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Strawberries
2011-03-12, 01:11 PM
I never played it, but I have some vague knowledge of the system through the old Troika computer games, which I enjoyed a lot, so I'd like to give it a try. The setting appeals to me.

Two problems with this:

1- From what I understand the old setting is no longer in print. I could probably dig up some book in some used bookstore, or asking friends of friends to lend me theirs (I have friends who used to roleplay a lot, and now they don't anymore due to time issues). But what would I need to start playing as a total newbie? Just the book "The masquerade" or something else?

2- My only means of playing is play-by-post. :smallfrown: How difficult is to find someone willing to play with this system?

Aside from that, any other things I should know? Tips for someone who is only familiar with D&D and Call of Chtulhu?
Thanks very much in advance!

Reluctance
2011-03-12, 01:52 PM
The game is quite playable with just the core book, but V:tM comes from an era when RPGs put out ridiculous amounts of metaplot. Sourcebooks and even novels could - and often did - reveal details designed to change the playing field. Be aware that most Masquerade players stick with it precisely because they like the huge amounts of setting material. Be prepared to either do a lot of asking questions and/or poking around WW's own wiki (http://wiki.white-wolf.com/worldofdarkness/index.php?title=Old_World_of_Darkness). At least if you have the money, WW is cool about keeping legal PDFs of their old editions available online.

I'm sure that V:tM PBP/PBEMs exist, although frankly I wouldn't know where to find one. WW's own oWoD forum (http://forums.white-wolf.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=16) might be a good place to start. Otherwise, cross your fingers and google.

Urpriest
2011-03-12, 01:57 PM
Just in case you're unaware, while Vampire:The Masquerade is out of print, Vampire:The Requiem is still fully supported. Out of all of White Wolf's World of Darkness settings, I'd say it's changed the least between editions, so you should still get a lot of that feel you were used to, especially since with computer games you wouldn't have been all that aware of the system anyway. If you want to play Vampire:the Requiem, you'll need the new World of Darkness core rulebook and the book for Vampire:the Requiem. Since it's in print, it shouldn't be that hard to find or find a pbp of.

Savannah
2011-03-12, 02:51 PM
There are occasional V:tM games in the pbp section here. (And if you go asking for one, let me know, 'cause I bought the book recently and have been meaning to learn to play it sometime :smallwink:)

Noneoyabizzness
2011-03-12, 03:28 PM
I.'d be up for try to php a htm game. Second best game ww made next to abberrant.

comicshorse
2011-03-12, 07:28 PM
The general concensus ,and one I broadly agree with, is that Vampire the Masquerade had better background and Vampire the Requiem has better rules.

Strawberries
2011-03-12, 07:33 PM
Thank you for the answers, everyone, and the links. Urpriest, I was aware there was another edition, but I understand that a fair bit of things from the old setting have changed. I think I'll try to play the one I was fond of. Anyway, thank you!


There are occasional V:tM games in the pbp section here. (And if you go asking for one, let me know, 'cause I bought the book recently and have been meaning to learn to play it sometime :smallwink:)

I'll keep you in mind. Let me get my hands on the book, at least. :smalltongue:

Fox Box Socks
2011-03-12, 08:38 PM
For the record, while Masquerade has its charms, I find Requiem to be a much smarter (and ultimately darker) game.

Xuincherguixe
2011-03-12, 08:46 PM
I'm in a play by post one myself. Which would have been hosted here except for how absolutely blasphemous some of the concepts are.

To give an idea as to what sorts of topics have come up?
"Maybe Jesus was a vampire?"
"I've got a plan to eat the soul of god."
"I've got a plan to eat the soul of an archangel."
"I want to transform into Jesus!"

By in large this is all being handled quite maturely. But it doesn't take a genius to realize that this could really offend people.

The exact metaplot is going to vary by storyteller, but there's some pretty strong Christian themes going on. It makes for a good game, but it might offend Atheist and Christian sensibilities alike.


It goes without saying don't make annoying characters, but some people take certain clans as an invitation to make dumb ones. For instance the Malkavian clan of vampires are all insane (in different ways). Fun times these guys. But a lot of folks seem to like making "Fishmalks", where they're likely to run up to you, smack you with a trout, giggle and run away.

I believe fishmalks are the reason why Malkavians aren't a clan any more. (There's something similar, but it's not really the same thing.)

Yeah...

Build team player vampires.

comicshorse
2011-03-12, 08:50 PM
Build team player vampires.

And then at the optimum moment stab the rest of the team in the back

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-12, 10:38 PM
And then at the optimum moment stab the rest of the team in the backDid somebody say Arch Whitman? :smallbiggrin:

Vknight
2011-03-13, 12:25 AM
I believe some one did.

stainboy
2011-03-13, 12:44 AM
I believe fishmalks are the reason why Malkavians aren't a clan any more. (There's something similar, but it's not really the same thing.)


The writers said pretty much that. I remember a few rants from Justin Achilli about "cute Malkavians with teddy bears" and malks played for comic relief. Revised tried to hammer this home (compare the 2e Malk handbook vs the Revised Malk handbook) but for some people it didn't take.

It is a known fact that "wacky" Malkavians accounted for 73.9% of all Vampire campaign deaths. It is further estimated that 80% of the offending players had disrupted D&D games in the past as kender. In 20% of those cases it wasn't even a Dragonlance game, they just had to play the one kender who fell through a portal into Athas.

Good riddance.

Vknight
2011-03-13, 01:01 AM
No not really Kender are fun but thats for a different time and place.

Malk's bring a joy and light hearted cheer sometimes needed. Though they can become a person you wish to throatel.

(Gppdnight it is 1am were I am so any spelling ererors I'm sorry about.)

Xuincherguixe
2011-03-13, 01:15 AM
Good riddance to Fishmalks, but Malkavians have a truck load of potential.

And their disciplines reflect that. Someone might pass them over on first glance, but someone with imagination is going to realize that Obfuscate, Auspex, and Dementation is pretty strong. Domination is just plain broken.

Best to play the sort of character who's capable of manipulating situations to their favor.

There's a difference between being insane, and being obnoxious. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

My current Malkavian is an example of it done right I'd think. Polite, intelligent, and causes antagonists to be afraid to talk to him. Words can be very dangerous in Vampire.

stainboy
2011-03-13, 02:09 AM
Wasn't trying to suggest you couldn't make a cool Malkavian who fit the tone of Vampire, just that a lot of players... didn't. "I have five personalities! One of them is Doctor Who, one of them is that kid from Cowboy Bebop..." :smallannoyed:

Back on topic, for book recommendations:

You can play the game with just Vampire: the Masquerade Revised core book. Player's Guide to the Sabbat Revised is heavy on metaplot, but I think the best written book in the Vampire line and adds a lot of depth for antagonists (or protagonists, whichever). Player's Guide the the Camarilla gives some interesting story ideas but crunch-wise it's optional.

If you like the tone of Bloodlines just grab whatever splatbooks look cool for new source material. Werewolf books, Wraith books, anything "of the East," whatever splats you can find for cheap. oWoD could never decide if it wanted to be kitchen sink modern dark fantasy or a bunch of independent games with a similar tone. Bloodlines picked Kitchen Sink.

(Just steer clear of Mage and Changeling stuff. They use subsystems that don't play nice with Vampire.)

Narren
2011-03-13, 02:19 AM
Good riddance to Fishmalks, but Malkavians have a truck load of potential.

And their disciplines reflect that. Someone might pass them over on first glance, but someone with imagination is going to realize that Obfuscate, Auspex, and Dementation is pretty strong. Domination is just plain broken.

Best to play the sort of character who's capable of manipulating situations to their favor.

There's a difference between being insane, and being obnoxious. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

My current Malkavian is an example of it done right I'd think. Polite, intelligent, and causes antagonists to be afraid to talk to him. Words can be very dangerous in Vampire.

I've always considered Hannibal Lector and the Joker as good examples of how one can play "crazy" and not be a joke.

BobVosh
2011-03-13, 02:41 AM
Good riddance to Fishmalks, but Malkavians have a truck load of potential.

And their disciplines reflect that. Someone might pass them over on first glance, but someone with imagination is going to realize that Obfuscate, Auspex, and Dementation is pretty strong. Domination is just plain broken.

Best to play the sort of character who's capable of manipulating situations to their favor.

There's a difference between being insane, and being obnoxious. Unfortunately a lot of people don't seem to understand that.

My current Malkavian is an example of it done right I'd think. Polite, intelligent, and causes antagonists to be afraid to talk to him. Words can be very dangerous in Vampire.

I was no longer allowed to play Malkavians after I gave one of the party members nightmares. That is how you know you played the insane and dark right, not the fishmalks.

Also I agree with ... someone...up above that V:TM had better flavor, and V:TR had better mechanics. V:TM took far too long due to contested rules, and frankly had so many partial changes that there was a huge list of what the rules currently are. Check out how many variations of celerity there is.

Scarey Nerd
2011-03-13, 05:49 AM
The best Malkavian I ever saw was a mumbling schizophrenic who acted like a child, would just wander off in a seemingly random direction and yell things that didn't seem useful until 2 sessions time. The DM and her worked really hard to make sure she wasn't a fishmalk or catatonic, and it was a fantastic blend.

Anyway, back to the OP: V:TM is really, really fun. As long as you're suspicious of every other player, and give them reason to suspect you, as well. In the first V:TM game I ever played, my character was the end boss. The Toreador that seemed very polite and useful at times turned into a creature of almost pure Abyss. It was fun :smallamused:

If you make sure you have 6 aces in your sleeve at all times and a knife in your boot, you'll do fine in this game :smallbiggrin:

FelixG
2011-03-13, 05:59 AM
I am still annoyed they made Brujahs into gangrel offshoots :P

Narren
2011-03-13, 12:22 PM
A lot of it depends on what kind of game you want to play. I found "Guide to The Sabbat" and "Guide to The Camarilla" useful for both Cam and Sabbat games. The clan books are interesting, some were more useful than others. Same goes for the City books. Gilded Cage gave me a lot of inspiration for heavy political games. "Counsel of Primogen" and "Archons and Templars" was good for higher level play. And I mean higher level as in political, not "powers."

There is so much source material for so many types of games that it's hard to say what would be best.

Semidi
2011-03-13, 02:33 PM
I'm in a play by post one myself. Which would have been hosted here except for how absolutely blasphemous some of the concepts are.

To give an idea as to what sorts of topics have come up?
"Maybe Jesus was a vampire?"
"I've got a plan to eat the soul of god."
"I've got a plan to eat the soul of an archangel."
"I want to transform into Jesus!"


"I've got a plan to eat the soul of god" is actually canon. The Cappadocians supposedly had a ritual permitting them to diablorize God. Really they wanted to bring heaven to earth. The Giovanni thought that was a cool idea, but instead want to bring the underworld to earth.

Aside from the soul of the archangel thing (No doubt some Noddist wants to eat the Angel who screwed Caine over), those are all legitimate concepts.

Xuincherguixe
2011-03-13, 03:06 PM
Yeah, this is a module. I chose not to get into the exact details or I'd be here forever.

Slade
2011-03-17, 11:17 PM
I'm up for a Masquerade game. Hit me up.

FreelanceAngel
2011-03-27, 02:03 AM
To run/play a basic V:tM game, all you need is the core rulebook. Everything else simply adds history, WW's metaplot, locations or new abilities. There's not a lot you get from the sourcebooks- I have nearly all of them- that you can't just gather from skimming various websites. If you've got the main V:tM book, you're in good shape.

And Malkavians who hear voices need to die. People who play Malkavians that gabble, talk in plural, vampirize hummingbirds (seriously...) and scream when you touch their teddy bears need to be taken out back by the nearest Tzimisce and put out of their misery. Crazy is not funny. Crazy is scary. That's why Dementation is a flat-out broken Discipline. Used properly, it can wholly destroy a PC.

Ranos
2011-03-27, 02:43 AM
vampirize hummingbirds (seriously...)

:smalleek:

I'm sorry, but I don't even play vampire and that is just ****ing terrifying. A horde of vampire hummingbirds, ready to swarm you at the command of their demented master ? Game over, man.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-27, 02:58 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't even play vampire and that is just ****ing terrifying. A horde of vampire hummingbirds, ready to swarm you at the command of their demented master ? Game over, man.A swarm of ghouled mosquitos with Potence is just as scary. :smallamused:

Teln
2011-03-27, 05:15 PM
And Malkavians who hear voices need to die. People who play Malkavians that gabble, talk in plural, vampirize hummingbirds (seriously...) and scream when you touch their teddy bears need to be taken out back by the nearest Tzimisce and put out of their misery. Crazy is not funny. Crazy is scary. That's why Dementation is a flat-out broken Discipline. Used properly, it can wholly destroy a PC.

Fishmalks that are funny need to die the Final Death.

Fourth-generation Fishmalks that are funny until you're on the receiving end of their attentions are awesome.

FreelanceAngel
2011-03-28, 01:52 PM
:smalleek:

I'm sorry, but I don't even play vampire and that is just ****ing terrifying. A horde of vampire hummingbirds, ready to swarm you at the command of their demented master ? Game over, man.

It could have been REALLY amazing- like "...okay, my Gangrel is running for cover, I don't care WHAT the Sabbat is doing to the prince's childe, and she's not coming out until those birds are GONE"- but... The player was kind of... bad at trying to be scary. The hummingbirds ended up trying to feed off of their reflections in a plate-glass window while the Malk himself sat down and talked to his teddy bear. The rest of us were busy dealing with the Sabbat pack. >.< All it really did was distract the Storyteller while she was trying to get combat moving.

Malkavians can be pure, unadulterated awesome IF they're played right. I've seen three total, and I've been playing White Wolf's game systems for ten years. ^_^ Those three? Rocked my world.

Daisuke1133
2011-03-28, 06:18 PM
Hey, all. More and more I've been contemplating actually playing a game of this. But I have a concern about how much fun it would really be for me. I don't typically go for the kind of internecine political power-struggles that seem to be inherent in such a story. Is there any way around that kind of thing?

comicshorse
2011-03-28, 06:45 PM
You could always go for a Sabbat game, they tend to be more direct in their interaction with each other and the outside world. One of the Sabbat books had two sections on running Sabbat games entitled "Getting away from the mindless violence" and " Going with the mindless violence" :smallsmile:
( If you do I'd recommend Montreal By Night which is an excellent description of a Sabbat city)

Daisuke1133
2011-03-28, 06:46 PM
Thanks I'll have to check that out.

Mark Hall
2011-03-28, 06:46 PM
Hey, all. More and more I've been contemplating actually playing a game of this. But I have a concern about how much fun it would really be for me. I don't typically go for the kind of internecine political power-struggles that seem to be inherent in such a story. Is there any way around that kind of thing?

Play a Sabbat Pack.

It's really weird. Though the Sabbat are described as anarchic, they tend to be fairly regimented... everyone knows where everyone else stands in power, and unless someone is specifically jockeying for power, they're not going to go too far out of that.

Generally, though, if you don't like intra-party rivalry, don't play VtM. The game thrives on it and, while the world is fairly interesting, the rules are very poorly balanced... they don't stand up well to a number-crunching player.

TheCountAlucard
2011-03-28, 07:51 PM
Generally, though, if you don't like intra-party rivalry, don't play VtM. The game thrives on it...Indeed. Those who've read my Arch Whitman thread can attest to that, yes? :smallamused:

Jeebers
2011-04-04, 03:38 PM
And Malkavians who hear voices need to die. People who play Malkavians that gabble, talk in plural, vampirize hummingbirds (seriously...) and scream when you touch their teddy bears need to be taken out back by the nearest Tzimisce and put out of their misery. Crazy is not funny. Crazy is scary. That's why Dementation is a flat-out broken Discipline. Used properly, it can wholly destroy a PC.

Three things:

First, you should take a look at Dark Ages Vampire. The game mechanics are much better, although at first glance it does appear identical to VtM, it isn't. This is the second edition of the game, with a black cover and a rosary on it.

Second, crazy is not scary. Crazy is typically more pitiful than anything else, once you understand them. They are completely crippled by their mental illness, and are typically (99% likely) to be far more a danger to themselves than to others. This is coming from a guy who studies psychology for a career, and I've spent considerable time around mental patients. Anybody who plays a "fishmalk" in one of my games would be nailed to the wall immediately. Crazy is not silly at all, it's not humorous. I suggest you check out the DSM-IV, it has the symptoms of mental illnesses listed.

Third, the Sabbat is broken as a concept. They couldn't possibly function as a organization at all, given their constant tendency to eat each other, and even worse, the breaking of the Masquerade would have dire consequences. Hunters and Lupines would flock to cities held by the Sabbat, media attention, etc. You want to see the consequences of media frenzy? Check out one of the end times scenarios in the Gehenna book. They go into detail.

elonin
2011-04-10, 08:08 AM
Since WW didn't clearly mark editions on their books I don't know what I have exactly. My first is a floppy book that only has the 7 cam clans and doesn't talk about indies or sabbot. Also there is no mention of unusual disciplines. And as I recall there were a number of clan and faction books. Then there is a second set in hard cover that has some minor changes but still has a focus on cam vamps. Then there is a hard cover edition that has all of the major clans and some bloodlines as well. Can anyone help?