How to get blindsight and/or Telepathy? (3.5)

[Mystic Muse]

I'm working on a character for a game and I was wondering if there were any easy ways to get blindsight and/or telepathy and I would greatly prefer that it didn't involve the use of items. I have 5 levels left to get the ability/s in, and I can also take an LA+2 template without penalty, although I would prefer not to since I've got another template I'm currently taking. Also, the character is rather dependent on their charisma score, so anything that lowers that is a no go.

I don't know what else to say or if there's anything I can do to make things clearer.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the character is lawful good and has to remain lawful good. The rest of the levels are Paladin levels.

[The Rabbler]

The only thing that jumps to mind is the mindbender PrC and Mindsight feat. Mindbender gives you 100ft telepathy at level 1 and Mindsight allows you to "see" all intelligent creatures within range of your telepathy.

[Warsmurf]

Dragonborn from Races of the Dragon gives you blindsight, though its at a later level. +0 template with some hefty bonuses.

[Mystic Muse]

The only thing that jumps to mind is the mindbender PrC and Mindsight feat. Mindbender gives you 100ft telepathy at level 1 and Mindsight allows you to "see" all intelligent creatures within range of your telepathy.

I forgot that the character is lawful good and has to remain lawful good. :smallfrown: thanks for the suggestion though.


Dragonborn from Races of the Dragon gives you blindsight, though its at a later level. +0 template with some hefty bonuses.

It actually gets blindsense and 30 feet is a little too small.

[Lyndworm]

There's a Paladin spell in the Spell Compendium that gives a limited form of Telepathy out to 60ft. I forget what it's called, unfortunately.

Basically, you can only communicate one-way, you can only do this with creatures that you consider allies, and you cannot "whisper;" that is to say, all allied creatures within range hear your message.

[Dimers]

I have 5 levels left to get the ability/s in ...

Five levels of psi would easily give you such effects. Touchsight is a third-level power and is better than blindsight; mindlink gives you mind-to-mind communication as a 1st-level power. A wilder could learn both, if not much more, and use Cha for casting. A psion could learn both and quite a few other handy powers, but uses Int.

Edit: whoops, mindlink is for telepaths only -- so it'd cost a wilder a feat. Not that that helps you anyway, given your later post.

If you need telepathy/blindsight specifically? Dunno. Outside my field of knowledge.

[Mystic Muse]

There's a Paladin spell in the Spell Compendium that gives a limited form of Telepathy out to 60ft. I forget what it's called, unfortunately.

Basically, you can only communicate one-way, you can only do this with creatures that you consider allies, and you cannot "whisper;" that is to say, all allied creatures within range hear your message.

That's not really going to work. The effect needs to be permanent.

I should probably put that in the original post too. Wonder what else I forgot.:smallsigh:

EDIT: I guess it doesn't absolutely have to be, but it would work a lot better if it were.

[Douglas]

The Soulmelds Shedu Crown and Soulspeaker Circlet can grant telepathy if bound to the right chakra. Shape Soulmeld plus the appropriate Open <X> Chakra feat will get you either of them for two feats, or you could take levels in one of the Incarnum classes.

[Mystic Muse]

I don't know if my DM allows Incarnum. Any alternatives if he doesn't?

[Amnestic]

The Unseelie Fey template (Dragon Compendium) has an option which grants you Blindsight 30', but you also don't have any eyes. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Whoops, scratch that, missed your alignment restrictions. Unseelie Fey are always evil. My bad.

[Mystic Muse]

Edit: Whoops, scratch that, missed your alignment restrictions. Unseelie Fey are always evil. My bad.

Thanks anyway.

I'm surprised its so hard to find a way to represent "Justice is blind"

granted, mindsight doesn't quite work for this, but it would be better than nothing. Sadly, I can't seem to qualify for that either.

[Darrin]

I don't know if my DM allows Incarnum. Any alternatives if he doesn't?

A two-level dip into Incarnate would allow you to bind the Shedu Crown soulmeld to your crown chakra. Permanent 100' telepathy. Otherwise, Shape Soulmeld + Open Least Chakra (requires 6 HD) will do it without Incarnate levels.

Otherwise, you can pay for a telepathic bond and permanency. Cost would be:

50 x 13 = 650 GP (telepathic bond, 5th level spell, CL 13)
50 x 13 = 650 GP (permanency, 5th level spell, CL 13)
2500 x 5 = 12500 GP (XP cost x 5 GP)
Total: 13800 GP

In the divine section of the SRD, there's the Blindsight 5' Radius (http://srd.realmspire.com/divineFeats.html) feat. Requires BAB +4, Blind Fight, and Wis 19, which is doable for a paladin. Range stinks, though.

[Mystic Muse]

In the divine section of the SRD, there's the Blindsight 5' Radius (http://srd.realmspire.com/divineFeats.html) feat. Requires BAB +4, Blind Fight, and Wis 19, which is doable for a paladin. Range stinks, though.

This isn't directed at you, this is directed at WOTC. In fact, I thank you for pointing it out to me, since every little bit could help. Might be able to convince my DM to change something to be usable.

Really? 5 feet? 5 feet is all I get for that? %$#!@*&$#!#@($!

WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH FIVE FEET?!

EDIT: Darnit. I thought I'd found a feat that would actually accomplish it for a moment. Then I saw the pre-requisite of being able to wildshape into a dire bat. :smallannoyed:

EDIT 2: If I seem angry, I don't mean to. It may be a side effect of the two episodes of a documentary series I watched a couple of hours ago.

[Curmudgeon]

Savage Species has this little supplementary rule on page 60:
In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate). They list Improved Blindsight, which (since Savage Species is pre-3.5 rules) no longer exists. Spell Compendium has its 3.5 replacement: Blindsight, Greater (page 32).

You might get your DM to accord that an NPC spellcaster (or two, if you can't find a Cleric with the Time domain) is allowed to give you permanent 60' blindsight. Then just watch out for nasty dispel attacks. :smallsigh:

[Killer Angel]

Then just watch out for nasty dispel attacks. :smallsigh:

At least, a ring of counterspells can protect you from a targeted dispel.

[Curmudgeon]

At least, a ring of counterspells can protect you from a targeted dispel.
Yes, just a targeted dispel. You have to pick a single targeted spell from among the following, and gamble on whether that would be the right choice:

Dispel Magic
Greater Dispel Magic
Dispelling Breath
Dispelling Screen
Greater Dispelling Screen
Reaving Dispel
Wall of Dispel Magic
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic
Mordenkainen's Disjunction

[Jack_Simth]

I don't know if my DM allows Incarnum. Any alternatives if he doesn't?

Well, just barely within reach of your resources, but there's the Minds Eye Expanded Classes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) which gives the option for a Psion(Telepath) 5 to trade the 5th level bonus feat for Telepathy:

Telepathic Communication

You gain the supernatural ability to communicate with any creature with your telepathy.
Level: 5th.
Replaces: The bonus feat at 5th level.
Benefit: You gain the supernatural ability telepathy from page 316 of the Monster Manual. You can communicate telepathically with any other creature that has a language within 5 feet per manifester level. You can address multiple creatures at once telepathically, although maintaining telepathic conversation with more than one creature at a time is just as difficult as simultaneously speaking and listening to multiple people at the same time.
You'll also want Practiced Manifester - that'll boost it by 20 feet.

[Killer Angel]

Yes, just a targeted dispel. You have to pick a single targeted spell from among the following, and gamble on whether that would be the right choice:

Dispel Magic
Greater Dispel Magic
Dispelling Breath
Dispelling Screen
Greater Dispelling Screen
Reaving Dispel
Wall of Dispel Magic
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic
Mordenkainen's Disjunction


Well, I concede that the ring's plan, was far from perfect... :smallbiggrin:

Still, you can discriminate something.
Mordenkainen's disjunction is less frequent than Greater disp. mag. (at least, in our campaigns).
The choice between DM or GDM, depends on the level of the bad guys you're facing... with a high lev. campaign, go for GDM.
Stationary dispels, such the Wall line, should be avoided more easily than someone actively trying to target you.

But yeah, you have no guarantee.

[SurlySeraph]

It's an item, but the Blindfold of True Darkness is a pretty easy way. 60' Blindsight.

[Curmudgeon]

It's an item, but the Blindfold of True Darkness is a pretty easy way. 60' Blindsight.
And, like the Unseelie Fey blindsight, you lose normal vision. It's a temporary loss, but you'll still be helpless against enemies at more than 60' distance because you just won't see them.

[Draz74]

And, like the Unseelie Fey blindsight, you lose normal vision. It's a temporary loss, but you'll still be helpless against enemies at more than 60' distance because you just won't see them.

Considering the OP mentioned that the idea was "justice is blind," that might not be a bad thing. In fact, the Blindfold of True Darkness was practically made for such a character concept.

But it is an item. Which is why I was going to suggest the Incarnum stuff. But someone else already did.

So instead, I'll just mention that one level of Sorcerer and the Improved Familiar feat can get you a Pseudodragon that can do all your telepathy for you. :smallsmile: You can see if your DM will allow the same tactic with a Psicrystal (one Psion level), which has the added advantage that the Psicrystal can take feats (including Mindsight, if the DM rules that it counts as having true Telepathy).

Or there's another feat with the same 5' limitation as the 5'-Blindsight: Combat Awareness, PHB2. Requires 4 feats to get the full combo going, but gives you a number of perks for those 4 feats (automatic exact knowledge of nearby monsters' HP, fast healing, will save boosts, and the usual blind-fight stuff, in addition to the blindsight).

If Blindsense is good enough, then there are several other tactics, though off the top of my head, they'll require a heavy level investment (unless the character is Level 18). But I'm guessing you want more than just Blindsense.

[Mystic Muse]

Blindfold of true darkness might just work. Thanks guys.