Dragon Age Origins VII: You sneaky witch-thief!

[Yora]

I was so free to start this thread since the old one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171445) is locked. And now it's DAO only again. For DA2, there's this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190463).

I started my first mage character yesterday and already made it to a blood mage. Playing as an apostate is fun, but doesn't the blood mage specialization, well suck? My first ability is to cast spells using life instead of mana. But when I'm all out of mana and need a quick boost, I'll just throw a lyrium potion. I don't think I'll ever want to deal damage to myself instead.

[Dhavaer]

Blood Mage is mostly pointless until level 14, when you get Blood Wound. It's win button against anything that isn't undead, a demon or a golem. Blood Magic also has a slight advantage in that it reduces the costs of spells by 20%, or 40% with the boost items.

[factotum]

Blood Mage is mostly pointless until level 14, when you get Blood Wound. It's win button against anything that isn't undead, a demon or a golem.

Shame that 90% of the stuff you face by the time you're level 14 seems to be undead, demonic or a golem... :smallwink:

[Dhavaer]

Really? There's a bunch of them halfway through the Deep Roads, and there's Redcliff, but for the most part it's darkspawn as far as the eye can see.

[Yora]

I'm also very disappointed with the robes. I've been through redcliffe and the brecilian forest about to enter the ruins, and the only robe I found so far is the chasind robe.
At least it's not as awful as the robes I got from the tower but it always makes me think they could just have put the +6 defense on a ring and leave me completely naked. It's not as if the robe would be much more than slightly oversized underwar. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Loss]

I gave Morrigan Arcane warrior Arcane Warrior as her second spec and threw on a suit of armor w/ helmet. It looked ridiculous... :smallbiggrin:

@ Yora: Good robes are, in my experience, hard to find. Second-spec as an Arcane warrior for armor or just use the ones you buy from shops.

[Morty]

Yeah, there's a shortage of good robes in Origins that don't look silly like the Tevinter robes. In my Mage playthrough, I wore the Senior Enchanter robes I took from Wynne until I could buy the First Enchanter robes.

[Yora]

The normal tower robes aren't that bad, but the ones I got are both anoyingly frilly and way overdressed for adventuring.
Wynns travel robe from Ostagar would be nice.

Hm, shops. Never thought of that. The last time I spend coins on anything except potions and ammunition in an RPG was in Baldur's Gate 1. And that only sparingly once I knew where all the really good stuff can be looted. :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

Hm, shops. Never thought of that. The last time I spend coins on anything except potions and ammunition in an RPG was in Baldur's Gate 1. And that only sparingly once I knew where all the really good stuff can be looted. :smallbiggrin:
Shops actually do have a significant portion of the game's best gear, you know.

Most of the stuff you'll find in shops is useless junk, yes, but there is the occasional super item mixed in. You can typically spot them by the enormous price tag - often above 100 sovereigns. There's also the Tomes and Manuals, somewhere around 20 sovereigns each, that give permanent stat boosts or extra skills or spells/talents, and you should always be on the lookout for backpacks until your inventory space hits the maximum of 125.

[Lord Loss]

Aye. I found a crazy good armor that costed most of the cash I had accumulated. I almost bought it, for my main character, but instead I got Oghren and myself Grandmaster runes for our weapons.

[Muz]

I had a fridge logic moment the other day:

Why does Morrigan, who as I understand grew up living in Flemeth's hut, have a different accent than her mother? :smallwink:

[Giggling Ghast]

You can find some great stuff for blood mages in Awakening, though I suppose that doesn't help you.

You could download Golems of Amgarrak; there's a belt in there that will improve blood magic which will transfer to your Origins saves, provided you complete the DLC.


I had a fridge logic moment the other day:

Why does Morrigan, who as I understand grew up living in Flemeth's hut, have a different accent than her mother? :smallwink:

I believe Morrigan deliberately developed the accent based on her forays into the outside world. Most people in Ferelden speak with a quasi-British accent. The antiquated expressions, like her frequent use of "Tis", is based on the old books she spent most of her life reading.

[Yora]

And Morrigan is also a bit of a poser. Who puts on eyeshadow when just roaming through the swamps as she does every day for about 30 years?
Despite what she claims, she tries really really hard to be a normal human. :smallbiggrin:

[Arcanoi]

And Morrigan is also a bit of a poser. Who puts on eyeshadow when just roaming through the swamps as she does every day for about 30 years?
Despite what she claims, she tries really really hard to be a normal human. :smallbiggrin:

Not to mention the way she dresses...

[factotum]

Yes, but it's possible that was all part of her plan--you know the plan I mean! Maybe Flemeth told her to dress that way the morning she encountered the Grey Warden Commander for the first time. :smallwink:

[Avilan the Grey]

Shops actually do have a significant portion of the game's best gear, you know.

Most of the stuff you'll find in shops is useless junk, yes, but there is the occasional super item mixed in. You can typically spot them by the enormous price tag - often above 100 sovereigns.

There are two decent robes at the Mage Shop in Denerim, AFAIR. Plus if you are playing a Blood Mage the robe you get from killing Avernus is pretty good.


And Morrigan is also a bit of a poser. Who puts on eyeshadow when just roaming through the swamps as she does every day for about 30 years?
Despite what she claims, she tries really really hard to be a normal human. :smallbiggrin:

She is no worse than most women her age or younger; if you talk to her you will get the Mirror story very early. Also, she is no stranger to sex. She might not be good at, or think that she needs, Love or Friendship, but she is far from being a virgin. She is quite... skilled, actually.

[The Rose Dragon]

She is quite... skilled, actually.

...how do you know?

Now that I have finished Dragon Age II with one of my old imports, I'm thinking of recreating my default stories (both saves were deleted when I changed my computer): the Dalish elf girl who is insistent on getting Alistair to sleep with everybody, and the casteless dwarf who just wants a simple life for himself and his family. That does mean getting the DLC I missed, however, especially the Witch Hunt.

And while I'm at it, I'd romance Leliana and Zevran to import one of each as well, so I can see their reactions in the second game.

I just need lots of time to do that. Maybe the spring break, if there aren't midterms immediately afterwards.

[Avilan the Grey]

...how do you know?

Well apart from her statement to Alistair at the end (along the lines of "you might hate this much less than you think you will") she obviously knows what she is doing.

[The Rose Dragon]

Well apart from her statement to Alistair at the end (along the lines of "you might hate this much less than you think you will") she obviously knows what she is doing.

That proves nothing, except that she thinks she is skilled. And there is a fine line between confidence and over-confidence.

[Avilan the Grey]

That proves nothing, except that she thinks she is skilled. And there is a fine line between confidence and over-confidence.

I would take my chances with her... (ahem) anyway, I disagree. And my original point was that she is far from being a virgin. Why shouldn't a sexually active young woman try to look good?

[Giggling Ghast]

...how do you know?

If you befriend Morrigan as a male character, she states that she has "been with men physically" and even had a few profess love for her. (She didn't even know that it was possible to enter a friendship with a male.)

One thing that's important to remember about Morrigan is that Flemeth raised her to be a true Witch of the Wild, which includes playing the role of a seductress who uses men like playthings and then disposes of them. This comes up during a dialogue with Leliana:

Morrigan: My mother's stories curdled my blood and haunted my dreams. No little girl wants to hear about the Wilder men her mother took to her bed, using them till they were spent, then killing them. No little girl wants to be told that this is also expected of her once she comes of age.

[The Rose Dragon]

Experience does not necessitate skill, either.

[Giggling Ghast]

Experience does not necessitate skill, either.

Well, if you want to get nitpicky about it, there's no way to gauge the 'skill' of a video game character as a lover. So perhaps Avilan mis-spoke when he said she was skilled, and should have said "experienced". Would that suffice?

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, if you want to get nitpicky about it, there's no way to gauge the 'skill' of a video game character in bed. So perhaps Avilan mis-spoke when he said she was skilled, and should have said "experienced". Would that suffice?

It would, yes.

((Though she can be lying.))

[Giggling Ghast]

((Though she can be lying.))

To what end? Morrigan lies quite easily, but only when it suits her needs. Lying about her previous sexual activity poses no benefit. This is particularly true in the friendship speech I mentioned before, as Morrigan is trying to be sincere there.

[Arbitrarity]

If you want a technical response that might work better:


It is implied that she is quite... skilled, actually.

Also, one of the break-up options with Leliana is "Morrigan was better in bed". True story :smallamused:

[mangosta71]

RE Wizard robes: The one you get for completing...I think it's Witch Hunt...is really good, and is in your starting inventory. And by "really good" I mean it outclasses anything else in both Origins and Awakening.

[Giggling Ghast]

You're referring to the Vestments of the Seer (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Vestments_of_the_Seer)? Yeah, it's insanely good. And you don't need to do anything except complete Witch Hunt to get it.

[Lord Loss]

Ugh. I'm stuck at the Archdemon and keep dying at the mid-segment. What strategy can I use to actually kill the darn thing?

[mangosta71]

Keeping your group together is the main thing - the AI will set your companions to chasing darkspawn on the other side of the battlefield where they get overwhelmed singly. If your tactics are set up in such a way that you didn't have any trouble with the ogres and emissary right before exiting onto the roof, your party can handle Archie as long as you keep them grouped up.

The archdemon fight is also the only place where using allies is more help than hindrance. You're getting swarmed by mooks? A battalion of dwarves (or Eamon's troops, if you've already lost the dwarves) will hold them at bay. The dragon is in the air or on one of the platforms that can't be reached on foot? Elven archers can reach him. So can mages.

[Lord Loss]

I finally managed to beat it. I was a really, really good character last time (a heroic Casteless rogue), so I think I'll go with an evil elven chick this time... :smallamused:

Also, if I'm going to buy some DLC, which are good? I'm thinking of buying The Stone Prisoner, Witch Hunt and Leliana's song, as well as perhaps Awakening.

[The Rose Dragon]

If you have an original, first-hand copy, the Stone Prisoner should be free. Other than that, I would buy the Witch Hunt, just to have a definite ending to the Warden other than death, and Awakenings, even though it's not a DLC.

[Avilan the Grey]

Edit: Regarding the final fight!

I didn't have much trouble with her last time I played (3 days ago). However part of the reason was I had high enough cunning to get a bonus army; the Legion Of The Dead, which shows up on the rooftop without being called if you manage to persuade them to join the fight top side when you meet them.

I am not sure if they made a lot of difference though (I also called the Redcliffe army); I killed it on Normal without loosing more than 50% health per party member (Me (DW rogue), Alistair, Wynne and Morrigan). It really helps to abuse the Hexes. Especially the Misdirection hex that makes the Archdemon miss most of it's attacks.



I finally managed to beat it. I was a really, really good character last time (a heroic Casteless rogue), so I think I'll go with an evil elven chick this time... :smallamused:

Also, if I'm going to buy some DLC, which are good? I'm thinking of buying The Stone Prisoner, Witch Hunt and Leliana's song, as well as perhaps Awakening.

Stone Prisoner, even if it's not free for you, is worth it. It is one of the funniest characters in the game, and pulls it's own weight by far. It also adds new debt to the Deep Roads making them more interesting.

I also find Return to Ostagar worth the money because of the gear alone.

[Lord Loss]

I just learnt you can't have multiple characters at once... there goes my Warden :smallsigh:.

[mangosta71]

Wait, what? When you click on load, there should be an option to switch characters. I have at least half a dozen characters that I started up before deciding that I disliked something about them enough to make me stop playing, but they're still there if I ever want to go back.

[Giggling Ghast]

I don't know where you got that idea, Lord Loss. Most people have multiple characters.

[Lord Loss]

Well, would you look at that. Thanks mangosta! Also, the best moment in the game is when you meet Sandal at the very end surrounded by many, many darkspawn corpses... :smallbiggrin:

Enchantment?
What happened here, Sandal?
EN-Chantment!

[Muz]

It's been a while, but the most helpful thing for me in the archdemon fight was spirit balms. That breath weapon is a killer otherwise.

[Arbitrarity]

I'm going to say it:
It is quite possible to solo the archdemon without calling in any armies. You will burn quite a few potions (~20-30: I saved up all game for no real reason, so I had 20 Potent Health potions and around 80 greater). You'll also need Corruption or Greater Spirit Balm, or other sources of STRONG spirit resistance. Basic Spirit Balm can do in a pinch.

Easiest (and boring) way to do it is just spam ballista bolts. Get a rogue, go to a ballista in a tower, and just spam it until the Archdemon is severely injured or the ballista breaks. Repeat with any other ballista in range. The more fun approach is to circle-strafe the archdemon with melee characters, while chugging potions to deal with massive attacks, though that is much easier if not controlling an entire party.

[Joran]

I finally managed to beat it. I was a really, really good character last time (a heroic Casteless rogue), so I think I'll go with an evil elven chick this time... :smallamused:

Also, if I'm going to buy some DLC, which are good? I'm thinking of buying The Stone Prisoner, Witch Hunt and Leliana's song, as well as perhaps Awakening.

I'd go with Stone Prisoner and Awakening. Leliana's Song and Witch Hunt were disappointments.

I think I was most disappointed with Leliana's Song because it didn't reveal any additional information about her background that we already didn't know.

[Giggling Ghast]

I'd go with Stone Prisoner and Awakening. Leliana's Song and Witch Hunt were disappointments.

I think I was most disappointed with Leliana's Song because it didn't reveal any additional information about her background that we already didn't know.

The story in Leliana's Song does vary from Leli's version of events in Dragon Age: Origins. It's basically a fun little heist story/revenge tale that has some extra flavour for players who preferred the City Elf origin.

Plus, the Battledress of the Provocateur, which is only available through LS, is a terrific piece of chest armour for rogues. Once it transferred to my Origins saves, either my rogue or Leliana wore it for the rest of the game.

YMMV on Witch Hunt, but I thought it was a fun little adventure with some really funny dialogue. And if you get all the achievements, you get some really good gear for Origins and Awakening.

However, the Stone Prisoner is the best DLC, bar none. If you get anything, get TSP.

[mangosta71]

Warden's Keep is pretty good, too. I'd probably rank it under Stone Prisoner, but above any of the others.

[Joran]

The story in Leliana's Song does vary from Leli's version of events in Dragon Age: Origins. It's basically a fun little heist story/revenge tale that has some extra flavour for players who preferred the City Elf origin.

Plus, the Battledress of the Provocateur, which is only available through LS, is a terrific piece of chest armour for rogues. Once it transferred to my Origins saves, either my rogue or Leliana wore it for the rest of the game.


Oh, no doubt about the Battledress of the Provocateur; I had it on my Rogue Warden and was nigh-unkillable. I just don't like paying real money for in-game goods and the DLCs were pretty short.

My issue with the DLC was that we didn't learn anything new about Leliana, nothing about why she joined the Chantry or where her faith comes from. It fills in some stuff about the mechanics of how she was betrayed and how's that resolved but otherwise, nothing particularly enlightening about her character.

[Avilan the Grey]

Warden's Keep is pretty good, too. I'd probably rank it under Stone Prisoner, but above any of the others.

You are right; I forgot that.

Priority for DLCs:

1. Stone Prisoner - a must have because of Shale plus some really good gear.
2. Warden's keep - For the extra merchant, weaponsmith and über-sword. Plus the special strongbox.
3. Return to Ostagar - for the gear only

Everything else: Not worth it.

[Lord Loss]

I think I'll start with Witch Hunt and/or Leliana's song, as they sound good and inexpensive, and then go for the Stone Prisoner or Awakening later (they're more costly than the other DLC).

[Giggling Ghast]

My issue with the DLC was that we didn't learn anything new about Leliana, nothing about why she joined the Chantry or where her faith comes from. It fills in some stuff about the mechanics of how she was betrayed and how's that resolved but otherwise, nothing particularly enlightening about her character.

Again, YMMV. It's subtle, but I do think you start to see Leliana realizing that the life of a bard wasn't what she wanted, particularly when she's brought back to the Denerim Chantry.

[Arbitrarity]

Oh, no doubt about the Battledress of the Provocateur; I had it on my Rogue Warden and was nigh-unkillable. I just don't like paying real money for in-game goods and the DLCs were pretty short.


Isn't the Felon's Coat better than the Battledress?

[Lord Loss]

I've been reading up on Witch Hunt, apparently we learn nothing new about the plot, it only gives us the same conclusion as before, again (Morrigan leaving without any explanation).

[Joran]

Again, YMMV. It's subtle, but I do think you start to see Leliana realizing that the life of a bard wasn't what she wanted, particularly when she's brought back to the Denerim Chantry.

I thought she liked the life of a bard up until Marjolaine went all Brutus on her.

[Giggling Ghast]

Isn't the Felon's Coat better than the Battledress?

It has much better dexterity and armour bonuses, but the Battledress comes with a healthy stamina boost, and if you finish Leliana's Song, you can start the game with the Battledress.

Plus, the Felon's Coat is damned expensive and it only accessible if you're willing to hold off on getting Wade's drakeskin armour sets.


I've been reading up on Witch Hunt, apparently we learn nothing new about the plot, it only gives us the same conclusion as before, again (Morrigan leaving without any explanation).

There aren't a lot of answers to be had, 'tis true. Morrigan does not share why she wished to create a child born with the soul of an Old God, and hints that a time of "great change" is coming to Thedas. She also warns the Warden that Flemeth's return is inevitable.

The DLC might prove more satisfying if you either romanced Morrigan or plan to kill her.


I thought she liked the life of a bard up until Marjolaine went all Brutus on her.

She did, very much. But she also comes to realize that the life of a bard is not exactly what she thought it was and the parallels between her and Marjolaine.

[Joran]

She did, very much. But she also comes to realize that the life of a bard is not exactly what she thought it was and the parallels between her and Marjolaine.

Right, but I didn't quite get why she joined the Chantry vs. becoming a performer or storyteller or something else that fit into her natural talents and love for adventure.

[mangosta71]

Witch Hunt is worth it if you ever want to play a non-Arcane Warrior mage.

[Giggling Ghast]

Right, but I didn't quite get why she joined the Chantry vs. becoming a performer or storyteller or something else that fit into her natural talents and love for adventure.

That part could have been elaborated upon better. You get a little bit of it, like the moment where Leliana looks up at the statue of Andraste. But not a lot of it.

[Avilan the Grey]

Witch Hunt is worth it if you ever want to play a non-Arcane Warrior mage.

I never play an arcane warrior mage because I don't like the look of them.

[Nero24200]

Just finished Golems of Amerrack and Witch hunt...I have to say they are both a bit of a let down.

The Golems one is just plain awful. It's self-contained (not related to any other part of the game) and looks like they just copy'n'pasted parts of Ortan Thaig and Kal'Hirol (minus the darkspawn slime).

The same applies to Witch Hunt. You just run though very familier areas only to get the same vague, cryptic messages from Morrigan at the end.

In all honesty, if I knew what most of the DLC would be like, the only ones I would still get are Return to Ostegar, Warden's Keep and the Stone Prisoner. The rest are meh at best and just plain bad at worse.

[Morty]

Witch Hunt is worth it if you ever want to play a non-Arcane Warrior mage.

Funny, I've finished the game with a non-AW mage twice without Witch Hunt...
With that said, I think I'm going to get Witch Hunt now that I have a PayPal account. It looks like it's worth it.

[Giggling Ghast]

The Golems one is just plain awful. It's self-contained (not related to any other part of the game) and looks like they just copy'n'pasted parts of Ortan Thaig and Kal'Hirol (minus the darkspawn slime).

Yes, they re-used parts of both maps, and yes, it's a self-contained adventure. But what's wrong with that? I found it be a pretty good horror story.


Funny, I've finished the game with a non-AW mage twice without Witch Hunt...
With that said, I think I'm going to get Witch Hunt now that I have a PayPal account. It looks like it's worth it.

It does contain four really great items that can be transferred to your Origins saves and it's a fun little story, even if it doesn't provide a lot of answers.

[Morty]

Well, I finished Witch Hunt. It was pretty fun; combat was on the easy side - but that's really because I used my character that had finished Awakenings, where the combat was easy as well - but there was some decent writing and callbacks to earlier events. I especially liked how it expanded upon the Dalish Elf origin; I'll probably play through this with my Dalish Elf character even though I haven't finished Origins with her. Though it was a little suspicious how everything important was located in places I had been to... :smalltongue:
As for the ending, I decided to have my Grey Warden who had romanced Morrigan in Origins go with her through the Eluvian. It was a decisive ending and besdies, I figured he'd decide that he's done enough for the world and it was time to pursue his own goals.

[Kallisti]

We were underwhelmed by the Dalish Elf connection in Witch Hunt. We played it through with a Dalish warden and the difference in that playthrough from Our human was...minimal.

That said, We do like the Witch Hunt ending, even though it doesn't give any real answers to the player. It gives a nice sense of closure for the character.

Also, it was fun. We especially enjoyed the fight against the Varterral. There aren't enough truly challenging fights in Dragon Age, especially at the higher levels.

For DLC, We'd say Stone Prisoner and Awakenings are your best bets. Awakenings is fantastic. We enjoyed the story, We enjoyed the gameplay, and a decent portion of the encounters were genuinely challenging even with an optimized party. The Village of Honnleath in Stone Prisoner was underwhelming, but Shale is awesome and a very powerful party member, you get some nice gear, and Shale is awesomehttp://i.imgur.com/eylO3.png. Return to Ostagar and Warden's Keep both give you some cool new toys--the Return to Ostagar gear has some of the strongest Stamina Regeneration around, the Power of Blood abilities are cool (except Bloody Grasp, which is useless and buggy), having access to a storage chest is nice, and the famous Item Tier Bug is convenient and should have been built into the game proper--but fluff-wise neither of them felt...substantial.

[LordShotGun]

Well I just did something I never thought I would do. That is convince the werewolfs to kill the dalish and now I am curious how that effects DA2.

Also I found it funny that Wynne was the only one to complain about us slaughtering the elves and even then with a persuasion check it was only a -3. Alistar and Leliana could not care less.:smallconfused:

[Avilan the Grey]

We were underwhelmed by the Dalish Elf connection in Witch Hunt. We played it through with a Dalish warden and the difference in that playthrough from Our human was...minimal.

DA2:
The Dalish connection to Witch Hunt, AND the Dalish origin comes back in DA2.

[The Rose Dragon]

Here's a question for those of you who are more completionist than I am: what happens if you are a Human Noble who chooses to appoint Alistair as the king become his consort at the end and sacrifices Alistair when fighting the Archdemon? Does Anora come back to become the queen? Do you become the sole ruler of Ferelden?

I doubt the latter is going to happen, but it would be truly manipulative on the Warden's end if it did.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Here's a question for those of you who are more completionist than I am: what happens if you are a Human Noble who chooses to appoint Alistair as the king become his consort at the end and sacrifices Alistair when fighting the Archdemon? Does Anora come back to become the queen? Do you become the sole ruler of Ferelden?

I doubt the latter is going to happen, but it would be truly manipulative on the Warden's end if it did.
If you want spoilers, there's nothing more complete than the Dragon Age Wiki (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Age_Wiki). Specifically, the link to Epilogue (Origins) (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Epilogue_%28Origins%29).

[Arbitrarity]

Golems of Angarrak makes me mad. The lack of interaction or any normal roleplaying mechanics is bad, but sort of comprehensible. The copy-pasted environments are survivable. But really, it was supposed to be about the combat, so what do we get?

A whole bunch of fights that require you to deliberately break the combat system to win. Whether it's "lol respec accuracy on everyone" or "lol invulnerable tank goooo", there's no real way to deal with a few of the fights that doesn't feel like cheating. Mostly the boss fight though. Those skeletons are some of the most ridiculous enemies I have ever seen.

[Dacia Brabant]

Well I finally beat it with my HNF Rogue and I have to say it was quite a bit more fulfilling than my Mage.

The fights on my way leading up to it were really hard, but I did leave Wynne behind for some odd reason (took Alistair, Morrigan and my lady love) so I had to rely on outdamaging everything and hoping my allied troops could absorb some casualties. But the Archdemon wasn't that bad: Spirit Balms helped a lot, but I think the real difference-maker was having the Legion there to handle the adds. They completely locked down the battlefield. Very glad I convinced them to join the fight.

After the battle,

I was surprised, given what I'd read online about the problems people were having with this, that I was able to keep the relationship with Leliana despite marrying Alistair and that it even showed up in the Epilogue that she stays in Denerim rather than going off to the Deep Roads. I thought that this was bugged but I guess it's been fixed. Yay!

Was kind of strange to have Alistair say "I know we're not exactly friends" though, since his approval was in the 90s, but I guess that's the default response to a political marriage.


Looking forward to playing her through Awakening.

[Arbitrarity]

All right.
Going for a new playthrough as a Two handed warrior (ess).
Installed Random Age, (set on 5/5 difficulty), Combat Tweaks, extra Dog slot, Nightmare difficulty, and a respec mod.


This is absurdly hard.
Saving Connor in the Fade: Before the actual boss, I encountered 4 abominations, a spirit archer (25 damage per shot, never misses), a spirit warrior (appears to have Assault and related Sword and Board talents, deals 20ish damage per hit), and an evil skeleton mage (Curse of Mortality fuuuuu). At the same time. As a single character. Who has around 125 health.

Yeah, so Wynne didn't cut it. I proceeded to do it with Irving. I died approximately 10 times before successfully pulling just the mage and abominations, Paralysis Explosioning the entire group, and dropping Tempest on them.
Then I saved. Then I Misdirection Hexed the archer, Paralysis Glyphed the warrior... and couldn't kill the archer before the warrior beat my face in with Overpower and Shield Pummel (20 damage a hit is bad for Irving's health). So I did it again, with Tempest used out of range, and finally managed to finish.
Aghhhhh I should have used Morrigan

Update: There I was, all "oh, I have enough overpowered random gear I can do this now"
Then I added difficulty scaling mods. THE MATH IT SLAYS ME

Further updating to avoid double posting:
Then I got to awakening, and everything was easy. So I modded my difficulty scaling mod. But I renamed it, which set everything back to default. After scaling enemies up by a factor of 30 on health, I then realized my mistake, changed the name....
AND ENCOUNTERED WHITES WITH OVER 9000 HEALTH

I proceeded to kill them with a mix of heavy CC from warriors, Peon's Plight, Combat Tweaks Critical Blow, and Shattering.
I decided to scale their health back by a factor of 4. I'm considering a factor of 8. 2500 health is probably still a bit much.

[Forbiddenwar]

Encountered the game killing Silverite mines bug in Awakenings and now have lost all interest in Dragon Age.
I had thought that buying games years after their release would prevent encountered game killing bugs, joke's on me I guess.

At any rate, does anyone know what to do? Bioware Support said they were "working on it" but that was
1) Over a year ago
2) Prior to the ultimate edition release (which I have, it is completely bugged out)
3) Prior to Dragon Age 2, which I'm sure they are actually trying to fix.

Also, If I do decide to start over from the beginning (15 hours of gameplay down the tube), and if I do figure out a way past this bug, are there any other game killing bugs in Awakenings or any of the other DLC I should know about? Forewarned is Forearmed.

[mangosta71]

There's a fix for that bug (and several others, link is for that specific one) at DA Nexus (http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1762). Search for bugfix on the site for the rest.

[Giggling Ghast]

Encountered the game killing Silverite mines bug in Awakenings and now have lost all interest in Dragon Age

Which one? There are three major bugs that I'm aware of with the Silverite Mine.


I had thought that buying games years after their release would prevent encountered game killing bugs, joke's on me I guess.

Supposedly the bugs associated with the Silverite Mine couldn't be fixed. I'm not a programmer so I can't explain, confirm or refute the reasons for it.


Also, If I do decide to start over from the beginning (15 hours of gameplay down the tube), and if I do figure out a way past this bug, are there any other game killing bugs in Awakenings or any of the other DLC I should know about? Forewarned is Forearmed.

The only other bad bugs in Awakening that I'm aware of are the bugs associated with the companion quests for Sigrun and Velanna. Sigrun's quest can't be accessed if you perform Law and Order first, and Velanna's quest is incredibly difficult to trigger.

[Arbitrarity]

You can manually add items to inventory via console with AddItem Scripty (http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1131). Requires Dragon Age Toolset to look up specific names though, since things like lifegiver probably aren't easy to guess codes for.
Also, there's a manual fix to spawn Sigrun's friend after Law and Order was completed.

[Forbiddenwar]

Which one? There are three major bugs that I'm aware of with the Silverite Mine.


The "You just spent 300 gold outfitting your main character. Now all your main character equipment is gone and completely unrecoverable" bug.



Supposedly the bugs associated with the Silverite Mine couldn't be fixed. I'm not a programmer so I can't explain, confirm or refute the reasons for it.


And yet someone had created a fix for it, a year ago, the moment it was discovered. (Thanks mangosta71 for finding that)
I just can't seem to get the fix to work with my Steam ultimate edition. I can't even find my override directory, and doesn't steam block cheats like adding things to your inventory?

Or maybe I'm doing something wrong? I too am not a programmer. I'll keep trying.

Thanks for listening to my "Annoying bug is annoying" post. I feel better now.:smallsmile:

[mangosta71]

Oh, yeah. For the Steam version, the override folder is somewhere totally different. But since I have the non-Steam version, I didn't commit the location to memory.

[Douglas]

The "You just spent 300 gold outfitting your main character. Now all your main character equipment is gone and completely unrecoverable" bug.
Load up a save from before entering the mine (you did make multiple saves in different slots, right?) and take off your equipment before going in. Only equipment you are actually wearing at the time is ever affected, not your inventory, and I think it's usually caused by items that are restricted to specific characters.

You can try partial disarmament and guessing which item is the problem. If you wake up naked (rather than with junk clothes) after being captured and still have some of your non-equipped inventory, the bug still happened and you need to reload and take off something else or something more.

[Giggling Ghast]

Another possible fix is to strip the main character before the Architect knocks you out. That way, your main character's equipment will be placed in the chest you find with your surplus inventory before the fight with the Dragon Thralls. I've heard it works for other people.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

[Arbitrarity]

Steam doesn't care about modding or cheating in singleplayer games. It cares if you play nice (VAC) with others, and that's about as far as it goes. Just open the properties on Dragon Age (/Awakening?) and add -enabledeveloperconsole to the run flags. Install the mod, should be user/documents/bioware/Dragon Age/core/packages/override (make the folder if you have to, as long as the user/documents/bioware/Dragon Age is there)
For dazips, use daupdater, in Program Files(x86)/steam/steamapps/common/Dragon Age/bin_ship

[Kish]

Very quick slightly off topic mechanics question:

I just bought the Ultimate Edition, which includes Origins and Awakenings and all the DLC.

If I play through Awakenings and open up all of the Specializations, can I start a new game in Origins and use the Awakenings Specialization in it? For example, if I open up Battlemage and Keeper, can I start a new game as a Mage and take the Keeper Specialization at level 7?
No.

You can't take them in Awakening until you're over level 20, and you can't use any Awakening content in Origins at all, ever.

[JadedDM]

From what I understand, though, there is a mod out there that lets you use Awakening stuff in Origins, like stamina potions. But most of the gear and talents in Awakening require you to be level 20+, so...

[Forbiddenwar]

I think I got past the silverite bug in the steam ultimate edition. Stripped the main character naked. The patch provided doesn't work with the Steam Ultimate edition.
Thank-you for all your help.

[The Rose Dragon]

I have a problem.

I reinstalled Origins recently, after having some problems with installing new DLC, such as Witch Hunt. However, now I cannot access any DLC, as the downloadable content bars are just empty, even when I install the old ones.

Anyone know why that might be?

[mangosta71]

Reinstalling may have wiped the folders where your DLC files were stored. Have you tried downloading your DLCs again from the Bioware social site?

[Serpentine]

I'm still playing it. I just wanted to lament:
I really, really like Jowan. I wish they'd stuck with the original plan, and let you concript him into the party :smallfrown:

[Gamerlord]

So, a friend apparently is getting me this for my birthday.
Any tips for a newbie? The wiki has disturbingly few.

[Dacia Brabant]

The Silverite Mine bug also got me, but thankfully I was prepared for it. I just can't believe something like that is still in the game when it's been patched several times. :smallmad:


So, a friend apparently is getting me this for my birthday.
Any tips for a newbie? The wiki has disturbingly few.

Make sure to bring a Rogue and a Mage--the game gives you up to two of each in case you don't want to make one yourself. There's a lot of locked chests that you don't want to miss out on, enough traps to be inconvenient, and you gotta have some healing, going with only potions just isn't very fun.

As far as your character goes, I'd suggest playing a couple different origins to see which one you like. Of course if you want to roll a Mage you're pretty much stuck with that (without modding anyway), but the other classes have several options.

[Yora]

Not that the origins make any difference once you finished the prolog. When the 1st chapter starts, the rest of the game is 98% the same, no matter which origin you pick.

One tiny tip which I find incredibly helpful: Once you've been recruited by Duncan and arrive in Ostagar, go straight to the merchant and buy a backpack, which increases your inventory by 10 slots. When you finished your mission into the wilds and return to Ostagar, go to him again and he will have another backpack to sell, which you should also buy.
The increased inventory space means you don't have to leave as much treasure behind, which means you'll have more money on the long run. Backpacks are also usually quite expensive, but the two you can buy at Ostagar are very cheap. So make sure to get them.

I agree about Jowan. As a blood mage, I really wanted to free him from the dungeon. Since it doesn't change the plot at all, at least helping him to escape would have been nice. But he would also have been exactly the kind of guy I would have wanted for my party.

[Dienekes]

To each there own. I never liked Jowan, and felt the continuous urge to repeatedly hit him on the head and tell him to stop being an idiot.

At least he fesses up to his mistakes at the end.

[Giggling Ghast]

So, a friend apparently is getting me this for my birthday.
Any tips for a newbie? The wiki has disturbingly few.

Warriors are generally under-powered. Rogues are slightly better, but they tend to get pigeon-holed into back-stabbing. Mages are always powerful.

Your mileage will vary, but the "best" Origins in terms of story are generally regarded to be the City Elf origin, the Dwarf Noble and the Dwarf Commoner origin.

Watch what you say around companions, or they may think you're hitting on them.

When you get to Redcliffe … demand a third option. That's all I can say without giving away spoilers.

[factotum]

Warriors are generally under-powered.

Depends on your viewpoint--I had many, many fights in DA:O where my sword-and-board dwarven warrior was the only one who survived a fight due to the prodigious amounts of damage he could soak up!

[Dienekes]

Depends on your viewpoint--I had many, many fights in DA:O where my sword-and-board dwarven warrior was the only one who survived a fight due to the prodigious amounts of damage he could soak up!

It's more of, there's nothing that a warrior can do that a properly specced rogue or mage can't. Yeah, if you're playing un-optimally (which I'm going to guess most people do), rogues and warriors are more or less equal, and the fire power of mages is scary and obvious but they're squishiness leads to them being swingy, either they win or they go down bleeding.

When you actually try to break the game, a duel weapon rogue can be about as tanky as a shield warrior and deal way more damage per second, though admittedly it takes a few levels for it to kick in.

And as far as origins go the best are, in order:
Human Noble: Easily the best origin villain, and interesting enough characters without being too long.
Dwarven Noble: Second best origin villain, and gives you actual power and influence to make interesting decisions.
Dwarven Commoner: An interesting story of survival and the chance to really stick it to the upper classes. Interesting characters and setting.
Elf Commoner: Third best origin villain, and really makes you feel for the plight of the elves. Probably makes you feel the most heroic over the course of an origin, but that's just me.

The worst are:
Mage: Dull, and it feels long. All that it really is good for is showing if you like or dislike Jowan.
Dalish Elf: Ughh.

[VanBuren]

Now see, I would have put Human Noble over the Dwarf Commoner. But that's just me.

[mangosta71]

Nobody in the history of the universe has liked the Dalish origin. Very few like the mage origin. The rest range from "very good" to "excellent", with the overall best varying from person to person.

It's also worth noting that the city elf origin is the only one that changes depending on your character's gender.

[Gamerlord]

Nobody in the history of the universe has liked the Dalish origin. Very few like the mage origin. The rest range from "very good" to "excellent", with the overall best varying from person to person.

It's also worth noting that the city elf origin is the only one that changes depending on your character's gender.

The mage origin is bad? Like, "Not as good as the others" bad or "WHAT IS THIS ABOMINATION?!" bad?

[VanBuren]

The mage origin is bad? Like, "Not as good as the others" bad or "WHAT IS THIS ABOMINATION?!" bad?

It's just a bit meh compared to the others.

Anyway, the Dalish origin is short at least.

[Douglas]

I kinda liked the mage origin. Then again, that might be more liking the mage class than the origin, hard to tell.

[Giggling Ghast]

Human Noble origin's kind of a cliché storm. A lampshaded cliché storm, but still.

Plus, all the rabid you-know-who fangirls pick the HN origin so they can end up with what-his-face. You wanna hang out with that crowd of weirdoes? :smalltongue:


Nobody in the history of the universe has liked the Dalish origin.

Now, see, that ain't true. I liked the Dalish origin well enough. And there are quite a few die-hard Dalish lovers. It's generally regarded as the weakest of the six origins.


The mage origin is bad? Like, "Not as good as the others" bad or "WHAT IS THIS ABOMINATION?!" bad?

It's a bit long, and opinion on one of the characters (Jowan) is very divisive.

(Funny you should mention abominations, heh.)

[VanBuren]

Human Noble origin's kind of a cliché storm. A lampshaded cliché storm, but still.

Yeah, but it's also the most closely integrated with the main plot (with Dwarf Noble a close second) and gives a powerful motivation for revenge.


Plus, all the rabid you-know-who fangirls pick the HN origin so they can end up with what-his-face. You wanna hang out with that crowd of weirdoes? :smalltongue:

Pssh. It's good to be the king.

[mangosta71]

Mage origin = "not as good as the others". You'll likely get the most enjoyment out of it if your first character is a mage - it's alright if you see it first, but after playing the others it's very lackluster.

Dalish origin = "WHAT IS THIS ABOMINATION?!"

After playing each origin multiple times, I still find the other four enjoyable.

[Dienekes]

Human Noble origin's kind of a cliché storm. A lampshaded cliché storm, but still.

Plus, all the rabid you-know-who fangirls pick the HN origin so they can end up with what-his-face. You wanna hang out with that crowd of weirdoes? :smalltongue:

I like it because at it's core it's simple, integral to the plot, and doesn't waste time getting into the meat of the story. It's fun and fairly self contained. A bit clichéd I'd agree, but not much more than the others.

Also, who do fangirls pick why?


Now, see, that ain't true. I liked the Dalish origin well enough. And there are quite a few die-hard Dalish lovers.

Well yeah, but these people are known as scientifically wrong.
I kid, I kid.

[Giggling Ghast]

Also, who do fangirls pick why?

Alistair's fangirls pick the HN origin because it's the only one where you can end up with Ali and choose him as king without becoming his mistress.

I prefer the CE origin due to the likeable supporting cast and the strength of the story. (You can say that Howe is a stronger villain, but Vaughan is a particularly hateful bastard.) It also meshes well with the rest of the storyline and demonstrates the plight of the elves in the Dragon Age universe better than the DE origin.

[VanBuren]

Alistair's fangirls pick the HN origin because it's the only one where you can end up with Ali and choose him as king without becoming his mistress.

He and I usually just become bros. But that's because HN is one of my "male" playthroughs.

[Dienekes]

Alistair's fangirls pick the HN origin because it's the only one where you can end up with Ali and choose him as king without becoming his mistress.

Right, right, I knew that wasn't thinking. Also helps that I never had the desire to seduce the individual in question I suppose.


I prefer the CE origin due to the likeable supporting cast and the strength of the story. (You can say that Howe is a stronger villain, but Vaughan is a particularly hateful bastard.) It also meshes well with the rest of the storyline and demonstrates the plight of the elves in the Dragon Age universe better than the DE origin.

A valid reason to prefer CE, but to me, Vaughan is essentially a random bully villain. He lives just to be a hateful cowardly bully, and that's about it. Boring. However, I will admit, that he was a particularly successful hateful cowardly bully. And there was much satisfaction when he died. Oh yes there was.

[Comet]

The City Elf origins is also good in the regard that you'll be quite a way into the game until you can re-enter the alienage and talk to all your folks after becoming a warden and a hero.

At least for me, that knowledge of a late-game reunion kept me going through the Deep Roads and all the other repetetive bores that would have otherwise negated my will to replay the game even once.

[Serpentine]

To each there own. I never liked Jowan, and felt the continuous urge to repeatedly hit him on the head and tell him to stop being an idiot.

At least he fesses up to his mistakes at the end.See, I just didn't see it. I don't see how any of his mistakes are terrible, awful, nasty, unforgivable. And then during that quest with lots of introspection... well, I wanted an "I think I did pretty well by him. I'm okay with what happened. What happened was his own fault, but it's no biggie, he's not a bad guy" option, instead of all that "oh if only I could have saved him from himself! D:" nonsense.
Wish I'd let him go, though :smallfrown:

Watch what you say around companions, or they may think you're hitting on them...."think"? :smallconfused:
What's wrong with that? :smalltongue:
Plus, all the rabid you-know-who fangirls pick the HN origin so they can end up with what-his-face. You wanna hang out with that crowd of weirdoes? :smalltongue:<.<
>.>
me v.v

[Arbitrarity]

<.<
>.>
me v.v

<.<
>.>
I had to do a HN playthrough sometime, and Anora = huge bitch

[Dienekes]

See, I just didn't see it. I don't see how any of his mistakes are terrible, awful, nasty, unforgivable. And then during that quest with lots of introspection... well, I wanted an "I think I did pretty well by him. I'm okay with what happened. What happened was his own fault, but it's no biggie, he's not a bad guy" option, instead of all that "oh if only I could have saved him from himself! D:" nonsense.

Oh, not all his mistakes are evil (except trying to become an assassin) but often his mistakes are idiotic.

Oh you have a girlfriend, you know you're surrounded by Templar right? Oh you think you're in love? But you're going to leave her behind and never talk about her again aren't you? Yeah, that's love for ya. Next time keep it in your pants.

So you're practicing blood magic. Once more, surrounded by Templar, blood magic = death. What possibly made you think this was a good idea? Trust me, you're going to get caught. Why should I feel sorry for you when you continuously set yourself up to fall?

Congratulations you've become an assassin. Next time try making sure your mark is actually evil. No, really, you tried to kill a guy for no reason but someone told you to. This is where you crossed the line Jowan.

So, I don't think he was evil, and never said he was. But he was an idiot, and I've always felt no matter what your intentions you must have consequences for your actions.

[SuperPanda]

On origin stories, I loved the city elf origin (female).

I liked the bit with Jowan myself (I betrayed him to the first enchanter and spared him later because I thought it was all my fault that those horrible things happened. I know meta-game that it wasn't).

Human Noble I haven't played through with, though I think Male (warrior) or female (rogue) are the ways to go if/when I do.

I played the dwarf origins but haven't done a play through with them might be high time to.

The Dalish origin struck me as the most forgetable, but now with DAII having a tie in I'm considering a playthrough as a Dalish hunter.

I'm planning on doing some full DA play through (origins > Awakening > II) (no golems or witch hunt since I don't have those).

haven't made up my mind which to do first, I need to go tweak which mods I'm using.

[Forbiddenwar]

I can't judge backgrounds, as I only played 1 (Casteless dwarf) I found that background to have a unique experience returning to Orgzammar.

Saving sister and brother in law, killing best friend etc

[ShinyRocks]

For me, Dwarf Noble is far and away the best. By a huge margin.

Then Human Noble. In no small part because your mother is totally fierce and should so have been a permanent party member. Also Dog.

I like the Mage one. It's interesting.

I didn't really like Dwarf Commoner, Dalish Elf is just ... so lacking in thought and content, and I'm not sure I ever got round to doing City Elf.

[mangosta71]

Dwarf nobles also have a different experience in Orzammar. Both dwarf origins give you strong in-character perspective on the situation in the city, really. I can't see anyone from any of the other origins realistically caring about the resolution there as much as my dwarves did - having seen both, now I usually just flip a coin for my human and elven runs.

[Morty]

One thing the Mage origin has going for it is the trip to the Fade. I think it's pretty cool, since I like the Fade in general.
What is unforgivable is the ending, though, namely the option to rat Jowan out. Being conscripted into the Grey Wardens feels forced in this case.

[Yora]

Being consrpited into the wardens always feels forced.
The Dalish Elf origin at least is plausible. "If you don't join, you'll die from darkspawn sickness". But the others all don't provide good reasons why one whould do the joining.
Maybe they had Duncan murder Jory to tell the player "No, your character could not have refused, or Duncan would have murdered him too".

[Forbiddenwar]

Being consrpited into the wardens always feels forced.
The Dalish Elf origin at least is plausible. "If you don't join, you'll die from darkspawn sickness".

How was that so different from the "Either you join or you spend the rest of your life in prison for murder" The casteless get?

[mangosta71]

The mage origin is the only one that's actually forced imo. I suppose, in theory, the human noble could hide in the hills and rally support. But the elves and dwarves would all die without the Wardens' intervention.

[Morty]

All origins seem a bit forced, yes, but the mage origin is the worst in this regard. How bad exactly depends on the choice you make...
Genuinely helping Jowan isn't quite as bad, because you'd get severely punished for helping a blood mage escape. However, if you rat him out and go with him on Irving's orders, he should help you get out of trouble, seeing as it was his idea and you were just obeying orders.

[Douglas]

What would happen if you don't accept recruitment into the Wardens:
Dalish Elf: die
City Elf: prison, with potential torture, execution, or other unpleasantness likely
Human Noble: die, or possible escape with no resources, no backup, and no allies
Dwarf Commoner: die in prison
Dwarf Noble: die fighting darkspawn alone in the Deep Roads
Mage: either punished, maybe even made Tranquil, or nothing much, depending on whether you told Irving about Jowan

In every case except a tattletale mage, joining the Wardens is a miraculous rescue from a terrible fate.

Or are you specifically talking about the non-possibility of changing your mind when you find out about the Joining's risk? Getting to that point is (aside from the aforementioned mage option) in every case taking the by far best option available to you, and once you're there the whole Jory incident makes it clear that you have to go through with it.

[Dacia Brabant]

Re: the tattletale mage option feeling forced, remember that the Circle is a pretty sucky place to be and you're essentially imprisoned there forever, so having an easy way out plus a path to respectability (or at least not living in fear of Templars or automatic ostracism from towns) is a pretty nice incentive to join. The necessity of it isn't spelled out though like it is for the other origins, that's true, but they can't exactly reveal Uldred and the real reason you'd best not stick around the Tower at that point.

[Giggling Ghast]

I had a minor bit of Fridge Brilliance about Flemeth.

As we learn in DA2, death is not a major obstacle to Flemeth (and that's all I can say without giving away spoilers).

Even if she knew you were coming and knew what the outcome of the fight would be, it still seems unnecessary and even contrary to her goals to actually battle the Warden, who she's depending on to sire the god-child (or to convince another Warden to do so). However, a thought occured to me about this line:

"Come. She will earn what she takes. I'd have it no other way."

All this time, I thought Flemeth was talking about herself and merely switching between speaking in the first and third person. But it's occured to me that when Flemeth says "she will earn what she takes," the witch was actually referring to Morrigan.

Morrigan must earn the grimoire, which is why Flemeth fights you. You are Morrigan's proxy.

[Spartacus]

"Come. She will earn what she takes. I'd have it no other way."

All this time, I thought Flemeth was talking about herself and merely switching between speaking in the first and third person. But it's occured to me that when Flemeth says "she will earn what she takes," the witch was actually referring to Morrigan.

Morrigan must earn the grimoire, which is why Flemeth fights you. You are Morrigan's proxy.

See, I've not thought about it possibly being interpreted any other way.

[Kish]

Me either. When has Flemeth ever spoken of herself in the third person?

[GloatingSwine]

Human Noble origin's kind of a cliché storm. A lampshaded cliché storm, but still.

Plus, all the rabid you-know-who fangirls pick the HN origin so they can end up with what-his-face. You wanna hang out with that crowd of weirdoes? :smalltongue:


Though if the ratio of achievements on trueachievements.org is to be believed (and I can't think of a reason why the site shouldn't be a reasonable sample group, it shouldn't display any bias towards a particular game), Human Noble is the most frequently completed origin, but whats-his-face is the least commonly romanced character (most having gotten swampy with Morrigan, with Leliana and Zevran tied for second).

I suspect people hate the Mage origin because it has the Fade in it, and everyone hates the Fade.

[VanBuren]

Though if the ratio of achievements on trueachievements.org is to be believed (and I can't think of a reason why the site shouldn't be a reasonable sample group, it shouldn't display any bias towards a particular game), Human Noble is the most frequently completed origin, but whats-his-face is the least commonly romanced character (most having gotten swampy with Morrigan, with Leliana and Zevran tied for second).

I suspect people hate the Mage origin because it has the Fade in it, and everyone hates the Fade.

It also has Jowan. Anything that has both the Fade and Jowan is awful, by definition.

[GloatingSwine]

It also has Jowan. Anything that has both the Fade and Jowan is awful, by definition.

Jowan did fall into the characterisation trap that all Blood Mages, at all times and in all places, are complete idiots who are going to **** up sooner rather than later and doom us all.

Actually, this was one of my biggest problems with Dragon Age, it was supposed to be all morally ambiguous and grey on grey and stuff, but really there was never any doubt that one side was entirely wrong. Blood Magic is not an "ends justify the means" route to obtaining power, it's 100% refined grade A stupid juice, and it is going to go horribly wrong every single time leading to the practitioner being possessed, dead, or both.

And yet people still do it. (And we are supposed to believe that the Tevinter Imperium once ruled the world with the stuff, what, did clever just die out some time in Thedas history?)

Same thing with Loghain, I get that there's supposed to be a point of view where his actions are sympathetic, but it falls apart because his methods are so completely and cartoonishly Stupid Evil, leading to not one but two major demon outbreaks and a civil war. Plus, y'know, big mates with Rendon Howe.

[Dienekes]

I suspect people hate the Mage origin because it has the Fade in it, and everyone hates the Fade.

I actually like the Fade, it's a nice different section from the normal game, and sure the main section can be a bit big, but the part in the mage origin is fairly short and interesting.

But VanBuran did hit on a second more important part of why it sucks. It contains Jowan.

[GloatingSwine]

If you leave him to be executed in Redcliffe there is actually a satisfying character arc where he realises how much he's stuffed up and accepts his fate with some magnanimity.

(I guess you should all be glad that they dropped the idea of him being a recruitable character anyway).

[Giggling Ghast]

I never understood all the Jowan bloke. He seemed like a nice enough bloke, if one who made some bad decisions. I sent him into the Fade to save Connor and then argued for him to be spared execution.


Me either. When has Flemeth ever spoken of herself in the third person?

In the preceding line, for one thing.

"It is a dance poor Flemeth knows well. Let us see if she remembers the steps."

Also, when she first saves you:

"Yes, men desired Flemeth then, and some even killed for her."

That's two examples that I can think of off the top of my head. She doesn't always refer to herself in the third person; it's entirely random, like most of the gibberish that comes out of her mouth.


Blood Magic is not an "ends justify the means" route to obtaining power, it's 100% refined grade A stupid juice, and it is going to go horribly wrong every single time leading to the practitioner being possessed, dead, or both.

Well, not really. Using blood magic doesn't by itself bring the user to a bad end.

[Forbiddenwar]

Jowan did fall into the characterisation trap that all Blood Mages, at all times and in all places, are complete idiots who are going to **** up sooner rather than later and doom us all.

Blood Magic, like many things, is only noticeable when it fails. Both Flemeth and Morgaine seem to manage just fine, as well as, I'm sure, hundreds of thousands of other mages.

[Giggling Ghast]

Blood Magic, like many things, is only noticeable when it fails. Both Flemeth and Morgaine seem to manage just fine, as well as, I'm sure, hundreds of thousands of other mages.

Are you referring to Morrigan? Because she wasn't a blood mage, outside of that ritual that Flemeth taught her.

[GloatingSwine]

Blood Magic, like many things, is only noticeable when it fails. Both Flemeth and Morgaine seem to manage just fine, as well as, I'm sure, hundreds of thousands of other mages.

Neither Flemeth or Morrigan are Blood Mages. Flemeth is something, but a Blood Mage isn't it, nor is she an Abomination.


(The secret and hideous truth, of course, is that she is actually Captain Janeway, and you exist for her amusement. Much like Harry Kim.)

[Forbiddenwar]

Neither Flemeth or Morrigan are Blood Mages. Flemeth is something, but a Blood Mage isn't it, nor is she an Abomination.


My playthrough, Morrigan was a blood mage.

[mangosta71]

Wynne doesn't go insane and start doing stupid things as a blood mage, either. Neither have any of my mage PCs who took the spec.

[Giggling Ghast]

My playthrough, Morrigan was a blood mage.

But she didn't start out that way, so canonically she's not a blood mage. Which was my point.

[VanBuren]

Wynne doesn't go insane and start doing stupid things as a blood mage, either. Neither have any of my mage PCs who took the spec.

Which is Gameplay and Story Segregation.

[SuperPanda]

I've seen the idea brought up many time in blood magic morality debates that if the Warden turns to blood magic but doesn't use it for evil and doesn't get possessed then there must be others who do it to.

Personally I look at it as the fact that you have to make a bargain with a demon to gain the ability (even if through meta-game save shifts you don't have to live with that choice) as the clarification. You do have to do something pretty awful to gain access to blood magic.

Also the dark ritual is a sort of blood magic and the potential fall out of that is really unknown.

I think DA II with Merill (2.0) and Anders (iteration X) makes a better and more interesting case for blood magic / spirit healers just using magical tools to increase the work they can do, like a man might use a lever to lift more than his muscles can alone.

I also think that the reason for having Templars is pretty well and realistically established. Mages aren't presented as automatically evil, though they are automatically scary. They present a very real threat to anyone on their bad side and its only through their self control that this threat can be negated. To make that worse, they act as lightning rods for the "evils" of the world who want to break that will power. They have the power to kill and maim many people with a thought and few people are going to want to show restraint knowing that they've been made that way, made "better" than "lesser" people.

As long as order is controlled by fear and fear mongering then the mages who turn to blood magic will all be spiteful, power hungry, and foolish. In short, they will all be carrying an idiot ball because if they weren't then they might, like Irving, Wynne, Morgain, and possible the Warden - stand a chance to make a difference in the world around them.

I have more to say on the idea, but it comes from having recently finished Dragon Age II which I think makes the blood magic discussion more interesting. Unfortunately this isn't the thread for that.

[Kish]

Are you referring to Morrigan? Because she wasn't a blood mage, outside of that ritual that Flemeth taught her.
This is a meaningless statement. No blood mages are blood mages outside of the blood magic they do.

Morrigan's blood magic doesn't match the blood magic tree the PC can get access to by making a deal with (or possibly bullying) a demon; that doesn't make it somehow not blood magic.

[Yora]

(The secret and hideous truth, of course, is that she is actually Captain Janeway, and you exist for her amusement. Much like Harry Kim.)
Fascinating. With all the snarking and mocking, I'd never guessed that. :smallbiggrin:

[VanBuren]

This is a meaningless statement. No blood mages are blood mages outside of the blood magic they do.

Morrigan's blood magic doesn't match the blood magic tree the PC can get access to by making a deal with (or possibly bullying) a demon; that doesn't make it somehow not blood magic.

Alright then. Canonically, the only act of blood magic ever performed by Morrigan was that one ritual, for which she did not need to make a pact with a demon because she already had the the theory of the ritual to work from.

Compare to both Jowan ("What? An obstacle? Blood Magic Powers activate!") and Merrill ("Yay Demons!")

[Joran]

Alright then. Canonically, the only act of blood magic ever performed by Morrigan was that one ritual, for which she did not need to make a pact with a demon because she already had the the theory of the ritual to work from.

Compare to both Jowan ("What? An obstacle? Blood Magic Powers activate!") and Merrill ("Yay Demons!")

Canonically, I think in Fereldan, the only way to get Blood Magic is through a pact with a demon, since there are no other teachers.

In Tevinter, it's easier to find a teacher that can teach a mage blood magic.

I think blood magic isn't inherently evil, but there's a lot of things a mage can do with blood magic that can't be done otherwise (hello mind control!) that is rife for abuse.

P.S. On Merrill

I don't think the blood magic is a big deal; it's the consorting with demons and the single-minded determination to repair the mirror. She doesn't use blood magic in any of the forbidden ways and takes legitimate precautions against demons. She's just fixated on the mirror and that's the major issue.

[VanBuren]

Canonically, I think in Fereldan, the only way to get Blood Magic is through a pact with a demon, since there are no other teachers.

Unless I'm forgetting something, Morrigan doesn't make that deal. In fact, her jaunt in the Fade for Connor indicates that she never would. However Morrigan has access to one of her mother's rituals that involves blood magic, which is why she can do it.


I think blood magic isn't inherently evil, but there's a lot of things a mage can do with blood magic that can't be done otherwise (hello mind control!) that is rife for abuse.

It's just that we've yet to meet a canonical blood mage (outside of Morrigan's very specific and unique application of it using an engineer designed by Flemeth herself) that hasn't been a complete monster or foolish.


P.S. On Merrill

I don't think the blood magic is a big deal; it's the consorting with demons and the single-minded determination to repair the mirror. She doesn't use blood magic in any of the forbidden ways and takes legitimate precautions against demons. She's just fixated on the mirror and that's the major issue.

Those things don't stand in isolation though. Her use of blood magic exists in the very context that you're talking about.

[GloatingSwine]

I think blood magic isn't inherently evil, but there's a lot of things a mage can do with blood magic that can't be done otherwise (hello mind control!) that is rife for abuse.


I'm sure that was the intent, but there isn't a single instance of Blood Magic in the game that doesn't lead to catastrophic stupidity and demons everywhere making a mess of the carpets and generally being uncivil.

[VanBuren]

I'm sure that was the intent, but there isn't a single instance of Blood Magic in the game that doesn't lead to catastrophic stupidity and demons everywhere making a mess of the carpets and generally being uncivil.

Well, there is potentially one. Granted, we won't know until we see what the long-term effects are, but Morrigan's ritual is the wildcard here.

[Serpentine]

*ahem*
I'm still playing it. I just wanted to lament:
I really, really like Jowan. I wish they'd stuck with the original plan, and let you concript him into the party :smallfrown::frown:

I can't decide whether to go with the dark ritual or not. I'm thinking not this time, but I don' wanna lose Morrigan :smallfrown: Don't suppose she comes back?Ah well, I can do it next time.
...which is also when I intend to seduce Zevran :smallamused: Not that I expect that to be difficult...

On-topic: As far as I'm aware Jowan never makes a deal with a demon. He just "dabbled", presumably with those books the Head Enchanter hides away.

[Dienekes]

On-topic: As far as I'm aware Jowan never makes a deal with a demon. He just "dabbled", presumably with those books the Head Enchanter hides away.

There's a bit of a continuity puzzle on this. In dragon age 2 a knowledgeable source blatantly says to gain blood magic powers you need to make a deal with demons. The same source also made a joke that puts this idea into question.

Some of us, (including myself, partially because in my first playthrough of DA2 I only heard the first line and still haven't heard the second) believe the former to be true. The only difference to note is that it means that Jowan used the knowledge form the book to summon a demon and learn through it instead of directly from the book. Either way, it was silly for the book to be there anyway.

It also makes Jowan seem like a bigger idiot, which more or less is in line with how I viewed him anyway so it was not such a large leap.

[mangosta71]

I don' wanna lose Morrigan :smallfrown: Don't suppose she comes back?
You'll see her again if you have Witch Hunt. Which is, incidentally, the only way you'll see her again no matter which way you choose.

[Serpentine]

What, does she just bugger off either way?
I dunno, it's probably explained right away. I've only just gotten to the ritual, haven't even started the battle afterwards.

[factotum]

I have a question (and I don't want to play through the whole game again with a different character just to find out, not just yet anyway :smallwink:):


Morrigan's plan requires a Grey Warden to "lay with her" to provide the target for the Arch-Demon. What happens if the Warden is a woman?

[Serpentine]

I just did this, so:You have to convince Alistair to do it.

[Arbitrarity]

Or
Loghain
But that's freaaaaky

[Serpentine]

Eh? She said she couldn't do that. "It needs to be one recently infected with the taint."

[Arbitrarity]

Loghain was recently infected. Not Riordan

[Kish]

What, does she just bugger off either way?
I dunno, it's probably explained right away. I've only just gotten to the ritual, haven't even started the battle afterwards.
She only leaves if you refuse the Ritual. I don't know what Mangosta's thinking of.

[Serpentine]

Loghain was recently infected. Not RiordanWait...Who's Loghain again? Cuz, uh, there was no option given in my game.

[Dienekes]

She only leaves if you refuse the Ritual. I don't know what Mangosta's thinking of.[/spoiler]

Technically she leaves on her own no matter what. It just depends on whether it's before the battle or not. I think she's the only love interest that can never stay with you without Witch Hunt.

[Arbitrarity]

Well
She always leaves after the battle, so you won't see her afterwards until Witch Hunt. You do get a short dialogue right before heading in with your party though.
Teryn Loghain is the guy you executed at the Landsmeet

[Serpentine]

Oooooh right. Dur. Yeah, that makes sense.
...
Ick :smallyuk:
...
Oh man, do you get/have to watch the "gettin' it awn" cutscene if you choose that option?

[Arbitrarity]

Awwwww yeaaaah I am a terrible person
"You'll have to forgive me if I shut my eyes and think of my dead wife."

[Serpentine]

Sooooooo wrooooooong XP

Also, I reckon Alistair enjoyed it a little too much. Cad :smallannoyed:

[JadedDM]

Actually, in the cut-scene I saw, Alistair looked downright terrified.

And yeah, if you refuse the ritual, Morrigan leaves your party forever right then and there. If you agree to it, she leaves your party right after the final battle, forever. Either way she leaves, just one option has her stay slightly longer than the other. Only with the Witch Hunt DLC can you see her again.

[Kish]

You don't see any of your companions again after the game's ended without a DLC or the Awakening expansion (with which you see a couple of them again, but not most of them), so I don't really get the point of calling out Morrigan specifically here. She only leaves before the final battle if you don't do the ritual.

[Dienekes]

You don't see any of your companions again after the game's ended without a DLC or the Awakening expansion (with which you see a couple of them again, but not most of them), so I don't really get the point of calling out Morrigan specifically here. She only leaves before the final battle if you don't do the ritual.

True, but in the final information crawl:
You can make each of the companions you can screw stay with you, or you stay with them in the case of Alistair, the exception being Morrigan.

And of all your companions I think only Sten and Morrigan have no means of staying with the Warden at the end of the game.

[Giggling Ghast]

Who's Loghain again? Cuz, uh, there was no option given in my game.

He's that pale fellow at the Landsmeet. The one who keeps trying to kill you and who betrayed the army at Ostagar.

In other words, no one special. :smalltongue:

[Gamerlord]

The guy who looks like Lawrence Oliver's Richard III.

[GloatingSwine]

True, but in the final information crawl:
And of all your companions I think only Sten and Morrigan have no means of staying with the Warden at the end of the game.

And Loghain, who will, if he survives either because you died or performed Morrigan's ritual, be reassigned to the Wardens in Orlais. If you play Awakening he'll show up and talk about it as well.

Also Oghren has no epilogue which mentions him staying with the Warden, but he does show up to join the Grey Wardens in Awakening.

[Dienekes]

And Loghain, who will, if he survives either because you died or performed Morrigan's ritual, be reassigned to the Wardens in Orlais. If you play Awakening he'll show up and talk about it as well.

Also Oghren has no epilogue which mentions him staying with the Warden, but he does show up to join the Grey Wardens in Awakening.

Thanks for the correction.

[VanBuren]

There's a bit of a continuity puzzle on this. In dragon age 2 a knowledgeable source blatantly says to gain blood magic powers you need to make a deal with demons. The same source also made a joke that puts this idea into question.

Some of us, (including myself, partially because in my first playthrough of DA2 I only heard the first line and still haven't heard the second) believe the former to be true. The only difference to note is that it means that Jowan used the knowledge form the book to summon a demon and learn through it instead of directly from the book. Either way, it was silly for the book to be there anyway.

It also makes Jowan seem like a bigger idiot, which more or less is in line with how I viewed him anyway so it was not such a large leap.

But it also calls into question the nature of Morrigan's ritual. The game makes it pretty clear that for all her faults, demon-bargaining is not something she's inclined to go for, yet the ritual is still definitely based in the theory of Blood magic.

So either Morrigan acted totally out of character and made a deal with a demon offscreen, Flemeth's ritual was sufficiently unique enough to avoid the snarl, or such a pact is not necessary.

[Dienekes]

But it also calls into question the nature of Morrigan's ritual. The game makes it pretty clear that for all her faults, demon-bargaining is not something she's inclined to go for, yet the ritual is still definitely based in the theory of Blood magic.

So either Morrigan acted totally out of character and made a deal with a demon offscreen, Flemeth's ritual was sufficiently unique enough to avoid the snarl, or such a pact is not necessary.

True, but I generally place that under the general wtf that surrounds Flemeth.

Like I said it's a very questionable part of the fluff. I hope someone of the developers actually answers it once and for all so it can be put to rest (even if it means I'm wrong and Jowan moves up from too dumb to live to only freaking idiotic).

[Giggling Ghast]

The game is a bit fuzzy on this. It proclaims that "blood magic must come from demons!" and then lets you buy manuals on how to learn blood magic. Jowan claims he didn't consort with demons to learn it, but then you learn that Connor used Jowan's books to summon the desire demon responsible for all the trouble in Redcliffe.

As I understand it, bargaining with demons is not the only way to learn blood magic. However, because of the Chantry's efforts to completely stamp out all knowledge of the art, the only reliable sources of this information are demons.

The Scrolls of Bannastor (a how-to manual for maleficars) even suggest that the way to learn blood magic is to let a demon try and possess you. If you prove strong enough to resist, then its knowledge is yours.

[mangosta71]

You only hear one side of the story during the game. Everyone that you can actually talk to on the topic of blood magic is indoctrinated with the Chantry's version.

And yes, that is what I meant when I mentioned the thing about Witch Hunt.

[GloatingSwine]

So either Morrigan acted totally out of character and made a deal with a demon offscreen, Flemeth's ritual was sufficiently unique enough to avoid the snarl, or such a pact is not necessary.

The ritual is probably closely related to the method by which Flemeth extends her own life (soul transferrence into a new body). Morrigan herself need have made no deals with demons to know it (and it's possible Flemeth didn't either, among the things we know she isn't is an abomination).

[Dienekes]

The game is a bit fuzzy on this. It proclaims that "blood magic must come from demons!" and then lets you buy manuals on how to learn blood magic. Jowan claims he didn't consort with demons to learn it, but then you learn that Connor used Jowan's books to summon the desire demon responsible for all the trouble in Redcliffe.

As I understand it, bargaining with demons is not the only way to learn blood magic. However, because of the Chantry's efforts to completely stamp out all knowledge of the art, the only reliable sources of this information are demons.

The Scrolls of Bannastor (a how-to manual for maleficars) even suggest that the way to learn blood magic is to let a demon try and possess you. If you prove strong enough to resist, then its knowledge is yours.

That would work, except the context given of the quote on blood magic = demon is about the Tevinter magisters who apparently still need to make these pacts if Anders and Fenris are to be believed.

[Kish]

Considering you can teach your companions to be blood mages without them making separate pacts with a demon, any claim that it's necessary for an individual mage to make a pact with a demon to become a blood mage is blatantly insupportable based on what's in the game, whoever it comes from, from Anders to David Gaider.

[Dienekes]

Considering you can teach your companions to be blood mages without them making separate pacts with a demon, any claim that it's necessary for an individual mage to make a pact with a demon to become a blood mage is blatantly insupportable based on what's in the game, whoever it comes from, from Anders to David Gaider.

True but this can be seen as gameplay verse fluff segregation. Sort of like how Wynne would never in a million years be a blood mage, yet you can give her the specialization. Or how you can just become a Templar in DA2 without having any real contact with Templars and no means of picking up their techniques. It's even worse with Reavers, since I don't think you ever even see one before you can take the specialization. Or probably the worst case, when the fluff blatantly tells you there is no such thing as teleportation when every freaking mage you fight teleports around every thirty seconds.

Basically, for these sorts of things we try to go by what the codexes and dialogue actually say, because Bioware cuts corners during the actual gameplay.

[Yora]

I've never seen a mage teleport even once. (Only played until getting into the palace, but that's a lot of mages up to that point.)

[Giggling Ghast]

This is the DA: Origins thread, but since you brought DA2 into it…


It's even worse with Reavers, since I don't think you ever even see one before you can take the specialization.

There's one in Aveline's companion quest, and you probably did that before you took the specialization. He's actually a fairly tough bugger.

But you never come across any berserkers.


Or probably the worst case, when the fluff blatantly tells you there is no such thing as teleportation when every freaking mage you fight teleports around every thirty seconds.

Mages don't teleport in DA2. They turn invisible and then move around the battleground.

[Pronounceable]

Mages don't teleport in DA2. They turn invisible and then move around the battleground.
Oh? Could've fooled me. Then again, there's backstab...

I'll always go with Varric is exaggerating explanation for stuff like that.
...
As for ontopic: I'm finally going for a second round. Dwarf noble tank. Tank doesn't seem that boring. Then again, fights are over very fast so far. Playing on easiest so I won't have to take Wynne *everywhere*. Having to take Alistair and Wynne for the entire duration of the dam game last time with rogue was a bother.

I was planning to take Sten and Zevran everywhere this time but I find myself unable to ever take Sten (Oghren too for that matter). My dislike for 2handers seems deeply ingrained. And I can't stop always taking Leliana again. It's prolly her accented voice.

Another plan was to play a ruthless evil bastard, doing everything the goody two shoes first human didn't do. Plan failed at Broken Circle. Metagaming or not, comparing Ferelden and Kirkwall Circles forces me to appreciate the workingness of Irving-Gregoir dynamic.

Oh well. Hopefully plan will get back on track in other places.

[Yora]

I always play on hard and I don't take Wynn anywhere outside the tower. Having Morrigan learn Heal at the first opportunity served me well enough. However, I did have either Alistair or myself as a Sword and Board fighter in the group. Sten and Ogren always take a huge amount of damage.

[Serpentine]

I'm thinking next time I play, I'll aim for ranged elf rangery thing (shaddap), and hang out with Sten, Zevran and Morrigan. Guess I'd better have a bit of a ruthless streak...

[Yora]

I'm doing this now with an elven blood mage. The main character motivation is "I don't want to end up as a darkspawn". All the political stuff is "not my problem", I just want to get those troops.
Actually a lot more fun to play than it sounds.

[The Rose Dragon]

I finished Awakenings at long last. On the upside, it was short. On the downside, it was short. It was short enough that it could be over before getting bored of it, and too short to have any actual material put into it. The only interesting part was the nature of the Architect, and it was not explained beyond "I am born this way". On the other hand, the new talents and specializations were fun, and I wish I could play with them longer.

Also finished Witch Hunt and Leliana's Song. Leliana's Song was a fun series of heists and action sequences, though I thought that all happened in Orlais, rather than Ferelden. Witch Hunt... well, it gives you cool equipment for later playthroughs, I guess.

[Giggling Ghast]

The Architect was an antagonist from one of the prequel novels, The Calling. He's actually an interesting character; one of Awakening's failings is that it doesn't give him enough time in the spotlight.

I think if Awakening had just one more of those main quests once you've recruited your additional companions, it would have been a bit more fulfilling. They could have explored the Brewing Conspiracy sub-plot a bit more.

I thought Witch Hunt was a fun little adventure.

[GloatingSwine]

If you want to really try out the new powers try Golems of Amgarrak. It's not a brilliant addon, since it's pretty much all combat, but the difficulty will make you weep bitter tears of pain.

[Forbiddenwar]

If you want to really try out the new powers try Golems of Amgarrak. It's not a brilliant addon, since it's pretty much all combat, but the difficulty will make you weep bitter tears of pain.

???
I found it easy enough on Normal with my 2 weapon fighter.
I haven't tried nightmare yet. Perhaps the difficulty curve is pretty steep.

Edit: Or did you mean it was too easy? I thought awakening was easier.

[Giggling Ghast]

???
I found it easy enough on Normal with my 2 weapon fighter.
I haven't tried nightmare yet. Perhaps the difficulty curve is pretty steep.

Edit: Or did you mean it was too easy? I thought awakening was easier.

No, he meant it was very difficult.

I myself got through it with my tank rogue on Hard difficulty without breaking down in tears, but I prepared for it by bringing a lot of poultices and some good equipment for Brogan and Jerrik.

I also doubt I could have made it without picking up the sweet gear/talents that are available in Awakening.

[Arbitrarity]

Depends how you do it. You can cheese GoA with Focus manuals, and respec everyone into, say, archery. But that's lame. You can also do it the hard way, which makes the last fight particularly obnoxious (LAWL SKELETONS HAVE 350 ATTACK AND DEFENSE), though the rest isn't that bad. Even the last fight is survivable with good tactics, though I tended to lose the rest of my party and end up chasing down the Harvester.

[GloatingSwine]

Depends how you do it. You can cheese GoA with Focus manuals, and respec everyone into, say, archery. But that's lame. You can also do it the hard way, which makes the last fight particularly obnoxious (LAWL SKELETONS HAVE 350 ATTACK AND DEFENSE), though the rest isn't that bad. Even the last fight is survivable with good tactics, though I tended to lose the rest of my party and end up chasing down the Harvester.

If you don't cheese Jerrik and Brogan at least a little they'll fall over and die if the Havester looks at them funny, might last three hits if they're very lucky.

I just built an arcane warrior tank mage and tanked the thing myself, setting it on fire whenever flame blast cooled down.

The only downside is I then walked through Witch Hunt without ever dropping below half health, because a character that can tank the Harvester in the face isn't going to worry about any other enemies in the whole damn game.

[C-Lam]

So I've never played DA:O before, but I've finished DA2 not so long ago, and really wanted to play it. But it was sold out at the gameshops, so I couldn't but it.

But this week I played at my sisters house, since its easter vacation. Played about 10hour or so, and so far I'm really enjoying it.
Also bought the ultimate editon for ps3, since it was for dale here, so I'll be playing more when I get home. I cant wait!

I played a mage here, but I think I'll roll a warrior when I get home. I just like warrior better. Anyhow, I'm not sure how to spec my companions, since the onces I tired here didnt suite work that well. Also, what more fun to play as a warrior? Dual-wield, two-handed, archery or tank?
Just want some other opinion, thanks!

[mangosta71]

Rogues are much better at both dual wield and archery than warriors due to differences in base class talents.

If you decide to use a two-hander, make sure to get a weapon rebalancing mod or you'll be clawing your eyes out before you get through the Tower of Ishal.

Rolling a tank yourself gives you more freedom in your party selection because you don't have to bring Alistair everywhere. You won't have the damage output of the other specs, but you'll be almost impossible to kill. And you also won't have to program tactics for your tank (tank and mage are the most difficult to get just right until you're comfortable with tactics because they have to cover a wider range of contingencies).

[The Rose Dragon]

Rolling a tank yourself gives you more freedom in your party selection because you don't have to bring Alistair everywhere. You won't have the damage output of the other specs, but you'll be almost impossible to kill. And you also won't have to program tactics for your tank (tank and mage are the most difficult to get just right until you're comfortable with tactics because they have to cover a wider range of contingencies).

I never bring Alistair anywhere. Shale does his job just fine, in my experience. In fact, I only bring him along when I play the tank, since I can respec him as a dual-wielder that way. He joins you early enough that you can do that (unlike Sten and Oghren, who are very stuck in their two-handed specializations).

[C-Lam]

Rogues are much better at both dual wield and archery than warriors due to differences in base class talents.

If you decide to use a two-hander, make sure to get a weapon rebalancing mod or you'll be clawing your eyes out before you get through the Tower of Ishal.

Rolling a tank yourself gives you more freedom in your party selection because you don't have to bring Alistair everywhere. You won't have the damage output of the other specs, but you'll be almost impossible to kill. And you also won't have to program tactics for your tank (tank and mage are the most difficult to get just right until you're comfortable with tactics because they have to cover a wider range of contingencies).

I see. But I play on ps3, so I don't think that I can mod it.
Tank sounds pretty nice, so that might be a choice. And since I played two-handed in DA2, it would be a nice change from that. (Although I know the games are somewhat different in combat.)

And not having to bring Alistair all the time would be nice. Cause when I played a mage here, I basically used the same party all the time, and I really want to try out the other companions.

But if I roll a tank, I just basically take the talents in sword and shield, and take taunt and the stuff like that right?

[GloatingSwine]

But if I roll a tank, I just basically take the talents in sword and shield, and take taunt and the stuff like that right?

Yeah, sword and board is the tanker's gear. If you have Return to Ostagar then the armour, sword, and shield you get from it are awesome for a tank.

Two handers are a controller's weapon in DA:O, you get lots of stuns, debuffs, and knockdowns, but you'll want someone else on hand to be dishing out the damage. Fighting things one on one is pretty easy though as they'll be spending 90% of the fight on their ass.

[Sipex]

Hello, I'm a newbie to the Dragon Age series and had some questions.

I plan on buying the 360 version of Dragon Age: Origins and I was wondering if anyone could answer these for me.

1) I heard dagger damage isn't calculated properly and is underwhelming with the base version. Is this fixed on the 360 with any of the patches or DLC?

2) When the game originally came out I remember there was some sort of bonus DLC for buying it new. Is that still offered? I got the impression that it was just a 'redeem the DLC for free' token contained within the box.

[The Rose Dragon]

I'm not really well-informed on the first question, and I always found double daggers to be the best way of dealing lots of damage really quick. I am playing on the PC, with no mods, so it might or might not have been fixed with an official patch.

For the second question, if you are not buying the game previously used, the Stone Prisoner and Blood Dragon Armor DLCs are still redeemable and you should have the codes for doing so included within the box. If not, they are still available for purchase, as are all the other DLCs.

[mangosta71]

I'm fairly certain that you can purchase the special edition (which includes the expansion and all DLCs) for less than the cost of the original game when it was released.

As for the first question, I never noticed dagger damage being subpar with version 1.0 (I played a full game with a DW rogue before I installed the first patch - they deal less damage per swing, but they also swing enough faster that they more than make up the difference). However, if your PC can run the game, I would recommend that as your platform so that you can install mods (especially the user-created fixes for some of the more crippling bugs in Awakening). There are also rebalancing mods that make 2H warriors not totally suck and smooth the archery power curve (and also make using activated abilities not a dps loss for high-level archers) that you can't get on a console.

[Giggling Ghast]

Hello, I'm a newbie to the Dragon Age series and had some questions.

I plan on buying the 360 version of Dragon Age: Origins and I was wondering if anyone could answer these for me.

Hello, fellow XBox360 gamer.


I heard dagger damage isn't calculated properly and is underwhelming with the base version. Is this fixed on the 360 with any of the patches or DLC?

No, unfortunately. But dagger rogue builds don't necessarily depend on wielding a lot of damage with each hit so much as they are about being virtually untouchable and dealing damage very quickly.


2) When the game originally came out I remember there was some sort of bonus DLC for buying it new. Is that still offered? I got the impression that it was just a 'redeem the DLC for free' token contained within the box.

There were a number of pre-order bonuses that were available through the various distributors when the game first came out, but they're obviously not offered any more.

For a while, copies of Dragon Age contained a code that you could redeem for The Stone Prisoner. I don't think that's available anymore.

Generally speaking, however, I think the DLC have all gone down considerably in price. The Stone Prisoner is generally regarded as the best of the bunch.

[GloatingSwine]

1) I heard dagger damage isn't calculated properly and is underwhelming with the base version. Is this fixed on the 360 with any of the patches or DLC?


No, daggers were supposed to use Dexterity to calculate bonus damage but will actually use Strength instead like other melee weapons, though they still use Dexterity as the gate stat to determine whether you can equip them or not.

The only real effect this has is it means that melee rogues can't concentrate their stat points as effectively as others, as they'll want Str, Dex, Will, and Con whilst other classes can pick three.


2) When the game originally came out I remember there was some sort of bonus DLC for buying it new. Is that still offered? I got the impression that it was just a 'redeem the DLC for free' token contained within the box.

The free code was for The Stone Prisoner, which is still available for 1200MSP and is well worth it as it contains a decent amount of new content and Shale, who is one of the most entertaining characters. I'd say in order of descending worth-it-ness the DLC shakes out something like:

Stone Prisoner
Awakening
Witch Hunt
Warden's Keep
Leliana's Song
Return to Ostagar
Golems of Amgarrak
Darkspawn Chronicles.

Stone Prisoner, Warden's Keep, and Return to Ostagar are additions to the main game, Leliana's Song and Darkspawn Chronicles are side stories with different characters, Awakening is a full expansion and Golems of Amgarrak and Witch Hunt are stories that take place after the main story/awakening.

[Thormag]

Played Dragon Age Origins and fell in love with the characters and story. I think it is one of the best RPGs that I have played recently.

I played it with an city elf archer and found myself dealing not a lot of damage through the game, until I played Awakening and my dps went through the roof.

I became so obsessed with the game that I bought the pen and paper RPG set 1 so I could play "Dragon Age" with my friends. The lore is just exquisite.

Also, I drew some characters in OotS style, PM if you want a specific character or if you want to use these as your avatar
[/shameless self promotion]

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/129/f/b/leliana_by_thormag-d3g04qd.png

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/129/0/5/alistair_by_thormag-d3g04ry.png

[Xondoure]

Please tell me there's one for all the other companions. :smallcool:

[The Rose Dragon]

No, daggers were supposed to use Dexterity to calculate bonus damage but will actually use Strength instead like other melee weapons, though they still use Dexterity as the gate stat to determine whether you can equip them or not.

Or rather, they were supposed to use half from Dexterity, and half from Strength. So, they don't get the half from Dexterity, and they only get the half from Strength, rather than the full amount.

((Also, I never put points into Constitution. The massive stat bonuses from items ensure that, as a warrior, you have more hit points than anyone but Shale, so I didn't think it was worth it. And if you are not a warrior, you should not be getting hit by single target attacks anyway.))

[mangosta71]

Or rather, they were supposed to use half from Dexterity, and half from Strength. So, they don't get the half from Dexterity, and they only get the half from Strength, rather than the full amount.
They fixed this with a patch, I thought. The special edition with all the bells and whistles should include all the patches. Or maybe one of my mods fixed the issue - I know that my rogue was regularly breaking 800 by the time I finished Awakening with his daggers.

[The Rose Dragon]

It's not that hard to break the 250 barrier with a dual-wielding rogue, since that's how I earned that particular achievement. I don't know about 900, but about 500 is enough to kill any creature that is not a boss. Even then, the Mother takes about 2 minutes to kill on Normal.

[mangosta71]

Yeah. Hit the Flicker button and watch all the bad guys in the room disappear in fountainous sprays of blood. Ah, memories...

[Thormag]

Must be a mod, because not even with my archery skills (which mind you I out-dps the entire party) reached those crazy numbers.

Or maybe I did something wrong, I don't know.

Xondoure:

No, I only got those two, but I'm working on Morrigan now and then Sten. I plan on drawing all companions from DA:O, DA:A and DA2. :smallcool:

[Sipex]

Someone in the DA2 thread said I can fix the dagger bug by taking a skill called Lethality which allows you to use your cunning score in place of the primary stat for your attacks. Is this true?

[Thormag]

As far as I know, the Lethality talent should fix the dagger bug, since it trades str damage for cun damage, and the Dragon Age Wiki does not report a bug about it.

You should try it. If it doesn't work and if you're playing the PC version, download the Potion of Re-specialization mod and reset the character.

EDIT: Checking the DAWiki, it says that the dagger bug is only present in the XBOX 360 and PS3 versions. It doesn't say anything about the bug being present on the PC. Is this true? Can anyone confirm this information?

[mangosta71]

That could explain why I never noticed my dagger damage being unusually low. Or maybe it was originally bugged in all the versions, but only the PC version got patched?

But yes, lethality is very nice, since it means you can ignore strength entirely on your rogue (beyond advancing it to 20 so you can equip the best leather armor).

@Dorian: The person asking was planning to get it on the 360, so the respec mod wouldn't be an option. He'd have to wait until he gets into Awakening or reroll if he finds that his spec isn't working.

[Thormag]

Alright, didn't know that. I try to stay away from the Dragon Age 2 thread to avoid spoilers. I'm still in Act 2 and I've being spoiled the
fight with the Arishok, though the trailer didn't seem to mind the spoiler

In other news, I just finished my Morrigan. Didn't turn out as I expected, but I guess it's better than nothing.

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/130/5/f/morrigan_by_thormag-d3g0yn7.png

[Giggling Ghast]

Not bad, Dorian. Tell ya what, shrink down those Leliana and Alistair avatars and I'll use 'em. (I'll maybe start with Leliana, and if no one picks it up, I'll switch over to Alistair at some point.)

[The Rose Dragon]

But yes, lethality is very nice, since it means you can ignore strength entirely on your rogue (beyond advancing it to 20 so you can equip the best leather armor).

Leather is for wusses. Real men enter Legionnaire Scout and raise their natural Strength to about 30 so they can wear volcanic aurum massive armor like the real men they are.

[Forbiddenwar]

Leather is for wusses. Real men enter Legionnaire Scout and raise their natural Strength to about 30 so they can wear volcanic aurum massive armor like the real men they are.

Real men, or in the case of myself, real ladies. But with dwarves, who can tell.

[Giggling Ghast]

Leather is for wusses. Real men enter Legionnaire Scout and raise their natural Strength to about 30 so they can wear volcanic aurum massive armor like the real men they are.

Does it count if I did that and I was an elf?

Darian Tabris=manliest elf in Thedas.

[The Rose Dragon]

Darian Tabris=manliest elf in Thedas.

Fenris disagrees. Your suggestion that he is not the manliest elf to ever elf the elf out of that elf means you must be an abomination. Die, abomination, die! *slash chop crash*

[Giggling Ghast]

Darian blinds him with the gleam off his abs and stealths away in his Sentinel armor, not wishing to embarrass Fenris by handing him his ass on a silver plate. :smalltongue:

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, that does not quite resolve the problem of me stabbing Darian.

[Giggling Ghast]

My guy can walk off getting chewed on by a High Dragon and an acid bath from The Mother.

Besides, it's a well-known fact that Grey Wardens possess 64 gallons of blood in their bodies. He could bleed all week and still jog from one end of Ferelden to another. :smalltongue:

[VanBuren]

Well, that does not quite resolve the problem of me stabbing Darian.

Fenris =/= The Warden.

At best, Fenris could hope to be #2.

[Giggling Ghast]

In an effort to keep the peace, I'll concede that Fenris is the prettiest male elf in Thedas. Also, the broodiest.

[Thormag]

In an effort to keep the peace, I'll concede that Fenris is the prettiest male elf in Thedas. Also, the broodiest.

No, the prettiest male elf in Thedas would be Zevran :smallbiggrin:

I'll give you broodiest though.

EDIT: Adding my newest creations:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/131/2/e/sten_by_thormag-d3g4cm5.png

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/131/8/e/oghren_by_thormag-d3g5ahn.png

[Yora]

Sten disapproves.

But I like it. :smallbiggrin:

[The Rose Dragon]

In an effort to keep the peace, I'll concede that Fenris is the prettiest male elf in Thedas. Also, the broodiest.

If he brooded any more, he would be the king of brooding. Women would swoon before him and have broody babies in his honor.

[Giggling Ghast]

Is brooding a sport in Tevinter? Do they hold competitions? Hand out prizes for the best scowls? :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/219000/219171_stendisapproves.jpg

Also:http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/comics/2011-01-17.jpg
I think this is based on the artist's own character, but I like to think it's Zevran.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

http://newsimg.ngfiles.com/219000/219171_stendisapproves.jpg
GAH! THAT FACE!!! It's staring into my soul! IT KNOWS MY NAME!!!

[Giggling Ghast]

I asked the artist. That's the Dalish Warden, who she realized was kind of a self-absorbed hedonist.

Kicking Sten's ass in Haven was one of the most cathartic moments in Origins. :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Asked the artist, or read the attached newspost?

[Giggling Ghast]

Asked the artist, or read the attached newspost?

I asked her if that was the Dalish warden in the comments section and she confirmed that was the case. The "hedonist" descriptor comes from the newspost, however.


GAH! THAT FACE!!! It's staring into my soul! IT KNOWS MY NAME!!!

AND IT DISAPPROVES!! :smalltongue:

[Joran]

Is brooding a sport in Tevinter? Do they hold competitions? Hand out prizes for the best scowls? :smalltongue:

I love Merrill >.> <.<

In all my Bioware games, I'm a hedonist... In Mass Effect, Kaidan broke up with me because I wanted a threesome with him and the Asari... >.> <.<

I'm kind of disappointed my ending from Dragon Age didn't hold up. My Warden was supposed to wander in a sexy trio of a Dalish Elf, Leliana, and Zevran =P

[Sipex]

Okay, so I bought this and now I'm kicking myself for not buying it sooner. Currently playing a Dwarf two weapon fighter Rogue (Dwarf Commoner). Love it. Probably go mage next playthrough.

Gotten as far as lighting the tower in the second act.

[Yora]

Okay, so I bought this and now I'm kicking myself for not buying it sooner. Currently playing a Dwarf two weapon fighter Rogue (Dwarf Commoner). Love it. Probably go mage next playthrough.
That was pretty much my first reaction too. :smallbiggrin:

[Serpentine]

Same here!

[The Rose Dragon]

Okay, so I bought this and now I'm kicking myself for not buying it sooner. Currently playing a Dwarf two weapon fighter Rogue (Dwarf Commoner). Love it. Probably go mage next playthrough.

Gotten as far as lighting the tower in the second act.

How unfortunate that you started with one of the two best origins in the game. You'll be spoiled from now on.

I would suggest going Dalish Elf - Human Noble - City Elf (male) - Mage - City Elf (female) - Dwarven Noble - Dwarven Commoner, so none of the previous origins would spoil the next.

[Giggling Ghast]

On the other hand, if you're not planning to do a half-dozen playthroughs, it's good you stuck with one of the better origins.

Myself, I'm a die-hard City Elf fan. I'm not sure why people prefer the female CE; the cutscene where you overcome the guards is impressive, but you miss out on several opportunities for dialogue that you would have had as a male character, as well as some fights with the guardsmen.

I heard Zousha once say that "the hero rushing off to save his bride" was a cliché, but I don't see how playing the Damsel in Distress is any better. The female CE just lacks agency, in my opinion.

[The Rose Dragon]

Well, depends on how you view your character. If you expect your character to just want to have a normal life, having your would-be husband killed and taking your wedding ring from his corpse after almost being raped is much more powerful than going into it with the expectation that you are going to become a Grey Warden at the end anyway. If you are just thinking of it as a prelude to super-duper-fun Grey Warden adventures, then the male City Elf has more opportunities to show off his heroics, but it is not as personal.

Basically, the male City Elf has things done to people he loves. The female City Elf has things done to herself.

[Giggling Ghast]

You say that as though the Male CE went skipping off to Vaughan's estate shouting "ADVENTURE A-HOY!"

What I got out of it was an underlying feeling of doubt to the male City Elf's mission, the acknowledgement that even if he and Soris succeed in rescuing the women, the repurcussions from their actions will be dire. (And, truthfully, that turns out to be the case.)

But there's no way out of it. Going to the city guard will not help. Starting a riot will not help. The only option is to sneak into the Arl's estate, and by virtue of your martial training, you're the only one who has a chance at succeeding.

You can even ask your father to re-assure you that you're doing the right thing, and he states that he wishes he could tell you otherwise, but you both know there's no other option. The female CE is hauled into a bad situation and must fight her way out of it, but the male CE is just as trapped by the circumstances.

Her fiancee is killed, which is sad. But the male CE rescued his bride and then has to give her up anyway, because the price for not being hauled off to jail and likely executed is conscription into the Wardens. Is it really worse to have an opportunity at domestic wedded bliss completely denied to you than to be forced to throw it away?

I do favour the male CE origin because it has a more heroic feel, but I never treated it as a 'prelude' to the Grey Warden's adventures.

[Serpentine]

Anyone had a bit of a glitch with the dialogue? Maybe I just picked the wrong save, but I'm sure I played the "Alistair is not king" option, yet he keeps talking like he is king.
And then he asploded.
:(

[Giggling Ghast]

Yes, that's a rather glaring bug.

If you executed Loghain, put Anora on the throne and refused the Dark Ritual, Alistair has a tendency to think he's king even when he's not.

But if you're a female Warden and romancing him, he will always sacrifice himself for you, no matter what you say. That's not a bug. The only way to save him (outside of a mod) is to leave him at the gates of Denerim.

[Serpentine]

Oh hey.
Hey guys.
I've finished a game :3
I might even have to start using two hands to count the number of games I've finished, now! :O

[Giggling Ghast]

CONGRALATURATION! A WARDEN IS YOU (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWinnerIsYou)!

You have completed a great game. And prooved the justice of our culture. Now go and rest our heroes!

[Serpentine]

Now to go elfin' it up and seducin' ol' Zevran... :smallamused: Dalish elf or city elf?

[Thormag]

City elf all the way. Darrian is just sexy like that.

The Rose Dragon: Why do you say that the Human Noble Origin is that bad?
Sure, it's a cliche storm, but it lampshades most of it and it gives the warden a pretty good motivation throughout the game. Plus, there's nothing more satisfying that chopping Arl Howe's head with a human noble.


http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/132/f/8/wynne_by_thormag-d3g7a7p.png

[Sipex]

I've seen the City Elf origin as well, my wife decided to go that way on her play through. I always wondered if it was different depending on your gender though.

[Giggling Ghast]

The story is the same, but the Warden's role in it differs due to their gender.

[Dienekes]

I've seen the City Elf origin as well, my wife decided to go that way on her play through. I always wondered if it was different depending on your gender though.

It's mostly the same. Personally I prefer female CE, because I feel the angry survivor mentality more fits DAO than the hero mentality. But that is just me, and very few of my characters in any game that I have the option are the old fashion real heroes, so it's probably my own biases.

[Thormag]

Yay! Just finished drawing both Zevran and Dog (Barkspawn or Bunny, take your pick). That means all companions (save from temporary ones) are done. :smallbiggrin:

Now onto Dragon Age 2 companions, starting with sexy Varric.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/134/b/c/dog_by_thormag-d3gboi4.png http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/133/5/9/zevran_by_thormag-d3ga69r.png

[Kish]

Yay! Just finished drawing both Zevran and Dog (Barkspawn or Bunny, take your pick).
I don't like either of those options.

[VanBuren]

Yay! Just finished drawing both Zevran and Dog (Barkspawn or Bunny, take your pick). That means all companions (save from temporary ones) are done. :smallbiggrin:

Now onto Dragon Age 2 companions, starting with sexy Varric.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/134/b/c/dog_by_thormag-d3gboi4.png http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/133/5/9/zevran_by_thormag-d3ga69r.png

Actually the name the devs used was "Rabbit", not "Bunny".

Even so, "Barkspawn" is the vastly superior name.

[Kesnit]

Yay! Just finished drawing both Zevran and Dog (Barkspawn or Bunny, take your pick). That means all companions (save from temporary ones) are done. :smallbiggrin:

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/134/b/c/dog_by_thormag-d3gboi4.png

I love Dog. He is my favorite companion, though I've only actually used him in one play through.

[Forbiddenwar]

hmm, I thought Glados was the most common name. Because she brings cake.

[Tam_OConnor]

I just finished my first play-through, as Doran Aeducan (Cunning-based dual-wielding Rogue). I named the dog Bhelen. It felt appropriate. Also, I am totally fan-boying over Morrigan.

[Serpentine]

Because she brings cake.I was sad that I threw away the cake because I ran out of room :smallfrown:
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/134/b/c/dog_by_thormag-d3gboi4.png http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/133/5/9/zevran_by_thormag-d3ga69r.pngI am sad because these are my least favourite of your pictures :smallfrown: The dog looks a little wonky and off-colour, and Zevran neadz moar smecksy. And may have a slightly fat face.
:frown:

I called my dog Schnookums.

[Giggling Ghast]

How much secksy can you fit into a stick figure?

Zevran looks fine.

First, I named my dog Beast. Then he became Fang. Then I wrote a story where he was named both. It's very cheesy, but I like it.

[Dhavaer]

Any advice for fighting corpses? They aren't difficult, exactly, but they seem to have far more hitpoints than something that comes in the numbers they do and any fight against them is a really annoying grind. Currently playing an ice/lightning mage.

[Serpentine]

How much secksy can you fit into a stick figure?Well...
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/serpentine16/Avatarables/Serpentine/Serpentinepole-1.gif
There's plenty by other people that're pretty hawt. I think, though, even just lowering his face a bit would help. And I only criticise because the rest are so good and I particularly want to see these ones look at least as good.