40K Orks vs. The Galactic Empire

[Lord_Gareth]

The Situation: A single WAAAAAAAAAAGH!, operating on standard procedures, crashes into Nar Shadaa to begin conquest/breeding. The pre-Rebellion-era Galactic Empire must contain or destroy the WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Ready? GO!

[Forum Explorer]

Well I'm actrually going to go against my standard operating procedure here and give this to the Empire. They would lose a couple systems and probly some fleets and armies as well. But than they would gather enough space power+ the death star to exterminate every planet the Orks hit. That would take a while and they might lose even more planets in the mean time, but with the Death Star they can destroy planets faster than the Orks can take them and they are ruthless enough to do so.

[Renegade Paladin]

This is tougher than it looks. The Empire and Imperium of Man are on a rough par in terms of naval firepower. The Imperial Navy (40k) has a much greater stretched-thin problem due to poor communications and unreliable mobility compared to the Imperial Starfleet (Star Wars), and the latter could therefore more easily amass a task force to deal with the Ork fleet. The trick is that the Orks land in Nar Shaddaa, in Hutt space, which the Empire really doesn't give much of a damn about, giving the Orks time to breed and consolidate before facing significant Imperial resistance.

Imperial ground forces are hosed, to say nothing of the local enforcement present on Nar Shaddaa and Nal Hutta, so once the Orks land on a world, you might as well give it up. But once the Orks start moving into Imperial space proper and the nature of the threat becomes apparent, you can count on a large Imperial armada showing up, where one wouldn't if they were fighting the Imperium due to the vagaries of Warp travel and communication preventing a fast response. Over the long run, the Empire certainly defeats and contains a single WAAAGH!, but the question is how many planets they have to bombard to ash before stopping it.

[Lord_Gareth]

Now, can a 40k expert give us any capabilities of Orks in space combat?

[Selrahc]

If we are talking Ork space fleets, here is the most important primary source (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1280010_BFG_Xenos_Fleets.pdf).

Ork space fleets are fairly crude. But very very tough. The bigger Ork fleets will be based around space hulks, incredibly large and tough vessels the most powerful of which will be on a scale close to the Death Star.

A space hulk has absolutely devastating firepower, but is massively unwieldy. It will rely on its escorts.

The Ork "transport fleet" is a general series of "vessels" known as Roks. Basically, hollowed out asteroids, with guns, armour, engines and shields bolted on.

The Ork ships of the line are big, bulky and tough. They have a lot of firepower, but not great accuracy. Boarding and ramming actions are very common. Although there is a large variety among the fleet depending on the Mek that built the ship, with speed freak meks building very fast, relatively light, ships, other meks being obsessed with firepower etc.

In general the Orks have an inferior space fleet to most of the other factions. What they excel at though is putting almost incalculable numbers of Orks on the surface of a planet very very quickly, even facing enemy fleet superiority.

Ork space tactics can normally be described as uncomplicated. Not really poor, but generally not that great. They've a creative genius for dealing with complications though, and can pull off devastating ambushes and traps.

[Innis Cabal]

The problem is 40K space combat operates much in the way old naval combat did during the Spanish Armada. The Empire operates around the same level as WW2 to Modern Day. The problem isn't that the ships move faster (They've got FTL travel and Ork ships do not) but the tactics the ships use are totally different. The Ork fleet has little chance in space combat merely because they're out maneuvered and out tacticed.

[Selrahc]

The problem is 40K space combat operates much in the way old naval combat did during the Spanish Armada. The Empire operates around the same level as WW2 to Modern Day. The problem isn't that the ships move faster (They've got FTL travel and Ork ships do not) but the tactics the ships use are totally different. The Ork fleet has little chance in space combat merely because they're out maneuvered and out tacticed.

BFG is actually based around WW1 battlefleet tactics. The Tau in BFG are actually a modern era naval tactics fleet. Eldar are based more around age of sail.

Tactics in the modern day aren't better than those used back in WW1. They're just different. Both are based around the ships and tactics available. It's just in WW1 the best tactics were based around powerful dreadnoughts, while in WW2 they were based around aircraft carriers.

I'd question your idea that the naval tactics of the Empire are WW2/modern era though. Tie Fighters are important, but surely not more so than the battleships themselves.

[Whoracle]

If I have my timelines right, pre-rebellion GE means no Death Star, so I'd say containment is the only thing the Empire can hope for.

[Axolotl]

I think the key problem for the Empire is that they have to try and wel run an Empire. The Orks don't have that problem they can dedicate everything they have to their war effort. The main advantage the Empire has is technological but since the Orks rely heavily on looting and enemy weapons, I don't think it's an advantage they can hold onto for long.

[Renegade Paladin]

I think the key problem for the Empire is that they have to try and wel run an Empire. The Orks don't have that problem they can dedicate everything they have to their war effort. The main advantage the Empire has is technological but since the Orks rely heavily on looting and enemy weapons, I don't think it's an advantage they can hold onto for long.
The Imperium of Man has the exact same problem you describe and they aren't overrun by all the WAAAGH!s in the galaxy at once; a single one with a single Warlord would be little threat to the Imperium if their other enemies would be removed, and it is the same situation here.

Edit: I should make clear that the only reason I'm giving this to the Empire (and not in a cakewalk, either) is because it is a single WAAAGH! against the entire Empire. There is simply a massive force disparity. Transplant the 41st millennium Milky Way's Ork infestation to the Galaxy Far, Far Away in total and things get very nasty very fast.

[Dr.Epic]

Hmmm...one of these forces can't hit a target to save their lives and were defeated by teddy bears. Yeah, this is a real hard one.:smallannoyed: What next? A balrog verses a red shirt?

[Irbis]

Empire wins, effortlessly. Blasters burn the bodies, meaning no spores. In case any got out, Empire has actual scientists who can identify them, and neutralize ork reproducing cycle with herbicide, as that one Inquisitor almost did.

Even Nar Shadda/Hal Hutta alone win, Hutts have unimaginable resources at their disposal once united, and they subjugated dozens of ork-like races, like Gamorreans or Whipids. At best, they have new, strong subjugated race under their command, at worst, they're forced to wage constant warfare against localized guerilla groups for a few years.


What next? A balrog verses a red shirt?

Better comparison of SW vs Orks would be Morgoth against a halfling, IMHO :smallamused:

[Axolotl]

Empire wins, effortlessly. Blasters burn the bodies, meaning no spores.That would require them to be constantlty shooting the Orks from the moment they enter orbit.


In case any got out, Empire has actual scientists who can identify them, and neutralize ork reproducing cycle with herbicide, as that one Inquisitor almost did.So that when you find where they're growing you can use chemicals to ensure their deformed? Then their only slightly less vulnerable than ordinary children! Oh and that requires you to have control of the planet they're breeding on.

[Emperor Ing]

Hmmm...one of these forces can't hit a target to save their lives and were defeated by teddy bears. Yeah, this is a real hard one.:smallannoyed: What next? A balrog verses a red shirt?

Couldn't have said it better myself. What's gonna happen is that the GE's entire campaign strategy is to fight off the invading ork fleets so their SDs can get into position to initiate Base Delta Zero. If the orks decide dem sta' destroyaz lok perty, then nothin's gonna stop 'em from boarding and taking the SDs. For this same reason, I wouldn't be too suprised if we see an Ork Deff Sta in the near future.

[The Glyphstone]

That would require them to be constantlty shooting the Orks from the moment they enter orbit.



Not to mention once they've killed an Ork with blaster fire (not an easy task by any means - even if we generously let blasters have bolter-level power, it still takes a few hits to down them), they'll have to hose down the entire corpse to ash with bolter fire to incinerate it. Odds of them doing that when they don't know how Orks spread is...small.


Hmmm...one of these forces can't hit a target to save their lives and were defeated by teddy bears. Yeah, this is a real hard one.:smallannoyed: What next? A balrog verses a red shirt?

To be fair, neither side can hit a target to save their lives. It's just that Orks compensate for their incompetence at accuracy with sheer volume.

[Selrahc]

Odds of them doing that when they don't know how Orks spread is...small.


You're right there. It isn't exactly intuitive that when you kill an Ork, he releases a spore cloud resulting in future Orks.

Even after seeing Ork ecosystems spring up in the wake of invasions, it is a hard leap to make that the Ork corpses are responsible. Far more likely would be the idea that the orks were survivors from the attack who had evaded capture. Or new invading forces that had crash landed undetected. Or that part of the invasion involves seeding the planet.

Humanity has tens of thousands of years of fighting Orks. The knowledge that they are a spore based organism who must be incinerated is still not completely widespread knowledge. For the Empire to pick it up in the carnage of battle within a few months, years, or even decades is madness.

[Irbis]

Not to mention once they've killed an Ork with blaster fire (not an easy task by any means - even if we generously let blasters have bolter-level power, it still takes a few hits to down them), they'll have to hose down the entire corpse to ash with bolter fire to incinerate it. Odds of them doing that when they don't know how Orks spread is...small.

Except, complete incineration is what Blasters set to full power do to human body. See, for example, what was left out of Oven and Beru Lars or Vader's line 'No Disintegrations'. Only someone protected by blastproof suit, stormtrooper armour or hit by blast of small power (as the one that hit Leia in RotJ, when stormies tried to capture her) has any chance of survival. I don't think stormtroopers would use anything but strongest settings once they notice how tough Orks are. Against Hutt armies, Orks would fare even worse, as Hutts have many alien auxillaries tough as or tougher than orks, and use full range of illegal weaponry (like Disruptors - SW version of Necron Gauss gun, fusion cutters, or concussion guns).

Orks would have trouble wounding stormtroopers in return, from anything but their equivalent or bolters and big shootas. Everything else will just bounce off.

Oh, and regarding Ork invasions - I was re-reading Caves of Ice just yesterday. Space Hulk full of orks assaults the planet, takes on one regiment nowhere near as well armed or armoured as stormtroopers, Valhallan 597th... and they are massacred by tens of thousands. By one unprepared regiment with hastily drawn defence line. With little losses. Replace them with stormtroopers, and they wouldn't even need Necron intervention to kill all of the orks.


Humanity has tens of thousands of years of fighting Orks. The knowledge that they are a spore based organism who must be incinerated is still not completely widespread knowledge. For the Empire to pick it up in the carnage of battle within a few months, years, or even decades is madness.

All the Empire needs is scientist with microscope studying corpse of new alien race, or even SW bio-scanners (capable of picking even floating viruses) informing soldiers about strange bio-agent used by the enemy.

Imperium took tens of thousands of years, because their version of the above is a guy chanting litanies instead of looking into microscope while burning incense that irrevocably contaminates the sample. Inquisitor Ralei in Xenology needed literally minutes to notice the spores, then a few hours to find anti-spore agent on gardening supplies shelf once he examined it like scientist, not mad preacher.

[boj0]

I believe we are all missing the bigger question here: How many Orkz can Darth Vader fight at once? :smallamused:

[Emperor Ing]

I think you give Stormtroopers WAY too much credit. A legion of The Empire's finest soldiers (The Emperor's words, not mine) were beaten by teddy bears that used sticks and stones. Stormtroopers in general can't hit a single stationary man-sized target at most 30 ft away to save their life, and their armor is only good for protecting against glancing blaster hits and minor fragmentation. Stormtroopers, hell, everyone, almost never set their blasters to full power. I would assume because it eats up a large amount of blaster power, and against a huge number of orks, that would be implausible, especially if you missed, which you will because you're a friggin' stormtrooper.
In reality, what I think the Orks are up against is the equivalent of the Imperial Guard, except much less numerous soldiers (apparently 30 stormtroopers and 2 AT-STs is a "legion",) wimpier tanks/heavy support, and weapons that are only slightly more powerful than lasguns, which are impossible to aim properly.

[LOTRfan]

In reality, what I think the Orks are up against is the equivalent of the Imperial Guard, except much less numerous soldiers (apparently 30 stormtroopers and 2 AT-STs is a "legion",) wimpier tanks/heavy support, and weapons that are only slightly more powerful than lasguns, which are impossible to aim properly.

Uh, source, please? The 501st Legion (or Vader's Fist), the one stationed at Endor, was composed of hundreds of troops. Granted, the majority were stationed on the Death Star (both of them, so their numbers admittedly had dwindled by Episode Six), but there is no way thirty troopers constituted as a legion.

[The Big Dice]

Uh, source, please? The 501st Legion (or Vader's Fist), the one stationed at Endor, was composed of hundreds of troops. Granted, the majority were stationed on the Death Star (both of them, so their numbers admittedly had dwindled by Episode Six), but there is no way thirty troopers constituted as a legion.

that source would be Return of the Jedi. Where there looked to be about 30 Stormtroopers, half a dozen biker scouts, a pair of walkers and a handful of speeder bikes. All of which fell to the unleashed might of the teddy bear.

[Reverent-One]

*Sigh*

People need to watch RoTJ again, the Ewoks did not beat the Stormtroopers themselves. Though their initial swarm attack allowed them to a take a few out, in the end the Stromtroopers had the Ewoks running. What the Ewoks really contributed was causing a distraction that allowed the rebels to get back into the fight and, here's the main thing, helping Chewie get up into one of the At-st's.

[LOTRfan]

that source would be Return of the Jedi. Where there looked to be about 30 Stormtroopers, half a dozen biker scouts, a pair of walkers and a handful of speeder bikes. All of which fell to the unleashed might of the teddy bear.

Although the majority wasn't seen fighting, EU sources state that there were thirty seven AT-STs (although six different ones are seen in the movie), and at least one AT-AT is seen on the film (why it wasn't deployed, I have no idea. Perhaps the forest was to dense? :smallconfused:). As mentioned before, the majority of the Legion was stationed on the Death Star itself.


*Sigh*

People need to watch RoTJ again, the Ewoks did not beat the Stormtroopers themselves. Though their initial swarm attack allowed them to a take a few out, in the end the Stromtroopers had the Ewoks running. What the Ewoks really contributed was causing a distraction that allowed the rebels to get back into the fight and, here's the main thing, helping Chewie get up into one of the At-st's.

QFT.

[The Big Dice]

*Sigh*

People need to watch RoTJ again, the Ewoks did not beat the Stormtroopers themselves. Though their initial swarm attack allowed them to a take a few out, in the end the Stromtroopers had the Ewoks running. What the Ewoks really contributed was causing a distraction that allowed the rebels to get back into the fight and, here's the main thing, helping Chewie get up into one of the At-st's.

Actually, the fight goes the other way. First, the Stormtroopers are mowing down Ewoks and sending the bears running back into the trees. Then the Ewoks make a comeback, with log traps to take out walkers and so on.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that Owen Lars' farmstead was taken out by a thermal detonator? It fits the observable evidence on screen much better than Owen and Beru getting gunned down.

[LOTRfan]

Also, am I the only one who thinks that Owen Lars' farmstead was taken out by a thermal detonator? It fits the observable evidence on screen much better than Owen and Beru getting gunned down.

That was my initial thought as well, but both theories are wrong. According to Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina, the storm troopers used tanks to burn it to the ground.

EDIT: Actually, I just reread it, and the exact device used to kill them is not outright stated, but it is a powerful projectile weapon.

[Ganurath]

Da Boyz iz startin' da big WAAAGH! on dat Nar Shadaa, roit? Dat's got nuttin but humie gretchin and cowards dat run at da first sight of da Orks. Dis planet belongs to da Orks 'fore ya know it. Dem Hut Boyz would den try talkin, and we'd smash 'em up proppa. Dey'd make a fuss 'bout shootin' da messenger, but let it by dis time cuz dey knew better than ta send their fat butts fer real. Dey ain't all bad, though: Dey point out the Empire humies with all the lootin' and armies for a proppa WAAAGH!

WAAAAAGH!

Anywut, da boyz launch fer dem humie worlds and start hittin' 'em good. Turns out not all dem worlds 'ave humies, but dey all 'ave da same fleets and shootas fightin' fer 'em, and dat's what counts. Da Roks hit da planet, and dem Hut Boyz weren't foolin' 'bout da lootin' one bit! Da Mek Boyz iz havin' a party! Gettin' dese planets takes more time dan Nar Shadaa, and dem Imperial gits are trying to get da humies on da planets off da planets! Dese planets belong to da Orkz!

'Ventually da boyz launch for more planets for war and lootin' and stuff, but da Imperial humies 'ave way more ships dis time, and not as many Roks get ta da planets. We get to da surface, though, cuz dem humies think da fightin' and lootin' iz in da black stuff. Once da boyz are in it good, da planet iz ours like da others. Dem Imperial humies put up a betta fight, though, so it's a propa WAAAGH!

WAAAAAGH!

Next wave goes like da last, but Roks dat hit dem Star Destroyas 'ave messages on dem 'bout some humies fightin' da humie Warboss: Dem humies don't like da Orkz lootin' planets dat da Imperial humies wuz fightin' for. Da Warboss tried ta fix it by makin' da Imperial Boyz fight da Orkz to keep 'em from da good loot, but da WAAAGH! iz too big to be beat, and da humies iz tryin' ta keep da rebel humies in line too. Ain't no stoppin' da Orkz now, we've got us a proppa WAAAGH!

WAAAAAGH!

[Axolotl]

Except, complete incineration is what Blasters set to full power do to human body.Have you seen Star Wars? Because I have and people don't get disintegrated by blasters.

[Reverent-One]

Actually, the fight goes the other way. First, the Stormtroopers are mowing down Ewoks and sending the bears running back into the trees. Then the Ewoks make a comeback, with log traps to take out walkers and so on.

Correction, Chewie in an AT-ST makes a comeback for the Rebels/Ewoks, sending the Stormtroopers running, which allows the Ewoks to use traps to take out a couple of other AT-STs.

[LOTRfan]

Have you seen Star Wars? Because I have and people don't get disintegrated by blasters.

Have you read any expanded universe material? Because I have and people are reduced to a fine dust at the highest possible settings (then again, there is also a chance of the gun exploding when this is done, but still).

[Lord_Gareth]

Have you read any expanded universe material? Because I have and people are reduced to a fine dust at the highest possible settings (then again, there is also a chance of the gun exploding when this is done, but still).

Y'know, I'm leery of the EU material being in this debate, given that it fluctuates the Star Wars power level so wildly, but I suppose if we're going to allow all the 40k supplements we might as well. It isn't as though Orks don't fight people that annihilate planets with their minds anyway.

[LOTRfan]

Y'know, I'm leery of the EU material being in this debate, given that it fluctuates the Star Wars power level so wildly, but I suppose if we're going to allow all the 40k supplements we might as well. It isn't as though Orks don't fight people that annihilate planets with their minds anyway.

You're right. Guidlines as to what can be used can help. Other wise, why wouldn't the Empire just Delta Zero the Orkz?

[Axolotl]

Have you read any expanded universe material? Because I have and people are reduced to a fine dust at the highest possible settings (then again, there is also a chance of the gun exploding when this is done, but still).I has assumed that we would go by what happens in the actual movies, how foolish of me.

[LOTRfan]

I has assumed that we would go by what happens in the actual movies, how foolish of me.

... Yeah, we're definitely going to need some guidelines here. :smallsmile:

Any suggestion, Lord Gareth?

[Lord_Gareth]

... Yeah, we're definitely going to need some guidelines here. :smallsmile:

Any suggestion, Lord Gareth?

Both universes can get redonkulously over the top, so...

Okay. We'll allow anything unless there's a compelling reason not to. However, scale should be kept in mind - Orks, for example, regularly take rockets to the face. And survive. Messed up, certainly, but they survive.

Additionally, to extrapolate on the scenario before - Nar Shadaa is the redheaded stepchild of the Empire, which is why I chose that planet. The Orks are going to be able to WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! towards other planets from there, at which point the Empire is going to get involved pretty seriously. However, Imperial Stupidity should be kept in mind.

Lastly, Irbis, even if we wanted to have this "Stormtrooper armor is teh invulnerabullllzzzz" debate again, the power of the WAAAAAAAAAAAGH! has been repeatedly demonstrated to be > armor. Ork Sluggaz and Shootaz will work just fine.

[LOTRfan]

Alright. Well, rocket launchers in Star Wars are more powerful than blasters (even on their highest setting), so I guess blasters on high would seriously injure, but not kill, Orkz. Yikes. :smalleek:

I think I'll have to give this one to the Orkz, if it is fully planetary-based battle.

[chiasaur11]

Actually, the fight goes the other way. First, the Stormtroopers are mowing down Ewoks and sending the bears running back into the trees. Then the Ewoks make a comeback, with log traps to take out walkers and so on.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that Owen Lars' farmstead was taken out by a thermal detonator? It fits the observable evidence on screen much better than Owen and Beru getting gunned down.

Everyone knows that's what happened. Domestic dispute gone wrong, and the poor stormtroopers got caught in the middle. Shame, really.

[The Big Dice]

Everyone knows that's what happened. Domestic dispute gone wrong, and the poor stormtroopers got caught in the middle. Shame, really.

It just goes to show, never get involved in a domestic. You'll only lose.

[Warlawk]

Except, complete incineration is what Blasters set to full power do to human body. See, for example, what was left out of Oven and Beru Lars or Vader's line 'No Disintegrations'. Only someone protected by blastproof suit, stormtrooper armour or hit by blast of small power (as the one that hit Leia in RotJ, when stormies tried to capture her) has any chance of survival. I don't think stormtroopers would use anything but strongest settings once they notice how tough Orks are. Against Hutt armies, Orks would fare even worse, as Hutts have many alien auxillaries tough as or tougher than orks, and use full range of illegal weaponry (like Disruptors - SW version of Necron Gauss gun, fusion cutters, or concussion guns).

Orks would have trouble wounding stormtroopers in return, from anything but their equivalent or bolters and big shootas. Everything else will just bounce off.

I think you're vastly overestimating empire tech. Orks don't seem to have much trouble dealing with space marine armor, and I am just not buying that stormtrooper armor is tougher than astartes. Gotta remember, (most) orks prefer MOAR DAKKA instead of just blasting clean through. Sure, one shot isn't going to punch through the armor, but there's never just one shot. And a good many of them just use the dakka as a distraction to get close enough to use their choppas. A storm trooper in close combat with an ork is done.

As for ork resilience to attacks... they're able to stand up to bolter shots pretty dang well, and are roughly as tough as the genetically engineered superhuman space marines. I'm just not seeing them falling over and dieing from every blaster shot, not even taking into account stormtrooper accuracy which I will grant is writer fiat. It wouldn't be very interesting if the stormtroopers just gunned down all the heroes, even though at their level being trained soldiers, that's likely what would have happened.

All in all, I would say that an ork is probably considerably harder to kill than an armored stormtrooper is. At range the orks lose, but once they close to melee the stormtroopers are nothing but fodder. With the numbers the orks can put out, they WILL close to melee.

In the larger picture, I honestly don't know enough star wars to put in a good opinion. I've seen all the movies a couple times and that's it. I just don't follow it that much.



Oh, and regarding Ork invasions - I was re-reading Caves of Ice just yesterday. Space Hulk full of orks assaults the planet, takes on one regiment nowhere near as well armed or armoured as stormtroopers, Valhallan 597th... and they are massacred by tens of thousands. By one unprepared regiment with hastily drawn defence line. With little losses. Replace them with stormtroopers, and they wouldn't even need Necron intervention to kill all of the orks.


Writer fiat does strange things eh? The writer wanted the guard to look like heroes so he wrote it that way. Not exactly a good representation of how things generally go down in almost every other battle.

[Moff Chumley]

And anyhow, wasn't CAIPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM involved in that one? :smallwink:

[Forum Explorer]

And anyhow, wasn't CAIPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM involved in that one? :smallwink:

and the Orks got attacked by Necrons as well. The guard only ever fought the vanguard of the horde.

[chiasaur11]

And anyhow, wasn't CAIPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM involved in that one? :smallwink:

Yes. He was.

He's the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, and it was a million to one shot.

We all know how million to one shots work, I trust?

[Ytaker]

Orkz often serve as cannon fodder, in story. The empire has repeating machine guns and other big mounted weapons which can kill a lot of them.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/E-Web_heavy_repeating_blaster

In close combat they'd obviously lose, but they'd be able to hit them pretty hard at range. The empire has more dakka too.

I think it's clear, though, that ork space hulks would lose to star destroyers. The aerial advantage for the imperium would be huge.

[LOTRfan]

I agree. In space combat, Empire wins, no contest.

Planetary combat, though... yeah, the Empire might be able to take out bunches of Orkz, but they cannot hold off a sustained assault. It'd just be easier to Base Delta Zero everything...

[Ganurath]

...And when words get out that the Empire is spamming Base Delta Zero on civilian worlds, they suddenly find it much more difficult to give the Orks the neccesary attention due to the rebellion that was already stirring gaining more momentum than it ever would have had from a meer Death Star.

[LOTRfan]

...And when words get out that the Empire is spamming Base Delta Zero on civilian worlds, they suddenly find it much more difficult to give the Orks the neccesary attention due to the rebellion that was already stirring gaining more momentum than it ever would have had from a meer Death Star.

They were able to get away with it during the Falleen Bacteria Crisis. Perhaps if they could convince the general population it was a necessity (in order to prevent the spread of a nigh-unstoppable infestation), perhaps they could get away with it again? Probably not, though. :smallsigh:

[Emperor Ing]

Uh, source, please? The 501st Legion (or Vader's Fist), the one stationed at Endor, was composed of hundreds of troops. Granted, the majority were stationed on the Death Star (both of them, so their numbers admittedly had dwindled by Episode Six), but there is no way thirty troopers constituted as a legion.

My source is the freakin' movie. Granted, the stormtrooper that hit Leia was probably able to do more in 5 minutes than all the other stormtroopers from the other 19,999* legions' lifetimes to the power of itself so their title of "my [The Emperor's] finest legion" is probably well-earned for that one single reason, and I can understand their numbers have dwindled, but what Solo & Friends fought is not a legion. A legion consists of THOUSANDS of soldiers. They fought dozens. A company at the VERY most, yet The Emperor called it a legion.
The most I can say here is that a legion can possibly mean something totally different in "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" than it would today.

[Selrahc]

I think it's clear, though, that ork space hulks would lose to star destroyers.

It really really isn't.

Ork Space Hulks are fleet killers. Devastating super weapons that serve as the lynchpin of an entire waaagh. Their power breaks worlds.

Even if every other ship in the ork fleet was inferior to the Star Destroyers, which is far from a given, Space Hulks are on a whole other level. A space hulk can take on multiple capital ships and dozens of their escorts simultaneously and come out on top, entirely without support.

And note, I don't think star destroyers really are substantially better than Ork battleships. Ork battleships are six times their size, and are noticeably over-gunned and over-armoured for their weight class. An Imperial Star destroyer is only the size of a light cruiser in 40K terms, and is generally fairly undergunned at that.

[comicshorse]

.. Base Delta Zero

Just for me what does that refer to ?

[Tavar]

Systematic elimination of all life on the surface of the planet done by orbital bombardment.

[comicshorse]

Systematic elimination of all life on the surface of the planet done by orbital bombardment.

Thanks.
Yes that seems the way to go,

[Ytaker]

It really really isn't.

Ork Space Hulks are fleet killers. Devastating super weapons that serve as the lynchpin of an entire waaagh. Their power breaks worlds.

Even if every other ship in the ork fleet was inferior to the Star Destroyers, which is far from a given, Space Hulks are on a whole other level. A space hulk can take on multiple capital ships and dozens of their escorts simultaneously and come out on top, entirely without support.

And note, I don't think star destroyers really are substantially better than Ork battleships. Ork battleships are six times their size, and are noticeably over-gunned and over-armoured for their weight class. An Imperial Star destroyer is only the size of a light cruiser in 40K terms, and is generally fairly undergunned at that.

Oh, I thought they served mostly as troop transports. I don't really know much of the fluff about space hulks.

If you are a fan, could you give the general specs of a space hulk, so we know what they'd be facing? Fire rate, common super weapons, stuff like that.

[Renegade Paladin]

Okay guys, rein yourselves in a bit. One WAAAGH! is not going to overrun an entire galaxy. Hundreds at once don't do it in 40k; one isn't going to do it here. The Orks are tough. If the entire Milky Way Ork infestation were to attack the Empire, the Empire would be toast, at least as we know it, but that isn't the scenario. They're hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned by an enemy with the ability to bring huge amounts of its total force to bear within days if necessary.

If they could bide their time, work through the Outer Rim, and build themselves an empire in which to multiply and build up undetected or at least underestimated, then sure, they could do heavy damage. But they won't. Dat's un-Orky, ya gitz! :smalltongue: As soon as they heard about the Empire and its military might, they'd head straight for the Core, to get to da good fightin' as rapidly as possible. And then they die. Messily, but they die all the same.

[The Glyphstone]

Okay guys, rein yourselves in a bit. One WAAAGH! is not going to overrun an entire galaxy. Hundreds at once don't do it in 40k; one isn't going to do it here. The Orks are tough. If the entire Milky Way Ork infestation were to attack the Empire, the Empire would be toast, at least as we know it, but that isn't the scenario. They're hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned by an enemy with the ability to bring huge amounts of its total force to bear within days if necessary.

If they could bide their time, work through the Outer Rim, and build themselves an empire in which to multiply and build up undetected or at least underestimated, then sure, they could do heavy damage. But they won't. Dat's un-Orky, ya gitz! :smalltongue: As soon as they heard about the Empire and its military might, they'd head straight for the Core, to get to da good fightin' as rapidly as possible. And then they die. Messily, but they die all the same.

Of course they die, but they can't lose. Cause if they win, they win; if they die, they died fightin' so it don't count; and if they run away, they can aways come back for another go, see?

[Tavar]

I think the real question is how badly the Empire is going to be hurting after this. And what it's going to mean for their whole social situation.

[Lord_Gareth]

Alright, a potentially more interesting question: what scale of WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH! do we need to give the Orks an honest shot at winning without being auto-win?

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe if we throw Gazgul Mag Uruk Thraka and WAAAAAUGH Gazgul at them? Gazgul is a fairly good tactician by human standards (which makes him a regular Orkish Sun Tzu), and he leads the largest WAAAAAUGH in history. That could be an interesting matchup against the Empire.

[Lord_Gareth]

Gorgutz 'Ead 'Hunter and his WAAAAAAAAGH! may also be interesting, as Gorgutz has actually discovered the tactical retreat.

[Emperor Ing]

I think what happens is that the Orks and the Empire are used to fighting on completely different scales. 40k is over-the-top where all factions throw around enough firepower to level a city over the course of a minute, and these wars that the battles are waged from have been ongoing for over ten thousand years.
The Orks, despite their constant outfighting and constant infighting, still comprise the single most numerous and powerful fighting force in the 40k universe. They have a nearly unsurpassed knack for technology as anything, ANYTHING (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs18/f/2007/169/6/9/Looted_Golden_Throne_by_Jaekyu.jpg) they get their hands on can be made to work under their control with absolutely no issues.
The Empire, although it also possesses an incredible fighting force, is no match for a faction that is so over-the-top. In order to compete, they have to use exotic, in many cases illegal, in all cases rare and/or impractical, weapons just for one solider to have firepower roughly equal to what their Ork counterpart has standard-issue.
With the exeption of space battles (and even that appears to be gravitating in the Orks' favor) I think the Empire is toast. While it's safe to say that one WAAAAAAGH!! won't destroy the entire Galactic Empire because that's absurd, it WILL do more than enough damage for it to be considered a good WAAAAAAAGH!! by ork standards.

[Moff Chumley]

With the exeption of space battles (and even that appears to be gravitating in the Orks' favor) I think the Empire is toast. While it's safe to say that one WAAAAAAGH!! won't destroy the entire Galactic Empire because that's absurd, but it WILL do more than enough damage for it to be considered a good WAAAAAAAGH!! by ork standards.

I think this is a fairly good synopsis. Regardless of how large in scale the Orks are, the Galactic Empire is fairly huge also, and if they're capable of bringing their entire force to bear against something, they'll probably defeat it, eventually.

[Tavar]

Yeah. The question then becomes, how much damage was done, and what happens next. Does the rebellion ever form? Or does it use the weakened state of the empire to split earlier? Or something else?

What happens if it starts on Tatooine?

[dgnslyr]

Hmm, my first question with anything involving the Galactic Empire is how (in)competent we decide they are. After all, their representation in the movies is hardly flattering.

Slightly unrelated, but how do you pronounce WAAAAUUUUGH in conversation? Ruling out yelling loudly, anyways.

[Lord_Gareth]

Yeah. The question then becomes, how much damage was done, and what happens next. Does the rebellion ever form? Or does it use the weakened state of the empire to split earlier? Or something else?

What happens if it starts on Tatooine?

Luke dies and I throw a party that rages for eight days and nine nights in celebration.

[The Glyphstone]

Yelling loudly, and lots of saliva.

[Zaydos]

With how the Empire controls propaganda and news travelling from the Outer Rim to the Core Worlds most of the Core Worlds would think it was the Rebellion destroying worlds. Also taking out Nal Hutta and neighboring space helps the Empire against the Rebellion as many Rebellion pilots were, like Han Solo, smugglers first.

IF this is before Episode IV you have the question of how this would influence Han Solo and Luke Skywalker. Tatooine isn't that far from Nal Hutta and if Tatooine gets orks'ed then bye bye Rebellion.

[Moff Chumley]

This is indeed pre-rebellion, as stated by the OP. Going by EU, Thrawn Trilogy, to be specific, elements of the Rebel Alliance started forming fairly quickly after the Emperor seized power, so it's safe to assume the Orks invade just as the Empire is getting established.

[Foeofthelance]

Yes. He was.

He's the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, and it was a million to one shot.

We all know how million to one shots work, I trust?

If I recall correctly, the Valhallans also technically failed the mission, since to get rid of the Necrons and Orks they blew up the promethium rig they were supposed to be protecting. There was also something about an Ork mecha that had Cain seriously put out...


My source is the freakin' movie. Granted, the stormtrooper that hit Leia was probably able to do more in 5 minutes than all the other stormtroopers from the other 19,999* legions' lifetimes to the power of itself so their title of "my [The Emperor's] finest legion" is probably well-earned for that one single reason, and I can understand their numbers have dwindled, but what Solo & Friends fought is not a legion. A legion consists of THOUSANDS of soldiers. They fought dozens. A company at the VERY most, yet The Emperor called it a legion.
The most I can say here is that a legion can possibly mean something totally different in "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" than it would today.

I don't think the entire 501st was present on Endor. For starters, there are at least two different bases shown: the one with AT-AT that Vader and Luke met up on before he was dragged off to the Death Star, and the Shield Generating plant which was deeper in the forest and guarded by AT-STs and a small detachment. Looked like maybe a platoon or two.

That doesn't make the Emperor wrong in referring to them as the 501st Legion. "Alpha Squad of the Third Platoon of Alpha Company of the First Battalion of the Third Brigade of the Second Division of the 501st Legion are the finest soldiers in the galaxy!" just doesn't trip off the tongue as easily. So you refer to the overall command structure the unit belongs to rather than the specific troops on the ground.

[Tavar]

With how the Empire controls propaganda and news travelling from the Outer Rim to the Core Worlds most of the Core Worlds would think it was the Rebellion destroying worlds. Also taking out Nal Hutta and neighboring space helps the Empire against the Rebellion as many Rebellion pilots were, like Han Solo, smugglers first.

I wouldn't say that. The world would be devastated, but the smugglers would likely be able to flee; they are the mobile parts of the population, after all.

And if it's pre-Rebellion, it's kinda hard to blame the Rebellion for what's happening.

[Emperor Ing]

I don't think the entire 501st was present on Endor. For starters, there are at least two different bases shown: the one with AT-AT that Vader and Luke met up on before he was dragged off to the Death Star, and the Shield Generating plant which was deeper in the forest and guarded by AT-STs and a small detachment. Looked like maybe a platoon or two.

That doesn't make the Emperor wrong in referring to them as the 501st Legion. "Alpha Squad of the Third Platoon of Alpha Company of the First Battalion of the Third Brigade of the Second Division of the 501st Legion are the finest soldiers in the galaxy!" just doesn't trip off the tongue as easily. So you refer to the overall command structure the unit belongs to rather than the specific troops on the ground.

Valid point. Although I do believe that the shield generator would be an extremely high-priority target and should be defended with something larger than Alpha Squad. Okay, I know that nothing says "There's something extremely important here" like having an AT-AT stand on guard, but that's no excuse for NOT having at least 20 scout troopers with snipers in hidden treetop roosts watching imperial engineers as they come and go from the shield generator at all times, as well as a garrison of stormtroopers the size of at least 1/4 of something that can AT THE VERY LEAST be described as a Division.

[Zaydos]

I wouldn't say that. The world would be devastated, but the smugglers would likely be able to flee; they are the mobile parts of the population, after all.

And if it's pre-Rebellion, it's kinda hard to blame the Rebellion for what's happening.

The Rebellion starts at the end of Episode III though. The Rebellion existed the whole time the Empire was in power.

Moving on, though, one must also remember that at the beginning of the Empire Tatooine was part of Hutt Space which was considerably bigger. If this is the beginning of the Empire they can still blame it on scattered and lingering Seperatists, or claim it's a Jedi superweapon of some sort.

The question does arise as to whether this would aid the Rebellion founding senators in getting Senatorial support for the Rebellion when it still mattered. It also means that the Empire won't be cracking down as hard on unorganized crime for a while (which is why the smugglers hated them).

Oh and Luke dies and with him hope for the Rebellion because this is back when the Hutts still control Tatooine.

[Selrahc]

Oh, I thought they served mostly as troop transports. I don't really know much of the fluff about space hulks.

If you are a fan, could you give the general specs of a space hulk, so we know what they'd be facing? Fire rate, common super weapons, stuff like that.

It's basically kind of random. For a few reasons.
Space Hulks are odd things, and the degree to which Orks fully control them is also highly variable.
A space hulk is an agglomeration of dozens of vessels and other space debris, all tangled together in the warp. In the wild Space Hulks move randomly around the galaxy, drifting in and out of the warp currents.
When Orks find Space Hulks though, they colonize them. They are highly valued prizes, and many a mek dreams of having a Space Hulk to work on.
Ork space hulks are slightly more controlled. They pop out of the warp at places where the orks choose, and are generally controlled if very unresponsive.

A properly Ork controlled hulk, and I'd assume that is what we'd be dealing with here as the lynchpin of the waaagh, will be festooned in weapons and heavily reconstructed for added strength.
The weaponry consists of literally every ship board weapon the Orks can create or loot. Dozens of capital ship guns. Countless waves of fighta-bombaz and torpedo bays. A few special projects of the Big Meks that should be well capable of junking capital ships in a single shot/volley.
It's also a nearly invulnerable ship, both because it has so many bits that can
be shrugged off and because of the heavy armour plate and numerous void shields.

The big weakness of space hulks is in mobility. They aren't slow, but they turn like a cow, and they're nearly impossible to stop moving even if you want them to. Wherever you are, you'll be in range of frightening firepower but it is definitely possible to slip out of the firing envelope of their biggest guns.

The bigger Space Hulks will probably be nudging up around the more conservative estimates for the size of the Death Star (160km, although nowhere near the 1000KM high estimates).
A controlled space hulk is basically an Ork Death Star. As you'd expect, it is noticeably more ramshackle and less consistent. But it is very scary.

[Killer Angel]

Writer fiat does strange things eh? The writer wanted the guard to look like heroes so he wrote it that way. Not exactly a good representation of how things generally go down in almost every other battle.

We could tell the same 'bout stormtroopers and teddy bears.
On Hoth, they did better.

But yeah, Empire's best only chance, is in space.

[profitofrage]

I just got the picture of an Ork wielding three blasters tapped together with a lightsaber strapped to it like a bayonet.
I also picture a wierdboy turning a Jedi into a squig...and that squig then making a rather valient attempt to continue fighting.

[Parra]

So given the Orks actually take and own the first planet (not unreasonable given it is outside Imperial rule and hence shouldn't cause an immediate imperial response) and their ability to use any tech they find, how long would it take to utilise Star Wars Hyperdrive Technology taken from salvaged ships? and/or make more of their own?

If you give the orks the ability to use hyperdrive travel, coupled with their desire to look for the best fights, what would their first targets be?

Despite any potential Imperial Naval superiority, once you have orks with a few dozen working hyperdrive engines you have the rapidly escalating problem of a galaxy wide battlefield. Could Imperial forces cope with that sort of strain?

[hamishspence]

And note, I don't think star destroyers really are substantially better than Ork battleships. Ork battleships are six times their size, and are noticeably over-gunned and over-armoured for their weight class. An Imperial Star destroyer is only the size of a light cruiser in 40K terms, and is generally fairly undergunned at that.

If you go by length, Imperial-class destroyers are comparable to frigates (1.6 km, same as a Sword class frigate).

Ork battleships, according to Rogue Trader (the new roleplaying game), are around 11 km long.

[The Glyphstone]

The size of Super Star Destroyers then. That's....a bit of a scale mismatch, to be certain. How many ISDs do you need to take down an SSD?

[Killer Angel]

Ork battleships, according to Rogue Trader (the new roleplaying game), are around 11 km long.

...and they had the bumper sticker: "We brake for nobody". :smalltongue:

[GeekGirl]

Hmmm...one of these forces can't hit a target to save their lives and were defeated by teddy bears. Yeah, this is a real hard one.:smallannoyed: What next? A balrog verses a red shirt?

I don't think you can make that argument based solely on the movies. Almost the entire time the ST's were fighting hero.. Named characters which had to live through the series, of course they were going to lose. In RoTJ (as mentioned above) the ewok died like champs, they did a great job to cause chaos and spread confusion, but they really didn't kill many troopers. Look at the opening to A new Hope, they took Tantive IV barely loosing a solider. Battle of Hoth, once you take the hero advantage out, Storm Trooper aren't exactly push overs.

Personally I don't know enough about Orks to say who would win, but i dont think they would just walk over the empire.


The Super-class was described as 8,000 meters long, armed with 250 turbolaser batteries, 250 heavy turbolaser batteries, 250 ion cannons, 250 concussion missile tubes, and 40 tractor beam projectors.[1]
It would carry twelve TIE squadrons (including two TIE Interceptor squadrons) and more than fifty other small craft. For ground operations, it would carry a full corps of ground troops, apparently mixing stormtrooper legions with regular Army personnel, plus 25 AT-ATs, 50 AT-STs, and three prefabricated garrison bases. It would have been crewed by 280,734.[1]

[profitofrage]

now the thread knows why most "40K vs X" threads end in 40K being hte victor.


Edit for above: Its mostly the fact that Orks spread like wild fire. there like a persistant desease....it flares up..you squash it....then after a while it flares up again...you can cut off the rotten parts..but it will just flare up somewhere else again. Ultimatly..the host lives with the desease..or dies.

[shadow_archmagi]

Having not bothered to read the previous pages, I"m going to give my assessment:

The Orks win land battles. The 40k Imperial Guard has a lot of experience fighting Orks, and comparable weaponry to the Empire, and they generally experience preposterous casualties. If the Orks start on Nar Shadaa, they're going to have access to small, hyperdrive capable ships. That means that we're going to see orks spreading all over the place. Orks in Looted X-Wings crashing into Tatooine and Dantooine and Alderan, and then from there the infestation spreads...


Basically, imagine the battle of Endor if there were ten times as many Ewoks and they were twice the size of stormtroopers and they had machineguns, tanks, and Killa Kans. (http://wh40k-dawn-of-war.webs.com/photos/-Dawn-Of-War-Concept-Art/Killa%20kan.jpg)

[profitofrage]

Basically, imagine the battle of Endor if there were ten times as many Ewoks and they were twice the size of stormtroopers and they had machineguns, tanks, and Killa Kans. (http://wh40k-dawn-of-war.webs.com/photos/-Dawn-Of-War-Concept-Art/Killa%20kan.jpg)

And could take grenades to the face

[Renegade Paladin]

The size of Super Star Destroyers then. That's....a bit of a scale mismatch, to be certain. How many ISDs do you need to take down an SSD?
Smaller than the Executor class (clocking in at 16.5-19km), though certainly in the range of some of the Imperial battlecruisers seen in Dark Empire. The 8 km figure for the Executor derives from the West End Games RPG, which is flatly contradicted by the movies. (To be expected, since WEG basically just made up all their numbers without bothering to scale just to have something to put in the stat blocks.)

And Star Destroyers being comparable to the Imperium's frigates is really to be expected, since they fill about the same role. Think of what we see them doing in the movies. They pursue light vessels, conduct reconnaissance, and escort and screen larger warships. They certainly don't behave like capital ships, and since we know that the Empire has larger ship classes, there's no reason to presume that they are considered capital ships, as opposed to the analogue of naval destroyers - which is right in the name.

[shadow_archmagi]

Also, the Orks are legitimately in-universe silly. It's one of their special properties.

Imagine, if you will, a regiment of stormtroopers marching through the forest. One of them hears a snap, turns around, sees a big Ork with a big gun right behind him. Gunfire ensues. The sudden wave of automatic fire cuts down ten men before anyone can turn and fire; it takes several dozen blaster shots to the chest to bring him down. In the meantime, his shoota produces a lot of bullets. White-shelled corpses litter the battlefield.

An imperial engineer cautiously approaches the corpse. He slowly picks up the massive, spiked gun. He finds a latch; opens up the gun to see its inner workings and study the enemy technology.

The inside of the gun is a hollow with three screws, a spring, and a dead squirrel rattling around inside. The engineer cries.

[Tavar]

And Star Destroyers being comparable to the Imperium's frigates is really to be expected, since they fill about the same role. Think of what we see them doing in the movies. They pursue light vessels, conduct reconnaissance, and escort and screen larger warships. They certainly don't behave like capital ships, and since we know that the Empire has larger ship classes, there's no reason to presume that they are considered capital ships, as opposed to the analogue of naval destroyers - which is right in the name.

Except the larger class is almost completely non-existent in terms of numbers. For all practical purposes, yes those are capital ships. In fact, in universe they are called such, and are some of the largest ships in most fleets, the other option being the Mon Calimari Cruisers.

[Renegade Paladin]

Except the larger class is almost completely non-existent in terms of numbers. For all practical purposes, yes those are capital ships. In fact, in universe they are called such, and are some of the largest ships in most fleets, the other option being the Mon Calimari Cruisers.
For the vast majority of the movies, there are no situations in which it would make sense to deploy a large force of heavy capital ships. You don't dispatch a battleship to chase down a fast blockade runner. You don't deploy a heavy cruiser to do recon work. The Executor was a more than sufficient heavy ship presence for the mission in The Empire Strikes Back; why waste resources sending more? The only situation where it would make sense is the Battle of Endor, and since the Rebellion didn't field any vessels heavier than light cruiser weight if you presume the Executor to be a battleship on the scale, it wasn't really warranted there either. Though it should be noted that there was some sort of heavier vessel other than the Executor in the Imperial fleet, as the Falcon is seen skimming over the ventral surface of an Imperial warship at one point and encounters no hangar bay. This is probably the communications ship mentioned in the RotJ novelization, but it would also fit with the Allegiance class heavy destroyer seen in Dark Empire.

[hamishspence]

This is probably the communications ship mentioned in the RotJ novelization, but it would also fit with the Allegiance class heavy destroyer seen in Dark Empire.

Saxton states that this "Allegiance class" is the same as the ships seen escorting the Eclipse in Dark Empire- and gives them a length of 2.2 km.

Wookieepedia refers to this class as the "Imperial-class Super Star Destroyer" since it's referred to as a Super Star Destroyer at one point, and an "Imperial-class" at another point.

[Friv]

Valid point. Although I do believe that the shield generator would be an extremely high-priority target and should be defended with something larger than Alpha Squad. Okay, I know that nothing says "There's something extremely important here" like having an AT-AT stand on guard, but that's no excuse for NOT having at least 20 scout troopers with snipers in hidden treetop roosts watching imperial engineers as they come and go from the shield generator at all times, as well as a garrison of stormtroopers the size of at least 1/4 of something that can AT THE VERY LEAST be described as a Division.

Technically speaking, the area that the rebels attack on Endor is a small backup entrance which no one's supposed to know about. Most of the legion was over at the main generator base, which is where the AT-ATs were patrolling and where Vader was hanging out, and where Luke went. I mean, from a design standpoint, god knows why anyone would build a base that way, but there you go. The lightly-defended backup base is where the rebels hit, so one assumes that most of the legion was occupied several kilometers away.

[shadow_archmagi]

Technically speaking, the area that the rebels attack on Endor is a small backup entrance which no one's supposed to know about. Most of the legion was over at the main generator base, which is where the AT-ATs were patrolling and where Vader was hanging out, and where Luke went. I mean, from a design standpoint, god knows why anyone would build a base that way, but there you go. The lightly-defended backup base is where the rebels hit, so one assumes that most of the legion was occupied several kilometers away.

Indeed, the entire base was constructed under the designs of Chief Engineer "Bloody Stupid" Johnson.

[Forum Explorer]

Indeed, the entire base was constructed under the designs of Chief Engineer "Bloody Stupid" Johnson.

Yes the plan was orignially to have that giant sattilite dish about 2 meters high. :smallbiggrin:

[BRC]

Technically speaking, the area that the rebels attack on Endor is a small backup entrance which no one's supposed to know about. Most of the legion was over at the main generator base, which is where the AT-ATs were patrolling and where Vader was hanging out, and where Luke went. I mean, from a design standpoint, god knows why anyone would build a base that way, but there you go. The lightly-defended backup base is where the rebels hit, so one assumes that most of the legion was occupied several kilometers away.

A Backup base that can still take down the entire generator isn't so much a "Backup" as it is a hole in your defenses big enough to drive a star destroyer through.

In fact, having such a "Backup" is basically the exact opposite of what a "Backup" should be. A Backup should be something they switch to if the main generator gets taken down, making the whole system harder to destroy, not easier.

That said, as for the original question, I can't say for sure, how many Orks are we talking about here. A WAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHH can be anything from a couple thousand orks on motorbikes, to a unrelenting green tide based around a space hulk with heavy battleships swarming around it like flies around and elephant and led by a Warboss so big he could headbut a titan.

And as for Caves of Ice, they didn't win, they Survived. The Orks in question had a Gargant, which tells us something about the the power of the WAAAUUUGGHHH in question. Had the Necrons not shown up, the Valhallans would likely have died trying to defend that outpost unless more help was on the way.
As for the success they did have, remember that these were Valhallans, who specialize in fighting on Ice Worlds and killing Orks, fighting Orks on an Ice World.

[Brother Oni]

A controlled space hulk is basically an Ork Death Star. As you'd expect, it is noticeably more ramshackle and less consistent. But it is very scary.

Out of curiosity, would an orc controlled space hulk be entirely under the control of the orks, or would they have to contend with being in the majority control and leaving certain parts to other space hulk denizens like daemons and genestealers?

How do orks survive warp travel anyway? All Imperium ships have special shields to keep out eldritch warp nasties - do orks survive due to their special psychic field?

[shadow_archmagi]

Out of curiosity, would an orc controlled space hulk be entirely under the control of the orks, or would they have to contend with being in the majority control and leaving certain parts to other space hulk denizens like daemons and genestealers?

How do orks survive warp travel anyway? All Imperium ships have special shields to keep out eldritch warp nasties - do orks survive due to their special psychic field?

I believe it would depend on the Hulk; some would be entirely Orky while others they would just be one voice among several.

I believe the Orks method for preventing Warp Demons from taking over the ship is "Punching."

No, seriously, I think they just enjoy the extra fighting that warp demons add.

[Axolotl]

Out of curiosity, would an orc controlled space hulk be entirely under the control of the orks, or would they have to contend with being in the majority control and leaving certain parts to other space hulk denizens like daemons and genestealers?Given the Orks penchant for exploration and fighting I think it's unlikely they would allow any sections of the ship to remain in enemy hands for long, even if this meant masssive casualties from clearing those parts of the hulk they'd probably just view it as a bonus.


How do orks survive warp travel anyway? All Imperium ships have special shields to keep out eldritch warp nasties - do orks survive due to their special psychic field?They probably have some crude form of gellar fields, remember the Orks were engineered by a race that specialised in manipulating the warp so they probably have a decent understanding (even if it's on a subconsious level) of all the things required for warp travel.

[Selrahc]

Out of curiosity, would an orc controlled space hulk be entirely under the control of the orks, or would they have to contend with being in the majority control and leaving certain parts to other space hulk denizens like daemons and genestealers?

It depends on how long they've held it and how well they've explored it. But it is probably majority Orkish. Space Hulks carry millions of Ork boyz to the fight, so any wandering gribblies probably won't last long.



They probably have some crude form of gellar fields, remember the Orks were engineered by a race that specialised in manipulating the warp so they probably have a decent understanding (even if it's on a subconsious level) of all the things required for warp travel.

Yes. It's a ship component known as the "Really Big Teef", which operates as a Gellar field. But only works for an Ork krew, so captured Ork ships aren't warp capable. (Or, they are. But you shouldn't really attempt it.)

[Ytaker]

Thanks for the knowledge, Selrahc.

Space hulks sound very tough to defeat. I'd imagine the empire would be able to gather up enough firepower, but only if the orkz chose to let them. If they can slip in and out of warp randomly they'd be very hard to destroy. And in the mean time, another planet has an ork infection. You could very easily have one moving from planet to planet, building up a massive waargh.

[shadow_archmagi]

Honestly, I think the space hulks are the least of their worries. I think their biggest problem would be the the looted frigates and merchant ships spreading them across the galaxy. Orks inhabit pretty much every single habitable planet in 40k, and there's good reason for that.

[Brother Oni]

If they can slip in and out of warp randomly they'd be very hard to destroy.

Bear in mind that warp travel has its own issues, from variable time spent in the warp (ships have been known to spend years or centuries inside the warp while only a few real time days pass), exiting the warp (ships have left the warp years/centuries in real time after they went in although they've only subjectively spent a few weeks in the warp, or even leaving before they went in) or simply never exiting (crew usually eaten by gribblies when their Gellar fields fail, or their ship was lost/destroyed in a warp storm).

Just because the orks can get a hulk pointed in the right direction during warp travel, is no guarantee they control it reliably, certainly not to the degree that GE hyperspace provides.

[The Glyphstone]

Bear in mind that warp travel has its own issues, from variable time spent in the warp (ships have been known to spend years or centuries inside the warp while only a few real time days pass), exiting the warp (ships have left the warp years/centuries in real time after they went in although they've only subjectively spent a few weeks in the warp, or even leaving before they went in) or simply never exiting (crew usually eaten by gribblies when their Gellar fields fail, or their ship was lost/destroyed in a warp storm).

Just because the orks can get a hulk pointed in the right direction during warp travel, is no guarantee they control it reliably, certainly not to the degree that GE hyperspace provides.

If they manage to mount hyperdrive(s) on a space hulk, on the other hand...do you want to be manning the poor Interdictor cruiser assigned to intercept that?

[Brother Oni]

If they manage to mount hyperdrive(s) on a space hulk, on the other hand...do you want to be manning the poor Interdictor cruiser assigned to intercept that?

"Sir, incoming hyperspace signature!"

"Very well, deploy gravity wells. We'll catch those blasted smugglers this time!"

*A gigantic space ship with Really Big Teeth drops out of hyperspace*

"Oh ****."

"WAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"


Edit: Still don't think the orks will get any real control out of a hyperspace drive - reliable, precise, efficient - doesn't really sound very orky to me, plus I don't think they like an engine they can't paint red.

[shadow_archmagi]

How big are Warp Drives, anyway? Would it be feasible to teleport aboard someone's ship and then build and activate one?

[dgnslyr]

What exactly are these Really Big Teef? Punching in "really big teef ship component" into just gets me back to this thread, but my google-fu is not the best in the world. I understand it generates a Gellar field, which is some kind of force-field that protects you from the Big, Scary Monsters inside the Warp, but what exactly do these Really Big Teef look like?

[Renegade Paladin]

If they manage to mount hyperdrive(s) on a space hulk, on the other hand...do you want to be manning the poor Interdictor cruiser assigned to intercept that?
Depends. Do I get to hide behind one of these? (http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Assertor/index.html) :smalltongue:

[Misery Esquire]

Depends. Do I get to hide behind one of these? (http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Assertor/index.html) :smalltongue:

I think we're all forgetting the most important part of the Orks capturing an ISD Or SSD.

...Where are they going to find that much red paint?

[The Glyphstone]

I think we're all forgetting the most important part of the Orks capturing an ISD Or SSD.

...Where are they going to find that much red paint?

They don't need to paint the whole thing, though they will undoubtedly try. Big red stripes down the sides will suffice to make it Go Fasta if they don't have enough.

[Fan]

Everyone knows they can just use humie blood, and dere's plenty of dat on dese big humie kroozah's.

[The Glyphstone]

Only when it's fresh. Dry oomie blood is all dark and dirty-looking, not the proper bright red that you need to Go Fasta. It's actually bad for paint, though it makes decent impromptu warpaint in the middle of a fight.

[Forum Explorer]

I think we're all forgetting the most important part of the Orks capturing an ISD Or SSD.

...Where are they going to find that much red paint?

Well they manage to paint their own kroozers red which are bigger than an ISD. I guess some Rouge Trader out there is making a fortune on paint sales. :smallamused:

[Arcanoi]

If the Orks manage to get their hands on Hyperdrive tech, the Empire loses. The Orks won't hesitate to use Roks with over-large hyperdrives as intergalactic ballistic missiles. Even a large Imperial fleet stationed around a planet wouldn't be able to stop the Orks if they ignored all safety concerns and shot their Roks into the planet's gravity well.

[chiasaur11]

If the Orks manage to get their hands on Hyperdrive tech, the Empire loses. The Orks won't hesitate to use Roks with over-large hyperdrives as intergalactic ballistic missiles. Even a large Imperial fleet stationed around a planet wouldn't be able to stop the Orks if they ignored all safety concerns and shot their Roks into the planet's gravity well.

Why would they?

Killin' umie gits from orbit ain't a good scrap.

[Arcanoi]

Why would they?

Killin' umie gits from orbit ain't a good scrap.

What do you think is the payload on those missiles? That's right, Orks.

[BrainFreeze]

Given that there is no warp in the Star Wars universe, the Orks cant help but lose. They are traveling at sub-light speeds against an Empire that can bring most if not all it's forces to bear in a weeks time. This is while it will take the Orks years to move between planets in 1 solar system.

The Empire has the tech to find out how the Orks reproduce quickly unlike the Imperium, the Empire is actually a advanced organization that is capable of near instantaneous data transfer across the universe.

A space hulk has no chance against a Eclipse Class Star Destroyer. This ship has the power to wipe out a continent in a shot, ripping apart planetary shields and cracking the crust.

Anything other then a full invasion by the Orks will fail, damage will be caused but it will not get very far. If we don’t include the warp then the Orks will fail before leaving a single star system.

[Arcanoi]

Given that there is no warp in the Star Wars universe, the Orks cant help but lose. They are traveling at sub-light speeds against an Empire that can bring most if not all it's forces to bear in a weeks time. This is while it will take the Orks years to move between planets in 1 solar system.


Alternatively, there are no hyperdrives in the 40k universe, so...



The Empire has the tech to find out how the Orks reproduce quickly unlike the Imperium, the Empire is actually a advanced organization that is capable of near instantaneous data transfer across the universe.


Figuring out that the Orks reproduce through spores is not enough to defeat them. The Imperium has measures to counter the spore reproduction, whether they know why it helps or not, and this doesn't stop the Orks.



A space hulk has no chance against a Eclipse Class Star Destroyer. This ship has the power to wipe out a continent in a shot, ripping apart planetary shields and cracking the crust.


Which in the given scenario, the Empire would not possess, and even if it did, it would have, at maximum, one.



Anything other then a full invasion by the Orks will fail, damage will be caused but it will not get very far. If we don’t include the warp then the Orks will fail before leaving a single star system.

This brings to question how long the Orks would have to loot Star Wars tech and multiply before they engaged in full-scale war with the Empire. Orks with the best of 40k and Star Wars tech will crush anything in either Universe.

[BrainFreeze]

Alternatively, there are no hyperdrives in the 40k universe, so....

This scenario takes place in the star wars universe though, the warp has no bearing here.




Figuring out that the Orks reproduce through spores is not enough to defeat them. The Imperium has measures to counter the spore reproduction, whether they know why it helps or not, and this doesn't stop the Orks.


Some forces of the imperium have measures, the Orks have been defeated by the Imperium many times, and lets face it the Imperium are backwater as far as tech is concerned.



This brings to question how long the Orks would have to loot Star Wars tech and multiply before they engaged in full-scale war with the Empire. Orks with the best of 40k and Star Wars tech will crush anything in either Universe.

Not long at all. Without the means to move between star systems, the Orks will be wiped out before they can make significant gains. In this scenario they are attacking the moon of Nar Shaddaa (4,750 KM Diameter, 85 billion people). Even for the Orks this will take weeks or fighting to take. By the time they have this one planet the forces needed to remove them will be there.

[MammonAzrael]

What exactly are these Really Big Teef? Punching in "really big teef ship component" into just gets me back to this thread, but my google-fu is not the best in the world. I understand it generates a Gellar field, which is some kind of force-field that protects you from the Big, Scary Monsters inside the Warp, but what exactly do these Really Big Teef look like?

I'm not exactly sure as I'm not a 40k expert, but I believe they look like exactly what they sound like. Really big jagged teeth attached to or made out of the space hulk. To scare away the things that live in the Warp.

[Arcanoi]

This scenario takes place in the star wars universe though, the warp has no bearing here.


And it goes against the entire spirit of a Vs. Thread, was my point.



Some forces of the imperium have measures, the Orks have been defeated by the Imperium many times, and lets face it the Imperium are backwater as far as tech is concerned.


The Imperium could still 'beat' the Orks without these measures. Slowing Ork reproduction only weakens the Orks when they come around for another go.


In this scenario they are attacking the moon of Nar Shaddaa (4,750 KM Diameter, 85 billion people). Even for the Orks this will take weeks or fighting to take. By the time they have this one planet the forces needed to remove them will be there.

The Imperium has similar planets, called Hive Worlds and these still fall, and relatively quickly, to the Orks despite having ground forces of enough quality to battle the Orks (Whether they have the quantity to is a different story). Nar Shadaa isn't exactly known for its armies. I'd give it a month, at most.

[drakir_nosslin]

Not long at all. Without the means to move between star systems, the Orks will be wiped out before they can make significant gains. In this scenario they are attacking the moon of Nar Shaddaa (4,750 KM Diameter, 85 billion people). Even for the Orks this will take weeks or fighting to take. By the time they have this one planet the forces needed to remove them will be there.

And why would the empire be interested in that fight? Nar Shaddaa isn't in Empire space yet IRRC.

[Forum Explorer]

Given that there is no warp in the Star Wars universe, the Orks cant help but lose. They are traveling at sub-light speeds against an Empire that can bring most if not all it's forces to bear in a weeks time. This is while it will take the Orks years to move between planets in 1 solar system.

The Empire has the tech to find out how the Orks reproduce quickly unlike the Imperium, the Empire is actually a advanced organization that is capable of near instantaneous data transfer across the universe.

A space hulk has no chance against a Eclipse Class Star Destroyer. This ship has the power to wipe out a continent in a shot, ripping apart planetary shields and cracking the crust.

Anything other then a full invasion by the Orks will fail, damage will be caused but it will not get very far. If we don’t include the warp then the Orks will fail before leaving a single star system.

If they loot a single ship they can keep spreading. Or we can have it that the Orks can still use the warp and the Empire has just completley ignored it for safty reasons.

Nothing the Empire has on the ground can handle an Ork invasion so once the Orks get there that planet is doomed.

[king.com]

This scenario takes place in the star wars universe though, the warp has no bearing here.


If you use that arguement, orks cant even use guns, let alone fly a space ship.

[BrainFreeze]

If you use that arguement, orks cant even use guns, let alone fly a space ship.

Right..if you go by the abilities each side has in the scenario as presented by the OP then the Orks have no chance here.

[Renegade Paladin]

This scenario takes place in the star wars universe though, the warp has no bearing here.
Oh, come off it. That's just a cop-out; the technology of both sides works as normal or we're not having a fair comparison. :smallannoyed:

[Selrahc]

Given that there is no warp in the Star Wars universe, the Orks cant help but lose. They are traveling at sub-light speeds against an Empire that can bring most if not all it's forces to bear in a weeks time. This is while it will take the Orks years to move between planets in 1 solar system.

If you reject the premise to that extent, it isn't going to be helpful.
Nobody is forcing you to participate in this thread you know.

Something I have never understood in versus threads is this attitude to negate the entire question through an unsatisfactory cheat. "What if the Orks and Empire fought?" "Well technically speaking the Orks wouldn't get FTL, making them sitting ducks." "Thanks for that. What a fun discussion."

It might be a potential complication to address if we were writing a crossover, but it has no place in a versus thread.


A space hulk has no chance against a Eclipse Class Star Destroyer. This ship has the power to wipe out a continent in a shot, ripping apart planetary shields and cracking the crust.

A space hulk has a chance against the Planet killer, which has a laser that smashes entire planets into rubble. I think it at least has a *chance* against an Eclipse.

For one thing, cracking the crust on a continent doesn't sound like it would wipe out a Space Hulk. Even ignoring the layers of void shields, the Space Hulk is an ~80KM lump of adamantium and plasteel. That to me sounds like a tougher thing to crack than rock.

[Robert Blackletter]

Right..if you go by the abilities each side has in the scenario as presented by the OP then the Orks have no chance here.


Mmmmmmmmmmm...no the O.P says


The Situation: A single WAAAAAAAAAAGH!, operating on standard procedures, crashes into Nar Shadaa to begin conquest/breeding. The pre-Rebellion-era Galactic Empire must contain or destroy the WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Ready? GO!

Standard operating procedures would include access to the warp. The o.p also has no mention of what universe it based in, in fact i would say that the O.P postulate that the two universe are merged some how.

for example maybe the 40k universe is long in the future/ past of the star war universe which as yet to gain/ lost knowledge of the warp. and the vulgarity of the warp as sent one WAAAAAAAAAAAGH! into the future/ past.

Hell they could even exist at the same time in different galaxies. Through you do bring one good question, now the empire knows about the warp what do they do with the knowledge?

[cdstephens]

Oh, come off it. That's just a cop-out; the technology of both sides works as normal or we're not having a fair comparison. :smallannoyed:

Ditto. If you don't have the Warp, a Waaaagh! can't really exist in the first place, can it? The Orks would lose hands down. I think it'd be OK to assume the Warp only affects Orks and hyperspace only affects the Empire; Orks don't generally employ psykers I think, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue. I doubt Orks would summon Daemons, so that's not an issue either (no need to bring Chaos into this, unless Chaos is secretly the Dark Side XD).

However, should Force users be able to affects Orks? They weren't able to directly affect the Vong (though they did develop Vong sense and were able to affect them indirectly; i.e. hurling stuff at them).

I'd also like to point out that a few Star Destroyers would be able to preform a pretty nice Exterminatus without the Death Star (the space station was more of a symbol than a practical device anyways). Anyone remember the Sith blowing the crap out of Dantooine, Taris, and Telos during the Old Republic era? Sure, the planet wasn't completely destroyed, but the surface inhabitants were doomed.

Or, even better, Malachor V. http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/d/d1/MalachorV.jpg

In any case, the Empire would win hands down if the Orks started with only one planet. The Empire could easily blast the planets into oblivion using efficient communication and travel (yay Hyperspace!). Some Force using higher up, probably Sidious, would sense some disturbance somewhere I would think. The Orks also rely on numbers, but until they get a very sizable force that works against them.

Now what I be interested in seeing would be Mandalorian vs. Ork.

[BrainFreeze]

Ditto. If you don't have the Warp, a Waaaagh! can't really exist in the first place, can it? The Orks would lose hands down. I think it'd be OK to assume the Warp only affects Orks and hyperspace only affects the Empire; Orks don't generally employ psykers I think, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue in that sense either. Force users however should be able to affect Orks.

The point of that is to maybe convince the OP to actually read the sticky with the rules for making VS posts, instead of just ignore them and not flesh out the scenario. There are too many questions here, we can assume that this takes place in the Star Wars universe due to the fact that he stated the moon that it takes place on.

Logic says that the warp does not exist in the star wars universe, but if we assume it does we have to cut the empire off from it because we cant really guess how that would effect them.

In the end though even with the warp available to them a single waaagh starting at one moon does not have much of a chance of establishing a large enough foot hold to be a valid threat to the empire.

[Robert Blackletter]

Logic says that the warp does not exist in the star wars universe, but if we assume it does we have to cut the empire off from it because we cant really guess how that would effect them.


Why? with the info in the o.p you can not assume, the o.p could be clearer but i still read it as a merged universe consisting of both cannons.
Also I believe the tau are cut off from the warp? (not a 40k expert so may be wrong) the star war universe just happens to be full of species that are unable to interact with it.

[cdstephens]

Also I believe the tau are cut off from the warp? (not a 40k expert so may be wrong) the star war universe just happens to be full of species that are unable to interact with it.

They're not cut off, they just don't fully interact with it. Their ships still use the warp, but not as much as the Imperium, for example, does. What this means is that they travel more slowly, do not possess psykers, but not Tau being has ever fallen to Chaos.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau#Tau_and_the_Warp
I think theoretically if we applied the Warp to Imperial space, that the Warp situation would be similar before the Eldar created the Eye of Terror and such; thus, much more calm and filled with much less daemons.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well they manage to paint their own kroozers red which are bigger than an ISD. I guess some Rouge Trader out there is making a fortune on paint sales. :smallamused:

I see what you did there.


I think it'd be OK to assume the Warp only affects Orks and hyperspace only affects the Empire; Orks don't generally employ psykers I think, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue. I doubt Orks would summon Daemons, so that's not an issue either (no need to bring Chaos into this, unless Chaos is secretly the Dark Side XD).


Actually, Ork Wierdboyz are an official unit. I'd also argue that Orks are free to loot imperial tech but not vice versa, due to the nature of Orky tech.




However, should Force users be able to affects Orks? They weren't able to directly affect the Vong (though they did develop Vong sense and were able to affect them indirectly; i.e. hurling stuff at them).


I'd say let them directly interact. It's not like Jedi are going to have a very big impact. (Orks routinely fight Eldar, who are basically Jedi: The Race)




I'd also like to point out that a few Star Destroyers would be able to preform a pretty nice Exterminatus without the Death Star (the space station was more of a symbol than a practical device anyways). Anyone remember the Sith blowing the crap out of Dantooine, Taris, and Telos during the Old Republic era? Sure, the planet wasn't completely destroyed, but the surface inhabitants were doomed.


Oh, sure, they can definitely bombard huge continents of the planet into dust. I'm not forgetting that. It's just that it won't be cost effective early on, when there's like ten orks in the middle of nowhere (Would the empire even notice?) and then later on when there's Ork encampments across the globe, it'll be down to a decision between Exterminatus and ground warfare, and either one is a huge loss for the Empire.




In any case, the Empire would win hands down if the Orks started with only one planet. The Empire could easily blast the planets into oblivion using efficient communication and travel (yay Hyperspace!). Some Force using higher up, probably Sidious, would sense some disturbance somewhere I would think. The Orks also rely on numbers, but until they get a very sizable force that works against them.

Well, if Nar Shadaa isn't imperial, it's unlikely they'll know or care initially. Once the looted ships begin to spread across the galaxy, you're going to have Orks on every planet, and Orks are pretty hard to shake off. If the Empire immediately dedicated huge amounts of resources to combing every planet and eliminating any continent where there had been Ork sightings... maybe.

But my guess is that since Orks rely on numbers, they'll be ignored for quite some time. The Orky fungus will spread and soon every planet in the Empire will have Orks on every continent. If I remember my KOTOR correctly, Taris was content to let the poor be devoured by terrifying mutants. If coroscant had similar apathy, the empire would have serious problems.

[GeekGirl]

Nothing the Empire has on the ground can handle an Ork invasion so once the Orks get there that planet is doomed.

Thats assuming the empire really cares if they loose a planet or two in the process. We've all seen them destroy one planet for no real reason, those who have read the books have seen them do it to a few others. And a Wedge explained in the Emeny Lines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Lines:_Rebel_Dream) series. Star destroyers are the empires heavy ground forces, the ships were designed for orbital bombardment. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero)

Everyone seems worried about Orks taking over a star destoyer. So my next question, Orks are fairly dumb, their weapon work because they want them too (Im pretty sure that hows it goes at least). Would they be able to use the empires technology; like Hyperdrive, Navacomputer, targeting systems on the ships?

Also I give you the Errant Venture (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Errant_Venture). There is enough red paint in the galaxy for a Star Destoyer (twice).

[druid91]

Thats assuming the empire really cares if they loose a planet or two in the process. We've all seen them destroy one planet for no real reason, those who have read the books have seen them do it to a few others. And a Wedge explained in the Emeny Lines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Lines:_Rebel_Dream) series. Star destroyers are the empires heavy ground forces, the ships were designed for orbital bombardment. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero)

Everyone seems worried about Orks taking over a star destoyer. So my next question, Orks are fairly dumb, their weapon work because they want them too (Im pretty sure that hows it goes at least). Would they be able to use the empires technology; like Hyperdrive, Navacomputer, targeting systems on the ships?

IIRC Looting is instinctive to them. They make use of imperium technology all the time.

Besides their weapons work most of the way. They just aren't very good. Take a bunch of scrap give it to someone who was given a vague description of how guns work. And have them build it.

That's Ork tech. It works just not very well. The waagh gives it the edge it needs to compete with precision built machinery and craftsmanship. And so it goes from a piece of junk but fully functional gun to a fully functional deadly, reliable peice of junk.

[GeekGirl]

Alright, I don't really have much experience with 40k so I'm not sure what their capabilities are.

[BRC]

Yeah, Orks could definotally loot "Hypa Drives". They wouldn't be very efficient or precise, and Orks probably wouldn't be able to build them themselves, but they would work.

[Emperor Ing]

I emphasize: Orks can loot anything (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tZ4z8tcvICA/THlBh68NYiI/AAAAAAAAAAQ/GNRO-7rD-P4/s1600/Looted+Carnifex.jpg) and make it work. They just favor Imperium technology because da humies are their biggest foes. The Mek Boyz are gonna have a field day lootin' Stah Destroyahs.
Said Stah Destroyah will likely see combat against the Empire again, this time armed to the teef with big orky gunz and painted blue so it's lukky.

[Ytaker]

The orkz are actually probably the most advanced side, in terms of warp usage and shielding. They have excellent personal shield technology and they can teleport from orbit down to the planet with ease.

If we cross them over, I'd probably assume that the ork waargh is some sort of advanced force meld, and that they cross through some sort of force hell to get from place to place. That works pretty well in explaining what they can do.

[Brother Oni]

That's Ork tech. It works just not very well. The waagh gives it the edge it needs to compete with precision built machinery and craftsmanship. And so it goes from a piece of junk but fully functional gun to a fully functional deadly, reliable peice of junk.

Unless orks have been retconned since my time, I disagree with reliable.

The Ork Shokk Attack Gun* is proof enough of both their technology's deadliness and unreliability.

*For those unfamiliar with the weapon, it's essentially a teleporter which fires a small ork subspecies called snotlings at targets.
Highly effective when it works, infantry are usually killed when a small crazed mini-ork is teleported into their helmets or other gaps in their armour and even vehicles have issues when their weapon barrels/crew compartments are suddenly filled with gibbering green balls of teeth and claws.
When it doesn't work, the gun usually opens up a rift to the warp on top of them, pulling the gunner, the snotling herd and their herders, screaming into the warp.

[The Glyphstone]

Unless orks have been retconned since my time, I disagree with reliable.

The Ork Shokk Attack Gun* is proof enough of both their technology's deadliness and unreliability.

*For those unfamiliar with the weapon, it's essentially a teleporter which fires a small ork subspecies called snotlings at targets.
Highly effective when it works, infantry are usually killed when a small crazed mini-ork is teleported into their helmets or other gaps in their armour and even vehicles have issues when their weapon barrels/crew compartments are suddenly filled with gibbering green balls of teeth and claws.
When it doesn't work, the gun usually opens up a rift to the warp on top of them, pulling the gunner, the snotling herd and their herders, screaming into the warp.

As said earlier, it varies by edition. The Shokk Attack Gun was, if I recall, in 2nd edition (and maybe 5th), where Orks were the designated comedy relief. Their weapons and abilities were supposed to be random, unreliable, and amusing regardless of outcome. The established fiction tends to portray them and their tech as being crude, brutish, and by all logical standards impossible or at least highly improbable, but still managing to function as effectively as most normal gear.

[Renegade Paladin]

As said earlier, it varies by edition. The Shokk Attack Gun was, if I recall, in 2nd edition (and maybe 5th), where Orks were the designated comedy relief. Their weapons and abilities were supposed to be random, unreliable, and amusing regardless of outcome. The established fiction tends to portray them and their tech as being crude, brutish, and by all logical standards impossible or at least highly improbable, but still managing to function as effectively as most normal gear.
It's in the 4th edition codex (Orks haven't gotten a 5e one yet).

[The Glyphstone]

It's in the 4th edition codex (Orks haven't gotten a 5e one yet).

Ahk, so 2nd and 4th. I guess I'm still sore from the 3rd edition printing, where they forgot to include the chart listing what their weapons have for stats.

[Axolotl]

Everyone seems worried about Orks taking over a star destoyer. So my next question, Orks are fairly dumb, their weapon work because they want them too (Im pretty sure that hows it goes at least). Would they be able to use the empires technology; like Hyperdrive, Navacomputer, targeting systems on the ships?Their tech doesn't just work because they think it will, there are numerous examples of Imperial troops using looted ork technology. All that they're gestalt psychic presence does is that it keeps weapons running, as in they don't jam or degrade properly. All Ork tech still obeys the laws of physics (or at least 40Ks version of them).

As for them being dumb, it's not really the case, while they're certainly primative culturally from any sort of objective standpoint the orks are geniuses technologically. They can go from spear wielding savages to having automatic weapons and planes within a few generations, and a few generations after that they have everything from teleporters to shaceships, granted they're still savages but their tech progresses much faster than almost anybody else's will. Add to this the fact that they can loot and instictively understand most technology their opponent use this gives them a big edge.

[Renegade Paladin]

Their tech doesn't just work because they think it will, there are numerous examples of Imperial troops using looted ork technology. All that they're gestalt psychic presence does is that it keeps weapons running, as in they don't jam or degrade properly. All Ork tech still obeys the laws of physics (or at least 40Ks version of them).
The Orks don't stop thinking their weapons work just because some humies are holding them. If the looted Ork technology continued to work when removed from the presence of Orks, then there'd be something to talk about. I haven't read a lot of the novels, so I honestly don't know if it does or not.

[Axolotl]

The Orks don't stop thinking their weapons work just because some humies are holding them. If the looted Ork technology continued to work when removed from the presence of Orks, then there'd be something to talk about. I haven't read a lot of the novels, so I honestly don't know if it does or not.It does continue to work when taken away from the Orks. it just malfunctions noticably more than when in the hands of the Orks.

[Tavar]

Kinda. Now, this is some of the more basic tech, regular bolters and wagons, and the like. And they do work, though the presence of Orks removed some need for maintenance, and stopped stuff like explosive missfires from happening.

[shadow_archmagi]

I also distinctly remember seeing schematics for an Orky Bomber that had no connection between the fuel supply and engine.

Anyway, my guess is that it all comes down to whether the Orks can spread fast enough. One planet? The Imperials can blast it, sure. Half their planets? Things begin to get problematic.

[Ytaker]

Between editions it goes back and forth on whether the orkz psychic field makes impossible things happen or just greases the wheels. There's one picture where a gun is just made of a cog connected to a bullet. The makers aren't really sure. Most recently, the psychic powers just grease things.

[Tavar]

More complicated tech has many more Orks working with it/invested in it/involved. Thus, the field is stronger, allowing things that have no reason at all to function to work somewhat well.

At least, that's how I'd explain it.