Order of the Stick 4E

[Katana_Geldar]

Okay, we've done this before but now it's official I'd like to re-open the debate for Order of the Stick in 4th edition.

The most interesting case I think is Haley, as the only way I have mnanaged to find to create her is if you make her an elf or half-elf, as she can take the feat tree-top sniper to sneak attack with a longbow.

So, any speculation? Jokes? Stat-blocs?

I have to say that I did make a sort of good guess a while ago, when I wanted the order to encounter a party using 4E rules.

[The Pilgrim]

Haley uses a Longbow?

[TimelordSimone]

I guess 4E Haley will end up fighting with a rapier or something.

[Kurald Galain]

Okay, we've done this before but now it's official I'd like to re-open the debate for Order of the Stick in 4th edition.
I'm not sure what there is to debate. The Order has various abilities that simply don't exist in 4E, including but not limited to Durkon's Might Of Thor, Elan's Suggestion and illusions, Belkar's cat animal companion, Vaarsuvius's invisibility and explosive runes, and Haley's evasion and uncanny dodge.

[NerfTW]

I'm not sure what there is to debate. The Order has various abilities that simply don't exist in 4E, including but not limited to Durkon's Might Of Thor, Elan's Suggestion and illusions, Belkar's cat animal companion, Vaarsuvius's invisibility and explosive runes, and Haley's evasion and uncanny dodge.

And so the debate would be "what do you think they'll have instead in the book?"

You did see the announcement, right?

[hamishspence]

I'm not sure what there is to debate. The Order has various abilities that simply don't exist in 4E, including but not limited to Durkon's Might Of Thor, Elan's Suggestion and illusions, Belkar's cat animal companion, Vaarsuvius's invisibility and explosive runes, and Haley's evasion and uncanny dodge.

You can have a medium-sized cat animal companion though (Martial Power's beastmaster ranger build).

Wasn't there a basic 4E Vaarsuvius build a while back?

[the_tick_rules]

It'd take years for the funny stuff about 4E to be learned to make fun off. Most of us like the D&D jokes because we have lived them and played them and thought about them long before we saw them in the comic. Not so in 4E for many people.

[Porthos]

It'd take years for the funny stuff about 4E to be leanred to make fun off. Most of us like the D&D jokes because we have lived them and played them and thought about them long before we saw them in the comic. Not so in 4E for many people.

Even if I accepted what you say as true, and I don't, I would point out the 4E has been out now for almost three years. Plenty of time for cliches to be discovered and exploited. :smallwink:

Besides, I would think a great deal of the humor is going to come from the so-called 3.5E/4E war. And that has plenty of material to mock mine. :smalltongue:

EDIT:::

I would also point out that OotS itself started in October 2003. 3e was introduced in May/June 2000. So we're only talking about a difference of a few months here (just under three years versus just over three years).

[Mando Knight]

It'd take years for the funny stuff about 4E to be leanred to make fun off. Most of us like the D&D jokes because we have lived them and played them and thought about them long before we saw them in the comic. Not so in 4E for many people.

The system's matured enough that if a guy like Rich Burlew wrote a webcomic for it, there would be jokes. Do remember that 3.X is not really old-school yet (read: AD&D), and the first strip was written around the time of the release of 3.5. At this point, though, most of the comic is about story and such rather than random rules gags.

[KingFlameHawk]

I can definatly see a joke about class balancing being brought up. Specifically about the changes in class strength between fighters (became stronger) and wizards (became weaker). I can see 3.5 ed Roy being envious of 4th Roy and the opposite for V. For Haley maybe she will use a crossbow or shurikan, they might homerule that she can use a longbow but that would lose a few opportunites for jokes. Also the lack of the Dashing swordsman (if Elan has it in that comic) in 4th ed.

Some basic stats, based on what I know about them and their history (I think they are all in the double digits level wise so they all get a paragon path)

Roy
Race: Human
Class: Fighter
Build: Great Weapon
Options: Two-handed Talent, Combat Superiority
Paragon Path: Swordmaster
Feats: Fighter Weapon Specialization, ...

Elan
Race: Human
Class: Bard
Build: Valorous Bard
Options: Virtue of Valor
Paragon Path: War Chanter or for a better joke Voice of Thunder
Feats: Student of the sword and Sneak of shadows (best way I can think of duplicating Dashing Swordsman)

Haley
Race: Human
Class: Rogue
Build: Aerialist Rogue
Options: Artful Dodger
Paragon Path: Cat Burglar

Belkar
Race: Halfling
Class: Ranger
Build: Two-blade Ranger
Options: Two-Blade Fighting Style
Paragon Path: StormWarden
Feats: Berserker's Fury

Durkon
Race: Dwarf
Class: Cleric
Build: Battle Cleric
Paragon Path: Warpriest

V
Race: Eladrin
Class: Wizard
Build: War Wizard
Options: Staff of Defense
Paragon Path: Spellstorm Mage

[Katana_Geldar]

Elan's going to be the most interesting as while he's more than halfway competant, he loses his Perform skill.

There's also Roy's ability to mark, healing surges (already touched on), action points, alignment (affects everyone but Roy, Belkar and Durkon) and maybe a few jokes about the Essentials backlash and lack of schools.
There's also the fact that monsters are constructed very different from players (my argument for my players to prevent PvP) as well as the different types, like minions. Monsters that die just after an attack roll wil confuse and infuriate Belkar.

[Porthos]

Also the lack of the Dashing swordsman (if Elan has it in that comic) in 4th ed.

Dashing Swordsman wasn't part of the Dragon Continuity. Doesn't mean it might not be addressed for the sake of a joke, of course. :smallwink:

[fibonacciseries]

I'm not sure what there is to debate. The Order has various abilities that simply don't exist in 4E, including but not limited to Durkon's Might Of Thor, Elan's Suggestion and illusions, Belkar's cat animal companion, Vaarsuvius's invisibility and explosive runes, and Haley's evasion and uncanny dodge.

Technically, cats aren't valid animal companions in 3.5 either, but I digress.
(The list of possible animal companions for a ranger is badger, camel, dire rat,
dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake
(Small or Medium viper), or wolf.)

[faustin]

{scrubbed}

[Katana_Geldar]

Hey! None of that talk here!

[Cerlis]

{scrubbed the original, scrub the quote}


considering that wont happen, and this whole topic is brought on by the fact that the party will face an invasion by 4.0 versions of themselves which we wont even see in the actual comic...

....there is nothing to worry about.

and yes, i think its best to think of what they would be like if the mindset of each character who grew up in 4.0. such as haley couldnt be a long range rogue, so she'd probably be a dexterous rogue. Perhaps 4.0 Elan will be kicking 3.5's butt since he is better at combat and more balanced, but since hes still stupid elan he will be easily tricked by 3.5 elans illusion, since they dont even have those in 4.0 i think.

all very interesting.

[Porthos]

{scrubbed the original, scrub the quote}

So I'm going to presume that you are a "no" on the new book then. :smallwink:

[Katana_Geldar]

Will they have Edition wars jokes? Which member of the Order of the Stick would object most to their well-balanced counterparts?

My money is on Belkar, he loves to Munchkin.

[SPoD]

Will they have Edition wars jokes? Which member of the Order of the Stick would object most to their well-balanced counterparts?

My money is on Belkar, he loves to Munchkin.

Or, would the two Belkars join forcers and go on a killing rampage regardless of edition, proving that everyone can all just get along (when committing horrific acts of violence)?

I think V will object most, seeing as she's giving up Ultimate Power for balanced abilities.

[Katana_Geldar]

What if V is an Essentials Mage? That could be interesting.

[SPoD]

What if V is an Essentials Mage? That could be interesting.

Why? I don't have Essentials, what would that imply?

[Katana_Geldar]

Well, V would have schools but they would be significantly reduced. I don't know Essentials that well, but I think there's only three now.

[KingFlameHawk]

Well, V would have schools but they would be significantly reduced. I don't know Essentials that well, but I think there's only three now.

There are four right now:
Enchantment
Evocation
Illusion
Pyromancy

I have used them befor and really (to me at least) they are little diferent then the builds of the regular wizard:
Enchantment - Control
Evocation - War
Illusion - Illusion
Pyromancy - War with a focus on fire spells

the real difference is that instead of an implement mastery you can choose to get to be an apprentice mage with different benefits so wether or not the 4.0 V is a wizard or a mage I don't think there would be any difference to 3.5 V's reaction to 4.0, general dislike I would imagine.

[tcrudisi]

I'm not sure what there is to debate. The Order has various abilities that simply don't exist in 4E, including but not limited to Durkon's Might Of Thor, Elan's Suggestion and illusions, Belkar's cat animal companion, Vaarsuvius's invisibility and explosive runes, and Haley's evasion and uncanny dodge.

Suggestion is simply a dominate effect. Illusions still exist. Belkar's cat animal companion is actually legal in 4e and not in 3.5 (if what a previous poster said was true). Invisibility is still something wizards can cast (at level 6). Evasion is a PHB1 feat. Uncanny Dodge is replaceable by "Eyes in the Back of Your Head", a paragon feat. Even Dashing Swordsman is easily replaced with Daring Blade.

I can't figure out how to do Explosive Runes (sadly). I would comment more on Might of Thor, but I have no idea what that is, probably because I avoided clerics in 3.5. Also, my 20 second google-fu was not strong enough to find it.

Admittedly, there would be some problems, but most of what you listed are not among them.

[Katana_Geldar]

Durkon has an interesting thing about alignment. I think it's settled that Thor is Chaotic Good, right? That would be Good in 4E which makes him Good as Divine characters have to have the same alignment as their deities, at least for Paladins and clerics.

[KingFlameHawk]

I can't figure out how to do Explosive Runes (sadly). I would comment more on Might of Thor, but I have no idea what that is, probably because I avoided clerics in 3.5. Also, my 20 second google-fu was not strong enough to find it.

There is a power that is kind of like Might of Thor, it is called Righteous Might. A big problem is that it is a level 25 power so I doubt Durkon would have it.
Righteous Might
Divine power wells up within you, and you seem to tower over your god’s enemies.

Daily Divine, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon

Effect: Until the end of the encounter, your reach increases by 1, your melee attacks deal 1d6 extra damage, and you gain a +1 power bonus to speed and a +2 power bonus to AC. Then make the following attack.

Target: One creature

Attack: Strength vs. AC

Hit: 4[W] + Strength modifier damage.

[Katana_Geldar]

Thor's Might sounds very much like a Domain Specific Diety power...or a power specific to a Thor-based homebrew Paragon path. I could see Thor's Might as a daily, just not as awesome as that epic power.

[Mando Knight]

Thor's Might sounds very much like a Domain Specific Diety power...or a power specific to a Thor-based homebrew Paragon path. I could see Thor's Might as a daily, just not as awesome as that epic power.

The "Thor's X" thing comes from the tendency of divine spellcasters to name their spells after their patron deity, especially the flashier ones like Righteous Might.

[Red XIV]

I don't see why the lack of Dashing Swordsman in 4E is worth mentioning, given that it doesn't actually exist in 3.5 either. It's from a fictitious 3rd-party sourcebook, after all.

[Dalek-K]

Technically, cats aren't valid animal companions in 3.5 either, but I digress.
(The list of possible animal companions for a ranger is badger, camel, dire rat,
dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake
(Small or Medium viper), or wolf.)

Actually Belkar is pretty much already in 4th edition.... Facts..

Has cat animal companion (4e)
Doesn't cast spells (4e)
Really awesome 2 weapon fighting (3.5/4e)
Has a dabble in barbarian but never actually uses "rage" (4e multiclassing)

Yeah with some wisdom he can cast from scrolls but with the right skill check (nature) a ranger can cast rituals from a scroll...


EDIT: Also in 4e the companions can be anything but they come in "categories" so you could have a lion or panther as your cat companion... as well as a house cat really... They go by the cat category not what they actually are.

:D

[rekuu]

In issue #1, we explore what exactly happen when editions change over. Elan's new armor appeared on him instantly, as did his extra skill points. Explained in a later comic, the teleport spell changed from one school into another, and V could no longer cast it.

So, if OotS was to change to 4.0, they characters would loose the powers that no longer exist. Their past deeds would continue to have existed, and there would be no continuity issues. Sure would be weird though.

I don't know much about 4.0, it could be funny if some monster or another that no longer exists was about to kill the party and vanished. =0

[Dalek-K]

That would be horrible... Although might be funny like the Wizard from the Coast sending lawyers to gather the drow and other monsters :P