Cutting out a Swallowed Character?

[Ursus the Grim]

I'm preparing to throw a Purple Worm at my players (during a duststorm no less), and was just scanning over the scenario. It occurred to me that only two of the five actually have light weapons with which to cut their way out. Considering I can't imagine (or count on) them beating a +40 grapple check, I'm afraid this Worm will kill at least two of them. The only spellcasters are a Sorceror (caster level 7) and a Bard (similar level), and I doubt they'd be able to pull off an effective spell. Two of the characters are large size, so it can't eat them all. But even if I ruled that a player could just crawl their way out, that could be a lot of time spent taking that damage and not contributing to the party's damage.

Their most likely course of action would probably be to try and cut into the Worm as its still alive to free their ally. I would not make this easy, but I don't want to make it impossible and leave them with no options.

How would one go about determining the procedure for this? A couple factors arise in my mind.

They would have to guess the approximate location of the character. Even ruling that within five feet is enough and that the intestines are linear, that's still an 80 foot long worm. The chances aren't good.
I would think 25 points of damage would be enough, but it would all have to be to the same location. Should I rule this like a called shot? Would successive attacks have a higher penalty?
Would attempting to cut into the Worm's belly deal standard damage to it?
For some reason, I feel the urge to make this a sunder attempt and apply the armor class to hardness. Anyone else like this idea?

[classy one]

I was swallowed by a purple worm before. Luckily I had a dagger as a side arm for situation were I can swing my greatsword around. I got out after 2 rounds and was near death (around 4 HP). The gullet has low AC and easy to hit, by the second round I risked it and full power attacked.

The morale of the story: always have a small weapon. If your players don't then they prolly deserved death. How much does a dagger +1 cost anyways? Come on!

[Aspenor]

There are printed rules for this, usually in the creature's stat block IIRC.

Every character should ALWAYS carry a dagger somewhere on their person. If they don't, they deserve to die, period.

When you are swallowed, you always full power attack because you pretty much can't miss.

[HunterOfJello]

Have them meet a wandering oracle dude who gives them 5 non-magical daggers and tells them that he saw a vision that something terrible will happen if they don't keep them on their person.

If none of them keep daggers on their person after that, and don't have one already, then it's their own fault.




Every character should ALWAYS carry a dagger somewhere on their person. If they don't, they deserve to die, period.

Too True. I try to keep at least one weapon for each damage type, a decent ranged weapon, and 3 daggers (two hidden) on any character I play. The bare minimum I could ever tolerate would be 1 dagger and 1 main weapon.

Dangerous situations like gaint wyrms and anti-magic fields always come up when you least expect them.

[Ursus the Grim]

I don't want to wipe them all, but I don't want to hold their hand. I think I like the warning oracle, especially because it can be worked in story wise very easily. It gives them a fighting chance but not a get out of jail free.

No ideas on the external rescue effort then?

[classy one]

I don't want to wipe them all, but I don't want to hold their hand. I think I like the warning oracle, especially because it can be worked in story wise very easily. It gives them a fighting chance but not a get out of jail free.

No ideas on the external rescue effort then?

Based on their power level, can they kill this thing in under 4 rounds? I have a hard time imagining anyone at level 7 surviving longer than that. If they can then they can just cut him out.

If you are asking if you can disembowel it while it is alive, I would ask "it's that the same as killing it?". I havent heard of any rules for "fighting with your guts hanging out" but I'd think it would be very painful (and disturbing).

[Ursus the Grim]

Well, I was going to point out that its an ongoing monstrous race. They were actually ECL 10. But that made me realize that four of the five actually have natural weapons. I was an idiot to overlook that, but they hardly ever use them.

The thread is not pointless yet, though.

Would swallow whole damage be subject to Damage Reduction? Monster Manual states that they reduce damage from most weapons. It also specifically says that supernatural abilities and spell-like abilities bypass it. Swallow whole is an extraordinary ability. Do they get DR vs the stomach acid?

[subject42]

Do they get DR vs the stomach acid?

Most swallow whole abilities are a combination of bludgeoning and acid. Depending on the wording, they might get DR for the bludgeoning half, but not the acid.

[Skaven]

My big rule is to houserule swallow damage.

The entire idea that characters take as much damage in a stomach as getting beat on by 3+ guys with iron maces every 6 seconds while also being subject to acid that is so corrosive it could be weaponised is absurd in the extreme.

The big danger for a swallowed character is suffocation.

A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.

This gives them more time to work with. As an extra incentive I deal 1 point of acid damage per round after 1d4 rounds.

IMO this works much better and prevents instakilling of frail PC's as well as being far more realistic.

[Bonecrusher Doc]

You could hint at the need for a back-up weapon in cold iron or alchemical silver (what all my low-level characters have), then maybe somebody would get themselves a light weapon.

[SilverSheriff]

That is why one of my characters carried around a Magical Beast Bane Dagger.

[Dalek-K]

Well about the guts hanging out... Make it able to repair it self... Or after X amount of internal damage the monster pukes :)

Bonus points if it aims the puke at a PC :smallamused:

[Fitz10019]

Have them meet a wandering oracle dude who gives them 5 non-magical daggers and tells them that he saw a vision that something terrible will happen if they don't keep them on their person...


When you are swallowed, you always full power attack because you pretty much can't miss.

Rather than daggers as weapons, the "oracle" could give them each a dagger-size fang as a "talisman" that gives a +1 luck bonus on a saving throw 1/day (or 1/ever). The fang (which is leather-wrapped by the base, to hint at a handle) could later be used as a dagger (perhaps improvised). Now the oracle does not even need to mention a vision. He could simply be a wandering shaman who is grateful for some service they provided. I think that'll tone down the feeling of "holding their hands."

I wonder if there's a fair Heal check DC that would inform a PC on how to get a freshly-dead monster to regurgitate. "Any electricity damage to [anatomical feature X] will make it spew... you may want to move to higher ground, preferably upwind."

----

My big rule is to houserule swallow damage....
[Skaven's houserule]
IMO this works much better and prevents instakilling of frail PC's as well as being far more realistic.
That does sound better -- well done.

[some guy]

Their most likely course of action would probably be to try and cut into the Worm as its still alive to free their ally. I would not make this easy, but I don't want to make it impossible and leave them with no options.

How would one go about determining the procedure for this?


Two sessions ago I had my players fighting two tendriculosi and a shambling mound. I think one or two had light slashing weapons*.
What I allowed was if one swallowed character managed to do some damage, the other characters could notice a hole forming, or a weapon slashing from the inside. After this they could help the character cutting his/her way out.
Still this might be more difficult with an 80 foot worm, maybe with spot checks?



Would attempting to cut into the Worm's belly deal standard damage to it?

I would say yes.


Side Tangent:
Two of five characters died in that fight. After a while the players noticed that, thanks to the dragon shaman's acid resistance aura, their characters were more safe inside the guts of the tendriculosi then outside. It was fun seeing them trying to think up ways to jump inside the tendriculos' mouth without getting bite damage.

*Additional rant:
They knew what they were going to fight and having fought these type of monsters before they knew their weaknesses. Still, only one player had a bludgeoning weapon.

[Skaven]

Two of five characters died in that fight. After a while the players noticed that, thanks to the dragon shaman's acid resistance aura, their characters were more safe inside the guts of the tendriculosi then outside.

Another reason why I use suffocation as opposed to generic damage.

[Volos]

My players had a rather epic moment involving a character getting swallowed. Oddly enough it was with a purple worm. So the players have been backed up against a cliff with a few purple worms attacking them. The rogue ends up getting caught in the mouth of the worm, but hasn't been swallowed yet. The half dragon paladin jumps up and tries to assist her with her grapple. He ends up failing, and she gets swallowed. Now he's stuck it its mouth and the rogue is inside where she can't do nearly enough damage to escape soon enough (concidering how terrible of a beating she already took). So the druid tries to bull rush the purple worm off the cliff, not realizing the rogue was inside. At the same time this happens, the paladin fails his grapple check on purpose to go in after the rouge. Both of them are inside as the druid knocks the worm off of the cliff. The paladin barely manages to cut a hole open before they hit the ground, pushing the rogue out of it. She activates her feather fall pendant and lands safely nearby. The paladin and the worm land several hundred feet down, taking massive falling damage. The worm is still alive, so it begins to burrow with the paladin inside. The party fights and kills the other worms while the paladin bides his time, using lay hands to keep himself alive. When the worm surfaces to attack the party again, he crits and confrims with his claws on the inside, doing more than double the worm's current hitpoints. It was so epic I ruled he tore the beast's gut open so hard that he nearly sundered it's body.

So in short, in my games I allow tougher characters to go in after those who can't cut themselves off. Also if you manage to nausiate the beast, it has to make a second save or vomit up everything it swallowed. In order to cut a player out from the outside you have to make a called shot (higher AC) and do double the normal damage to get them out. Any excess damage has a chance to hit the player your saving. That's how I handle it.

[Psyborg]

+1 Last Resort Riverine Bladed Gauntlet. Slashing.
Light.
Can't be disarmed, sundered, rusted, or shattered.
Hits incorporeal/etheral foes normally (as riverine is a force effect).
Leaves your hands free.
Does extra damage to creatures larger than you (how much depending on how much larger).It's the perfect anti-Swallow Whole weapon. Add magical beast bane, aberration bane, and/or dragon bane as finances allow and your campaign indicates.

Alternatively, just get an anklet of translocation or other source of teleportation. Problem solved.

At this point, if your players don't even know enough to always carry a combination of daggers and morningstars in adamantine, cold iron, silver, and any campaign-specific materials (byeshk for Eberron, etc.), so that they have any combination of damage type and material available at any time, then they probably deserve what they get. Heck, most level 1 characters can afford a cold iron morningstar and a silver dagger, and the opposite combination by level 2.

[Hatchet91]

I enjoy, playing rogue type chars, and as of to date i Maintain that all Characters should have a sleeve dagger, because you never know when you might have to sneak attack (sleeve dagger is complete scoundrel i believe 4gp baseprice)

[Jayabalard]

When you are swallowed, you always full power attack because you pretty much can't miss.So ... power attack with light a weapon?

[Diarmuid]

Heh, I'm glad I didnt get to the end of this thread without someone already pointing out the PA flaw in all these plans.

[Vladislav]

I was swallowed by a purple worm before. Luckily I had a dagger as a side arm for situation were I can swing my greatsword around. I got out after 2 rounds and was near death (around 4 HP). The gullet has low AC and easy to hit, by the second round I risked it and full power attacked.

Indeed, a huge risk:


You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon ... even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies.

:smallbiggrin:

[mangosta71]

For some reason, I feel the urge to make this a sunder attempt and apply the armor class to hardness. Anyone else like this idea?
Seems to me that that would add a lot of hardness, which would mean that anyone swallowed can't deal any damage toward breaking out. I would only advise doing this if your goal is a TPK.

[Eric Tolle]

More fun than cutting oneself out, is using the right magic. Fireball may have some side effects to the caster, but you can argue that the worm should take max damage, no save. Lightning bolt is a similar situation, but at least you can argue it's directional. And then there's fun things like Wall of Stone or Wall of Force and magic items like Instant Castle the ladder function of Rod of Lordly Might, Marble Elephant, and of course the Decanter of Endless Water for an insta-kill. Why the Decanter of Endless Water? Just point out to the GM what happens when you add water to a very powerful acid- boom.

[Jayabalard]

Why the Decanter of Endless Water? Just point out to the GM what happens when you add water to a very powerful acid- boom.If you add water to a powerful acid, you mostly just get a diluted acid and some heat, no Boom. This is especially true when you don't have a bunch of free oxygen, since the hydrogen needs free oxygen to combust. In a closed space like a stomach, there's not going to be enough oxygen to generate an explosion.

Really though, the problem is more with particularly hydrophyllic acids (like H2SO4) that are in extremely pure form, not necessarily from strong acids themselves.

[Ursus the Grim]

More fun than cutting oneself out, is using the right magic. Fireball may have some side effects to the caster, but you can argue that the worm should take max damage, no save. Lightning bolt is a similar situation, but at least you can argue it's directional. And then there's fun things like Wall of Stone or Wall of Force and magic items like Instant Castle the ladder function of Rod of Lordly Might, Marble Elephant, and of course the Decanter of Endless Water for an insta-kill. Why the Decanter of Endless Water? Just point out to the GM what happens when you add water to a very powerful acid- boom.

Um. Doesn't this all require concentration checks? Being swallowed is ongoing damage, and I'm pretty sure he's still technically considered grappled.

Also, I AM the GM.

The on-topic post about natural armor to hardness is a valid point, but at ECL 10, the party members (melee ones, anyway) are averaging at least 30 damage per hit.

[Callista]

Suggest having an ally give them a set of daggers with some sort of insignia on them, as a gift, as identification, as a badge of membership, etc. Make them +1 (or just masterwork) daggers so that they will want to keep them. Hopefully they will hold on to them long enough for them to come in handy.

[sambo.]

pfft. just throw the damn worm at them and see what happens!

if it's a TPK, so be it.

[Ursus the Grim]

Just in case someone missed it, I am going to remind you guys. Nearly all of them have natural weapons, thus I no longer need the question answered. I guess now the thread is about OMNOMNOM in general.

Thanks for the advice everyone, implausible Power Attack notwithstanding. :smallwink: