Mounts and other PCs

[Pard]

Can I use another PC as a mount? I have a PC that is tiny and I am also playing a PC (in the same game) that is large. They are basically going to be chilling together anyways. Is it possible to mount another PC with RAW or is that something the DM would have to rule on?

[LOTRfan]

There are rules for strapping a goblin on an Ogre's back to be used as a tailgunner in A&EG. I guess you could do something similar.

[Thurbane]

This is one of those question that crops up with amazing regularity (once every other month), but the rules do not seem to provide a clear and definitive answer for.

Basically, IIRC, you cannot use the Ride skill on an intelligent mount. That doesn't mean you can't ride around on the, though.

[Ravens_cry]

f you attempt to ride (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/ride.htm) a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a -5 penalty on your Ride checks.
So yeah, that sums it up. You take a penalty, but as long as you meet the other requirements, a mount must be at least one size larger then the rider, sure, why not.

[teslas]

Go go Master Blaster.


Basically, IIRC, you cannot use the Ride skill on an intelligent mount. That doesn't mean you can't ride around on the, though.

You do not recall correctly. The problem with intelligent mounts is their willingness to let you ride them using Ride checks (it's fairly demeaning I'd imagine). If the player is playing both PC's, then that is no longer a problem.

Ravens_cry is quite correct in citing the SRD about the -5 penalty to Ride checks, though whether or not a mount is "ill-suited" is completely up to the DM. Keep in mind you may also require an exotic saddle. It seems as if 75% of the people on this forum play in crazy-ass "non-standard" campaigns so there's no telling what your two PC's are.

You always share initiative with your mount in combat. This can be a good thing or a horrible thing if your mount is another PC. Think about that.

In general, a usual DM would not allow such tom-foolery, but it is entirely within the bounds of the game. Mounted Combat is especially simply silly in the situation.

Other things you could do:
-Assist your mount's AC with the aid another action. Coupled with Mounted Combat this is pretty good.
-Assist your mount's attack roll with the aid another action.
-When your mount charges a foe, you can both make an attack and are both counted as taking the charge action.
-Enter grapples with your mount to increase the grapple-logic so that your DM doesn't try to grapple either one of you ever again.
-You're able to take standard actions you would not normally be able to take while moving, just like you can with a standard mount. The PC you're riding can make a full-round action while you can take a potion out of your pack and drink it as a Move + Standard action, all the while covering whatever distance. You can go on total defense while your second PC takes a double move or Withdraw action.
-You are treated as occupying all of the same squares as your mount for squares you threaten, meaning using something like the Spiked Chain or a less lame-ass reach weapon is akin to a second-class Enlarge Person to increase your threatened area, but without the penalties to DEX (attacks of opportunity) and AC.

[sreservoir]

as an interesting note, if you have a source of at-will healing, you can make the other character move 10' faster per round for a number of rounds for a number of rounds equal to the base-2 logarithm of your healing capacity, probably plus one, at a time. all you have to do is pass a DC 15 ride check. even with an ill-suited mount (-5), if you get an exotic military saddle (+2), max in-class ranks (4), and take 10, you can do this at level 1.

now, at-will healing that'll get you to full, that's a bit harder to do.

[teslas]

... or you could just get an enhancement bonus to speed set of horseshoes or other appropriate gear and not keep your mount injured, have to worry about when you can and cannot take 10 on Ride checks, or deal with stupid cheese to get at-will healing.

[Thurbane]

You do not recall correctly. The problem with intelligent mounts is their willingness to let you ride them using Ride checks (it's fairly demeaning I'd imagine).
Hmm, I thought it said somewhere specifically that you needed to use Diplomacy or similar instead of Ride.

If the player is playing both PC's, then that is no longer a problem.
That makes sense, I guess...

[Psionic Dog]

Them Wizards published a series of articles on mounted combat, including all of 8 lines clarifying PCs and intelligent mounts, that can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050222a).

In that case the rider is but a passenger. He/she doesn't need to make ride checks to stay on or act, but can't use ride to impose direction (that requires Diplomacy checks if its an NPC, possibly real life social skills if a fellow player). The rider passenger seems to also use their own initiative modifier, but with enough delaying/readying coordination is possible, and DM willing the two could probably act on the same initiative count.

So pretty much what Teslas said, but sharing initiative isn't a guarantee when both are acting on their own free will.

[dob]

Riders can spur their mounts to give them a +10 to their speed. Some mount characters might find that useful.

Riders with the Saddleback feat can use their ride check once per round in place of a reflex save for both rider and mount. Skills can scale linearly with level; saving throws do not. Not a bad proposition for a big stupid fighter.

[teslas]

So pretty much what Teslas said, but sharing initiative isn't a guarantee when both are acting on their own free will.

There is gray area here. Is it still an intelligent NPC if it's had its intelligence damaged to below 3? What of the Paladin special mount that ends up having 9 intelligence, but you still use the Ride skill for all applicable checks. Draconic mounts as described can have Mounted Combat applied to them which can only be a Ride check. Even intelligent mounts still require the use of the Handle Animal skill to train them further. Additionally, it does not actually state anywhere in the DMG that you must use Diplomacy instead of Ride when riding the mount.

Those points aside, which are somewhat open to interpretation, the article on the WotC also has actual contradictions. IE: the online article states that anything that has higher than an int of 3 is intelligent, while the DMG (page 205 under "Intelligent Mounts") clearly states anything over 5 int counts as intelligent.

I think these articles were a glossing over and smoothing out of a lot of rules as per one man's opinion. There is more than just this one divergence between previous RAW and what's in those articles. I would suggest using the online articles as a RAI guideline, not infallible law.

That being said those articles are very good, and I've read them often.