[3.5] New player needs help to build a survival character

[Pagz]

I'm going to be playing in a homebrew 3.5 version of temple of elemental evil in a party of five and am going to need a character that can not only take a lot of damage but survive the various traps and unfriendliness that we're sure to run into. If this party survives this campaign we'll also try and do the sequel.

We're starting at level one and are only allowed to use the core books (which I believe is the completes?), the DM is taking other books on a case by case basis (except absolutely nothing from the dragon magazines). Other requirements is the character must be a Dwarf (because I want to play one, but if something really good requires another race then I'll probably switch), and no evil characters allowed.

Survive at any cost is pretty much all I want this character to do, any help would be appreciated, thanks!

[SexyPlantLover]

We'll need more info in order to really help you design a character.

about the game: it's homebrewed how? what kinds of characters/classes will the rest of the group choose? do you already work well as a group? what books do YOU have access to, where I come from core only means you get the PHB only.

about your character:
1. do you just want really high AC and Saves and lots of hit points?
2. are you looking for a way for your character to bypass everything by yourself if everyone else dies?
3. do you have more requirements than dwarf, such as really wanting a melee fighting dwarf with heavy armor and no spells?

maybe take a peek at this thread for ideas (scroll down to the second post): http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_work

[Pagz]

We'll need more info in order to really help you design a character.

about the game: it's homebrewed how? what kinds of characters/classes will the rest of the group choose? do you already work well as a group? what books do YOU have access to, where I come from core only means you get the PHB only.

about your character:
1. do you just want really high AC and Saves and lots of hit points?
2. are you looking for a way for your character to bypass everything by yourself if everyone else dies?
3. do you have more requirements than dwarf, such as really wanting a melee fighting dwarf with heavy armor and no spells?

maybe take a peek at this thread for ideas (scroll down to the second post): http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872646/Some_handy_links_for_CO_workThank you for a response of what you need from me.

It's homebrew in the sense that it's a second edition campaign converted into a 3.5 campaign. The universe itself is standard Greyhawk. The rest of the party looks like it'll be a ranger, cleric, two wizards and rouge. This is subject to change until we start though. There is also the chance of more people comming in and the party being split between two DM's.

To clarify the books, we have access to the PHB and the complete series, and everything else is subject to DM approval, except for dragon magazines which are automatic no-go. I am also not sure about setting specific books (such as forgotten realms, etc).

About the character:
1. This would be great
2. Would be really nice but not a necessity. moreso if I get stuck in some kind of weird trap (huge pit, stuck alone in a room), I want to be able to get myself out of it and back to the party.
3. Not really, any character concept is fine.

The link you showed me is great, I'll have a look though!

[Yeturs]

I'm a fan of a conjeration specialist. Especially if you can take abrupt jaunt from unearthed arcana. It let's you teleport 10 feet as an immediate actions a number of times per day equel to your intelligence modifier.

I have a wizard like this playing now, and I use that to get out of all sorts of crazy things. Like teleport out of a traps explosion radius, out of the trajectory of an arrow, away from the big monsters melée range. That kind of stuff.

Then disarm traps with celetial monkeys from summon monster 1 and grapple down bad guys with your bigger animals.

A little hard to do the latter for a few levels because of low spells per day, but at about level 4 I stoped having that issue.

Also, look up the conjuration handbook (I think it's called) for more suggestions.

Only downside I know of is all the paperwork. Oh god, the paperwork!

(edit) another downside, another wizard. Fine if you like that, but a touch to squishy a party for my to add a wizard to :P

[Pagz]

Ooo, abrupt jaunt sounds right up my ally, but yeah, another mage =/.

I guess I could always just dual into mage after a few levels of fighter? It's those few first levels that'll be hard if we have three mages right off the bat. Considering the high death rate this campaign will have, I'm not sure we can risk it.

Atm it seems like a tanky rouge-like character dualing into mage for the abrupt jaunt would be the best bet, any suggestions about any build would be very much appreciated!

[Keld Denar]

You could go for a super Con build. Dwarves already get a bonus to Con, which is good. Look into the PrC Deepwarden. Its in Races of Stone (you should be able to get it approved). The 2nd level ability is called Stonewarden, and gives you +Con to AC instead of Dex. Depending on whether you go by the sage's ruling or not, this is technically uncapped by armor max dex. This is REALLY good. If you want to get really silly, you could go unarmored and take levels in Fist of the Forest, a PrC in Complete Champion to get +Con to AC twice. If you do this, look at Bear Warrior, a PrC in Complete Warrior that gives you a super bear rage, which gives you a bigger boost to Con, and thus a bigger boost to your AC. It also synergizes with the Warshaper PrC in Complete Warrior which gives you even MORE Con, along with some Str, fast healing, and immunity to crits and sneak attack.

It all starts with Deepwarden, though. I'd suggest Ranger1/Fighter2/Barbarian2 as your 5 level entry. This gives you the best spread of skills to get into the rather skill-heavy Deepwarden, while still giving you some nice feats with Fighter2 and some nice alt class features from Barb2 (assuming you use Unearthed Arcana or Complete Champion).

Oh, and all that Con you are prioritizing? That nets you a TON of extra HP and fort save boost to allow you to survive just about anything. Oh, and the Steadfast Determination feat (PHBII) is another boon, allowing you to add Con to will save rather than wisdom. Seriously, Fort and Will are the 2 most important saves, and you have a HUGE boost to both simply by being a hearty dwarf with a massive...Con score. :smallcool:

[Pagz]

That super Con build sounds most excellent! So, character progression wise, something like this?:

1. Barb 1
2. Fighter 1
3. Barb 2
4. Barb 3
5. Barb 4
6. Deepwarden 1
7. Deepwarden 2
8. Bear Warrior 1
9. Warshaper 1
10. Warshaper 2
11. Warshaper 3
12. Warshaper 4
13. Bear Warrior 2
14. Bear Warrior 3
15. Bear Warrior 4
16. Bear Warrior 5
17. Deepwarden 3
18. Deepwarden 4
19. Deepwarden 5
20. Fighter 2

(Note: I'd rather not one level dip into Ranger, just seems like a little too much min/maxing for me.)

[Hirax]

I'm not so sure it's worth it for you to enter deepwarden with 4 levels of barbarian, I'd stick with 2. A second level of fighter would even be better than a third or fourth level of barb since the fighter feat would allow you to direct one of your non-fighter feats to the extra rage feat, which is probably a superior option if you want more raging. Trap sense isn't worth it either. I'd probably recommend sticking to Barb2/Fighter2, and since level 3 in either of those classes isn't a good option, you need to find a placeholder class (or prestige class) of some kind. Fist of the Forest could be your level 5 class, though that would eat feats since it requires power attack, imp. unarmed strike, and great fortitude for entry, along with 4 ranks in handle animal and survival, and a BAB of +4. You could easily fluff this character into a wild rogue.

[Pagz]

Oh I see, yeah barb 4 really isn't as good. I've been looking at classes to dip into and what about two levels of cleric? I know it sets back everything else by a level but some domain spells, feats and protection from evils could come in a lot of handy in a temple of elemental evil. However I don't know, is it worth it?

[Keld Denar]

So wait, you have a problem with dipping in Ranger for 1 level, but you want 2 of cleric? Stranded casting is...less than amazing. Granted, Cleric1 is not a bad dip, especially for picking up Travel Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and another domain, plus the TU attempts to fuel them, but I'd consider that to be MORE powergamey than taking 1 level of Ranger, especially since Ranger is basically a Barbarian with slightly fewer HP and slightly more skill points...

[Pagz]

Heh yeah, not liking one level of ranger but liking a level of cleric is backwards, but I guess I like the fluff of clerics a lot more then rangers, or maybe it's also because a dip in cleric gives more then a dip in ranger?

I guess I'm not sold on ranger yet, when cleric has these other options. However if someone knows something about ranger dips that I'm not seeing (highly likely) then I'm love to hear it!

[Keld Denar]

The reason for the ranger dip is that otherwise you have a tough time qualifing for Deepwarden ASAP without losing BAB. Ranger gets the most skill points of any full BAB character, and has ALL of the skills you need for Deepwarden as class skills. While you can do without it, it takes a bit more investment in Int and more points spent on cross class skills. Even WITH the cleric levels. If you want to get the most out of your Con, you really need Deepwarden levels, and ECL7 (the earliest you can possibly get Stonewarden) is already kinda later than you'd probably like.

[Eldan]

If you like the fluff of clerics, there's nothing stopping you from building a tank cleric or Paladin. With classes like Warpriest, you can get high hit dice and full base attack progression, and it's pretty flavourful for a dwarf. Furthermore, cleric buffs, if applied carefully (look if you can get divine metamagic: persistent spell, if the DM allows it), means that you can turn yourself into a very impressive fighter. If your other cleric plays more classically, mostly as a caster and healer and only a secondary fighter, you shouldn't be stepping on each other's toes too much.

[dextercorvia]

Don't forget that you can squeeze in Fist of the Forest at ECL5. You need a 10 int and the Ranger dip to get all of the skills though.

[Pagz]

Ahk, I'll do the dip in ranger so I can get into the better stuff quicker :smalltongue:, so I'll start as:

Ranger
Barb
Fighter
Fighter
Barb
Deepwarden
etc.

The game starts in a few hours, thanks to everyone who helped me figure all this out! Wouldn't have gotten anywhere near this far without your help. Any further help on feat selection is always welcome! Atm looks like I'll need Steadfast Determination, Extra Rage, Blind-fight, Power Attack and Endurance, any other suggestions?

EDIT: So played the game, went well! Haven't entered the temple yet, but I'm sure I'll have a blast with this character, thanks to everyone who helped once again!