My faith is my sword, my armor, my shield

[JKTrickster]

So recently I've become interested in playing a character based on faith. Someone who can preserve in all challenges, last through any difficulty because they believe and never lose hope. The sort of character that can become the moral spine for the party, to lead them and console them through any challenges.

However, I don't necessarily want to make this a divine character - I want their belief to be in something more primal or rudimentary than gods/goddesses. I want the actual power of their raw belief, not power given from an outside source. Because of that, I want to leave Cleric and Paladin as my last choice.

Does anyone know of any classes (official, homebrewed, or otherwise) that fits this concept? I'm open to either a more martial or more caster oriented class. My only requirements is that this class must be tough - after all if you're a bastion of faith then you shouldn't be the first to fall.

[Octopus Jack]

If you are talking about 3.5 how about Crusader from Tome of Battle. Seems to fit well with your idea.

[Hyfigh]

Crusader? :smallconfused:

:smallfurious: GAH! The Swordsages!! :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

Either a crusader, an incarnate, or both. Especially if you go for a Good incarnate.

Alternatively, an ardent might work, but maybe not.

[FMArthur]

Ardent would absolutely work. Their ability to absorb damage, protect allies and punish enemies for their own offense is some of the best in the game. An Elan Ardent with the racial feats and built to tank can withstand an absolutely stupid amount of duress, in part because of their psion-equivalent PP pool and in part because of the good "offensive defense" powers they can snag.

Crusaders provide more offensive allied support in addition to their strong defensive support though. Warblades also get access to the ally support-based White Raven discipline. A Bard is another good example of support but requires lots of different books to get really awesome at melee and support (they don't have to sing to buff by the way; Perform: Oration is the less idiotic Bard for a serious character).

Really any strong melee character can do what you want, though. What you're asking for is almost 100% in how you roleplay it out.

[JKTrickster]

NO I'm actually looking for a class that has a basis in "belief" for its power. Of course I can roleplay a fighter who believes and fights for those beliefs but I"m looking for a mechanical representation for a class that draws actual power from its beliefs.

Hmm...Incarnate seems interesting...

[only1doug]

while it is actually a bad option mechanically Vow of Poverty (feat) does replicate the conditions you describe.

maybe you can convince your GM to houserule either an upgrade to the benefits or reduce the poverty part a bit.

[Urpriest]

NO I'm actually looking for a class that has a basis in "belief" for its power. Of course I can roleplay a fighter who believes and fights for those beliefs but I"m looking for a mechanical representation for a class that draws actual power from its beliefs.

Hmm...Incarnate seems interesting...

Incarnate, Crusader, Ardent. Those three all have fluff that ties them strongly to belief. Incarnates gain their power through belief in their Alignment (and some stuff with souls and blue gunk), Crusaders are powered by their devotion to a cause, and Ardents gain psionic power through their devotion to abstract ideals. So it partially comes down to what you want to be devoted to.

[Siosilvar]

Ingredients
16 oz. crusader
1/4 lb. knight
1/2 cup paladin fluff
1 tbsp. cleric of an ideal fluff

Directions
Mix crusader and knight in bowl. Sprinkle with paladin and cleric of an ideal fluff.

Chill for 1 hour before serving.

Serves a party of four.[hr]Er... that's my best suggestion.

[begooler]

Maybe a bard? Perhaps even the sub-obtimal divine bard variant? White Raven Crusader Bard? Seeker of the Song?

Edit: Oh, also that weird prestige class in Complete Divine, The Evangelist.

[Seffbasilisk]

If you want to go with homebrew, look up the Believer class. I believe that's modeled after the Alliance official from Serenity.

[MammonAzrael]

NO I'm actually looking for a class that has a basis in "belief" for its power. Of course I can roleplay a fighter who believes and fights for those beliefs but I"m looking for a mechanical representation for a class that draws actual power from its beliefs.

Hmm...Incarnate seems interesting...

That means you need a divine caster. Paladin is the most obvious.

Incarnate, just like crusader, can work, but the mechanics are not faith based (at least the crusader has some faith-based crunch).

[Ravens_cry]

Cleric.
My faith is my sword, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) my sheild (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/protectionFromEvil.htm) my armour (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicVestment.htm).

[FMArthur]

He wants the belief itself to be the source of the power and not merely a mechanism for the use of divine power, which comes from elsewhere. He already knows about Clerics and Paladins and wants something else.

Really, check out Ardent from Complete Psionic. It's literally belief- and philosophy-powered and can be made to do whatever you want through its Mantle system, which are like Domains except that they make up the entirety of your power selection.

[Ravens_cry]

He wants the belief itself to be the source of the power and not merely a mechanism for the use of divine power, which comes from elsewhere. He already knows about Clerics and Paladins and wants something else.

There are Clerics of Ideals, and that equally fits the concept. If they don't want to play a cleric crunchwise, fine, but the fluff fits the idea pretty darn well in my opinion.

[Murdim]

NO I'm actually looking for a class that has a basis in "belief" for its power. Of course I can roleplay a fighter who believes and fights for those beliefs but I"m looking for a mechanical representation for a class that draws actual power from its beliefs.
But... Crusader and Ardent do fit thematically. Crusader maneuvers are miraculously "inspirated" into them, while Ardents draw their powers from the study of abstract concepts.

As a bonus, Incarnates are Intelligence-based, while Ardents are Wisdom-based and Crusaders are (sorta) Charisma-based.

[Urpriest]

But... Crusader and Ardent do fit thematically. Crusader maneuvers are miraculously "inspirated" into them, while Ardents draw their powers from the study of abstract concepts.

As a bonus, Incarnates are Intelligence-based, while Ardents are Wisdom-based and Crusaders are (sorta) Charisma-based.

Incarnates are Wis-based.

[MeeposFire]

Incarnates are constitution based. Wisdom is really only used for save DCs which can be easily avoided, hence why many incarnates go con first int second since it helps them fill the skill monkey role.

[Flickerdart]

There's Soulborn (MoI) and Divine Mind (CPsi) but they're terrible. Really, Ardent is where you want to be.

[MeeposFire]

You could go soulknife and have the sword be created by belief. There is even a feat to make a shield. Not powerful but fits. Would be even better if you went soulbow.

[Doc Roc]

Ardent is your best option from where I sit, other than cleric.

[JKTrickster]

I like the Ardent! Does anyone know homebrewed mantles? I don't quite like some of the choices there, and I want to have a slew of mantles that fit together (Instead of something like Chaos + Force + Life or something) thematically and could compliment each other.

Likewise Incarnates seem really focused on the alignment deal. Not sure if I"m too hot on that :smallfrown:

[Doc Roc]

Can someone post a link to the dominant ideal ACF?

[Thurbane]

Can someone post a link to the dominant ideal ACF?Voila: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

[Murdim]

Incarnates are Wis-based.
Huh. I have no idea how I came to think that Incarnates/Totemists/Soulborn were Int/Wis/Cha-based. They're all Constitution-based, with Incarnates having a bit of Wisdom MAD for their save DC.


I like the Ardent! Does anyone know homebrewed mantles? I don't quite like some of the choices there, and I want to have a slew of mantles that fit together (Instead of something like Chaos + Force + Life or something) thematically and could compliment each other.
The Substitute powers variant rule "fixes" the mantles by letting you add and switch granted powers at will until you have ten powers and at least one power for each level. It's in the same article that Thurbane just linked. Metamorphosis ? In my Physical Power mantle ? It's more likely than you think. :smallbiggrin:

By the way, the (rather yummy) Physical Power mantle do fit your character concept quite well. With powers like Vigor or True Metabolism, it has a very Determinator-ey feel. Definitely something to take as a secondary mantle ASAP.

The Good mantle is a no-brainer as a primary mantle. It also lacks a 9th-level power, so if you are allowed to use the Substitute powers rule, do not hesitate to fill in the blank with a powerful, thematically appropriate one. Like the one that lets you heal your entire party, raise the dead, remove otherwise uncurable affictions, and generally set right what once went wrong. If you know what I mean.

The Communication mantle might be relevant for a paragon type, but unfortunately, it's already overcrowded with low-level powers, most of which are rather lame. Oh, well. It's probably better to just ignore the poorly thought-out "equal or lesser level" part of the Substitute power rule, and trade Missive for, say, Fusion.

[Alleran]

He wants the belief itself to be the source of the power and not merely a mechanism for the use of divine power, which comes from elsewhere. He already knows about Clerics and Paladins and wants something else.
I would have thought that belief in an ideal (e.g. "Neutral Good" or "Justice for all") empowering your magic, even if it is "clerical" in one sense of the word, was quite like what he was asking for. But the Ardent also sounds like a good choice.

Also, if the belief and faith is in spirit, your willpower and your companions, then make sure you get a pair of these (http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/832/1188233739594rc1.png).

[FMArthur]

I like the Ardent! Does anyone know homebrewed mantles? I don't quite like some of the choices there, and I want to have a slew of mantles that fit together (Instead of something like Chaos + Force + Life or something) thematically and could compliment each other.

Likewise Incarnates seem really focused on the alignment deal. Not sure if I"m too hot on that :smallfrown:

Remember that it's not all alignment-based. A Good character who philosophizes on morality can certainly take the Evil mantle, and someone championing the cause against pure societal chaos can take the Chaos mantle. I know it sounds like building the personality around the mechanics, but really my point is that there are so many ways an ardent could view the study of a mantle that each could actually fit just about any character's personality for one reason or another - Ardent fluff is designed to be mutable and dependent solely on the individual, building the mechanics around the personality you have in mind.

[Narren]

Divine Champion from Forgotten Realms may be a fit. They're essentially warriors in the service of a god, and they get some special abilities from it. They have similar classes for arcane spell casters and skill monkey's.

[RagnaroksChosen]

If you don't mind re fluffing an existing class a bit i could see a warlock being as you said. Using his blast and invocs as his faith(or powers of his faith)

[JKTrickster]

Divine Champion from Forgotten Realms may be a fit. They're essentially warriors in the service of a god, and they get some special abilities from it. They have similar classes for arcane spell casters and skill monkey's.

Where's the divine champion?

And refluffing the Warlock seems like a funny idea. Blasting people with raw belief :smallbiggrin:

[Narren]

Where's the divine champion?

And refluffing the Warlock seems like a funny idea. Blasting people with raw belief :smallbiggrin:

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