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Dr.Epic
2011-03-13, 06:42 PM
Basically, do you ever play a game of D&D (or really and RPG) and you throw in a pop culture reference and nobody else gets it? I usually do this because I take roleplaying about as seriously as Adventure Time. Like my last session my PCs had to kill an empress who turned out to be a little girl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Childlike_Empress#The_Childlike_Empress) (Hopefully they're get the reference with the giant earth elemental with "Big, good, strong hands.") And later they had to kill a bunch of high priestesses and during my turn when I was looking up spells I would mumble "What kind of magic spell to use?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxoE2az9mJM)

Axinian
2011-03-13, 07:54 PM
Yeah it's annoying when that happens. Really the best way to avoid this is to find out what your players are into before hand, then make references specifically made to get a laugh out of them.

For example, talking with my players revealed their like for Highlander, so I made Highlander jokes more than others (I almost called my campaign Pathfinder 2: the Quickening).

Morph Bark
2011-03-13, 08:08 PM
To be honest, I've read The Neverending Story, and when you mentioned an empress turning out to be a little girl, I thought you meant Padme Amidala. A reference can always fall oddly, even if your players have read/watched what you mean to reference. (Plus, that one wasn't really a strong reference. Your references are probably too subtle.)

herrhauptmann
2011-03-13, 08:09 PM
Well the out of turn mumbling just sounds like you talking to yourself, so they were probably less observant of that.

For the other one, well one of hte things I always remember out of that is "To the winch wench!" So aside from the Empress being a child dressed in white (perhaps with golden eyes), what else did you throw in there to say that it was her? Because the whole "Childlike empress" is a single line out of a very long movie (never even seen a copy of the book, so I can't comment on that) which I bet most of your players haven't seen in over 10 years.

OracleofWuffing
2011-03-13, 08:10 PM
Wait, what? People are supposed to understand the references?

:smallannoyed: Last time I talk about the dragon that got turned into a painting.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-13, 08:39 PM
Yeah it's annoying when that happens. Really the best way to avoid this is to find out what your players are into before hand, then make references specifically made to get a laugh out of them.

For example, talking with my players revealed their like for Highlander, so I made Highlander jokes more than others (I almost called my campaign Pathfinder 2: the Quickening).

They did get one reference a few weeks ago. They were in a dungeon and I said they got the map (arms up). (http://www.vgmusic.com/music/console/nintendo/n64/zoot_item.mid) Then they just had to get the master key.:smallbiggrin:


To be honest, I've read The Neverending Story, and when you mentioned an empress turning out to be a little girl, I thought you meant Padme Amidala. A reference can always fall oddly, even if your players have read/watched what you mean to reference. (Plus, that one wasn't really a strong reference. Your references are probably too subtle.)

I said she was "a childlike empress." That's a direct quote.

Jack Zander
2011-03-13, 08:55 PM
I said she was "a childlike empress." That's a direct quote.

It may be a direct quote, but its still not a very strong or memorable one. Maybe if you had a character that was riding a white furred dragon or you mentioned something about two married gnomes and a treant the reference would have been a bit stronger.

sonofzeal
2011-03-13, 08:58 PM
Hopefully they're get the reference with the giant earth elemental with "Big, good, strong hands."
Man, that scene always makes me cry. Almost as heartbreaking as the one with Artax, in the swamp...

Dr.Epic
2011-03-13, 09:21 PM
Man, that scene always makes me cry. Almost as heartbreaking as the one with Artax, in the swamp...

Yeah, that scene like so much of the movie pulled at your heart strings. Though I think the saddest thing with the movie is what happened to the characters in the third film. What did they do to you Rockbiter? You were one of my favorite characters. Also, if the PCs ever enter a swamp I'm thinking of having a tombstone that reads "Artax".

valadil
2011-03-13, 09:34 PM
Some people just aren't into references. They don't really do anything for me so I disregard them even if I do pick up on the reference. Trying harder is just going to frustrate them and disappoint you.

Jack Zander
2011-03-13, 09:38 PM
Some people just aren't into references. They don't really do anything for me so I disregard them even if I do pick up on the reference. Trying harder is just going to frustrate them and disappoint you.

On the other hand, if you throw all that at your players and they still don't understand the reference, you now have an entire plot for a campaign done for you, and they'll think it was your original idea!

Dr.Epic
2011-03-13, 09:44 PM
On the other hand, if you throw all that at your players and they still don't understand the reference, you now have an entire plot for a campaign done for you, and they'll think it was your original idea!

The evil empire built a giant hurt ball that can completely destroy a planet and the evil Garth Vader is the father of the main fighter of the group. Completely original.

Jack Zander
2011-03-13, 09:49 PM
The evil empire built a giant hurt ball that can completely destroy a planet and the evil Garth Vader is the father of the main fighter of the group. Completely original.


And if all of your players have been living under a rock for the past 40 years, it is totally original to them! Don't even bother changing the names. Allow them to experience the greatness of the Star Wars trilogy firsthand!

Starscream
2011-03-13, 09:56 PM
Happens to me all the time, but it's my own damn fault because I love obscure references and mostly include them solely to amuse myself.

For instance, in my current campaign I have had:

* A villain based on Dr. Insano from the Spoony Experiment.
* A monk inspired by Goemon from Lupin III (and I even made an attempt at translating his catchphrase into something more appropriate even though I don't speak Japanese: "matta tsumaranaimono panchi shimatta").
* An NPC based on a supporting character from Discworld.
* Another villain based on a one-shot character from Blackadder (and although he hasn't appeared yet, the local king is basically Brian Blessed).
* Given my players the choice of one of the magic items from the old D&D cartoon (they wisely chose Presto's hat).
* The entire overarching plot is very loosely inspired by a Doctor Who story.

Yeah, I'm pathetically nerdy even by D&D player standards. Pity me.

Starbuck_II
2011-03-13, 09:58 PM
Yeah, that scene like so much of the movie pulled at your heart strings. Though I think the saddest thing with the movie is what happened to the characters in the third film. What did they do to you Rockbiter? You were one of my favorite characters. Also, if the PCs ever enter a swamp I'm thinking of having a tombstone that reads "Artax".

Don't tell about third one I'm watching it tomorrow.

Starscream
2011-03-13, 10:05 PM
Don't tell about third one I'm watching it tomorrow.

Then it's not too late! You can still be spared!

Run. Run as fast and as far as you can from that movie. It will not only be bad, it may retroactively ruin the first one for you. for the sake of your childhood memories, RUN!

sonofzeal
2011-03-13, 10:17 PM
Don't tell about third one I'm watching it tomorrow.
Please. For the sake of all our childhoods, don't.

If you still feel the urge, read this instead (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article78.htm).

Starscream
2011-03-13, 10:19 PM
Please. For the sake of all our childhoods, don't.

If you still feel the urge, read this instead (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article78.htm).

Or watch this (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/29277-neverending-story-3). It's only 20 minutes long, and WAY less painful.

sonofzeal
2011-03-13, 10:48 PM
Or watch this (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/29277-neverending-story-3). It's only 20 minutes long, and WAY less painful.
Than watching the movie, yes. But it still exposes you to painfully high quantities of it. With the HeadInjuryTheatre review, at least you're only bearing witness to someone else's pain, not sharing it with them.

Zaydos
2011-03-13, 10:53 PM
I quoted the description of Cthulhu from The Call of Cthulhu and named the creature R'lyeh... They didn't get it.

They'd already met the Duke of Arkham without blinking.

My next group was better about references, but I only mainly put them up with Tolkien and Lovecraft because when I mentioned Arioch and Tzeentch it just got blank stares.

Narren
2011-03-13, 11:00 PM
I've grown up with all of my players and known most of them over 20 years. It's literally impossible for me to make a reference they won't get. They usually finish it before I'm even done.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-13, 11:20 PM
Or watch this (http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/29277-neverending-story-3). It's only 20 minutes long, and WAY less painful.

Yeah, I never saw it, but this is how I knew about it. Neverending Story III makes Neverending Story II look like Neverending Story I. I'll just say this much to let you know what you're in for:

Jack Black plays a high school bully that's the villain of the film. Yeap, you know how in the first film the antagonist was a vague meta-physical force that destroyed all stories and was original and interesting? Well this time the antagonist is the star of Kung Fu Panda...and he's supposed to be in high school.

Cartigan
2011-03-13, 11:35 PM
I've seen the Neverending Story a couple times and I still don't get "Empress turning into a little girl." Try more obvious gaming references like "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" or "Dead Ale Wives" or "Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle."

Xuincherguixe
2011-03-13, 11:42 PM
I tend not to worry about it myself. Though I also have a habit of making subtle jokes too. The smart players will pick up on them.

Pentachoron
2011-03-14, 12:14 AM
Jack Black plays a high school bully that's the villain of the film. Yeap, you know how in the first film the antagonist was a vague meta-physical force that destroyed all stories and was original and interesting? Well this time the antagonist is the star of Kung Fu Panda...and he's supposed to be in high school.

Now I HAVE to see it.

Silus
2011-03-14, 12:50 AM
Not getting pop culture references does not bother me all that much. makes my job a bit easier as a DM. It's when people are not genre savvy enough that it starts to irk me.

Horror campaign:
1. Directly quote at least two Creepypasta stories.
2. Take major elements almost directly from the movie/story 1408
3. Shadows oozing from the walls like in Fable 3.
4. The hallway with the blood oozing from the ceiling from F.E.A.R.
5. The Carcosa Codex and directly quoting from The King in Yellow.
6. Mentions of Arkham and the Miskatonic University.
7. Mention of Herbert West.

All but two people got these references (out of 5 people). Those that got most of the references (minus the hallway, the Pasta and the shadows) were rightly scared. The other two were all "....huh?" and "I READ THE FLOATING BOOK WITH THE YELLOW SIGN ON THE FRONT!"

Rankar
2011-03-14, 01:22 AM
I am far and away the most genre savvy of all my friends. Any time someone throws out a quote I either know it or have the movie/book/whatever on my list of things to become more savvy about.

If another GM throws out a reference, I might chuckle but I won't tell other people because it ruins the fun and means having to explain more than its worth because they still have a blank look on their faces.

Explaining stuff makes it less awesome. Its also a lot of fun to wake up later that night and have everything click together in your head "We were fighting Ironman and I didn't get it! Danget!"*





*This didn't actually happen to me, but it did happen to a player.

Eldan
2011-03-14, 05:08 AM
At least the second movie had still elements from the book, even if it got them totally wrong. You'd think an evil witch with an army of insectoid digging robots couldn't be that hard to get right, but they managed it.

On the subject of Neverending story references: the PCs once had to secure the poison of an insect swarm with a hive mind, because it was a vital ingredient in a special teleport spell that got around magical barriers and allowed transport for practically endless distances.

Oh, and the Rockbiter? Totally not an Earth elemental. Either a Galeb Dhur or an old man of the mountain.

And I probably wouldn't get your references either. It's my favourite book, but I had it in German. "Childlike" doesn't click with me, really.

sonofzeal
2011-03-14, 08:10 AM
A couple years ago, I was in a campaign trying to stop Yuan-Ti from reviving their dead god and conquering the world. We failed... meaning in the next campaign, there were Snakes on a [Material] Plane.



Now I HAVE to see it.
Don't. The Luck Dragon is downgraded from "mystical mentor" to "Scooby Do", the Rockbiter wears a wifebeater and rides around singing 60's rock, Bastian is played by the "Free Willie" kid, he never actually does anything in the course of the whole movie, there's not a single actor in common with the original, there's no continuity with the original, there's no connection with the book, they don't even use the awesome theme song, the plot doesn't make any sense even by the merit of kiddy fantasy movies, and Jack Black is the only guy in the entire movie who might actually be able to act... but his script is still as bad as everyone else's.

Cartigan
2011-03-14, 08:16 AM
Not getting pop culture references does not bother me all that much. makes my job a bit easier as a DM. It's when people are not genre savvy enough that it starts to irk me.

Horror campaign:
1. Directly quote at least two Creepypasta stories.
I think I have heard of creepypasta before...


2. Take major elements almost directly from the movie/story 1408
Never heard of it.


3. Shadows oozing from the walls like in Fable 3.
Never played it.


4. The hallway with the blood oozing from the ceiling from F.E.A.R.Never played it.


5. The Carcosa Codex and directly quoting from The King in Yellow.
Heard of it, never read it.


6. Mentions of Arkham and the Miskatonic University.
These are related to the Lovecraft universe, right?


7. Mention of Herbert West.
Who?


I would have gotten zero of these references and STILL would have read/touched/set fire to the Yellow Book. Horror game or not. Your references require playing specific sets of game and reading specific books and comics and then you get mad that not everyone has done all of that for those specific things?

Kuma Kode
2011-03-14, 08:54 AM
I quoted the description of Cthulhu from The Call of Cthulhu and named the creature R'lyeh... They didn't get it.

They'd already met the Duke of Arkham without blinking.

My next group was better about references, but I only mainly put them up with Tolkien and Lovecraft because when I mentioned Arioch and Tzeentch it just got blank stares.

Yup. Zombie game set in Arkham, Massachusetts. Two of the characters go to Miskatonic University. A primary NPC is Officer Legrasse. My players miss so much.......

Starbuck_II
2011-03-14, 09:05 AM
Yeah, I never saw it, but this is how I knew about it. Neverending Story III makes Neverending Story II look like Neverending Story I. I'll just say this much to let you know what you're in for:

Jack Black plays a high school bully that's the villain of the film. Yeap, you know how in the first film the antagonist was a vague meta-physical force that destroyed all stories and was original and interesting? Well this time the antagonist is the star of Kung Fu Panda...and he's supposed to be in high school.

To be fair, they shine a lamplight on that. Remember this movie is 14 years old.

They mention he repeated the 12th grade a few times (so he should be in his 20's).

Shademan
2011-03-14, 09:44 AM
I love it when i make a passing joke or present something deadly serious and one player goes "heh, nice reference" and i just give a sly grin back
cus I got NO idea what theyre talking about, but hey...
:smallcool:

Dr.Epic
2011-03-15, 05:25 PM
In my next session my players will meet an investigator named Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a scholar/sailor named Robert Louis Stephenson, a cleric who specializes in killing vampires named Abraham "Bram" Stoker, and a druid named Henry David Thoreau.

Also, they meet a clan of Warriors who want build a spaceship and load it with the fuel and scream madness! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74HP7EPywXY)

Silus
2011-03-15, 05:38 PM
I think I have heard of creepypasta before...


Never heard of it.


Never played it.

Never played it.


Heard of it, never read it.


These are related to the Lovecraft universe, right?


Who?


I would have gotten zero of these references and STILL would have read/touched/set fire to the Yellow Book. Horror game or not. Your references require playing specific sets of game and reading specific books and comics and then you get mad that not everyone has done all of that for those specific things?

Well after going through a quasi-sentiant house that does not play fair AT ALL (The house duplicated one of the character's dying children, and had them die in their arms before turning to ash), you kinda learn not to touch anything evil and/or hinky looking. Especially a large floating yellow book with a symbol on the cover that makes your head hurt to look at it.

herrhauptmann
2011-03-15, 09:35 PM
In my next session my players will meet an investigator named Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, a scholar/sailor named Robert Louis Stephenson, a cleric who specializes in killing vampires named Abraham "Bram" Stoker, and a druid named Henry David Thoreau.

Also, they meet a clan of Warriors who want build a spaceship and load it with the fuel and scream madness! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74HP7EPywXY)
Even if they all make sense, you throw in too many references at once. They're either too subtle, too minor, or you're beating your players over the heads with them. Seriously, a WWF line from how long ago? If your players aren't into wrassling, there's no way they'll get it, and you'll be here again complaining about your players not getting it.

Is your next session going to be about a bunch of Maguffin books?
Instead of using Abe Stoker, how about you use the first part of Dr Helsings name? The man has a first name and I think two middle names in addition Van Helsing for his last name. Make sure he does a lot more than just hunt vampires too. Like the real Helsing who seemed to have Vampire Slaying as just one of many certificates on his wall.

CN the Logos
2011-03-15, 09:49 PM
See, the problem with putting references to other works in your RPGs is that we're all (with a very few exceptions, you can be one if it makes you feel better) nerds here, and most of the nerds I've encountered are very, very into things the majority of other people don't know/care about. "The majority of people," in this case, including other nerds who aren't interested in that specific thing either. So while pretty much everyone recognizes the Black Knight and Dread Rabbit (because that movie is just well known in general), you can make all the references to Samurai Dragon Ghostbusters you like, and my response will be "Bahn-what? Is that like a Japanese superhighway or something?"

Of course, when you're in a group for a while, eventually you'll learn about things from them and vice versa and you'll start getting each other's jokes. Doesn't mean that they've suddenly become psychic and will recognize every obscure source you mine for ideas.

Also:


Not getting pop culture references does not bother me all that much. makes my job a bit easier as a DM. It's when people are not genre savvy enough that it starts to irk me.

Horror campaign:
1. Directly quote at least two Creepypasta stories.
2. Take major elements almost directly from the movie/story 1408
3. Shadows oozing from the walls like in Fable 3.
4. The hallway with the blood oozing from the ceiling from F.E.A.R.
5. The Carcosa Codex and directly quoting from The King in Yellow.
6. Mentions of Arkham and the Miskatonic University.
7. Mention of Herbert West.

All but two people got these references (out of 5 people). Those that got most of the references (minus the hallway, the Pasta and the shadows) were rightly scared. The other two were all "....huh?" and "I READ THE FLOATING BOOK WITH THE YELLOW SIGN ON THE FRONT!"

You're lucky it wasn't me there. I've actually read the original short stories, you see, and right now I can't decide whether I would have made and intentionally failed a Will save against dominate person (what the sign is actually supposed to do, according to The Repairer of Reputation's brain-damaged narrator), or just told you OOC that there was nothing in the stories to suggest The King in Yellow was supernaturally inspired at all, rather than just the work of a mentally ill man who killed himself (or at least tried to) after writing it. Also, according to what we do know of the play's contents, Hastur, Hastur, Hastur was more likely a place than a being, and there was nothing suggesting it must not be named.

Probably would have broken the flow of gameplay either way, but would have been worth it. Things that are obviously references but without meaning to me are annoying, but not nearly as annoying as references I recognize as being wrong (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeamMeUpScotty).

I wouldn't have gotten 1, 3, or 4 because of the problem mentioned in the first part of my post. Probably wouldn't have recognized 2 either; while the story is well written, the actual idea of a haunted place is pretty generic and unless you'd repeatedly emphasized the fact that it was a genius loci rather than a ghost or demon, it wouldn't have clicked.

Cartigan
2011-03-15, 10:03 PM
Probably would have broken the flow of gameplay either way, but would have been worth it. Things that are obviously references but without meaning to me are annoying, but not nearly as annoying as references I recognize as being wrong (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeamMeUpScotty).

Elementary, my dear Watson.

Eldan
2011-03-16, 03:55 AM
Yup.

I dislike references in most cases, really. If I don't get them, they do nothing, which often happens with obscure ones. I don't watch much American TV, and I have never read any superhero comics, to give a few examples.

On the other hand, references I do get? They rarely, if ever, make the game any better. I mean, why does it improve the game if there's an NPC called Bram Stoker? To me, it just either means the DM couldn't come up with a name on his own or wants to make absolutely sure that "wink, wink, this is like Dracula, isn't it, wink, wink, people liked that story".

And then there are terribly generic references. Shadows oozing from the wall? I'd probably assume it was Planescape Torment. Or any of about a dozen other games.

BiblioRook
2011-03-16, 04:21 AM
Some people just aren't into references. They don't really do anything for me so I disregard them even if I do pick up on the reference. Trying harder is just going to frustrate them and disappoint you.

My last campaign the DM basically tried to make it a never ending stream of non-subtle cameos.

This included
* Jeeves the Butler as our primary quest-giver
* having to deal with Jar Jar Binks (as a library clerk of all things)
* About as many obscure and not-so-obscure gods from real-world mythology, explicitly stated to be from earth (even the ones that exist in the world of D&D)
* And to top it off? Our villain? Banjo the Clown God.

Granted, it was never supposed to be a completely serious campaign, but we were having issues with this DM putting more empathis on NPCs that didn't even tie into the plot then us as players, so most of the time we were less then amused when he would try dropping another inappropriately timed geek reference on us. :smallannoyed:

It didn't help that he saw these things basically as the selling point of his campaign, so when we were starting not to enjoy it his solution was to add even more jokes and references into the game 9_9
(And yes, we did try to point this out to him, but he didn't seem to get it).

Axinian
2011-03-16, 06:30 AM
Also, they meet a clan of Warriors who want build a spaceship and load it with the fuel and scream madness! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74HP7EPywXY)
Their battle cry? *SKROOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNK!*

Morph Bark
2011-03-16, 07:27 AM
If you put references into your game, the best idea is to pick references you know at least one player will get and will make them smile or get an otherwise desired effect. References to previous games with the same group/players for one work well.

DeadManSleeping
2011-03-16, 08:58 AM
Allusions are fun, but honestly, if a part of your game requires people to 'get' them to be effective, you're doing it wrong. If the scene is effective with or without the allusion, then it's a good time to put it in. And in that case, it doesn't really matter if people get it or not.

Dr.Epic
2011-03-16, 03:07 PM
Even if they all make sense, you throw in too many references at once. They're either too subtle, too minor, or you're beating your players over the heads with them. Seriously, a WWF line from how long ago? If your players aren't into wrassling, there's no way they'll get it, and you'll be here again complaining about your players not getting it.

The players don't have to get the reference. I just think the wrestler is so over the top and stupid it'd be fun to RP him. The spaceship with the rocket fuel! Have you seen his comic?

BiblioRook
2011-03-17, 07:38 PM
All I can truly suggest when it comes to references is to treat them as bonus material... nothing more. If your players pick up on them then it gets to be a nice extra bit for their amusement, but if they don't, just move on. Just don't try to drag it out just to try to draw their attention to it unless you actually have reason to, expesially if it's just a side thing and isn't important to the game itself (though if you are running a game that's dependent on your players recognizing a reference you are making to something outside the game you are already doing something wrong.)
As it is, that's actually one of my issues with references anyways, they basically are invitation for some degree of metagaming.

Or contrary, just put the references in just for your own amusement. That way it doesn't matter if your players pick up on them or not.

TheFallenOne
2011-03-17, 09:06 PM
my players recently found the Sword of Ogre Decapitation. Reaction wasn't as I hoped. In my other group everyone knows the The Gamers movies, but when this happened the one who knew them wasn't present, and another one who saw the first movie years ago didn't get the reference.

Well, they still sold the sword for good money and enjoyed the movies when watching them sometime later.
They also found Garatons Arrowcurse, a +1 breastplate that attracts projectiles fired at targets within 20 feet. It's no curse actually, but deliberate on Garatons part, who was rather tough and protected his companions this way. Too bad about the Battle of the Darkened Sky against a brigade of Elven archers...
Anyway, if they'd examine the plate closer they'll notice a B.S. Johnson engraving by the maker, which I expect they'll understand. They'll also run into a variation of C.M.O.T. Dibbler soon enough

Pentachoron
2011-03-18, 10:02 AM
Don't. The Luck Dragon is downgraded from "mystical mentor" to "Scooby Do", the Rockbiter wears a wifebeater and rides around singing 60's rock, Bastian is played by the "Free Willie" kid, he never actually does anything in the course of the whole movie, there's not a single actor in common with the original, there's no continuity with the original, there's no connection with the book, they don't even use the awesome theme song, the plot doesn't make any sense even by the merit of kiddy fantasy movies, and Jack Black is the only guy in the entire movie who might actually be able to act... but his script is still as bad as everyone else's.

I understand that you're dissuading me from watching this movie. I need you to understand you're making this sound hilarious.

Cartigan
2011-03-18, 10:25 AM
I understand that you're dissuading me from watching this movie. I need you to understand you're making this sound hilarious.

The stupid bully scenes are the good parts of the movie.

Pentachoron
2011-03-18, 10:48 AM
The stupid bully scenes are the good parts of the movie.

I just hope I can find it on Netflix

Lyra Reynolds
2011-03-18, 12:28 PM
All I can truly suggest when it comes to references is to treat them as bonus material... nothing more. If your players pick up on them then it gets to be a nice extra bit for their amusement, but if they don't, just move on. Just don't try to drag it out just to try to draw their attention to it unless you actually have reason to, expesially if it's just a side thing and isn't important to the game itself (though if you are running a game that's dependent on your players recognizing a reference you are making to something outside the game you are already doing something wrong.)
As it is, that's actually one of my issues with references anyways, they basically are invitation for some degree of metagaming.

Or contrary, just put the references in just for your own amusement. That way it doesn't matter if your players pick up on them or not.

Yeah, this. I put in quite a number of references, but never in a way that the plot hinges on them (in fact, I try my very best not to do that because it'll make the plot more unexpected). For example, I'm currently running an Asian-style campaign, and the party just spotted a cabbage merchant in the market place. Just a random merchant, some colour locale - but those who'd seen Avatar: The Last Airbender (which was everybody :p) shouted "nooo!! MY CABBAGES!!"
I have a loooot of fun with names. They attended an opera by Joseph Green (aka Giuseppe Verdi) and during the 'Egyptian'/Indiana Jones style campaign one helpful NPC was called Sallah. (Also, in-game there's a bookseries about a Adventurer Archeologist called Virginia Brown - first name an American state, last name a very common English name, just like Indiana Jones.)
And I like to throw in references to PCs backstories, sidequests or previous sessions. But again, they are minor enough that nobody HAS to get them to enjoy the game or to solve the quest. That's in a way metagaming: you don't want players to use out of game information to solve the puzzle, so you shouldn't expect them to get an out of game reference to solve it!

JohnnyCancer
2011-03-18, 01:34 PM
I was in a group playing Pathfinder's Curse of the Crimson Throne when we encountered a priestess of Zon-Kuthon. Our religion check enabled us to learn that her god is basically a nihilistic, Hellraiser Cenobite wannabe. At that point I said "Say what you will about the tenants of Chelaxian Diabolism, at least its an ethos!"

Only half the group got my paraphrasing from The Big Lebowski.

Pisha
2011-03-18, 02:25 PM
All I can truly suggest when it comes to references is to treat them as bonus material... nothing more. If your players pick up on them then it gets to be a nice extra bit for their amusement, but if they don't, just move on. Just don't try to drag it out just to try to draw their attention to it unless you actually have reason to, expesially if it's just a side thing and isn't important to the game itself (though if you are running a game that's dependent on your players recognizing a reference you are making to something outside the game you are already doing something wrong.)
As it is, that's actually one of my issues with references anyways, they basically are invitation for some degree of metagaming.

Or contrary, just put the references in just for your own amusement. That way it doesn't matter if your players pick up on them or not.


You took the words right out of my mouth. (No, literally. Your first sentence is word-for-word what I was planning to say, and frankly it's a little frightening.)

In both my old and my new gaming group, it became sort of a game - the trick was not to get other people to get your references, the trick was to see how many sly side comments, references, puns, etc. you could sneak into the game with a straight face before someone caught you. (One of our players is a goddess at this game. She's this very sweet woman who looks like everyone's mother and has a very soft, quiet voice. I'd been playing with her for several months before I started actually listening to the quiet asides she would occasionally murmur to herself, and when I did I almost fell off my chair from laughing so hard.)

herrhauptmann
2011-03-18, 02:29 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth. (No, literally. Your first sentence is word-for-word what I was planning to say, and frankly it's a little frightening.)

In both my old and my new gaming group, it became sort of a game - the trick was not to get other people to get your references, the trick was to see how many sly side comments, references, puns, etc. you could sneak into the game with a straight face before someone caught you. (One of our players is a goddess at this game. She's this very sweet woman who looks like everyone's mother and has a very soft, quiet voice. I'd been playing with her for several months before I started actually listening to the quiet asides she would occasionally murmur to herself, and when I did I almost fell off my chair from laughing so hard.)

I dunno about you, but when I make those quiet comments, the rule of three seems to apply. The first two times, people hear it, but don't really react one way or the other. The third time, they're falling out of their chairs laughing.

The Random NPC
2011-03-18, 09:47 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth. (No, literally. Your first sentence is word-for-word what I was planning to say, and frankly it's a little frightening.)

In both my old and my new gaming group, it became sort of a game - the trick was not to get other people to get your references, the trick was to see how many sly side comments, references, puns, etc. you could sneak into the game with a straight face before someone caught you. (One of our players is a goddess at this game. She's this very sweet woman who looks like everyone's mother and has a very soft, quiet voice. I'd been playing with her for several months before I started actually listening to the quiet asides she would occasionally murmur to herself, and when I did I almost fell off my chair from laughing so hard.)

My friends and I love to do that. Once we quoted most of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air theme song without anyone getting it.

Shinigaze
2011-03-18, 10:13 PM
My friends and I love to do that. Once we quoted most of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air theme song without anyone getting it.

Don't I know you? I feel like I should, I remember that story and your name seems familiar.

Xanmyral
2011-03-18, 11:46 PM
References are all good and fine, but they seem a bit more trouble than they are worth. Personally, I don't watch a lot of television, don't watch movies that often, but I do play video games and read every so often. Hell, I finally got around to watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail three months back, and I'm a junior in high school. Most of the references posted in this thread went straight over my head. :smallsigh:

All I can recommend with references has already been said, tailor your references to your group and so such. If some of them don't get it, after the game recommend them to watch, read, or play what you referenced. Don't judge people for not sharing your interests also, it's just rude most of the time.

Hazzardevil
2011-03-19, 08:19 AM
References are all good and fine, but they seem a bit more trouble than they are worth. Personally, I don't watch a lot of television, don't watch movies that often, but I do play video games and read every so often. Hell, I finally got around to watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail three months back, and I'm a junior in high school. Most of the references posted in this thread went straight over my head. :smallsigh:

All I can recommend with references has already been said, tailor your references to your group and so such. If some of them don't get it, after the game recommend them to watch, read, or play what you referenced. Don't judge people for not sharing your interests also, it's just rude most of the time.

I agree with what you say here, except I'm in Senior school.
I was playing a game of dnd and ran out of arrows when fighting kobolds.
I was a cleric and then said "More Dakka!"
Amazingly neither of them got it despite being avid warhammer fans.
I then quoted a Monty Python film after we were nailed to a cross and started singing bright side of life.
I've been meaning to read hp.lovecraft for a while to find out about it. Problem is my school library wouldn't stock it or throw it out after 1 person read it and I'm unsure if it's on kindle.

Kuma Kode
2011-03-19, 09:00 AM
I've been meaning to read hp.lovecraft for a while to find out about it. Problem is my school library wouldn't stock it or throw it out after 1 person read it and I'm unsure if it's on kindle.

Most of his works can be found online. I'm not a huge fan of the vampire aesthetic, but this website (http://dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/index.html) has a bunch of them. Online libraries might have others.

Cartigan
2011-03-19, 09:07 AM
That is a terrible and ugly website, but it makes the point that almost everything in the Cthulhu mythos is basically in the public domain.

Wikisource is nicer (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Howard_Phillips_Lovecraft)

I'm surprised Project Gutenberg only has like 2 books.

Jay R
2011-03-19, 10:53 AM
Elementary, my dear Watson.

This isn't a wrong reference. It's just not a reference to the books. It was a very common saying by Basil Rathbone playing Sherlock Holmes.

The Random NPC
2011-03-19, 10:58 AM
Don't I know you? I feel like I should, I remember that story and your name seems familiar.

Yes you know me, I'm your brother.

Jay R
2011-03-19, 11:05 AM
Basically, do you ever play a game of D&D (or really and RPG) and you throw in a pop culture reference and nobody else gets it?

This isn't a bug; it's a feature -- if you use it.

I was starting a Champions game of early Silver Age superheroes. They heard a report of a spaceship landing out of town, and monsters coming out. When the heroes got there, their flaming hero (Flamebird) flew overhead, and saw a rough, vaguely manlike creature with orange skin, who uprooted a tree and threw it at her. So they attacked. The aliens soon had their own flaming person. The hero with the dog saw a bunch of thin, plastic loops wrapped around something, but there was nothing inside. And he smelled two humans. Soon a long, thin plastic extension attacked Flamebird with a fire extinguisher. And there was a hand at the end of the extension.

The combat lasted for more than an hour before they discovered that they had blundered into the origin of the Fantastic Four.

CN the Logos
2011-03-19, 07:45 PM
Elementary, my dear Watson.This isn't a wrong reference. It's just not a reference to the books. It was a very common saying by Basil Rathbone playing Sherlock Holmes.

Also, it's not quite the same level of wrongness even if we only take the original stories into account. It's "the protagonist is slightly more condescending" versus "we will now shift genres from ambiguously supernatural psychodrama to pulp 'horror;' hope you weren't looking for something in line with the original stories." It still registers with the inner purist, but it's not as jarring. It helps that I'm not a big fan of Sherlock Holmes either.

Kuma Kode
2011-03-19, 09:04 PM
It's "the protagonist is slightly more condescending" versus "we will now shift genres from ambiguously supernatural psychodrama to pulp 'horror;' hope you weren't looking for something in line with the original stories." I don't think you see the forest for the trees; in the context of a Call of Cthulhu or other Lovecraft mythos inspired setting, the King in Yellow IS a supernaturally inspired story. The real-world version, according to the mythos, is "heavily edited." So regardless of what it really is or was, the setting is presenting it in an intentionally different manner.

I would hate to have a player grind the game to a halt to explain to me the particulars of a story that I have referenced and intentionally reinterpreted.