[3.5] Spells Known: All

[tuesdayscoming]

I stumbled on the skypledged prc from RotW today, and nearly pooped myself reading the Divine Spellpool ability. Access to all cleric AND druid spells for a paltry 7 level investment? Sign me up! Then I realized that it gives access only to those spells in the Players Handbook... Boo...

It got the ol' wheels turning, though, and now I want to find a way (barring PunPun style cheese) to have access to literally every spell, regardless of class list.

Mage of the Arcane Order is a good start, and covers the lions share of the arcane side. It still leaves out, say, the assassin-only spells, though. That just won't do.

Is anyone aware of an existing build that manages to pull this off? Or, alternatively, does anyone know of a few other classes/feats/what-have-you that will help us build towards this? Or is this an impossible dream that I would be better off dropping now before Im too invested?

[The-Mage-King]

Rainbow Warsnake. All warmage spells, and all cleric spells. Spontaneously cast.

[Thurbane]

Spell to Power Erudite.

Archivist also comes close.

[arguskos]

Spell to Power Erudite.
Can have every power and every spell ever printed (with one exception). This is pretty much it.

The exception is that I don't believe there's a way to get the artifact spells as an Erudite (you lack spell slots for them).


Archivist also comes close.
Depending on how you read Southern Magician, it can be used by an allied wizard, sorcerer, assassin, and hexblade (each need the feat) to scribe divine versions of all of their list-exclusive spells, which are pretty much the only thing Archivist's can't naturally access. If you let that fly, than Archivist is the guy who can get everything.

[Sdonourg]

I've heard that Sha'ir can do this, but I may be wrong.

[Silva Stormrage]

Can have every power and every spell ever printed (with one exception). This is pretty much it.

The exception is that I don't believe there's a way to get the artifact spells as an Erudite (you lack spell slots for them).


Depending on how you read Southern Magician, it can be used by an allied wizard, sorcerer, assassin, and hexblade (each need the feat) to scribe divine versions of all of their list-exclusive spells, which are pretty much the only thing Archivist's can't naturally access. If you let that fly, than Archivist is the guy who can get everything.

Wait one thing I never got was how the Spell to Power Erudite got access to 9th lvl druid spells. I could never find a way to get them to arcane spells. How do they do it?

[Ravens_cry]

Gestalt Archivist//Wizard?,You will get everything but sorcerer only spells if your DM is lenient.

[RTGoodman]

Actually, if you allow Gestalt you should be good with a StP Erudite//Archivist. The Erudite side can learn any Psion power AND any arcane spell (it doesn't limit it to Sorcerer/Wizard spells), and Archivist can learn any divine spell assuming you can get a scroll of it somewhere. Heck, if there some sort of Psionic/Divine dual-progression PrC, you probably don't need Gestalt.

[IthroZada]

Artificer! Granted they would be in some form of item, be it wand, scroll, staff, wondrous item, or spell storing item.

[The-Mage-King]

Oorrr,,, just Archivist. Since you can scribe any divine scroll into your prayerbook, and the primary crafter of a scroll determines it's type...

Just work with an artificer. You now can use any spell, given three days.

[FMArthur]

Actually, if you allow Gestalt you should be good with a StP Erudite//Archivist. The Erudite side can learn any Psion power AND any arcane spell (it doesn't limit it to Sorcerer/Wizard spells), and Archivist can learn any divine spell assuming you can get a scroll of it somewhere. Heck, if there some sort of Psionic/Divine dual-progression PrC, you probably don't need Gestalt.

Psychic Theurge. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) Might not be possible to get dual 9s though; the class only goes 10 levels and I can't think of any early entry trick to get in with only 1 or 2 erudite levels - Archivist being behind by 3 means that the advancement loss in Legacy Champion bumps it down to 16th level casting at the end.

[RTGoodman]

Psychic Theurge. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) Might not be possible to get dual 9s though; the class only goes 10 levels and I can't think of any early entry trick to get in with only 1 or 2 erudite levels - Archivist being behind by 3 means that the advancement loss in Legacy Champion bumps it down to 16th level casting at the end.

Dang. Well, I guess I can't hope for a SECOND dual-progression psionic/divine PrC, can I? :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[faceroll]

StP Erudite can't do it unless you find a way to effectively cast 10th level powers, and pre-epic, the only way I know how to do that is with the 3.0 Metamind prc from dragon 313. Due to the way psionics works in 3.5, stuff like earth power won't work, when earth spell would if it was an arcane caster.

The problem is that spells count as discipline powers, which means they can only be learned up to one level lower than the highest level power he can manifest.

[dextercorvia]

Human Spellthief1/Bard4/Chameleon10/X5

where X is an arcane spellcasting class -- Sublime Chord would be fine.

Feats: Able Learner, Heighten Spell, Talfirian Song, Extra Music, Sanctum Spell, Extra Slot (As many as you can, but one will do.), Master Spellthief

Caster Level = Yes (Without sublime chord CL shenanigans, that is a CL of 40 for chameleon spells.)
Talfirian Song lets you spend bardic music usages to heigthen illusion spells (up to 9th). Sanctum lets you take that one more to 10th. Extra Slot gives you a slot one lower than the highest you can cast. Chameleon can prepare any arcane or divine spell in the game (if he gets access to the arcane ones). Chameleon Floating feat can be used for Extra Spell, so that he can scribe any arcane spell into his book.

[Cartigan]

It got the ol' wheels turning, though, and now I want to find a way (barrin PunPun style cheese to have access to literally every spell, regardless of class list.

So instead of fancy, expensive cheeses, you are limiting it to basic American cheese that comes in that plastic wrapper and is an odd shade of yellow?

[tuesdayscoming]

Wonderful stuff. Thanks, ladies and gents!


Human Spellthief1/Bard4/Chameleon10/X5

Feats: Able Learner, Heighten Spell, Talfirian Song, Extra Music, Sanctum Spell, Extra Slot (As many as you can, but one will do.), Master Spellthief
...
Talfirian Song lets you spend bardic music usages to heigthen illusion spells (up to 9th). Sanctum lets you take that one more to 10th. Extra Slot gives you a slot one lower than the highest you can cast. Chameleon can prepare any arcane or divine spell in the game (if he gets access to the arcane ones). Chameleon Floating feat can be used for Extra Spell, so that he can scribe any arcane spell into his book.

THIS is win. I never realized the Chameleon had such ridiculous potential as a spell caster. Granted, it takes some shenanigans, but its pretty much exactly the key I was looking for. The floating feat Extra Spell trick is the perfect icing on this tasty, tasty cake. Almost as if it was made specifically for this purpose :smallbiggrin:

Is there a reason that getting the higher level spells needs to be so convoluted, though? What's to stop me, say, from just using Versatile Spellcaster + Extra Slot?

[mikau013]

Rainbow Warsnake. All warmage spells, and all cleric spells. Spontaneously cast.

How does this work? As I read it, warmage can only learn spells off his own spell casting list and thus never learn any of the cleric spells? Since rainbow servant doesn't add the spells to his casting list?

[Lateral]

The problem is that spells count as discipline powers, which means they can only be learned up to one level lower than the highest level power he can manifest.

Since when? I'm not reading that anywhere in the rules. :smallconfused:

@Mikau: Actually, it does.

[Jack_Simth]

Depending on how you read Southern Magician, it can be used by an allied wizard, sorcerer, assassin, and hexblade (each need the feat) to scribe divine versions of all of their list-exclusive spells, which are pretty much the only thing Archivist's can't naturally access. If you let that fly, than Archivist is the guy who can get everything.
You don't need the feat.

You use the cooperation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites)

The Archivist collaborates, putting Scribe Scroll into the requirements listing for making the scroll.

The other caster collaborates by putting in the desired spell.

The Archivist is considered the creator, and pays the XP.

Now, you'll need a little rule buried in Activating Scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell): "(The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)"

Now that we've done this:
We've put an arbitrary-class spell onto a scroll.
The Creator of the Scroll is Divine.
You now have a Divine Scroll of an Arbitrary Spell.
The Archivist can scribe a scroll of *any* Divine spell into the Archivist's Prayerbook.

Congrats: You now have the potential to have literally *any* spell in your prayerbook. You just need to convince someone who has it to collaborate on a scroll of it, and then you need to scribe it into your prayerbook.

There is no restriction that you be able to cast the spell in order to scribe it into your prayerbook - you just need to pass the spellcraft check. So theoretically, you can have any spell in your prayerbook starting at level 1.

Is this sufficient to your needs?

[mikau013]

<snip>

How does this work? As I read it, warmage can only learn spells off his own spell casting list and thus never learn any of the cleric spells? Since rainbow servant doesn't add the spells to his casting list?

@Mikau: Actually, it does.

It doesn't in my version of the book at least, has it been erratad?

- Editted for clarification

[dextercorvia]

It doesn't in my version of the book at least, has it been erratad?

- Editted for clarification

The Warmage knows all of the spells on his class list. So when spells are added to his class list, it isn't like Sorcerer, who still has to learn them, he just knows them.


Is there a reason that getting the higher level spells needs to be so convoluted, though? What's to stop me, say, from just using Versatile Spellcaster + Extra Slot?

I made it that convoluted so that you could get nines in one shot, rather than having to get two sevens, to get two eights... There are plenty of other ways to do it.

[The-Mage-King]

How does this work? As I read it, warmage can only learn spells off his own spell casting list and thus never learn any of the cleric spells? Since rainbow servant doesn't add the spells to his casting list?

The part where it says that they can learn those spells. Meaning that they're on the Class Spell list. That's what most of the build is based on.

[mikau013]

The Warmage knows all of the spells on his class list. So when spells are added to his class list, it isn't like Sorcerer, who still has to learn them, he just knows them.

Actually they aren't added to his class list


The part where it says that they can learn those spells. Meaning that they're on the Class Spell list. That's what most of the build is based on.
It actually specifically says they can prepare them from the cleric spell list, and the warmage only knows the spells from the warmage spell list. Different spell lists thus he wouldn't know them automatically

[Cadian 9th]

Archivist gets access to the following:

Druid 1-9th (Druid)
Adept 1-6th (Adept)
Cleric 1-9th (Cleric)
All Domains 1-9th (Cleric)
All Spells on Initiate Feats (Cleric and Druid initiate feats)
Wizard 1-6th (Lyric Thamateruge, adds spells to (Divine) Bard spell list)
Sorcerer 1-6th (Lyric Thamateruge)
Wizard/Sorcerer Necromancy, Divination and Abjuration 1-9th (Divine Magician ACF)
Bard 1-6th (Divine Bard)
Nenytar Hunter 1-4th (Nenytar Hunter)
Any PrC divine list
Paladin 1-4th (Paladin, all variants)
Healer All (Healer)
Shugenja 1-9th (Shugenja)
Shugenja Order spells 1-9th (Shugenja)
Shaman (OA) 1-9th (Shaman)

Once you move into Dragonmag and methods such as Southern Magician, Warlock Item creation, etc, you literally have any spell. The power of the Archivist, IMO, is that you have access to spells at lower levels. For example, I almost find it mandatory to select an Archivist in a game where we'll be fighting creatures at least 4 CR higher than we should be, as you get the healing/defence spells that make those encounters bearable. (E.g. Remove Blindness/Deafness, Neutralize Poison, Restoration).

[Thurbane]

The Draconic Legacy (RotD) feat can add some specific arcane spells to a Favored Soul's spells known...Otiluke’s resilient sphere, phantasmal killer, disintegrate etc. Takes a heavy feat investment to acquire, however.

[Salbazier]

The exception is that I don't believe there's a way to get the artifact spells as an Erudite (you lack spell slots for them).


.
Artifact spells is dragon right? What edition they are again?

Oorrr,,, just Archivist. Since you can scribe any divine scroll into your prayerbook, and the primary crafter of a scroll determines it's type...

Just work with an artificer. You now can use any spell, given three days.

Artificer-made scroll is neither arcane or divine.

[The-Mage-King]

Artificer-made scroll is neither arcane or divine.

The rules for multiple crafters disagree.

[JaronK]

It got the ol' wheels turning, though, and now I want to find a way (barring PunPun style cheese) to have access to literally every spell, regardless of class list.

Archivist.

Seriously, it gets any Divine spell... but all spells have a divine version (or nearly so). For example, there's a divine Bard variant in UA, the Hexer PrC adds any Sor/Wiz spell as a divine spell to your spell list if you're a Cleric, and so on. Another poster has put up a good list so far, but there's more if you look around.

Once you can show that the spell exists, you can research it. According to the DMG, researching a duplicate of any existing spell takes all of one day and twice the cost of having an NPC cast the spell (DMG 198).

You'll still miss a few spells (you can't get the Trapsmith spells as early as the Trapsmith gets them, nor can you get Greater Harm) but you've got pretty much everything, no multiclassing needed.

JaronK

[Tyndmyr]

Gestalt Archivist//Wizard?,You will get everything but sorcerer only spells if your DM is lenient.

Alternative source spell

[Cadian 9th]

The rules for multiple crafters disagree.

The errata/FaQs specifically call out Artificer scrolls as neither Arcane nor Divine, so you might have DM issues with that.

Furthermore, I can't find this Arcane/Divine creation multiple crafters thing. Can someone point it out to me, the specific page reference, or is it just an inference?

[The-Mage-King]

The errata/FaQs specifically call out Artificer scrolls as neither Arcane nor Divine, so you might have DM issues with that.

Furthermore, I can't find this Arcane/Divine creation multiple crafters thing. Can someone point it out to me, the specific page reference, or is it just an inference?

The place in the DMG item creation rule where it says, directly quoted from the SRD...


Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

So, the Archivist scribes a divine scroll of fireball, and the Artificer provides the 'Fireball-ness' needed to make it. Simple.

[Cadian 9th]

But the spell's type is determined by the caster, correct?

My logic is lead on by the fact that a caster with the, for example, Enhanced Shadow Reality feat casts his spells enhanced by that feat - it's not the spell that's doing that, it's the caster's abilities. Ergo, an Arcane caster providing an Arcane fireball makes the spell on the scroll Arcane - not divine.

Also, more specifically:


The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

Specific beats general, just saying. Please come up with a good argument, so I can show it to my DM and say " This. " :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

Even without Artificer, I can't really think of any arcane spells that couldn't be scribed as divine using Southern Magician or Alternate Spell Source. And then there's the Dragon Pool location...

[The-Mage-King]

But the spell's type is determined by the caster, correct?

My logic is lead on by the fact that a caster with the, for example, Enhanced Shadow Reality feat casts his spells enhanced by that feat - it's not the spell that's doing that, it's the caster's abilities. Ergo, an Arcane caster providing an Arcane fireball makes the spell on the scroll Arcane - not divine.

Also, more specifically:



Specific beats general, just saying. Please come up with a good argument, so I can show it to my DM and say " This. " :smallbiggrin:


A good arguement for why it works?

Would you like it in mechanical or fluff terms?

[Jack_Simth]

The errata/FaQs specifically call out Artificer scrolls as neither Arcane nor Divine, so you might have DM issues with that.

Furthermore, I can't find this Arcane/Divine creation multiple crafters thing. Can someone point it out to me, the specific page reference, or is it just an inference?
I actually linked the SRD, if you look up a bit (cooperation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites) and Activating Scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell): "The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class."). Is there a specific reason you need a page reference?


But the spell's type is determined by the caster, correct?Nope. It's determined by the creator of the scroll. Which, if the Warlock involved doesn't have Scribe Scroll, while the Archivist does, can be the Archivist - if the Archivist is up to paying the XP to make the scroll.

[faceroll]

Since when? I'm not reading that anywhere in the rules. :smallconfused:

I suggest re-reading the rules, then. All relevant rules are in the two Mind's Eye articles on the WotC website.

[Cadian 9th]

I actually linked the SRD, if you look up a bit (cooperation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites) and Activating Scrolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell): "The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class."). Is there a specific reason you need a page reference?

Nope. It's determined by the creator of the scroll. Which, if the Warlock involved doesn't have Scribe Scroll, while the Archivist does, can be the Archivist - if the Archivist is up to paying the XP to make the scroll.

I was talking about when a spell is cast - when an arcane spellcaster casts an arcane spell, it's arcane.


Many spells are either arcane or divine, depending on the class of the caster. Such spells appear on both lists at the level appropriate to the class of the arcane or divine caster.

I'm reading Arcane/Divine is based on the caster, not the crafter.


The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself.

I'm confident that DnD operates under the Specific beats General global rule - so despite the rules regarding cooperative creation, the rules for " the creator must know/have the spell prepared to make the scroll " trump that. Sure, you could have another character providing something else, like the materials, but the item's divine/arcane isn't going to change based on who crafted it - and all the conclusions made on the opposite being true seem to be citing the fact that a divine caster creating a scroll of an arcane spell makes a divine scroll of an arcane spell, which I can't find anywhere.

It's a scroll of an Arcane spell. Not a Divine scroll of a spell. Divine and Arcane magic are laid out as being different, in the core rules, so I don't see how magic from the gods suddenly trumps the fact that the arcane caster casts his arcane spell. Also, why do the rules refer to the fact that divine casters/arcane casters find their counterpart scrolls useless? If WotC intended for the players to make the inference, why have that tidbit lurking around? Why wouldn't they clarify on it?

In fact, why don't we ask WotC - I highly doubt the multiple crafter rules are intended to somehow change the spell type.

Furthermore, even if the scroll is divine, the spell is still arcane. So, yes, a divine caster can use it, but it's still an arcane spell. Show me the clause where it says " If an arcane spell cast by an arcane spellcaster is used to create a divine scroll, it becomes a divine spell. " and I'll be quiet, show it to my DM and go " Here, so I'll be learning these spells to face your super hard adventure. " and he goes " Well, this is mechanically sound. Go ahead! "

EDIT:

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

Notice the reference to Arcane casters only being able to use scrolls containing Arcane spells, and vice versa. So even if the item type was divine, our archivist has got himself an Arcane Spell, which he can't learn.

[VirOath]

Actually, all item creation rules are written with the assumption of one person involved in their creation.

The cooperation rules are a specific set for when the situation arises that you will have more than one person working on the creation of the item.

My evidence, the method of casting spells into magic items (such as magic arms and armor) goes back to the creator putting the spell into the item to finish it before the build time is over, otherwise the construction fails.


Creating Magic Armor

To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. He also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the armor or the pieces of the armor to be assembled. Armor to be made into magic armor must be masterwork armor, and the masterwork cost is added to the base price to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic armor—half the base price of the item.

Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

Magic armor or a magic shield must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Armor Special Abilities and Table: Shield Special Abilities.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), must provide any material components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs required for the spells. The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)



Creating Magic Weapons

To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools. She also needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being the weapon or the pieces of the weapon to be assembled. Only a masterwork weapon can become a magic weapon, and the masterwork cost is added to the total cost to determine final market value. Additional magic supplies costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon—half the base price given on Table: Weapons, according to the weapon’s total effective bonus.

Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.

A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities or Table: Ranged Weapon Special Abilities.

If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)

As referenced above, that means this:

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

Means that anyone can assist the creator and cast the spell as though it was the creator that had cast the item, and such helpers to not need the feats required to make the items to help with them, they only provide the spells at the proper time. After all, an assistant isn't a master unto himself, but rather a tool for one to use.

To say otherwise is to say that no one can help in the creation of any magic items at all.

[Major]

Human Spellthief1/Bard4/Chameleon10/X5

where X is an arcane spellcasting class -- Sublime Chord would be fine.

Feats: Able Learner, Heighten Spell, Talfirian Song, Extra Music, Sanctum Spell, Extra Slot (As many as you can, but one will do.), Master Spellthief

Caster Level = Yes (Without sublime chord CL shenanigans, that is a CL of 40 for chameleon spells.)
Talfirian Song lets you spend bardic music usages to heigthen illusion spells (up to 9th). Sanctum lets you take that one more to 10th. Extra Slot gives you a slot one lower than the highest you can cast. Chameleon can prepare any arcane or divine spell in the game (if he gets access to the arcane ones). Chameleon Floating feat can be used for Extra Spell, so that he can scribe any arcane spell into his book.


This is a little late, but I noticed this just a moment ago and am playing a chameleon in a campaign that is starting soon. How exactly does this work? I'm away from books.

I assume this uses the Chameleon's double caster level to get 20, but where are you getting the other 20 to stack with? Bard, Spellthief, and whatever the other caster is would give 10. Thus CL 10+20.

Also why is Talfirian needed? I don't see why heightening illusions is that useful, nor do I see why Sanctum is so great (it is only on a certain spot and the boost to 10th could probably be done others ways couldn't it?)

I assume extra slot is only there to give an extra 9th level spell slot. My confusion could be simply unsure how Heighten spell works. (Not done metamagic characters much).

And Extra spell I assume is just to let you scribe the spell and as such learn new one new spell each day?

Please note I'm a bit hazy on some of these abilities and am away from book.

[tuesdayscoming]

This is a little late, but I noticed this just a moment ago and am playing a chameleon in a campaign that is starting soon. How exactly does this work? I'm away from books.

I assume this uses the Chameleon's double caster level to get 20, but where are you getting the other 20 to stack with? Bard, Spellthief, and whatever the other caster is would give 10. Thus CL 10+20.

Also why is Talfirian needed? I don't see why heightening illusions is that useful, nor do I see why Sanctum is so great (it is only on a certain spot and the boost to 10th could probably be done others ways couldn't it?)

I assume extra slot is only there to give an extra 9th level spell slot. My confusion could be simply unsure how Heighten spell works. (Not done metamagic characters much).

And Extra spell I assume is just to let you scribe the spell and as such learn new one new spell each day?

Please note I'm a bit hazy on some of these abilities and am away from book.

I agree with you on the CL 30 thing. Not quite sure how the math could get that up to 40.

Talfirian Song lets you cast a heightened spell in the original spell slot. This is important because, even with Heighten, the Chameleon could still only cast level 6 spells. Heighten caps out at level 9, though, so Sanctum is used to bump it up to level 10. Thus, because we can cast level 10 illusion spells in a level 6 slot, we can get a single level 9 slot from Extra Slot, 8 from another, and 7 from a third.

I really enjoy this method of getting higher spells, but I don't like Sanctum. Anyone know of another way to get Heighten up to 10?

edit: by my reading, you also wouldn't need to pick up extra uses of bardic music through the feat. You've got 4 bard levels and 6th level spells, so you've got the 4 uses needed for Talfirian up to 10. Am I incorrect?

[FMArthur]

You could take Earth Spell from Races of Stone. Read the feat though, it might not interact correctly with this other ability.

[dextercorvia]

Master Spellthief stacks levels in arcane spellcasting classes to determine CL.

Suppose you have 10 Chameleon levels and 10 other arcane spellcaster levels. To determine Chameleon CL, you see how many Chameleon levels you have. Then, because of Master Spellthief, you add any other arcane spellcaster level to your Chameleon levels to calculate CL. Chameleon does a 2 for one deal on CL, so you get CL 40.

Only if Master Spellthief stacked CL, would you stop at 30.

[Jack_Simth]

Master Spellthief stacks levels in arcane spellcasting classes to determine CL.

Suppose you have 10 Chameleon levels and 10 other arcane spellcaster levels. To determine Chameleon CL, you see how many Chameleon levels you have. Then, because of Master Spellthief, you add any other arcane spellcaster level to your Chameleon levels to calculate CL. Chameleon does a 2 for one deal on CL, so you get CL 40.

Only if Master Spellthief stacked CL, would you stop at 30.
You're still working with the Chameleon's spells-per-day, though, which cap at 6th.

[Angry Bob]

Can't the Psi Artificer get all spells + all powers by virtue of spell-to-power combined with alternative source?

[Tyndmyr]

Multiple creators is the specific, special case for item crafting. Single creator is the default, general case.

[Major]

Master Spellthief stacks levels in arcane spellcasting classes to determine CL.

Suppose you have 10 Chameleon levels and 10 other arcane spellcaster levels. To determine Chameleon CL, you see how many Chameleon levels you have. Then, because of Master Spellthief, you add any other arcane spellcaster level to your Chameleon levels to calculate CL. Chameleon does a 2 for one deal on CL, so you get CL 40.

Only if Master Spellthief stacked CL, would you stop at 30.

Yes but...actually nevermind, while explaining the problem I get what you mean. It still seems a bit iffy based on wording...but I can see where you get this.

Your chameleon side would be treated as 10+the other class. Thus 10+10=20, then double. So as a Chameleon you get CR 40. The other class would have CR 20. Now I understand...

[dextercorvia]

You're still working with the Chameleon's spells-per-day, though, which cap at 6th.

That is why I used Talfirian Song + Sanctum spell (one of which I should really use my floating feat for) to nab Extra Slot to get a ninth level spell slot. The CL thing was just a side dish.

[sambo.]

So instead of fancy, expensive cheeses, you are limiting it to basic American cheese that comes in that plastic wrapper and is an odd shade of yellow?

that 'odd shade of yellow' stuff is NOT cheese.

it's an abomination.