this should be taken into consideration when planning armor choices.

Other than that, "survivability" would be defined as maximum HP, AC, and save bonuses, plus the presence of evasion and/or mettle abilities, plus anything that grants immunities. It's not nessicary to focus on all of these, however.

I don't really expect any usuable builds out of this, I'm just curious how much survivability is possible. I'm also currious how useful a "survivor" build would be for things other than absorbing hits.

Bonus Points if the build proves my expectations wrong and has near maximum survivability and can do lots of other things well.

SurlySeraph
2011-03-10, 09:24 PM
Survivability, eh? Not utility? My initial thought is to do an Ardent, boost its ML to something outrageous, and use something along the lines of this trick. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4198860&postcount=9) The issues are finding a way to get a steady flow of PP without Font of Power and boosting ML enough.

A more boring but practical build would be an Abjurer 2/ Master Specialist 7/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 1.

Chuckthedwarf
2011-03-10, 09:24 PM
Edit: Blah, didn't read fully... Coming with up something in a few moments...

Volos
2011-03-10, 09:31 PM
Step 1: Play a Druid
Step 2: Wild Shape into a desert animal
Step 3: Wait for life and death situation
Step 4: ???
Step 5: Profit!

But seriously, play a druid (the varriant found in sandstorm if you can get it), wild shape into desert animal, leave the gold in a pile somewhere as you will not need it, and win the game forever. Simpliest answer, hands down.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-10, 10:51 PM
This is (mostly) a thought experiment.

Here are the rules:

Race: Human
Level: 10
Gold Resources: 47,300 gp that can be spent on anything (cannot spend more than 50% of this on a single item,) 5,300 gp that must be spent on expendable items (scrolls, potions, alchemicals, etc.)

Sources allowed: Core, Completes (minus Complete Champion,) Magic Item Compendium, Spell Compendium, Races of Destiny, Races of Stone, Races of the Wild, Tome of Battle, Magic of Incarnum, Expanded Psionic Handbook, Sandstorm, Human Paragon (and ONLY Human Paragon, nothing else from that book) from UA, Spellcasting Prodigy feat, Reinforced and Segmented masterwork armor qualities from Dragon #358.

Well, we'll start out with one level of lion totem barb, followed by two levels of fighter. That'll get us uncanny dodge, pounce(for actually being effective), and two bonus feats. Then we'll duck into human paragon for one level. We take a break for a one level dip into sorc, then back into human paragon for two more levels Another bonus feat, and a +2, which we'll slap into con, for a ridiculous fort save and lots o' hp. We finish this off with thee levels of dragon disciple.

Unfortunately, it looks like feat rogue is not in the approved list above. Damn shame. I don't know what stats you have, which is unfortunately important, but I'll assume 32 point buy, which, after the house ruled modifiers, gets me this:

Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

After putting all +4 bonus stats into con, he'll have a 20 in that, and his str will be boosted to a 16 by DD.

I could optimize saves slightly more, but we're keeping him effective.

Hp 12(maxed first hp) + 50(con) + 3d12 +2d10 +3d8 = average of 106 hp before gear, buffs, and feats which is fairly respectable for level 10.

His base saves are as follows:
Fort: +5(Con) +2(barb) +3(ftr) +1(h par) +3(DD) = +14
Ref: +2(Dex) +1(h par) +1(DD) = +4
Will: +3(Wis) +2(sorc) +1(h par) +3(DD) = +9

This puts him with the usual great fort save of front liners, but substantial boosts to the normally shoddy, but all important will save.

Our man uses a halberd or other reach weapon of your choice, since his natural claws and bite fill the hole in the donut. This allows him a nice threatening ring without blowing feats on exotic weapon proficiencies and the like. As a side benefit, he casts as a Sorc 3, so he can load up on the long term buffs of your choice and can automatically pass CL checks to use wands for second level spells. For color, lets pick one of the ones that correlates to acid. Having an immunity to that later is handy. This gives us a breath weapon to play with. For his familiar, he takes a weasel, shoring up reflex.

Now, lets move on to feats. He has a human bonus feat, a paragon bonus feat, four normal feats from leveling, and two fighter bonus feats. Not bad.

We use one of those fighter bonus feats on improved toughness, for extra hp, and the other one on Lightning Reflexes to shore up his weak save.

His unrestricted six feats are spent as follows:
Lucky Start(+1 luck point) - Going first makes you more likely to survive than going last. Lets not worry about being flat footed and things.
Unbelievable Luck(+2 luck points) - +2 to worst save. We'll say reflex at the time it's picked.
Tempting Fate(+1 luck) - Can reroll stab checks. This is not important. What is important is the other ability it grants. Spend a luck point 1/day to NOT DIE.
Miser's Fortune(+1 luck) - +5 to item saves, and can force opponents to reroll sunder attacks. Basically, your items will never die.
Survivor's Luck(+1 luck) - You can now reroll failed saves. Just in case.
Dumb Luck(+1 luck) - You can now make natural 1s on saves count as natural 20s. What....you didn't think we were going to leave anything to chance, did you?

I believe we now have saves ridiculously well covered.

Fort: +14
Ref: +10
Will: +9

Any failure that's a 1 gets a single luck point burned to turn it into a success. Any other failure burns one to reroll it. Consecutive failures that are not 1s that would kill you are solved by Survivor's luck. You have a lot of luck points, too, and since your saves are better than your items, and they get straight +5s...your items are also safe.

Now, lets move on to items.

He's got a halberd. It's lovely. It has a wand socket, and a wand of wings of cover inside. This dispenses with the first attack directed at you every single round. Enjoy. This is a whopping what, 2kish gold? Regardless, wands come out of the consumables budget. Not worried about them.

He's also wearing a belt of battle. This not only gives him more actions, allowing him to end threats quicker, or if need be, run away, it's enchanted per MiC rules, with a +4 con bonus(16k gold) and a +2 Str bonus for 4k gold. This should drop it at about 23k, just under half.

He also has a Dusty Rose Ioun Stone and a brooch of shielding. That's another 6500 gold for the two, which gets him a +1 insight bonus to AC and immunity to magic missile, so he won't need to use wings of cover for everything. I believe we've burned through about 29.5k gold so far.

Now we purchase goggles of the golden sun, gloves of the starry sky, and periapt of the sullen sea. This, in addition to other fun abilities, gets us immunity to blinding, dazzling, effective immunity to drowning, and cold, electricity resist 5. This costs us another 13,100 gold, for a total of roughly 43k burned. Note that if bought as enchantments, the resistances alone would cost us 8k.

Lets toss in Armband of Illusive Action for 800, to avoid pesky AoOs.

For the remaining funds, we'll purchase him some inexpensive armor. +1 Mithril shirt = 2,100. A +1 resistance bonus to saving throws. Just in case our previous save optimization wasn't quite enough. After all, it's only 1k gold. We're at 3,100, so about 2k left. Drop that on upgrading the halberd to +1, and you're done.

Final Saves:

Fort: +17
Ref: +11
Will: +10

Basically, if it has a save, he's going to make it. If it targets him, he can wings of cover it. Just in case, he has resistances, and a bit of AC. If it gets through that, he's running 136 hp normally, and he has an array of luck feats to escape things.

Plus, as a sorc, he'll have cantrips and spells that I didn't even bother with. Those are nice too.

Chilingsworth
2011-03-10, 11:00 PM
Lion Totem Barbarian is also out: No complete champion allowed.

And yes, 32 point buy is correct, I'll add that to the OP.

Zaq
2011-03-10, 11:07 PM
Hmmm. Incarnates make very good survivors. They get the earliest (or close to it) access to a lot of immunities, and it's pretty easy for them (especially Good incarnates) to boost AC and DR. Saves are slightly trickier, but we can find other ways to do that.

CyMage
2011-03-10, 11:15 PM
Pal2/Mnk1/Sorc6/AbjCh1 Ascetic Mage with heavy Charisma/Con focus. If you go Battle or Stalwart Sorcerer , you can get into AbjChampion earlier at the cost of spells. Not being able to use Fractional BAB from UA kinda sucks in this case.

Spelldancer would be nice as well, but it's not on the book list.
Sacred Excorcist for Turn Undead with Law Devotion or others.

dspeyer
2011-03-11, 02:43 AM
While it may not have the best numbers, I tend toward druid. Endure Elements and Create Water take care of the "desert" problem early. An eagle companion can watch for danger so you aren't surprised. Wings, gills, burrowing, natural armor and camouflage as needed. Healing spells just in case. If you concentrate on summoning, you don't even need to come near your enemies!

A dip in MoMF gets you speech while you wild shape, which is vital if you're part of a party and want to spend your time transformed. More MoMF gives you nifty abilities, but none are vital.

A dip in swordsage gives you diamond mind counters for your saves, shadow jaunt to escape and flame's blessing stance just in case someone uses fire on you. Two levels gives you wis-to-ac and another stance (concealment whenever you move, perhaps).

Keeping the dips limited gives you higher level spells, always handy.

Equipment can be a problem. Are wilding clasps in one of those books?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-03-11, 02:59 AM
I'll agree that a Druid will be made of pure win for this, but I'll take it one step further and present a build:

Human Druid 9/ Warblade 1, Sandstorm ACFs for Druid, Warblade 1 taken at his 9th character level.

HD: 9d8+1d12+30 (80 HP average, 85 HP half-plus-one, 114 HP max)

Abilities (human form)
Str 8
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 20 (18 base, +2 levels)
Cha 8

Skill Ranks: Listen 13, Spot 13, Hide 11, Move Silently 12, Concentration 13, Kn: Nature 8, Handle Animal 8, Survival 6, Balance 5, Tumble 2

Feats: Iron Will (OH), Heat Endurance (H), Scorpion's Resolve (SS) (1), Sandskimmer (D2), Scorpion's Sense (SS) (3), Improved Heat Endurance (D4), Natural Spell (6), Scorpion's Instincts (SS) (9)

Saves (human form)
Fort +14 (+8 base, +3 Con, +3 Resistance)
Reflex +6 (+3 base, -1 Dex, +3 Resistance, +1 Battle Clarity)
Will +16 (+6 base, +5 Wis, +2 Iron Will, +3 Resistance) (+4 vs Mind-Affecting)

Expendable Items (5,800 gp):
Otyugh Hole visit, expended for Iron Will (CS, 3,000 gp)
Wand of Lesser Vigor, 30 charges (DMG+SpC, 450 gp)
Contingent Spell: Protection from Evil (CA, CL 1, 100 gp)
Contingent Spell: Feather Fall (CA, CL 2, 200 gp)
Contingent Spell: Deep Breath (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Contingent Spell: Faith Healing (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Contingent Spell: Swift Invisibility (CA+SpC, Bard crafter, CL 2, 200 gp)
Contingent Spell: Horrible Taste (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Contingent Spell: Remove Fear (CA, CL 1, 100 gp)
Contingent Spell: Remove Paralysis (CA, CL 3, 600 gp)
Contingent Spell: Lesser Restoration (CA, CL 3, 600 gp)
3x Psionic Tattoo: Chameleon (XPH, Psychic Warrior crafter, ML 1, 50 gp ea, 150 gp)

Contingent Spell Specifics:
Contingent Spell: Protection from Evil (CA, CL 1, 100 gp)
Triggered any time he falls under any type of a Charm- or Compulsion-type effect.

Contingent Spell: Feather Fall (CA, CL 2, 200 gp)
Triggered any time he is falling and the ground is more than 60 feet away.

Contingent Spell: Deep Breath (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Triggered any time he would fall unconscious due to suffocation or drowning.

Contingent Spell: Faith Healing (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Triggered any time he falls unconscious due to loss of hit points or nonlethal damage.

Contingent Spell: Swift Invisibility (CA+SpC, Bard crafter, CL 2, 200 gp)
Triggered any time he is caught unawares by an enemy (any time there's a surprise round in which he doesn't get to act).

Contingent Spell: Horrible Taste (CA+SpC, CL 1, 100 gp)
Triggered any time he is bitten by a creature capable of swallowing him whole.

Contingent Spell: Remove Fear (CA, CL 1, 100 gp)
Triggered any time he becomes Frightened or Panicked.

Contingent Spell: Remove Paralysis (CA, CL 3, 600 gp)
Triggered any time he is rendered paralyzed by an effect this would remove.

Contingent Spell: Lesser Restoration (CA, CL 3, 600 gp)
Triggered any time one of his ability scores is reduced to 0 by an ability penalty or ability damage.

Permanent Items (41,500 gp):
Necklace of Adaptation (DMG, 9,000 gp)
Monk's Bracer (As Monk's Belt, DMG 288 sidebar, 13,000 gp)
+1 Armor bonus upgrade to bracers (MIC, 1,000 gp)
+1 Enhancement bonus to current armor bonus (DMG, 1,000 gp)
Ring of Sustenance (DMG, 2,500 gp)
Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell (DMG, 3,000 gp)
Spell Focus: Omen of Peril (SpC, 25 gp)
Peasant's Outfit
2 pp, 4 gp, 9 sp

Item Placement:
Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Attached to the necklace.

Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Attached to the bracers.

Wilding Clasp (MIC, 4,000 gp)
Attached to the ring.

Necklace of Adaptation (DMG, 9,000 gp)
Worn around the neck.

Monk's Bracer (As Monk's Belt, DMG 288 sidebar, 13,000 gp)
Worn on his left wrist, this is made from what appears to be tattered cloth wrappings, so there are numerous tattered pieces of fabric hanging from it. It does not meld into his form and 'continue to function' when wild shaped, one such function is to carry other items.

+1 Armor bonus upgrade to bracers (MIC, 1,000 gp)
Additional property added to the bracers.

+1 Enhancement bonus to current armor bonus (DMG, 1,000 gp)
Additional property added to the bracers.

Ring of Sustenance (DMG, 2,500 gp)
Worn on the middle toe of his left foot.

Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend Spell (DMG, 3,000 gp)
Tied into the wrappings of his bracer.

Wand of Lesser Vigor, 30 charges (DMG+SpC, 450 gp)
Tucked into the wrappings of his bracer.

Spell Focus: Omen of Peril (SpC, 25 gp)
Tucked into the wrappings of his bracer.

2 pp, 4 gp, 9 sp
Securely tucked into a twisted cloth strip of his bracer.

Druid Spells:
Druid Spells Prepared (Caster Level 4): 6/6/5/4/3/2, DC 14 + Spell Level
0- Create Water x2, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Mending, Light
1st- Camouflage (SpC) x3, Longstrider*, Faerie Fire, Omen of Peril* (SpC)
2nd- Hydrate (SS) x2, Chill Metal, Spider Climb, Protection from Dessication
3rd- Greater Magic Fang*, Swift Fly (SpC), Meld Into Stone, Wind Wall
4th- Greater Resistance* (SpC), Sandform (SS), Bite of the Wereboar (SpC)
5th- Death Ward, Wall of Thorns
* Already cast: Longstrider (Lesser Rod of Extend) 18 hours; Greater Magic Fang (Lesser Rod of Extend) +1 all natural weapons, 18 hours; Greater Resistance 24 hours; Omen of Peril to know what to expect each day.

Maneuvers and Stances (Initiator Level 5):
Stances Known: Hunter's Sense (Tiger Claw)
Maneuvers Known: Sudden Leap (Tiger Claw), Wall of Blades (Iron Heart), Iron Heart Surge (Iron Heart)
Maneuvers Readied: those same three.

Class Features, etc.: Scent (stance), Trackless Step (LOL SAND), Venom Immunity (all poisons)

Serval animal form (Sandstorm) typical all-day form:
Str 12
Dex 17
Con 13

Speed 50 ft.

AC 23 (+2 Armor, +6 Monk, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Natural), Touch AC 20, Flat-Footed 20

Saves
Fort +12 (+8 base, +1 Con, +3 Resistance)
Reflex +10 (+3 base, +3 Dex, +3 Resistance, +1 Battle Clarity)
Will +16 (+6 base, +5 Wis, +2 Iron Will, +3 Resistance) (+4 vs Mind-Affecting)

Balance +12 (5 ranks, +3 Dex, +4 race)
Climb +5 (+1 Str, +4 race)
Hide +24 (+26 in sand, +28 in tall grass) (11 ranks, +3 Dex, +4 Size, +2/4 Scorpion's Instincts, +4 race/+8 race)
Move Silently +19 (+21 in sand) (12 ranks, +3 Dex, +4 race, +0/+2 Scorpion's Instincts)
Jump +19 (+3 Dex, +8 race, +8 speed)
Listen +26 (13 ranks, +5 Wis, +8 race)
Spot +18 (13 ranks, +5 Wis)
Tumble +5 (2 ranks, +3 Dex)
Survival +13 (6 ranks, +5 Wis, +2 Nature Sense)
Kn: Nature +12 (8 ranks, +2 Int, +2 Nature Sense)

Dire Vulture form (Sandstorm) for flight/travel:
Str 16
Dex 13
Con 25

Speed 20 ft., fly 80 ft. average

AC 25 (+2 Armor, +6 Monk, +1 Dex, -1 Size, +7 Natural), Touch AC 16, Flat-Footed 24

Saves
Fort +18 (+8 base, +7 Con, +3 Resistance)
Reflex +8 (+3 base, +1 Dex, +3 Resistance, +1 Battle Clarity)
Will +16 (+6 base, +5 Wis, +2 Iron Will, +3 Resistance) (+4 vs Mind-Affecting)

Stench (Ex): Scraps of rotting flesh cling to a dire
vulture's feathers, and the fetid wind of its wings can
fell even the hardiest opponent. A creature within 20
feet of a dire vulture must succeed on a DC 27 Fortitude
save or be sickened for 1d6 rounds. A creature
that successfully saves can't be affected by that dire
vulture's stench ability for 24 hours. The save DC is
Constitution-based.

He has a tool for pretty much any situation. Ring of Sustenance + Improved Heat Endurance means he can go on forever. Trackless Step + Sandskimmer + Scent + Stealth + Spot/Listen + Scorpion's Sense/Instincts means it will be extremely hard to catch him off guard, or even catch him at all. Sudden Leap + Iron Heart Surge + Contingent Spells + Venom Immunity + Spells + Wild Shape leaves few situations he cannot escape from or even be threatened by. His defenses are good enough to survive an initial attack, and he can take a strong offensive form (Dire Lion, Smilodon (FB), etc.) with Bite of the Wereboar and other spells to fight off his opponents, use Chill Metal to convince an enemy to drop his weapon, or simply escape. His HP, Saves, and AC are somewhat mediocre but most often they won't even come into play. Plus he gets an animal companion which I haven't even considered.

Tyndmyr
2011-03-11, 12:54 PM
Lion Totem Barbarian is also out: No complete champion allowed.

And yes, 32 point buy is correct, I'll add that to the OP.

Eh, in that case, drop it for another level of DD. No loss in hp, shuffle 1 from fort over to will, add 2 str and another natural armor.

Should still be fairly tough. Loss of one of the easiest ways to get pounce is unfortunate from an offensive standpoint, but you should still have enough stacked strength to lay out respectable hits with reach.