[3.5] Heightening spells up to 10!

[tuesdayscoming]

How would one best go about doing this? Sanctum Spell is the obvious one, but I'm just really not fond of that feat, and would love to come up with something else.

I'm trying to do this so that, as a Chameleon (RoDest) I can use Extra Slot to pick up 9th level spells. Since I'm going to have to take Extra Slot 3 times (for 7th, 8th, and 9th), I'd really love to find a way to do this that is as feat independent as possible.

Any ideas?

[Urpriest]

Well Earth Spell is of course one of the main options. I also think Circle Magic might remove the Heighten cap, can someone investigate?

[Ducklord]

I'm not 100% sure you could get heighten above lvl9 with circle magic. The text in my DMG is a bit murky on the subject and I don't think I can quote it.

[dextercorvia]

You can prepare lower level spells in higher level slots. So if you are using heighten methods to get to nines anyway, you might take 3 extra slots, but take them all at 9.

Sanctum Spell, Earth Spell, Improved Krau Sigil are the usual culprits for getting to 10. Sanctum is the least feat intensive, and you can use your floating feat to grab it just when you need it.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm not 100% sure you could get heighten above lvl9 with circle magic. The text in my DMG is a bit murky on the subject and I don't think I can quote it.

Of course you can quote it. Quoting passages for analysis is the very definition of fair use.

[Aspenor]

You may heighten spells up to level 20 with circle magic through red wizard. This is a 100 % for sure fact.

[gomipile]

Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell is an easy way to get to 10.

[sreservoir]

Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell is an easy way to get to 10.

heighten itself has a 9 limit.

[Siosilvar]

heighten itself has a 9 limit.

Versatile Spellcaster: 2 9ths = 1 10th.

At least I think that's the logic.

[dextercorvia]

Versatile Spellcaster: 2 9ths = 1 10th.

At least I think that's the logic.

Except you don't actually know any 10th level spells. Heighten is the usual way around this, but as was said, Heighten won't take a spell above 9th level.

Without Sanctum, if you want to be a chameleon under any DM (not all except Illumians as Human enough for that purpose), you are stuck with Earth Spell. Honestly, I'd go with Sanctum.

The only other option I can think of is Polymorph cheese, to a True Dragon, so that you can just take Improved Spell Capacity.

[libermortis]

a chamilion can max cast 6th level spell, and extra spell slot only gives max one spell level lower than your max 5th so u cant get 9th that way.

[dextercorvia]

a chamilion can max cast 6th level spell, and extra spell slot only gives max one spell level lower than your max 5th so u cant get 9th that way.

Oh, but you can...

[Curmudgeon]

There's just one way I know of:
Benefit: As Heighten Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell), but there is no limit to the level to which you can heighten the spell.

[libermortis]

Oh, but you can...

pls explain how.

[dextercorvia]

pls explain how.

Usually through Heighten spell combined with alternative metamagic costs, or Talfirian Song (if your Chameleon has a Bard base). The problem is that neither will let you raise a spell's effective level above 9th. That is where things like Earth Spell (expressly allows heightening to 10th) or Sanctum spell (has no level limit) come into play. For example, suppose your build was Bard5/Chameleon10, and you have Talfirian song. Talfirian song lets you raise the effective level of an illusion spell up to 9th by paying bardic music uses. If you have a sixth level illusion spell prepared with Sanctum spell, you can cast a 10th level spell (provided you have 3 bardic music uses remaining. If you level in your sanctum, and take Extra Slot, it checks to see what the highest level spell you can cast is (10th), and then gives you a slot one lower.

The highest level spell you can cast thing isn't even a prereq. for the feat, so you don't have to worry about losing the benefit, or anything.

[tuesdayscoming]

It's really a brilliant little trick that turns the Chameleon into a remarkably potent (and still tremendously versatile) spellcaster. The issues, of course, are that it's WILDLY feat intensive, and that even so many dms will not let you pull such shenanigans. I think that given the required investment, though, it's not unreasonable to let this work.

•slaps forehead• I hadn't even thought about using the floating feat for Sanctum. Makes me feel a lot better about using it. My question now is what would be the best base to slap this on? Assuming that we're using Talfirian Song, we need 3 levels of bard to jump straight from 6 to 9. though I suppose that even 1 level would do in a pinch. We'd just have to get 7th, 8th, and THEN 9th rather than jumping straight up.

A level of spellthief would be nice for master spellthief and the CL abuse it allows. A level of Duskblade could work nicely for Arcane Channeling, too... Any other ideas?

[dextercorvia]

You need 3 levels of Duskblade for channeling. I suggested Bard4/Spellthief1 in the other thread, since you need 2nd level spells (not from Chameleon) to qualify for Master Spellthief.

[tuesdayscoming]

You need 3 levels of Duskblade for channeling. I suggested Bard4/Spellthief1 in the other thread, since you need 2nd level spells (not from Chameleon) to qualify for Master Spellthief.

Ooh, quite right. Well Id say your suggestion is a pretty solid way in, then! Thanks much, sir!

As for the final 5 levels, then. You'd also mentioned Sublime Chord as a possible PrC, but what would we really get from it? The CL is already going to be ridiculously high, so I feel we might be better served going elsewhere. 1 level of Sacred Exorcist, for instance, would net us Turn Undead, which we could use to fuel any number of lovely tricks we pick up ith our floating feat.

Any other ideas for what to dip into for the last 5? The more tricks we can stack on this guy the better!

[dextercorvia]

Sublime Chord is getting you extra 4th-7th level spells -- never a bad thing. You really only need one level of that. You can use Sacred Exorcist to advance Sublime Chord if you wish. That route will get you full CL40.

The more I think about it, the more I think you want Wonderworker from BoED. You meet the prereq's from Bard+Talfirian. You can apply the bonus slots to Chameleon. (Treat it like a Divine Spellcasting Class) That will give you 3 bonus 9th level spell slots and 4 bonus 8th level spell slots. In addition, you have spell slots granted by a class ability now, so you get bonus spells for high ability for those. It is probably worth letting one of those 8th levels be a 7th level for this reason. Now you can take 2 levels of Dragon Disciple for another 2 ninth level spells. Spells/day before high ability will be (assuming one Extra Slot for 9th):

4/4/4/4/4/3/1/1/3/6

The downside is that your CL is a meager 30.

[dextercorvia]

Sorry to double post. I was in a hurry on the last one and made a mistake. With Talfirian+Sanctum, you get 3 10 level slots from Wonderworker, and 4 9th level slots. There is no reason to take 7th or 8th level slots. Since you can cast that level spells in 9th or 10th level slots from a class ability, you will still get bonus slots from high Int. This also means your Dragon Disciple slots are 10th level. Your slot layout will be (again without high Int, and this time without Extra Slot -- you could still take it if you want to).

4/4/4/4/4/3/1/0/0/4/5