[3.P] Balance-wise, what changes if Wizards know all Wizard spells?

[Endarire]

Clerics and Druids already know all their spells. What if Wizards knew all spells that they could cast?

[Lord_Gareth]

Well, wizards spend less gold on scrolls, that's for sure. You might do better to ask what would happen if Clerics and Druids had to learn their spells like a Wizard does.

[Eronai_Jantig]

Clerics and Druids already know all their spells. What if Wizards knew all spells that they could cast?
Fluff wise it doesn't really make sense, unless you mean like they can learn spells for free and those spells are very easily available to just about anyone.

Crunchwise? It does make them stronger, but by how much? Really depends on how the DM was handling the spells to begin with. Was he making the player use the rules to a 't'? Was he letting him find most of the PHB spells easily/for normal cost or cheaper? Was he letting him find the obscure spells easy or harder/for normal cost,higher or lower?

Really it just runs into the whole Cleric/druid thing of "I have the perfect spell for what we plan on doing today!" it's certainly not at strong an upgrade as Rainbow Warsnake has when he suddenly learns all of the cleric spells, because instead of per day that issue is a per round issue. If you've played with competent Clerics and Druids, you'll be semi familiar with the vibe, most days they'll still use a standard list of good stuff, but once in awhile they'll swap out because they know they're going to be facing a certain kind of enemy or challenge that day.

So better? Yeah, sure, not that there aren't Wizard builds that abuse stuff like Flesh to Salt or Wall of Salt to get the money to buy almost all the spells anyway, but for your average Wizard, it is certainly an upgrade, but it could only be a marginal upgrade, or it could be a huge upgrade if you DM is a TOTAL JERK AND NEVER GIVES YOU ANY SPELLS EVER.

tl;dr better, how much depends on gametype/dm

[Eric Tolle]

It makes them even more ridiculously strong compared to non-spellcasters. In fact, it puts them at the level of your standard "fighter vs. wizard" debate, where wizards somehow always have exactly the right spells for any occasion.

Frankly, one of the worst things 3.X did was make it so wizards could buy spells. When wizards had to rely on random selection or begging for a trade, mages had to make do with whatever they had, not simply assume they had the right spell for the task.

[Doc Roc]

Balance wise? Fighter curls into a ball and screams until it coughs blood.

[Radar]

Balance wise? Fighter curls into a ball and screams until it coughs blood.
And then someone points out a simple feat: Uncanny Forethought.
It's like Anyspell only better. :smallbiggrin:

edit: it is also worth mentioning, that wizard's spell list is much broader then that of a cleric or druid and those spells tend to be more versatile and powerful.

[Haarkla]

Clerics and Druids already know all their spells. What if Wizards knew all spells that they could cast?
Balancewise, probably not that much.

Flavourwise, I think it would have very negative results. One of the primary motivations for wizard adventurers is searching out hidden arcane lore.

I think the wizard getting two free spells every time he gains a level is too much. Wizards should have to search for spells, not get them handed on a plate.

I don't think buying spells is too much of a problem, as DM I can always control what is available.

[Doc Roc]

And then someone points out a simple feat: Uncanny Forethought.
It's like Anyspell only better. :smallbiggrin:

edit: it is also worth mentioning, that wizard's spell list is much broader then that of a cleric or druid and those spells tend to be more versatile and powerful.

Uncanny does have some downsides, though, unlike this proposal. And Uncanny is made far WORSE by this proposal, a situation I thought impossible.

[Ravens_cry]

I like to fluff wizards as Arcane Philosophers, Magical Scientists, the hunt for spells been as much about a thirst for knowledge as power. If I know every spell, what's the fun of copying a defeated arcanist's spell book, or perusing some great, extraplaner library?
Crunch wise, as other have pointed out, it depends on how much spells you normally give them. If they get the 2 free ones and no others, this is a HUGE difference. If you allow every scroll they want to copy from every splat book already, then it saves them some coin but not much else.
Personally, I wouldn't want it in my game, even as a player.

[Soren Hero]

i suspect wizards would be too overpowered if they worked like archivists, am i right? for example, the ability to learn any spell (divine/arcane)? if i allow archivists in my game, i figure this would be a nice alternate class feature for wizards too