New OOTS Book: "Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales"

[The Giant]

Just a reminder/feedback thread to let you guys know to read the News article regarding the latest book, the new releases for the board game, and our plan to donate a portion of our profits to the Red Cross for each sale thereof. You can also click on the blue banner in my signature for more on the book.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have here.

[KingFlameHawk]

OK seriously that entire fourth edition dimension thing, that alone makes the book worth buying. Can't wait till May for it.:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Lira]

!!!

I'm so excited. I will definitely be getting this. In fact, my sister was going to order me a book as a late Christmas gift - I will send her an email immediately telling her to order me this one instead. I can't wait until the book is in my hands. :smallbiggrin:

[King of Nowhere]

I hope this is not the third prequel book promised years ago, but that there will be definitely another prequel book - since this is out of the continuity of the main comic and don't count as prequel.

[Porthos]

Ordered.

Twice, even. :smallwink:

[The Giant]

I hope this is not the third prequel book promised years ago, but that there will be definitely another prequel book - since this is out of the continuity of the main comic and don't count as prequel.

This is most certainly NOT the third prequel book. There is no prequel material in here. Well...maybe one of the mini-stories, but most of it is either Dragon-continuity or no-continuity.

[GalenDev]

Yup, I just pre-ordered. Definitely looking forward to it, and if May's the target, then it should arrive right around my birthday.

Rich, you do awesome work. Can't wait to see more!

[King of Nowhere]

Well, basically I wanted to know if we can still expect another prequel book in the future.

Not that it matters on the short time, since I'm going to preorder this anyway.

[Porthos]

Well, basically I wanted to know if we can still expect another prequel book in the future.

Sneaky poster. Tricksy poster. :smalltongue:

[jolus]

I can't believe I'm lucky enough to read this - ordered!

[RMS Oceanic]

This book got ordered so fast my Credit Card also melted. :smalltongue:

Also, I'm gonna visit the Japanese Red Cross now to give a little more...

EDIT: Actually the British Red Cross has a specialised Japanese Tsunami drive going on, it might be more prudent to give to that in my case.

[factotum]

Pre-ordered as soon as I got to the link at the end of the news post!

[talkamancer]

Day 1 of my birthday week off and a new OOTS book to order. Lucky me.

[Juggling Goth]

Awesome!

You're very good to us :D

[Thanatosia]

May has never felt so far away!

[Vargtass]

Oooohhhh, this looks good!

Ordered already, several copies for me and friends (although I am not sure I actually were able to save on the delivery that way). Especially Edition Wars holds excellent promise - isn't this part of what we all have been waiting for? And from the officiel source, no less!

Can't wait until May, curse the slow calendar!

[Phishfood]

Ordering that as soon as I get out from behind this insane firewall that is happy for me to spend my working hours on a comic site & forum but won't let me buy things.

[Fale]

I'm really trying to cut back my spending this year, but y'know, it's my favorite comic, so I can make an expection. Ordered!

[rakkoon]

I don't like to buy books of which I can read 90% online on this site.
I love buying books with new stuff in them.
Ordered and paid for :smallbiggrin:

[Katana_Geldar]

Going to order by the end of the week as I've asked if anyone in my gaming group wants one.

And I've been waiting for Rich to do more 4E jokes.

[Saph]

Pre-ordered also. Looking forward to it!

[Ancalagon]

Awesome!

I'm going to order it right away - that is after a quick question has been asked: As I order from Europe I usually try to combine two books for shipping.

So: Among the other things you wanted to announce, there are no more books? (I only order those). I know this somewhat ruins your surprise-schedule and suspense-arc and I'm also somewhat sorry for that. ;)

Unless you do not want to answer this, in which case I will simply wait a few more days before ordering.

A second question: the book is planned to be available from May 2011 - but how long is the pre-order phase going to be before you go to print? I'd like to be nice and order before that.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I want this, but the Ookoodook website is rejecting my APO Zip code. Please Help!

[The Giant]

So: Among the other things you wanted to announce, there are no more books? (I only order those). I know this somewhat ruins your surprise-schedule and suspense-arc and I'm also somewhat sorry for that. ;)

Unless you do not want to answer this, in which case I will simply wait a few more days before ordering.

No, nothing that's left to talk about is a product. Actually, the book and the board game expansion were originally intended to be two separate announcements spread a few days apart, but we decided that people would be pissed if they ordered one and then something else was announced 3 days later.


A second question: the book is planned to be available from May 2011 - but how long is the pre-order phase going to be before you go to print? I'd like to be nice and order before that.

The book won't be sent to the printer until the first week in April, in order to help us judge how many orders we're going to get. Based on previous books, we know that about 75% of all the order we're going to get will be in the first two weeks, and the other 25% will be over the next 3 months, so we'll extrapolate the print run number from what we get in March.

[The Giant]

I want this, but the Ookoodook website is rejecting my APO Zip code. Please Help!

I'll ask Kevin about it, I don't know about how any of it works. Maybe he can make it work, or knows a workaround.

[Ancalagon]

Preordered. 14.95$ shipping? I sure hope it comes in a box made of pure gold or something. Do you sign copies that get preordered today? ;)

[Katana_Geldar]

Hey, you try ordering something from ThinkGeek, their shipping is exhorbitent.

[TimelordSimone]

I can't help but wonder what number it is?
(4.5? A? I don't know!)

[Vargtass]

I can't help but wonder what number it is?
(4.5? A? I don't know!)

Can't help you there, but I did notice that the grey outline figure in the backdrop of the cover seems to be a heavily templated snail...

[Hardcore]

It just occured to me that print-on-demand would be the thing for Rich.
A very small games company I know of (starfleet games) bought their own Kyocera printers, and are, since a few years back, printing all their own rulebooks and supplements.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Can't help you there, but I did notice that the grey outline figure in the backdrop of the cover seems to be a heavily templated snail...

Heavily... Templated... Snail? I do believe we now know what the MitD is!!!

Nah, probably not!

[jmucchiello]

I can't help but wonder what number it is?
(4.5? A? I don't know!)

Can't be 4.5, it's not in continuity. I was think D for Dragon. A works, too.

[Hazelnut]

Disappointed that it will cost 50% the price of the book to have it sent to the UK and there's no alternative in this case. Usually I get my OOTS books from a shop in the UK.

I do love OOTS, so I'm tempted, but I would be more comfortable to see a few sample pages before buying considering the expense. Any chance of that?

[Shale]

Heavily... Templated... Snail? I do believe we now know what the MitD is!!!

Nah, probably not!

The Heavily Templated Snail is actually a character from the Dragon strips.

[LightsOnNo1Home]

Giant, you're a Legend.

That is all.

[turkishproverb]

Wow. This is great rich. ANd the charity component...

Yea, I'm ordering this tonight.


It just occured to me that print-on-demand would be the thing for Rich.
A very small games company I know of (starfleet games) bought their own Kyocera printers, and are, since a few years back, printing all their own rulebooks and supplements.
They're still in business?

[H Birchgrove]

Awesome, Rich! I'll order it ASAP! :smallbiggrin:

[JoseB]

Disappointed that it will cost 50% the price of the book to have it sent to the UK and there's no alternative in this case. Usually I get my OOTS books from a shop in the UK.

I do love OOTS, so I'm tempted, but I would be more comfortable to see a few sample pages before buying considering the expense. Any chance of that?

I doubt it. However, FWIW, I have had a chance to see a couple of the "Dragon" magazine strips and they were GOOD. My personal opinion is that they are worth the price of the book. Also, loads of extra material (and I trust Rich to provide first-class extra material!)

I ordered 3 copies to be sent to the Netherlands ASAP (one for me, two to give away to friends).

[Zordrath]

Wooo, new OOTS stuff :smallbiggrin: I've been wanting to see those Dragon strips for ages.

I'm not too thrilled about it being Ookoodook exclusive, though... I used to get my books from a German retailer to save myself the horrendous shipping cost. That doubles the price of the book for me...

[Gift Jeraff]

Yay, I never got to read these. Plus Edition Wars sounds awesome. :smallcool:

Thank you, Giant! :smallsmile:

[NerfTW]

I do love OOTS, so I'm tempted, but I would be more comfortable to see a few sample pages before buying considering the expense. Any chance of that?

There's 780 pages of samples on this site right now. What exactly would you need to see? :smallconfused:

[Ted The Bug]

One idea that's occurred to me was that he could do like a normal-length book with nothing but deleted/extra/bonus scenes. Sort of like a collection of loose ends. It wouldn't need a plot at all, but it might be nice to have just a few more glimpses of, say, Hinjo when he was younger, or Roy at a class at Bash U, or Haley's earlier escapades with the Thieves' Guild.
Saywhat? :smallamused:

Even though the title reminds me just a bit too much of a certain TV show, you can definitely count me in among the preorderers! Also, preorderer is a word now.
Oh, and since the product announcements have been merged, is there any more news to come? Looking forward to it if there is!

[ChrisFortyTwo]

I just ordered both the new book and the game expansion. Does this mean that they will be shipped together in June, or will they be shipped separately? I noticed that there was only one shipping price added.

Also, do you know if its USPS, UPS, or some other carrier? I'm moving between now and June, and although I can probably send a message to change my address, I need to know if I should use the PO Box or the street address.

[EricDerKonig]

Will the third OOTS book, War and XPs, get another printing run soon? I'd like to order OOTS books 3 and 4 and this book all in one order to save on shipping, but #3 is still out of stock.

[pendell]

Just a reminder/feedback thread to let you guys know to read the News article regarding the latest book, the new releases for the board game, and our plan to donate a portion of our profits to the Red Cross for each sale thereof. You can also click on the blue banner in my signature for more on the book.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have here.

OUT. FLIPPIN'. STANDING.

I will purchase this book as soon as car payments, auto body shop, and the Dread Guardian of Finance, also known as my beloved wife, allow.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Dvandemon]

Has it been two weeks already? I loved those strips (the ending made me tear up) and would love to get this (maybe for my birthday)
How much does it cost? I have 15 on me right now (unsure how much my mother will pitch in) and would actually like my to use my only chance to buy
EDIT: Hi Zordrath :smallsmile:

[Castamir]

Preordered. 14.95$ shipping? I sure hope it comes in a box made of pure gold or something. Do you sign copies that get preordered today? ;)
The Origins costed like twice that to ship (to Poland) -- per item, too. Start of Darkness was damn expensive as well -- but shipping was same no matter how many items you bought so I took a huge box of swag for friends. The 14.95$ is quite a reduction.

The box I received Origins in, while not made of gold, was over twice as big as the book and 9cm deep, filled with fluff, containing nothing but a "domestic" envelope with the book inside. Pretty ridiculous.

That's why I never order overseas anything that isn't truly worth it. OOTS being 3 out of 5 items I ever ordered from the US says something about Rich Burlew. :smallamused:

[MoonCat]

What is a heavy templated snail?

Also, HOORAY! Pre-ordered late for my birthday, but I shall have a lovely time sometime in May.

[potatocubed]

Disappointed that it will cost 50% the price of the book to have it sent to the UK and there's no alternative in this case. Usually I get my OOTS books from a shop in the UK.

I do love OOTS, so I'm tempted, but I would be more comfortable to see a few sample pages before buying considering the expense. Any chance of that?

That's 70%. $21 for the book, $15 for shipping.

Can't Ookoodook add a 'really really slow but also inexpensive' shipping option like Paizo have?

[Dvandemon]

What is a heavy templated snail?

Also, HOORAY! Pre-ordered late for my birthday, but I shall have a lovely time sometime in May.

A snail with a lot of D&D templates such a part dragon,ooze,troll, fiendish, lycanthrope, etc.

[MoonCat]

A snail with a lot of D&D templates such a part dragon,ooze,troll, fiendish, lycanthrope, etc.

Sounds funny. I thought the smear had been a photo that got mis-taken somehow.

[NerfTW]

How much does it cost?

I dunno. If only there were some sort of link in the article to the product page that gives price information!

[Dvandemon]

My computer won't let me go there >.>

[NerfTW]

Your computer won't let you go to a page on this site?

http://www.giantitp.com/GIPOTSDr.html

[Rolaran]

Still not sure I understand the logic behind saying "We'll do one print run, and then never print another one again, ever." Won't that be kind of a pain for new fans of the strip who join after that print run, and want to get their hands on a copy? Is there really no chance - none - of another run down the road? Even if you don't think it's likely, why rule it out? And what safeguards are in place to prevent people from buying extra copies to scalp later? (I actually considered pre-ordering a few extras with this express purpose in mind, but felt it was ethically dubious enough that I held off.)

[Dvandemon]

Your computer won't let you go to a page on this site?

http://www.giantitp.com/GIPOTSDr.html

Well...I skimmed that :smalltongue: Now if my mom could shell out the other half

[Timeless Error]

Oh my gosh. I cannot wait to read this. Especially the edition dimension wars.

*Implodes with excitement*

[SteveDJ]

That's 70%. $21 for the book, $15 for shipping.

Can't Ookoodook add a 'really really slow but also inexpensive' shipping option like Paizo have?

$15 bucks for shipping?!? I don't need it shipped overnight. :smallfrown: USPS has MediaMail, and could ship a book like that for under two dollars max, anywhere in the US.

Sorry, you'll have to count me OUT of this one.

I've bought the others from a local retailer. If this one should show up on their shelves, I'm happy to buy it. But if it takes two years to get there, and I encounter a "copy" elsewhere first...? ...please don't make me have to make that choice, because it won't be a satisfying decision for the author.

[Porthos]

$15 bucks for shipping?!? I don't need it shipped overnight. :smallfrown: USPS has MediaMail, and could ship a book like that for under two dollars max, anywhere in the US.

That's an overseas order.

My shipping came to approx five dollars (*checks*) $5.95. Which is more than reasonable, if you ask me

[SPoD]

Yeah, my order had a shipping cost of about $5, too. If you live in the continental US, shipping will be cheap. It's just that there's a lot of overseas folks on the forum.


Still not sure I understand the logic behind saying "We'll do one print run, and then never print another one again, ever." Won't that be kind of a pain for new fans of the strip who join after that print run, and want to get their hands on a copy? Is there really no chance - none - of another run down the road? Even if you don't think it's likely, why rule it out? And what safeguards are in place to prevent people from buying extra copies to scalp later? (I actually considered pre-ordering a few extras with this express purpose in mind, but felt it was ethically dubious enough that I held off.)

Why would he want to put safeguards in place to prevent that? It's a sale for him either way. If anything, it's the exact opposite: By announcing that it's a limited edition, he encourages people with a little extra money to buy one now and eBay it in two years, thus netting him an extra sale now and the person with the extra cash a little profit later. And those of us who don't want to pay eBay prices in two years should buy now, which again helps Rich earn his money back now and not later.

Every company who has ever put out a "Limited Edition" or "Collector's Edition" has done the same thing.

[alber1ch]

Obviously I MUST have both the book and the expansion.

$15 is high for shipping to the UK - but its $27 for both!:smalleek:

I wondered if we clubbed together somehow we might bring the cost down, but I suspect that would be too complex. A UK distibutor might be appreciated though.:smallsmile:

[Rolaran]

Why would he want to put safeguards in place to prevent that? It's a sale for him either way. If anything, it's the exact opposite: By announcing that it's a limited edition, he encourages people with a little extra money to buy one now and eBay it in two years, thus netting him an extra sale now and the person with the extra cash a little profit later. And those of us who don't want to pay eBay prices in two years should buy now, which again helps Rich earn his money back now and not later.

Every company who has ever put out a "Limited Edition" or "Collector's Edition" has done the same thing.

I suppose. I'm mostly concerned for the people who don't find out about the comic until after this is over, but I suppose that's why eBay was invented. It just seems weird to encourage a system where other people can make a profit off of the Giant's hard work, just by grabbing a copy now and sitting on it for a few years. Well, that's capitalism for you.

Also, it occurred to me afterward that with the Japan quake relief, buying more copies now really can't be that bad a thing to do. (Add to that the fact that it's thanks to this board that I actually know some folks in Japan...)

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to invest in a little art speculation. And by that I mean, pre-order a bunch of copies to keep in mint condition in a safety deposit box somewhere. (That oughta earn a funny look or two from the bank tellers.)

[Hazelnut]

There's 780 pages of samples on this site right now. What exactly would you need to see? :smallconfused:

Well, if it were more of the OOTS continuity then I would have ordered already, but Rich already said this is not part of the continuity that we know - I imagine more like 'outtakes' or something. I know nothing of the Dragon strips, and I'm not much of a tabletop gamer - my D&D experience is PC games only. So, although I think it quite likely I will enjoy the book, I'm not sure. At $35 for 112 pages, it's not cheap and unfortunately I have to be very prudent with my limited luxury money.

Does that make more sense? I hope so...

TBH I will most likely pre-order this without seeing sample strips, I'm certainly not trying to twist Rich's arm - it was just a simple request. :smallamused:

[Fitzclowningham]

Ordered! Say, Rich, I was wondering if you would like/are able to talk about how you came to an understanding with Hasbro. It was their ownership of the IP that kept you from publishing the material before, wasn't it?

Thanks

[Morgan Wick]

Here's the real question this brings up.

Does this mean none of the "mainline" books will be green?

Because most of the speculation was that the current book would be green to go along with Belkar on the cover...

[The Giant]

Ordered! Say, Rich, I was wondering if you would like/are able to talk about how you came to an understanding with Hasbro. It was their ownership of the IP that kept you from publishing the material before, wasn't it?

No, that was never the case, and I've said so before. No one has ever owned any OOTS material other than me. My contract with Paizo (because they were the licensed publishers at the time, not Hasbro) specifically left all IP rights in my hands. Pazio only got publishing rights, to the point that they weren't allowed to put OOTS strips in their PDF versions of Dragon® because that hadn't been stipulated in the contracts.

What kept me from publishing before now was not enough appropriate ideas to fill out an entire book, followed by the time to actually write and produce the book without letting my updates on the regular comic get worse than my already-crappy pace.


Here's the real question this brings up.

Does this mean none of the "mainline" books will be green?

Because most of the speculation was that the current book would be green to go along with Belkar on the cover...

There are many shades of green. There are three right in Belkar's outfit, in fact. Though it would be purely speculative to assume that Belkar will necessarily be on the cover of the next book, or that if he was, that the book color would necessarily be green.

[Unregistered]

Like other oversea forumites, I am not too thrilled about this "limited offer" because I now pay $ 36.90 for book and expansion and $ 28.90 for shipping. But oh well, it'll be my treat for the month. And of course, I wasn't forced to buy the expansion as well.

Still, I hope I can buy the next products at my retailer again.

[Mickus]

(I just joined but I've been a long time reader of the comic.)

I was so excited when I saw the news about a new book and loved it even more when I read what it was about and thought to myself:
"Nice! Can't wait until my local store import... ONLY ON OOKOODOOK!? Where's me creditcard!?"

And then some mad rummaging ensued and not a cat was left unflinged across the rooms of me humble abode.

[Manga Maniac]

Ach, the postal stuff make it come to $36.90. Even in dollars (which are slightly less than the pound, though not by much IIRC), it's still gonna be a bit hard to convince my beloved benefactors to get it for me.

Still, I'll try and get it.

Stupid bankers.

[Quercus_Arbor]

I've been waiting forever to see the strips from the magazine I never got to see.
And the 4th Dimension strips are bound to crack me up.
So I am ordering two copies.
They'll be-out of-print first editions in three month's time!

[Kurald Galain]

Hmmm...

On the one hand, awesome book.

On the other hand, I'm put off by the extravagant shipping costs. Honestly now, $15 shipping on a $20 book, who makes up stuff like that? I'm happy to pay The Giant for quality comics; I'm substantially less eager to pay a third party much more than shipping costs on other sites.

[Morgan Wick]

Though it would be purely speculative to assume that Belkar will necessarily be on the cover of the next book, or that if he was, that the book color would necessarily be green.

Nice non-answer.

(SQUEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!eleven! The Giant responded to one of my posts!)

[Vemynal]

Pre-ordered!



without letting my updates on the regular comic get worse than my already-crappy pace.


Its ok Giant, the "crappy pace" is made up for by brilliant work ^_^


...+ this book has an evil snail on it...

I need this book...

[MoonCat]

How come the dragon doesn't look like a regular OoTS dragon?

[Zevox]

Eh? New book, with exclusive material, and a limited print run? Better grab one while I can then. Pre-ordered. :smallsmile:

Zevox

[MoonCat]

Am saying that the reason you're doing a limited print run (I looked at the FAQ) seems a bit silly, it looks like loads of people want it, and there's enough extra stuff to interest them. But that's just me saying, I really have no idea.

Also, the title references both the rhyme, and snails and dragons. What's a smip? :smallwink:

[Raging Gene Ray]

How come the dragon doesn't look like a regular OoTS dragon?

Because it's SPECIAL :smallsmile:!

[Porthos]

How come the dragon doesn't look like a regular OoTS dragon?

Spoilers:
Because it is THE Dragon. :smallcool:

[Moriarty]

Ookoodook exclusivity makes this one a rather expensive book considering the 15$ shipping. :smallfrown:

Combined with the "buy now, because it's only available fpr a short time!" restrictions, this makes for a rather aggressive advertising strategy.

[ref]

Pre-ordered via a friend I have in the States, who will then send to me (So I can pick a more comfortable payment option for me)

[Chitara]

Ookoodook exclusivity makes this one a rather expensive book considering the 15$ shipping. :smallfrown:


Try the $42.95 shipping, which is what I'd have to look at in lil' ol' New Zealand.
Why?
Because last time we bought OotS through an international website and they used those piddly cardboard envelopes, they arrived damaged. And I'm VERY careful about my books.
The company at the time offered a voucher... but seriously the only things we ordered from them was OotS so by the time the next one came out it'd expired...

So I want it... oh yes I do...
But I gotta get some friends together and see if we can make it worth the cost...:smallfrown:

[Seraphem]

Ordered, also snagged a copy of SoD while I was at it.

And yeah I'd like to add to the people who wish there was a "really slow but cheap" delivery option instead of the "super ultra deluxe first class money sink" only option. Only thing that kinda made me think twice about ordering something, then i saw "limited time offer".

[Surfing HalfOrc]

OK, I'm having MAJOR problems with the Ookoodook site. I registered, but when I try to put in my address, view my order, or anything else I get a No Selection error. The drop down menu does nothing, the Edit button leads to the No Selection error. I also tried the Contact Us function, but when I clicked Submit, I got a Website Does Not Exist error. I've tried both my computer at home and my Smart Phone.

I don't want to try to buy this off eBay in the aftermarket market, but I'm getting a tad frustrated. Any suggestions? I've bought every other book through either Paizo or my FLGS.

[Bleak Ink]

*delighted cackle* Ordered! Early May gives me the perfect reason- a birthday present for myself, wa haha! As for the Dungeon Crawlin' Fools I picked up with it- a very merry unbirthday as well! :smallcool:

[lothos]

--ordering problems [snip].

I tried ordering in Firefox, which is my usual browser. I have noscript installed and other things like adblock plus and "the proxomitron". Dispite lowering my "shields" as much as possible I couldn't order in that browser.

Then I tried in IE8. It worked first time.... I'm not saying it's the web site's fault, might have been that I had some protection still up in Firefox that I'd forgotten about. I only ever use IE as a fallback position and it almost always works.

You have probably already tried that, but just thought I'd mention it...

[BrokenButterfly]

Excellent news in the midst of my essayocalypse

Looking forward to ordering it soon

[NerfTW]

And yeah I'd like to add to the people who wish there was a "really slow but cheap" delivery option instead of the "super ultra deluxe first class money sink" only option.

Have you ever ordered bulk shipping overseas? The package would arrive completely destroyed, and that's if it isn't lost in some warehouse in West ShippingSpot for a few months. The amount of books that would need to be refunded due to being destroyed, lost, or just delayed so long they thought it was lost would be astronomical.

It's not "super ultra deluxe first class money sink". It's "We're not a large business, we can't afford to lose packages to save a few bucks"

[SPoD]

Have you ever ordered bulk shipping overseas? The package would arrive completely destroyed, and that's if it isn't lost in some warehouse in West ShippingSpot for a few months. The amount of books that would need to be refunded due to being destroyed, lost, or just delayed so long they thought it was lost would be astronomical.

It's not "super ultra deluxe first class money sink". It's "We're not a large business, we can't afford to lose packages to save a few bucks"

This.

Anyone who was around when the very first book came out would remember that something like 700 books got lost in bulk shipping to Europe. Rich had to send them all again and eat the cost of better-quality shipping. I think it almost put him out of business. I'm not surprised he's not willing to take that chance again.

[squidbreath]

Edit: Nevermind.

[Nimrod's Son]

What is a heavy templated snail?
Click the little picture underneath the book cover. (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/OOTSSnipsSnailsAndDragonTales.shtml)


How come the dragon doesn't look like a regular OoTS dragon?
It's this guy:
http://i.somethingawful.com/u/sumner/dragon/dragon_1.jpg

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I tried ordering in Firefox, which is my usual browser. I have noscript installed and other things like adblock plus and "the proxomitron". Dispite lowering my "shields" as much as possible I couldn't order in that browser.

Then I tried in IE8. It worked first time.... I'm not saying it's the web site's fault, might have been that I had some protection still up in Firefox that I'd forgotten about. I only ever use IE as a fallback position and it almost always works.

You have probably already tried that, but just thought I'd mention it...

Used IE8 on two different computers, plus my Galaxy Tab running the Google browser. Could it be because my ISP is in Korea?

Never mind. Figured it out, and now it's on order! Mega-woot!

[LtPowers]

My only problem with the pre-order and limited print run is that I can't risk waiting to put this on my birthday wish list. =(


Powers &8^]

[Zerg Cookie]

I'd really like to read this book but I have a question:

What are the chances this book will still be in stock when OotS #5 comes out?
Shipment to Israel is relatively expansive and I'd rather get both for 1 shipment cost.


Also, what are the chances that one of the gaming stores in Israel will have it?
The only place I ever found OotS books in doesn't seem to restock anymore.

[Unregistered]

This.

Anyone who was around when the very first book came out would remember that something like 700 books got lost in bulk shipping to Europe. Rich had to send them all again and eat the cost of better-quality shipping. I think it almost put him out of business. I'm not surprised he's not willing to take that chance again.

Huh, I didn't know that. Makes it a lot more understandable.

[apegamer]

I saw various posts about the $15 shipping overseas, and wanted to post a reply. I regret that USPS raises the costs of shipping every year. We ship USPS Priority, and provide either Priority Flat Rate or regular Priority, for tracking purposes.

It's been suggested that we use Media Mail, but you don't want that. It's not only really slow, but there's no tracking and shipping is unreliable. We want your package to get there.

Also, any way you slice it, shipping a poster overseas with any other product ends up costing a lot simply because of the size of the box. Posters by themselves aren't terrible, so you might check whether placing two separate orders would be cheaper for you.

If you have additional questions, shoot me an email at [email protected].

Thanks,
Kevin

[factotum]

What are the chances this book will still be in stock when OotS #5 comes out?
Shipment to Israel is relatively expansive and I'd rather get both for 1 shipment cost.

Also, what are the chances that one of the gaming stores in Israel will have it?
The only place I ever found OotS books in doesn't seem to restock anymore.

The Giant said that (a) the number they print will depend to a large extent on the amount of pre-orders and (b) it will only be available from Ookoodook. Given that, I'd say the answer to your questions is "Almost certainly not" and "As near zero as makes no odds".

[Morph Bark]

This, along with Start of Darkness and Origin of the PCs, are the books that I definitely consider buying. Does Ookoodook ship to continental Europe?

[Ancalagon]

Yes. 14.95 to germany, so it probably will be similar/the same for the rest of continental europe.

The only annoying thing: your package can get stuck in customs, so you have to drive over and pick it up yourself (after you have shown it does not contain money/ipods/cocaine/jeans/...).

[Renegade Paladin]

I am all over ordering this. Now that it's done, I intend to forget about it until May. I suggest you all do the same; saves a lot of impatience. :smallwink:

[Ancalagon]

Now that it's done, I intend to forget about it until May. I suggest you all do the same; saves a lot of impatience. :smallwink:

That is the only viable thing to do in cases like these. Impatience won't make the inevitable delays (printing, shipping, somethinging) any better... ;)

[MoonCat]

Click the little picture underneath the book cover. (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/OOTSSnipsSnailsAndDragonTales.shtml)

Cool, thanks. That thing looks very odd. I note that it is also the background of the book as well.



It's this guy:
http://i.somethingawful.com/u/sumner/dragon/dragon_1.jpg


I rely on you :smallwink: Thanks!

[apegamer]

I just added another shipping option for the new book. It's still Priority mail, but now you can add more books into the Priority Envelope (up to 3), which will save shipping for some customers that wanted to order more than a couple books.

Also, when placing your order, be sure to check all of the shipping options that are listed. The combination of products that you order can cause a variation in prices.

Just trying to save you a little money. I'd rather you saved it for our next product than give it to the postal service.

[Vorynn]

Hi there,

I really want to order both the new book, and the board game expansion (nobody at my boardgame nights ever wants to play OOTS because it takes so very long, so I'm hoping this will get it played more often!). However, I have a conundrum:

I will likely be moving to a new address at some point in May, and I don't know what that address will be (though it will be in the same state, so shipping costs should be the same, I hope?). If I pre-order now with my current address, is there a way to change the shipping address for the order later? I don't want my stuff shipped to whoever ends up living in my current apartment after I move out :)

Cheers!

[The Giant]

Hi there,

I really want to order both the new book, and the board game expansion (nobody at my boardgame nights ever wants to play OOTS because it takes so very long, so I'm hoping this will get it played more often!). However, I have a conundrum:

I will likely be moving to a new address at some point in May, and I don't know what that address will be (though it will be in the same state, so shipping costs should be the same, I hope?). If I pre-order now with my current address, is there a way to change the shipping address for the order later? I don't want my stuff shipped to whoever ends up living in my current apartment after I move out :)

Cheers!

I am sure that Kevin can hook you up. Try emailing him here:


If you have additional questions, shoot me an email at [email protected].

You'll probably then have to email your new address when you get it and he'll make it all work out like magic. He's good at that.

[Vorynn]

I am sure that Kevin can hook you up. Try emailing him here:

You'll probably then have to email your new address when you get it and he'll make it all work out like magic. He's good at that.

Awesometastic. Mail sent, and hopefully, book ordered soon. Thanks!

[Scorpions__]

Huh, I always thought I could wait till the OOTS saga was completely done and some sort of mega-ultimate-special collecter's editon box set of all the books was released, and then I would buy that.

But what you're saying is that this material will never be printed again in any form so I should order it now?

Promise?






DM[F]R

[factotum]

You'll probably then have to email your new address when you get it and he'll make it all work out like magic. He's good at that.

I can confirm that--I had one of the books (I forget which one) on order for delivery to my company address when I lost my job back in 2007, and they were quite happy to change the delivery to my home address; never had the slightest problem.

[ekedolphin]

I am very excited to finally see the Dragon Magazine comics in a printed compilation-- along with tons of new material!

[The Giant]

Huh, I always thought I could wait till the OOTS saga was completely done and some sort of mega-ultimate-special collecter's editon box set of all the books was released, and then I would buy that.

But what you're saying is that this material will never be printed again in any form so I should order it now?

Promise?

No, I'm saying this book in this format will never be printed again. I can't say for certain that any one section of it may never be printed again.

However, I wouldn't necessarily pin all of my hopes on the existence of a "mega-ultimate-special collecter's editon box set of all the books" at the end of the comic's run anyway, because I've honestly never even thought of doing such a thing. I don't think there would be much audience for it, though I guess I should consider it.

[NerfTW]

I will likely be moving to a new address at some point in May, and I don't know what that address will be (though it will be in the same state, so shipping costs should be the same, I hope?). If I pre-order now with my current address, is there a way to change the shipping address for the order later? I don't want my stuff shipped to whoever ends up living in my current apartment after I move out :)
Cheers!


Mail forwarding. Check with your local post office or USPS.com

[jimbo_the_tubby]

Weird question, and sorry if it already got asked but I didn't see it...

Will this book be numbered in any way? Origin of the PCs is #0 and Start of Darkness is #-1, and I always liked the unconventional numbering scheme of the books so I'm interested if this one will be #0.5 or #sqrt(-1) or somesuch.

[factotum]

Will this book be numbered in any way?

Asked, and answered by the Giant, in another thread:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190825

[abadguy]

Are all of the books still available on APE for order? Just wondering if there is a coupon/discount for bulk ordering or purchasing more than one OOTS book at once.

[Kurald Galain]

Are all of the books still available on APE for order?
Yes, except for book 2 and 3 which are out of print. But we can always hope that The Giant will consider a new print run for them after SSDT is successful.

[ChrisFortyTwo]

Pre-ordered!

Its ok Giant, the "crappy pace" is made up for by brilliant work ^_^
...+ this book has an evil snail on it...
I need this book...

When I saw the quote, I clicked on the original post to report it, then realized that it was the Giant's post, and figured he was the only one who could make comments about the update schedule without violating the forum rules.

Anyway, love the comic, and looking forward to the next book (and the game expansion).


How come the dragon doesn't look like a regular OoTS dragon?

I think it is in the style of the stuffed dragons that appear throughout the strip (mostly with MiTD and Eric, but I think there's one with Roy from the first encounter with Xykon).

[Ashtar]

Ooargl!

I need it, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet on the shipping. I'd been waiting in the hope of getting 3 and 4 together. But now 3 is out of print... And D is only for a limited print run. Is there any chance that Volume 3 would be reprinted before D gets printed? Could we start a list of "I will buy D + volume x,y,z if available" to gauge interest in the currently out of print volumes 2 and 3.

Well, I'll wait a few days to decide...

[LightsOnNo1Home]

Just in case anyone wants to know, once paypal converted it to GBP and billed me for it, then the book plus shipping to the UK came to about £24.

[The Giant]

Is there any chance that Volume 3 would be reprinted before D gets printed?

There is no chance of anything else being reprinted before D gets printed. The money I have is going toward printing D, not reprinting 3, which would cost four times as much per copy to print.

[Ashtar]

Thanks for the answer. I'll order tonight then.

Off to my first RPG-group-member wedding now!

[Asthix]

I've only been aware of OotS for about eight months and figured I could get the print only editions all at once. With this book it seemed like the time to get -1 and 0. but 'On the Origin of PC's' returns a quantity of 0 when I add it to my cart. It said earlier in this thread that there is no sold out label for things on Ookookdook so I'm trying to confirm if it is sold out before I buy the new one.

It seems like it is, and apparently book three is first in line to be reprinted, so is there another way I could order book 0 if it is sold out on ookookdook?

[Savil]

It said earlier in this thread that there is no sold out label for things on Ookookdook so I'm trying to confirm if it is sold out before I buy the new one.
Actually, a warning sign "Product: Order of the Stick: Book 0 - On the Origin of PCs. This item is out of stock. " is shown when you try to add it to the cart. Though I also missed it a couple of times.

[Chitara]

The only annoying thing: your package can get stuck in customs, so you have to drive over and pick it up yourself (after you have shown it does not contain money/ipods/cocaine/jeans/...).

:smalleek: Jeans? You serious? What, do they fear the denim guerilla?

[Capt Spanner]

I've pre-ordered mine, and wish to remind the OOTS community that the more of these books are sold (and the faster they're sold!) the sooner War & XPs will come back into print.

[Felixaar]

:smalleek: Jeans? You serious? What, do they fear the denim guerilla?

Isn't everyone afraid of damned gorillas?

I've preordered mine :smallbiggrin:

[ref]

Your damned gorilla?

[StarGazer42]

So... any hope of that Book 3 reprint? It makes me sad to have such a glaring hole in my collection. :smallfrown:

[merrygoblin]

Pre-ordered it, along with Book 1 which I still don't have, at least that way it mitigates the cost of the shipping to Europe.

That leaves books 2 and 3 for me to get. What are the chances they'll both be in stock at the same time when they get re-printed, so as to minimise the shipping?

[Seiryu]

The only books I own so far are the 2 prequel ones, so I thought this would be a good time to buy some.

The shipping on this one is $15, and if I add books 1 and 4 to the package, the shipping becomes $43, for a grand total of $119.70, and I'd still be missing two books. I really wish I knew some comic store that sold this in Brazil...

[SPoD]

So... any hope of that Book 3 reprint? It makes me sad to have such a glaring hole in my collection. :smallfrown:

This was already asked and answered by the Giant earlier in the thread.

[Morgan Wick]

I would order in a heartbeat (after all, I oughta do SOMETHING to hasten a No Cure reprint) if I weren't a) broke and b) scared of the embarrassment resulting from one of my parents opening the door and wondering what it was that came for me.

(No, I don't live in my parents' basement. We don't have a basement.)

[factotum]

Worried about embarrassment from an OotS book arriving? :smallconfused: I could understand some embarrassment if the book were "How to come out as gay to your parents" or "101 ways to molest a cadaver", but I don't see why a comic book is going to cause any...

[Gift Jeraff]

My mom saw the cover of On the Origin of PCs and she still loves me. I hope.

Is it the "Dragon Tales" part of the title? :smallamused:

[MoonCat]

What's wrong with the cover? The covers are awesome.

[Asthix]

Actually, a warning sign "Product: Order of the Stick: Book 0 - On the Origin of PCs. This item is out of stock. " is shown when you try to add it to the cart. Though I also missed it a couple of times.

I still can't see it but thanks for the info.

Just reposting my earlier question if there is a way to get The Giant money for 'On the Order of PC's' or if I have to go the eBay route?

EDIT: it does say in the shop link to the left that it is still available.

[Vemynal]

heh funnily enough I shipped it to my parents house which is 2 hours away (much safer shipping it there)

And they know and love me anyways ^_^

(about the being gay bit too)

[slimabob]

Can't wait to get it.

[Morgan Wick]

Worried about embarrassment from an OotS book arriving? :smallconfused: I could understand some embarrassment if the book were "How to come out as gay to your parents" or "101 ways to molest a cadaver", but I don't see why a comic book is going to cause any...

I'm just irrationally scared of the embarrassment of having to discuss something I've never talked with my parents about with my parents, even if briefly, jokingly, and focused on that embarrassment.

(And even if my dad already reads enough of my blog to know something of OOTS and my mom would probably really enjoy it... actually, maybe that's part of it: everyone knows how something becomes infinitely less cool once your parents like it! :smalltongue:)

[lothos]

Worried about embarrassment from an OotS book arriving? :smallconfused: I could understand some embarrassment if the book were "How to come out as gay to your parents" or "101 ways to molest a cadaver", but I don't see why a comic book is going to cause any...

Or a book of Vile Darkness (not the D&D rulebook, the actual BOVD). I keep looking for one on ebay, but some guy called Redcloak keeps outbidding me.

Maybe you can get it shipped in a plain brown envelope or something.....

[Alex Warlorn]

I just hope the 'Invaders from the 4th Dimension' isn't about how '4E Rocks!'

And Roy and his pals are doomed, each new version of D&D has been about (in part) giving more firepower to the PCs.

And I know it's ultimately a non-canon comic so the outcome shouldn't really matter either way.

[silversaraph]

Just checking... okay, I have enough in Paypal for this and and my Help Japan bids. Sorry about all you guys overseas with the shipping, that really sucks.

And speaking of which, I think it would be awesome if the Giant put up an autographed copy of this as an auction in the dreamwidth or livejournal help japan forums. It'd probably go for an insanely high amount.

On a different note, does anyone else experience the sheer ecstasy of when a laminated book arrives in the mail on a cold day? If it's warm when it arrives I'm putting it in the fridge before I open it. :smalltongue:

Edit: Order Number: 9249? I just saw it was being sold! It must be impossible to try and be the first one to pre-order.

[Akabana_Shin]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I want to know until when the book will be available through pre-order (I can only buy it after the first week of April and I wouldn't want to miss it just for being a couple of weeks late.)

I'd also like to know how much does it weight and its size (for shipping info.)

Thanks.

[MoonCat]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I want to know until when the book will be available through pre-order (I can only buy it after the first week of April and I wouldn't want to miss it just for being a couple of weeks late.)

I'd also like to know how much does it weight and its size (for shipping info.)

Thanks.

It comes out in May.

[Asthix]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I want to know until when the book will be available through pre-order (I can only buy it after the first week of April and I wouldn't want to miss it just for being a couple of weeks late.)

I'd also like to know how much does it weight and its size (for shipping info.) Thanks.

Based on this answer by The Giant, I'd say there will be planned inventory for you to order in April:


The book won't be sent to the printer until the first week in April, in order to help us judge how many orders we're going to get. Based on previous books, we know that about 75% of all the order we're going to get will be in the first two weeks, and the other 25% will be over the next 3 months, so we'll extrapolate the print run number from what we get in March.----

And speaking of which, I think it would be awesome if the Giant put up an autographed copy of this as an auction in the dreamwidth or livejournal help japan forums. It'd probably go for an insanely high amount.

That sounds like a great idea.

Also, I've found On the Origin of PC's available from a third party distributor, if there's no way to better share the wealth I'll buy it from them.

[Akabana_Shin]

Thanks Asthix! I hope I can manage to get my hands on it before it runs out.

[Ashtar]

Ordered 4 and D ! :)

Now I only have to wait for a reprint of 3 and for 5 to come out.

[Tundar]

Yikes, $13.95 in postage to Europe?

Too bad my local store won't see any of these.

[Velarias]

Worried about embarrassment from an OotS book arriving? :smallconfused: I could understand some embarrassment if the book were "How to come out as gay to your parents" or "101 ways to molest a cadaver"

^That bit about the cadaver was awesome.:smallbiggrin:

Aaaaand pre-ordered, thank you Giant! Can't wait for the reprints either! :smallwink:

[honigmuffin]

I just added another shipping option for the new book. It's still Priority mail, but now you can add more books into the Priority Envelope (up to 3), which will save shipping for some customers that wanted to order more than a couple books.

Just a quick question regarding this update, does this three books in one Priority Envelope-thingy work with any three books (say, one each of -1, 0 and D) or does it have to be three of the same kind?

Also, too bad 0 is apparently out of print. My Austrian local gaming store hasn't had -1 and 0 in stock for at least a year and a half now, maybe longer, because their German supplier doesn't have them. I'd have loved to get them together with D if shipping remains at $13.95 for all three books.

[ZombieMaster]

Hi Giant,

I am/was very interested in this book, but understood it was a pre-order, not a pre-purchase. I pre-ordered it when it was first announced, but just noticed on my credit card bill that I have already been charged for it, as of March 17th, which is 6 to 10 weeks from the actual release date (assuming it does indeed come out in May).

How come I have already been billed for the book? Was this an error?

[MoonCat]

Pre-order means you have purchased it, isn't that so?

[Lira]

Hi Giant,

I am/was very interested in this book, but understood it was a pre-order, not a pre-purchase. I pre-ordered it when it was first announced, but just noticed on my credit card bill that I have already been charged for it, as of March 17th, which is 6 to 10 weeks from the actual release date (assuming it does indeed come out in May).

How come I have already been billed for the book? Was this an error?Really? You didn't notice the bold, red text on the page for the book on ookoodook (http://www.ookoodook.com/store/OOTSSnipsSnailsAndDragonTales.shtml)?

This product is currently a pre-order; it is scheduled to ship in early May 2011. Payment will be taken at the time the order is placed. Your entire order will ship when all items are available.

[ZombieMaster]

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

[Caractacus]

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

Look at it this way - so much time will elapse between now and when you get it that when it comes it'll seem free! :smallcool:

[Kish]

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.
The entire point of the requirement to preorder is so that too many books won't get printed. People being able to cancel their preorders would defeat the purpose of the exercise.

[The Giant]

Nope, I somehow managed to completely miss that text :-)

It's pretty non-standard for payment to be required when ordering something, so I guess I just wasn't expecting to have to watch out for that. C'est la vie, I guess.

Still looking forward to the book though :-)

By charging people's cards now, the Ookoodook servers don't have to store anyone's credit card information for the next month or so, meaning that it's a lot more secure for both customers and them. As I understand it, that's the primary reason for charging cards immediately.

[ref]

Ah, hadn't thought of that. Very clever.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I ordered the book, can't wait 'til it comes.

[Asthix]

I finally got around to ordering today, and Ookookdook has On the Origin of PC's! Great!

EDIT: It seems I can't buy them with a debit card. That's too bad. I won't be able to buy them if that's the case. :smallfrown:

[apegamer]

Just a post to let folks know that the registration problem some of you have had on ookoodook.com should be addressed now.

Note that it's not necessary to register in order to buy something from the store. You can just check out as a guest and we won't store your info.

[WeLoveFireballs]

Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).

[The Giant]

Awww I wish I noticed this book sooner. Oh well printing may have started and charity is over but I'm ordering one! And I agree with several people who have mentioned it, new material>90% old material books! (nevertheless I still have all the books except war and XPs).

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.

[Lord_Jadawin]

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.

Thank you! I was looking at Snips two nights ago and decided to hold off since I had missed the deadline, but in light of this I just placed my preorder.

[Irbis]

"Found" Paladin Blues? :smallconfused:

Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person :smalltongue:

[NerfTW]

Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits. I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.

I can probably guess the story:

"The box was misplaced under a set of something else. It was assumed lost/stolen and forgotten about until we found it while looking through X product/doing an inventory. This sort of thing happens quite often, end of story"

I don't think you'll ever get an answer, because any discussion about it is between him and APE Games.

[Ted The Bug]

"Found" Paladin Blues? :smallconfused:

Hmm, I have no idea how you (as in, the printing/selling company) can so easily misplace for so long a big hunk of something printed in such small volume. Especially seeing the author's welfare sort of depends on these books being sold, not lost/misplaced. Do they keep stock of items at all?

I'd like to hear a story about this one someday, preferably in person :smalltongue:

Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.
And also, $3,200! Proud to be a part of it, even if that part is pretty small.

[Irbis]

Seventy five copies is not exactly a "big hunk" of the print run for NCftPB. The print run was in the thousands, if not entering five digits.

Wait, what? :smallconfused:

Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books, and that in the case of trade paperbacks, which are significantly more marketable than OotS, and cheaper to boot. Sorry, OotS is good, but compared to flagship titles of US/manga comic books, it's a niche.

Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.

The only titles even close to five digits are $2.99, thin monthly comic books, and if someone really managed 5 digits selling OotS, then he is an economic genius larger than Greenspan and Smith combined.

So, yes, 75 pieces is a big hunk of the printing run.


I think you're underestimating how easy it is to misplace one box of something in a massive warehouse.

Oh? Small publishers have... 'massive warehouse'? :smallconfused:

Do you know how much such a thing does cost? Especially in business where margins are paper-thin? Have you ever been in actual printer warehouse? I was, and the largest printer of comic books (pushing dozen+ titles per month) in my country has room sized one. Hardly a place where you can misplace something for more than a five minutes.

[Jimorian]

Top webcomic readerships DWARF the most popular comics by Marvel or DC. We're talking mid to high 6 figures for comics like OOTS, or Questionable content, with XKCD and Penny Arcade possibly into 7 figures or approaching 8.

I don't know how much of that translates into sales (and that's Rich's private business), but making a living as a book author pretty much demands regular high 4-figure to low 5-figure sales. Other merchandise might be a very large factor as well and is difficult to estimate. Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content, for example, lives off of and has bought a house on only selling T-shirts promoted via his comic/site.

But 5 figures is not something I would hesitate to believe for a moment if that's what somebody told me.

[Lira]

I work for a warehouse, and you have no idea how easy it is to misplace stuff. :smalltongue:

[The Giant]

(Factually inaccurate rant)

There are about 28,000 copies of Paladin Blues in circulation since 2006. It is not the bestselling OOTS book we have ever printed; both the black-and-white books beat it by a fairly large margin, as does Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. ~75 copies represents four boxes, each about 10" x 16" x 8", out of over a thousand such boxes for that one title alone. Ookoodook shares a very large warehouse space with several other companies, where there are, sometimes, several pallets of books. Since the First Printing of Paladin Blues dates from before Ookoodook handled my ordering, they probably were mixed in with a shipment they received but not noticed until now.

I have no idea what the readership or purchase levels for Marvel or DC titles are, but I would point out that OOTS has a readership online of around three-quarters of a million individuals. That less than 5% of those readers buy any given book is not exactly "economic genius."


Rich makes his living off of OotS? Always thought that he did work for WotC on the side. Well, shows you how much I know.

I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.

[FujinAkari]

That? Right there? That's why we <3 you Rich :)

Well, one of the reasons.

[Ted The Bug]

Supporting a family just on book/merchandise sales, with no site ads at all? That is awesomeness right there. If I hadn't already preordered already, that would've gotten me to do it.

[NerfTW]

Five digits? I don't know in which country you live in, but even in US, the largest comic book market in the world, five digit circulation is unheard of outside Batman-level of popularity for comic books

Five digits is 10,000 btw. That's "Ten Thousand". Ten thousand would be a laughably small print run for a Marvel or DC comic book.

[SPoD]

Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books.

Not that I need to add anything to the Giant's utter refutation of everything you said, but I would point out that Batman: The Long Halloween was released in trade paperback in 1999, twelve years ago. If it's still selling 7000 copies per year twelve years in, then the total number of sales is going to still dwarf those of any OOTS book. Will Paladin Blues still be selling strong in 2018? Probably not.

So what we have here is simply a failure to understand the significance of the numbers you quoted.

[turkishproverb]

Saw the announcement. Got to digging up a copy of "no cure" and Dragon. Shame I didn't get around to ordering it sooner.


I haven't done any work for WOTC since Dungeonscape was printed in early 2007, and that was only the third book I had worked on. It was never a significant income stream, because it was low-paying work-for-hire (that is, a small lump sum upon completion and no royalties). I've been essentially supporting my family on OOTS since Dungeon Crawlin' Fools came out in 2005.

Well, I"m glad you've been able to do so.



Honestly, I would be very surprised if any OotS book broke four digits, and that if prefaced by '1', if that. Two numbers for comparison - in the whole 2010/11, Batman The Long Halloween (priced $19.99) managed to sell 7000 books. Naruto vol 47 (priced $9.99) managed 6.500. I'd like you to show something supporting your claim that OotS outsells two vastly more popular titles by an order of magnitude.


Those are only the DM figures, you know. Bookstore adds alot to each of those comics, as do internet non-comic shop sales like amazon.

Further, webocimics are treated more like "comic strips' than "comic books" in terms of readership, and as such have a fair chance of surprisingly high book sales.

[Morgan Wick]

Despite my misgivings and broke-ness from earlier in the thread, I'm just about to order one of those No Cure copies off a gift card I got at Christmas. My one misgiving now is not being able to order anything else to accelerate a War and XPs reprint (or take advantage of my likely one chance to get this new book).

(Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)

[tassaron]

Blah. I want to order this and No Cure (which I've been waiting for for a long time) but I won't have disposable income until August at the earliest. Such bad timing. :smallfrown:

[Kurald Galain]

As per the News post, I'm extending the donation drive until we sell the last of the Paladin Blues copies we found in the warehouse. That retroactively includes any books sold between March 31st and then.
That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?

[SPoD]

(Edit: Or I won't order it because my gift card just barely comes up short to cover the cost of shipping, I can't order off a second card, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to put for some of the fields anyway - my card has a "message" from the people who gave it to me instead of a name.)

You should try contacting apegamer, he can usually fix stuff like the fields problem. His email is [email protected].

EDITED for ninja-ing:

That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?

He can probably help with that, too.

[silversaraph]

I love the idea of finding a forgotten box of books in a warehouse. I've helped clean out a few storage facilities and all of them had something or other that people misplaced or just had no idea was even there. An example, I took inventory at my school's science lab and found dozens of things that are either now illegal or super dangerous, including five pounds of 30 year old potassium metal (which superoxides and will explode in contact with air.)

Point is it's easy for even a small warehouse to have several lost boxes of books. Personally, I'd love to search these places for that misplaced merchandise... finding something long lost feels like getting it for free in the first place.

[Ashtar]

In the print run of my dad's first book, the publisher managed to lose 600 copies in a warehouse shuffle. We do know that some of them later turned up on Ebay, though. That hurts, since my dad was not compensated for those lost royalties.

So it does happen.

Oh and The Giant, thanks for all the information. I really appreciate knowing there's so many fans out there who got the book.

[apegamer]

That's awesome. Okay, so I've now ordered Paladin Blues and I'd already ordered Dragon Tales two weeks ago. Would it be possible somehow to combine those orders to save on intercontinental shipping costs?

If you'd like to combine an order (Pal Blues with Dragon Tales), then email us at [email protected]. We'll let you know if it makes sense to do in your case.

[Stormreaver]

No, I'm saying this book in this format will never be printed again. I can't say for certain that any one section of it may never be printed again.

However, I wouldn't necessarily pin all of my hopes on the existence of a "mega-ultimate-special collecter's editon box set of all the books" at the end of the comic's run anyway, because I've honestly never even thought of doing such a thing. I don't think there would be much audience for it, though I guess I should consider it.


Is there any way to poll book ownership through people's forum profile? That might be a good way to get a more solid number for any possible reprint runs. From the news page it seems that only book -1 and book 1 have had reprints. I managed to order book 2, today, from the misplaced boxes lot.

In visiting sites like eBay and Amazon, the out of print books are hitting very high prices. There's no way in Hades that I'd shell out $900 to an Amazon merchant for book 0 and another $130 to an eBay seller for book 3 just to complete my collection.

Things like this always make me curse the speculators who I had my first bile-filled taste of during my days of playing M:tG and seeing "the lotus" go from $15 in 1994 to well over $2000 nowadays...always just out of reach...like the cookie jar (first on the counter, then on the shelf, then on top of the fridge and finally locked in the pantry). Limited runs are great for those who can get onboard at the get-go but those who board later are left adrift.

OotS is truely a great story with excellent continuity. That said, I'm sure when the final strip is posted and the final book is compiled and sold out, there will still be reader interest in this work. Tolkein(LotR), Homer(the Greek one), Toriyama(Dragonball), <insert other author of epics>, <repeat>, Burlew. Story is really important...and I am a stick figure art fan.

Oh yeah, people *do* like compilations...think "Harry Potter 7 disk/book box set", Peanuts comics and such. I'm sure the readership of OotS would get the word out..local Craigslist ads are easy to do...Facebook is everywhere.

Anyway, thanks Rich! OotS has kept several friends and myself enthralled and hungry for more. Any gamer I come across gets referred to this site.


Stormreaver

[The Giant]

I just got word that Paladin Blues sold out late last night, so that's the official end of the donation drive.

[Zerg Cookie]

Ordered the book. It's about time.
I now have that feeling of completeness :D

[Kurald Galain]

Is there any way to poll book ownership through people's forum profile? That might be a good way to get a more solid number for any possible reprint runs.
I'm not sure if it would. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people who post on the forums haven't bought the books; and conversely, if the majority of people who have bought the books don't post on the forums.

[Mr.Tickles]

I'm not sure if it would. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people who post on the forums haven't bought the books; and conversely, if the majority of people who have bought the books don't post on the forums.

I haven't bought the books and I'm certainly not paying more than retail for them.

[turkishproverb]

I'm not sure if it would. It wouldn't surprise me if the majority of people who post on the forums haven't bought the books; and conversely, if the majority of people who have bought the books don't post on the forums.

True, but it would still help give a hint as to the most "in demand" books.

[Mr.Tickles]

I'd pay for a pdf version of the books/strips that aren't available here for free. I just looked at ebay/amazon and, yeah, I'm not paying $100+ for a book that sold not that long ago for $15.

[Swordpriest]

PDF might well be a good option for getting some money for reprints. I'd buy the books, although at the moment there's no way I'd pay more than retail for a hard copy. A few hundred bucks for a comic book is too much for me, even for a great comic like OotS.

[Morgan Wick]

I'd pay for a pdf version of the books/strips that aren't available here for free. I just looked at ebay/amazon and, yeah, I'm not paying $100+ for a book that sold not that long ago for $15.

This might work as a solution for the Dragon strips, but otherwise it'd have to have some sort of encryption or other copy protection, to prevent from cannibalizing book sales of both print and web varieties.

An iPad app or Kindle version, on the other hand...

[King of Nowhere]

the giant said many times that he's never going to release pdf, otherwise they would start going for free on the internet in no time and he'll lose most of his income.
I'm sure there will be reprints of mosst of the books in the future, because there are a lot o fpeople wanting those.
But, just to avoid problems, I suggest to everyone intersted to buy the books as soon as they are printed. You're not saving any money by waiting. And no matter how little your financial compensation, or how great your shipping expences, I still say it's worth the price.

[Skiersaur]

My bookshelf reads -1, 0, 1, 4 (being somewhat late to the party), and I'll be glad to put the new book next to the rest. I guess I blinked and missed "No Cure" again, but if 2 and 3 ever do get reprinted, I'd be a buyer.

[Mr.Tickles]

The books are already available online for "free." I'd prefer a physical copy, but I'd settle for paying for a legit pdf. For the absolutely paranoid about piracy, look into Adobe Digital Editions or something. Or make it a password-protected website or something.

WOTC didn't stop 4E piracy by stopping the release of PDFs. People just scanned the books and as a result WOTC made no profit instead of some.

Oh well, it's your product and you're free to do what you want with it.

[MoonCat]

It's really weird, but I have every book that's been released (I just completed it with Fools for christmas), and there has been no trouble getting them, for normal price, according to anyone I know who's bought them. And it's not because they were just released ones either, I only started reading in 2007. Am I just crazy lucky? :smalleek:

[FujinAkari]

WOTC didn't stop 4E piracy by stopping the release of PDFs. People just scanned the books and as a result WOTC made no profit instead of some.

Your argument seems to be "If something isn't 100% effective at stopping a problem, then it isn't worth trying to stop."

[Mr.Tickles]

My argument is that there will be piracy anyway. If you choose between 50% of people buying the product legit and 0%, you would choose 50%. Not selling pdfs does not mean there aren't pdfs out there to begin with. There's clearly more demand here than supply, especially on the older books and the ones that have content that isn't available for free here. It's at a business's peril if they don't mitigate loss.

As I also said, they can do whatever they want with their product. The argument that not selling PDFs will mean there will be no piracy, however, is unsound.

[The Succubus]

I think the main reason The Giant wouldnt want to release PDF versions is because they would undercut the printed versions. He needs to see a certain number of books in order to make the print run worthwhile.

Besides, you wouldnt get the funky bonus strips, commentary and other neat features in a bonus version.

[factotum]

My argument is that there will be piracy anyway. If you choose between 50% of people buying the product legit and 0%, you would choose 50%.

0%? So apparently the Giant hasn't sold a single one of the print versions of his books? Well, I know for a fact that can't be true, because I've bought all of them! :smallyuk:

[Armitage]

I think the main reason The Giant wouldnt want to release PDF versions is because they would undercut the printed versions. He needs to see a certain number of books in order to make the print run worthwhile.
That's a valid point.

Yet, several people here in this thread mentioned already that they can not find some of the books or generally don't have the money to pay for the books plus shipping.
Offering the books in digital form would attract new customers. It would satisfy customers, who right now can not make a purchase because the book they are looking for is not in print. It would allow for sales that Rich is missing out on right now.

I don't know if that would offset the earning lost on printed books. I do understand that Rich doesn't want to risk destroying his working business model.



Besides, you wouldnt get the funky bonus strips, commentary and other neat features in a bonus version.
Well, that's the point: a (paid!) PDF version would only make sense if it contains the bonus material. The basic stuff one can already read online for free.

I own all the books released so far and preordered 'Dragon', yet still I would be willing to shell out a few more bucks to get digital versions of this (including the bonus material!)
As nice as the books are, we live in a digital age and I spend more and more time reading stuff on my notebook or tablet.

[Porthos]

I think the main reason The Giant wouldnt want to release PDF versions is because they would undercut the printed versions. He needs to see a certain number of books in order to make the print run worthwhile.

This is what he has said in the past as part of his reasoning of why there are no PDF versions of the printed books.

He has heard all of the pro/con arguments before. I highly doubt anyone here is going to bring up anything that he hasn't considered/heard of before. Including other companies/artists who have "successfully" released PDF versions of their material.

Look, it's his business model and it's up to him how best to implement it. He is well aware there are other ways to do things. He just chooses not to do it.

If you want to try to convince Rich to change his mind some unspecified time in the future, your best bet is to simply politely ask that they be made available one day and leave it at that. But don't bring up the pro/con arguments to him. And don't try to argue with him about it. Because I really doubt it is going to do any good. In fact, all it might do is irritate him. Which makes it less likely that there are ever PDF versions one day. :smallwink:

[Mr.Tickles]

0% as in online sales, obviously. It's a linked market, sure, but I was obviously talking about online sales. People who pirate aren't going to pay for the books anyway.

Also, those of us who don't live in the states don't like paying $30+ for shipping a $15 book. I've only ever seen OOTS books here on sale in specialty stores, not mainstream bookstores.

I suppose worrying about the market getting cannibalized by online sales might be valid... except there is no primary market for the old books now. There's no profit made on the old books now by the owners of OOTS here. The only people making money are resellers.

If the choice is "nothing" or "sell the pdfs of the old books", surely online sales would accomplish something. If the answer is that I'm going to have to wait for a year or two, well, I might not be reading this comic in two years. Cash in hand now. Possibly not later. I'm kinda interested in the bonus material, but I'm mostly interested in the prequel books that include new stuff. You know, the ones that cost $100 on Amazon.

On topic: Please find a cheaper way to ship to Canada. $12 is pretty high.

[Porthos]

I suppose worrying about the market getting cannibalized by online sales might be valid... except there is no primary market for the old books now. There's no profit made on the old books now by the owners of OOTS here. The only people making money are resellers.

Except that the old books have been reprinted before and they will probably be reprinted in the future. And online sales makes it less likey (in Rich's view at least) that the books will be reprinted in the future.

So while you may have "cash in hand now", apparently there's not enough people like you in Rich's view to make it worth changing his business model. At the moment at least.

Is this bad for you? Perhaps. But Rich never claimed that he was ever going to make 100% of his potential customers happy.

The sad fact is that some people won't be able to get what they want. The question then becomes, "Do you wait until you can get what you want? Or do you move on?"

As I said, your best bet is that you and many people like you simply ask (and I do mean simply ask) Rich to make his old books available by electronic means. If enough of you ask, then who knows what might happen?

Now I never said the bet would have a good chance of paying off. Simply that it is a better bet than repeating the same points that have been brought up over and over and over and over again. Believe it or not, you're not the first person to mention the wonders of electronic distribution of books. :smallamused:

[factotum]

Also, those of us who don't live in the states don't like paying $30+ for shipping a $15 book. I've only ever seen OOTS books here on sale in specialty stores, not mainstream bookstores.


Er, I live in the UK...just sayin'.

[Ancalagon]

Also, those of us who don't live in the states don't like paying $30+ for shipping a $15 book. I've only ever seen OOTS books here on sale in specialty stores, not mainstream bookstores.

Thanks for the generalisations. A) For most parts of the world, it's not 30+. B) you can combine several books one shipping. C) The books are worth 25,99 as they are 35,99. D) I do not come from the US and I bought all books so far.


I suppose worrying about the market getting cannibalized by online sales might be valid... except there is no primary market for the old books now. There's no profit made on the old books now by the owners of OOTS here. The only people making money are resellers.

You have an MBA or something or an own business and speak from experience or are you just rambling around?


If the choice is "nothing" or "sell the pdfs of the old books", surely online sales would accomplish something. If the answer is that I'm going to have to wait for a year or two, well, I might not be reading this comic in two years. Cash in hand now. Possibly not later. I'm kinda interested in the bonus material, but I'm mostly interested in the prequel books that include new stuff. You know, the ones that cost $100 on Amazon.

How the world works: Make your own business and you can decide about your own business. Apparently, the owner of this business here decided he can live with how things are.


On topic: Please find a cheaper way to ship to Canada. $12 is pretty high.

Mow some neighbours lawn for two hours and take your 12$. It's actually simple as that.
The shipping is as high as it is because stuff NOT sent via the expensive rates got damaged too often. Apprently, a) the world is more complex as you thought and b) people are not as stupid as you thought.
Good service has a price. That is also true for the postal service.

Apart from that about piracy: Do not advocate it. If you decide you REALLY need the books, download it, but shut up about it. If you like some artist's work, pay him as soon as you can (i.e. the stuff is available again). If you do not like an artists work enough to pay him even after you downloaded something, do not bother do read/download/steal it at all. If it's not worth 30$ of your money, it's also not worth time from your precious life!
I honestly fail to understand that whole "I play/read/listen to it because it's "free" thing"... you think something is not worth some lame money - but you think it's worth your lifetime? I feel that's priorities upside down. But that's just my personal opinion...

[FujinAkari]

0% as in online sales, obviously. It's a linked market, sure, but I was obviously talking about online sales. People who pirate aren't going to pay for the books anyway.

This seems to be the crux of your argument, and also the part I disagree with the most.

While you're right that someone who adamantly refuses to pay for things are not going to buy either, there is a rather large chunk of the readership who would not go and seek out a scanned copy, knowing it would undercut the Giant's livelihood.

However, how many of those readers have loaned their books to a friend? I have. Would I also "loan" a pdf to someone? Probably. However, a book and a pdf are not the same thing, a book can only be loaned to one person at a time and it has to be someone you know in real life, but a pdf can be loaned infinately.

It comes down to a question of ease, the current system allows pirating from those who are legitimately comfortable with stealing, there is no possible way someone who downloads a scanned copy can believe they are doing things ethically.

A pdf system allows the book, the official book, to be loaned between anyone who knows eachother online. A pdf isn't scanned in but is the official product, and so the reader doesn't get the impression of bootlegging. Anyone who thought about it undoubtably would consider getting a pdf the same as stealing, there would be a lot who simply wouldn't think about it. Being given a book from George seems a lot different than going out to some warez site and finding an illegal download.

[Lira]

On topic: Please find a cheaper way to ship to Canada. $12 is pretty high.

That reminds me: Giant, I think the shipping price for this book was entirely reasonable, thank you. (I'm Canadian too, by the way). I spend around five hours a week at work processing orders for product to be shipped across my country, across the border and occasionally to other parts of the world. I see the costs of shipping and I know that the amount for shipping these books is a perfectly fair and reasonable price.

[FujinAkari]

Also, Giant, is there any way you can stop all the fighting in the Middle East? You apparently have control over tariff rates and inter-contentental shipping expenses, so I thought I'd ask :P

[The Giant]

Also, Giant, is there any way you can stop all the fighting in the Middle East? You apparently have control over tariff rates and inter-contentental shipping expenses, so I thought I'd ask :P

Thank you, FujinAkari. This comment made me chuckle enough to diffuse the rant I was building up in my head.

Suffice to say, digital pdf downloads are not in the works at this time. My concerns are not piracy; the majority of people who are not willing to pay for content simply don't read the stuff that doesn't get posted here, and the rest, I can't stop. No, my concern is that printing is a very difficult business with very, VERY thin margins of profit compared to the amount of money invested. And those margins are mostly dictated by the economy of scale: printing 5000 copies of a book may only cost 30% less than printing 10,000, and printing 20,000 may only cost 60% more. But they all sell for the same price. So, my printing business only functions if I can sell ALL of the copies that I print, and I estimate the print run as exactly as possible.

Releasing books digitally messes with both of those needs. I can't predict how many people will buy digitally (polls are worthless), and I can't sell a paper copy to someone who has bought a digital one. If half of my predicted customers buy digital instead of paper, then the cost of each paper copy skyrockets and I can't afford to print them anymore. And contrary to what people think, not everyone wants to buy digital.

In the end, I want my books to be, well, BOOKS. I am therefore willing to sacrifice the few digital sales (and I do believe them to be relatively few, since my work is online already anyway) in order to keep my paper business in business.

Now, having answered that: This thread is not about my business model. I am not looking for business advice, and I'm not keen on people tell me I'm doing something wrong just because I'm not doing what they want me to do. Stop it.

Let's keep this thread about the new book and ordering problems/concerns with it, OK?

[Gift Jeraff]

Two Questions:
1) Was I supposed to get an email, or will that just be when it gets shipped?
2) Will there be an in-character preface? I quite enjoyed those.

[Tundar]

Ordered my copy. To the Abyss with shipment costs, there is nothing like reading OotS on paper. Beats pdf/jpg by far :)

[silversaraph]

Ordered my copy. To the Abyss with shipment costs, there is nothing like reading OotS on paper. Beats pdf/jpg by far :)

Glossy paper FTW! :smallbiggrin:

[FujinAkari]

Thank you, FujinAkari.

So snagged for my signature ^_^

On topic: Totally ordered the book too~!

[Tobz]

Yes. 14.95 to germany, so it probably will be similar/the same for the rest of continental europe.

The only annoying thing: your package can get stuck in customs, so you have to drive over and pick it up yourself (after you have shown it does not contain money/ipods/cocaine/jeans/...).

Ah, Customs... I remember when my first order (books 1+2 and game) were held up at customs for like 2 months for no reason. No to mention the thieves made me pay up like an additional 50% importfee or something.

I feel kinda bad for the people not being able to buy Paladin Blues though. I ordered 2 copies back then by mistake and have one of these still lying around here somewhere.

[darthava]

Ordered my copy. To the Abyss with shipment costs, there is nothing like reading OotS on paper. Beats pdf/jpg by far :)

Indeed. I live in the Netherlands and the shipping fees are high. I am still ordering this book. Because I really love to read Oots and I havent read any of the strips in this new book!:smallsmile:

[SPoD]

I feel kinda bad for the people not being able to buy Paladin Blues though. I ordered 2 copies back then by mistake and have one of these still lying around here somewhere.

Have you ever heard of a wonderful website where they kindly match people in your situation with poor lost souls who don't have a book? It's a magical land called eBay.

[Akabana_Shin]

Mr Giant, I have a small question. How do I do to edit the shipping address of an already-placed order? I don't see the link to do that from the order, although I already changed the shipping address via the link in the shipping address page. Does that work even if the order doesn't show the updated address?

Thanks.

Edit: Also, do I get charged in my card just by pre-ordering? Or will that only happen at release date?

[zql]

I got my copy of No Cure! I just want to point out the marvelous assistance that Amy Pike bring me on the arrangement of my orders (I bought SSaDT along with Dungeon Crawling Fools before the announcement of the missing boxes and she let me change DCF to the same envelop as NCftPB). Last time I'd ordered a book there were some problems with the mailing and she resolved it too. A good assistance makes much more easy the decision of ordering books from the extraplanar lands of Argentina.
Thanks!

[EpilepticWombat]

Pre ordered :) Though intrusive family members grouch that this exclusive limited-time-offer never-go-into-reprint thing is an unfair marketing scheme. Ahh, whatever, it's all new content, I won't complain. Maybe it'll even get here on my birthday!

[Armitage]

How do I do to edit the shipping address of an already-placed order?
Contact the user apegamer. He works the magic at Ookoodook.



Edit: Also, do I get charged in my card just by pre-ordering? Or will that only happen at release date?
Yes, you will be charged directly (ws mentioned in this thread a few times).

[NerfTW]

Contact the user apegamer. He works the magic at Ookoodook.

People really need to stop suggesting that.

Oookookdook is a company. With a web page. If you need to get in contact with them, use the "contact us" link at the bottom of the company site, not an unrelated forum's pm feature. While he may answer it, you have nobody to blame but yourself if it isn't seen, given that there's a proper channel you should be using.


I'll even provide the direct link for you here http://ookoodook.wufoo.com/forms/m7x3p9/

[Kurald Galain]

People really need to stop suggesting that.
Why? Apegamer is a nice guy who will, in my experience, certainly respond to such queries.

[FujinAkari]

Why? Apegamer is a nice guy who will, in my experience, certainly respond to such queries.

Possibly because Apegamer himself advises people to use the official email


If you'd like to combine an order (Pal Blues with Dragon Tales), then email us at [email protected]. We'll let you know if it makes sense to do in your case.

[Shardnax Saerth]

The books are already available online for "free." I'd prefer a physical copy, but I'd settle for paying for a legit pdf. For the absolutely paranoid about piracy, look into Adobe Digital Editions or something. Or make it a password-protected website or something.

WOTC didn't stop 4E piracy by stopping the release of PDFs. People just scanned the books and as a result WOTC made no profit instead of some.

Oh well, it's your product and you're free to do what you want with it.

Nothing beats owning a physical copy for me. This is the first OotS book I've ordered, I didn't want to miss my chance at it and ordered as soon as I saw the news :P.

[MoonCat]

My first OoTS book was OtOPCs, I got it from my brother as a Christmas gift, he was the one who got me hooked on OoTS in the first place.

[The Giant]

Mr Giant, I have a small question. How do I do to edit the shipping address of an already-placed order? I don't see the link to do that from the order, although I already changed the shipping address via the link in the shipping address page. Does that work even if the order doesn't show the updated address?

Thanks.

Edit: Also, do I get charged in my card just by pre-ordering? Or will that only happen at release date?

As suggested, email [email protected] with your query and Kevin will get back to you.

And yes, unfortunately the card is charged right away.

[Lissou]

Only heard about this just now (been busy in the past couple of months), ordered right away. I'm certainly glad it was still in preorders and I didn't miss it, considering there won't be more prints of it.

Can't wait to read it, Giant. Even though I won't be able to until 2012 :P (I'm having it shipped to my US address but I'm moving back to France in early May, until 2012. Still made sense to have it shipped to the US because I don't have an address in France yet. Long story).

My only disappointment is that I missed the donation. Thankfully you were able to donate a lot, so that's a relief.

[Katana_Geldar]

Got three on order, one for me and another for my two friends who also love OOTS. As we're a 4E group it does interest us more.

Worked out to be $75 AU for the books. Not bad, keep that dollar where it is, America, and I'll keep on shopping. :smallcool:

[KuH]

I'm really not sure I understand why Rich/APE are still using the archaic old way of printing a bunch of books, and then letting them go out of stock when they are sold.

I took a look on www.lulu.com for instance: it would cost around $20 per book to reprint out of stock books on demand (e.g., a batch of 100). Just send them the .pdf files and press Print. Those could be resold at $40 each or whatever profit Rich/APE are looking for: it would still be far cheaper than the price of out-of-print books on eBay.

It would also be good to have an eBook version of all of the books to put onto an iPad.

Rich - we want to give you our money. Please make it easy for us.

[Nimrod's Son]

It would also be good to have an eBook version of all of the books to put onto an iPad.

Rich - we want to give you our money. Please make it easy for us.
:smallsigh:

From just a few posts back:


[M]y concern is that printing is a very difficult business with very, VERY thin margins of profit compared to the amount of money invested. And those margins are mostly dictated by the economy of scale: printing 5000 copies of a book may only cost 30% less than printing 10,000, and printing 20,000 may only cost 60% more. But they all sell for the same price. So, my printing business only functions if I can sell ALL of the copies that I print, and I estimate the print run as exactly as possible.

Releasing books digitally messes with both of those needs. I can't predict how many people will buy digitally (polls are worthless), and I can't sell a paper copy to someone who has bought a digital one. If half of my predicted customers buy digital instead of paper, then the cost of each paper copy skyrockets and I can't afford to print them anymore. And contrary to what people think, not everyone wants to buy digital.

In the end, I want my books to be, well, BOOKS. I am therefore willing to sacrifice the few digital sales (and I do believe them to be relatively few, since my work is online already anyway) in order to keep my paper business in business.

Now, having answered that: This thread is not about my business model. I am not looking for business advice, and I'm not keen on people tell me I'm doing something wrong just because I'm not doing what they want me to do. Stop it.

Let's keep this thread about the new book and ordering problems/concerns with it, OK?

[NerfTW]

Those could be resold at $40 each or whatever profit Rich/APE are looking for: it would still be far cheaper than the price of out-of-print books on eBay.

It would also double the price of the books currently, to the point nobody would buy them.


Printing a set run is in no way "archaic" yet. Print on demand services are nowhere near being a viable method of print distribution, no matter what that site tells you. The fact that the per book price would be $20 just to make, the same as they sell for now, should tell you that.

[Lissou]

Not to mention places like Lulu usually have very specific dimensions they allow (meaning the Giant couldn't set his own) and often want to be considered the publisher, and might not offer the recycled option.

I believe the Giant would prefer to retain control over the products he offers (including price-wise. Lulu and Co charge way too much).

As for ebook files, I would love that personally, as I always try to buy a digital copy of my physical books for travel, but I understand his reasons, and it's his call to make.

[Flame of Anor]

Pre-ordered, with no annoying questions about business model!

[FujinAkari]

Off-topic: Flame of Anor, why does it say "Avatar by me" at the bottom of your posts when you don't have an avatar?

[Flame of Anor]

I don't? Hmm. I thought it only didn't show up for me. I'll have to work on that, but I'm pretty sure if you right-click -> Properties on the blank space it'll give you the URL of the actual avatar that should be displaying.

[Glen]

Hi Giant

I am sure it has probably been previously suggested so please forgive me if I am bring up something already dealt with.

I love your comic (and own all the books published to date) but tend to only visit every few months (then I can gorge myself on a large numbers on comics in one go).

I was very lucky to have visited whilst you are taking orders for the new book but even then it was only by chance I noticed the matter in the News.

Can a mailing list be established for users wanting notification of book printings?

Regards Glen

[Zevox]

I don't? Hmm. I thought it only didn't show up for me. I'll have to work on that, but I'm pretty sure if you right-click -> Properties on the blank space it'll give you the URL of the actual avatar that should be displaying.
Well, that would explain it. Your avatar is far too big. The size limit here is something like 150x150 pixels (note: I am not sure exactly, as it has been some time since I changed my avatar), and that thing says it's 876x876. You need to shrink it.

Zevox

[Flame of Anor]

Hi Giant

I am sure it has probably been previously suggested so please forgive me if I am bring up something already dealt with.

I love your comic (and own all the books published to date) but tend to only visit every few months (then I can gorge myself on a large numbers on comics in one go).

I was very lucky to have visited whilst you are taking orders for the new book but even then it was only by chance I noticed the matter in the News.

Can a mailing list be established for users wanting notification of book printings?

Regards Glen

I think you're looking for the RSS feed.


Well, that would explain it. Your avatar is far too big. The size limit here is something like 150x150 pixels (note: I am not sure exactly, as it has been some time since I changed my avatar), and that thing says it's 876x876. You need to shrink it.

Zevox

Oh, I thought it automatically resized it. I guess it must have changed in the forum reorgs, because that used to work. I'll fix it in a bit.

[silversaraph]

Can a mailing list be established for users wanting notification of book printings?


You can try ookoodooks mailing list, but It'll have other products too. Not that many of them though, so you can probably just sort through them every few weeks.

http://ookoodook.com/store/NewsletterSubscribe.shtml

[NerfTW]

I think you're looking for the RSS feed.



There is no news RSS feed.

[The Giant]

Hi Giant

I am sure it has probably been previously suggested so please forgive me if I am bring up something already dealt with.

I love your comic (and own all the books published to date) but tend to only visit every few months (then I can gorge myself on a large numbers on comics in one go).

I was very lucky to have visited whilst you are taking orders for the new book but even then it was only by chance I noticed the matter in the News.

Can a mailing list be established for users wanting notification of book printings?

Regards Glen

Not only is there the Ookoodook newsletter that was linked a few posts above mine, but there is an Ookoodook Twitter feed where new OOTS books would also be announced as they go on sale. (GITP doesn't have either of those, or an RSS feed for the News.)

[Glen]

Not only is there the Ookoodook newsletter that was linked a few posts above mine, but there is an Ookoodook Twitter feed where new OOTS books would also be announced as they go on sale. (GITP doesn't have either of those, or an RSS feed for the News.)

Thanks Giant

[NerfTW]

I can't find the original posts in this thread to quote, but remembering the discussion on absurd Amazon prices for the OOTS books, I finally found an explanation that makes far more sense (http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews) for the ones that are $1000 or more.


On the day we discovered the million dollar prices, the copy offered by bordeebook was1.270589 times the price of the copy offered by profnath. And now the bordeebook copy was 1.270589 times profnath again. So clearly at least one of the sellers was setting their price algorithmically in response to changes in the other’s price. I continued to watch carefully and the full pattern emerged.

Once a day profnath set their price to be 0.9983 times bordeebook’s price. The prices would remain close for several hours, until bordeebook “noticed” profnath’s change and elevated their price to 1.270589 times profnath’s higher price. The pattern continued perfectly for the next week.

But two questions remained. Why were they doing this, and how long would it go on before they noticed? As I amusedly watched the price rise every day, I learned that Amazon retailers are increasingly using algorithmic pricing (something Amazon itself does on a large scale), with a number of companies offering pricing algorithms/services to retailers. Both profnath and bordeebook were clearly using automatic pricing – employing algorithms that didn’t have a built-in sanity check on the prices they produced. But the two retailers were clearly employing different strategies.


Kind of neat. Explains a whole lot.

[factotum]

In that case, why was bordeebook setting his price so much higher than profnath? Surely that would just drive people to buy from the other guy... :smallconfused:

[NerfTW]

That's explained in the article.


My preferred explanation for bordeebook’s pricing is that they do not actually possess the book. Rather, they noticed that someone else listed a copy for sale, and so they put it up as well – relying on their better feedback record to attract buyers. But, of course, if someone actually orders the book, they have to get it – so they have to set their price significantly higher – say 1.27059 times higher – than the price they’d have to pay to get the book elsewhere.

[Felixaar]

Ah... only a few short weeks until the books will come to fruition... life is good :smallbiggrin:

[Zerg Cookie]

As for the mail news about new books. If you guys don't wanna get mail about all of Ookoodook's products you can just try to make a filter (I know we have them in gmail).

Something like that should work:
From: Whatever Ookoodook's newsletter address is
Doesn't Have: "Order of the Stick"
Action: Mark as spam

[Richard J.]

How is the print run for this book holding up? I've got several expensive hobbies that suck up most of my disposable income and I probably won't be able to order this one for months. If it's close to going out of print though I'd like to jump on it.

I missed Paladin Blues and War and XPs. :smallfrown: Wish I could at least put in a pre-order for a future reprint.

Actually, wouldn't pre-orders for a reprinting make sense anyway? I mean, once there were enough of them for a decently profitable print run, you could make the run and while surely some of the pre-orders would be dropped, there'd still be new orders and orders from people who waited to see if a re-print happened anyway.

Is there a downside to at least letting people put in a pre-order for a possible reprint down the road?:smallconfused:

[Lissou]

Is there a downside to at least letting people put in a pre-order for a possible reprint down the road?:smallconfused:

I would suspect that if there is a lack of demand, doing that:

a) would be a waste of time
b) would disappoint people who do pre-order when no printing occurs due to low demand

Printing isn't as simple as 1 book = c cost, n books = nxc cost. Each book costs less and less the more books are printed. If the demand is low enough, it might be totally unprofitable to print and sell the books that do get ordered.

EDIT: re-reading your post, you seem to understand the print run requires a certain amount of pre-orders, and your suggestion is to wait until there is enough demand. Not only might it never happen (and if it did happen, how many people would actually still be interested if it takes years?) but I could understand if the Giant was reluctant to start a pre-order with no release date announced whatsoever.

[Armitage]

there a downside to at least letting people put in a pre-order for a possible reprint down the road?:smallconfused:
Currently, when you pre-order on Ookedook you get charged immediately.
While that works when you know that there will be a print in x weeks time, you can't do that when you don't know when (and if) there will be enough demand/pre-orders to actually start printing.

On the other hand, pre-orders without commitment could lead to overestimating the demand. If they don't risk anything, many people might pre-order who will not actually buy that book when there is a reprint or who will have lost interest by then.

[NerfTW]

How is the print run for this book holding up? I've got several expensive hobbies that suck up most of my disposable income and I probably won't be able to order this one for months. If it's close to going out of print though I'd like to jump on it.

I missed Paladin Blues and War and XPs. :smallfrown: Wish I could at least put in a pre-order for a future reprint.

Actually, wouldn't pre-orders for a reprinting make sense anyway? I mean, once there were enough of them for a decently profitable print run, you could make the run and while surely some of the pre-orders would be dropped, there'd still be new orders and orders from people who waited to see if a re-print happened anyway.

Is there a downside to at least letting people put in a pre-order for a possible reprint down the road?:smallconfused:


There are loads of issues with this. If he charges the cards at the time of purchase, then he has to keep that money safe, pay taxes on it, etc. It's not just like "Hey, stick that couple thousand in my savings and don't touch it". There are laws and regulations you have to follow.

If he doesn't charge immediately, as noted earlier in this thread, he has to store the card information, which again, isn't as simple as saying "Here's a file with the info!". There are security precautions and audits one must follow to store that information. And the risk of a small business having those numbers stolen and being fined is far more in the "going bankrupt" category than it is for, say, a megastore like Amazon or Target.

There might not be enough demand, in which case the money would have to be returned. Again, a lot of overhead and work that is now turning absolutely no profit, and is costing you money.


And then you get the horror stories, where a book paid at the time of order takes years to be printed, to the point where customers are filing legal complaints to get their money back. This has actually happened for other early webcomics. (Actually, I believe there was a pre-order issue with the first book printed for this comic as well)