Avengers question in 4e

[Vitruviansquid]

I've been aching to roll a Pursuing Avenger in 4e, only... one thing about this class doesn't make any sense to me. I assume I'm supposed to be gunning for their artillery and other ranged attackers to bog them down and make it a losing proposition for them to run away...

But what's to keep his soldier/brute buddies from turning around and laying me out? As well as denying me of my oath of enmity reroll? I think I have a lot of tools to get into melee with enemies who don't want to be in melee, but at the end of the day, won't I need a defender-heavy team to keep putting out striker-level damage?

Anyone have any hints or personal experiences regarding my dilemma?

[serok42]

You just need to rely on the rest of your team mates to keep the others occupied.

When I was playing an avenger regularly my tactics were always to grab a target (normally who I perceived as the boss or the biggest threat) and isolate him from his buddies (as a pursuit you should have a few options to do this) kill him as quickly as possible, rinse and repeat.

It normally worked out fairly well. As an avenger you should have fairly decent defenses.

[Talbot]

First, you'll need your team to back you up. 4e especially is a co-operative game.

You'll want something like:

Human Ranger (mostly ranged powers, using a longbow)
Human Barbarian (with a focus on lightning/storm related powers when possible, I recommend a hammer for weapon)
A War-Forged Sorc for blasting.

There are many other options, but these are the "classic" ones. After that, you just need to get your group together and attack. But make sure you win Initiative so you can start the battle by screaming "Avengers Assemble!"


Yes, I just went that far for that crappy of a joke. I could't help myself.

[Talyn]

Ok, "Avengers Assemble" is hilarious.

However, you REALLY want a fighter and/or a swordmage to run up and get enemy attention. Fighters (who can multi-mark and can be very controller-y) and Swordmages (who can teleport marked enemies who try to get away from them) have the most synergy with Avengers, but any defender worth their salt will keep the heavy hitters on THEM and a few squares away from where you and your victim are duking it out.

Your defenses are actually quite good despite your lack of armor, so you can survive a round or two with a brute or soldier on you unless you get very, very unlucky.

Oh, and controllers that can consistently slow or immobilize (wizards and psions, if I recall correctly, but I'm not really up on my 4e controllers) are avenger's best friends - you get to jump on anyone who doesn't get slowed/immobilized so they can't escape, and all their slowed/immobilized allies can't come to help them. It's a blast.

[Gillric]

I would actually recommend a well built paladin as well for the defender. One that is well built can mass mark like crazy and has better punishment than the fighter.

The controller extras for the fighter are an excellent benefit though.

As far as a controller, most controllers can function at what you need depending on how they are built.

An avenger is wonderful as it not only puts out good damage but has very good defenses as well.

[Bagelz]

a mobile defender will help a lot, but rember they can only pin down so many targets. You'll have to play smart and try not to get flanked. If you get into trouble, let up and move next to/behind your defender.

defenders are melee too, so you should probably try to stay near them if possible anyway.

[Yakk]

There is a ... level 2? ... utility power that lets you change who your oath target is.

You can make it a bad idea to get near you as an avenger: many avenger powers are about exactly that. Some let you teleport your enemy to wherever you want (say, behind friendly lines), others harm enemies who try to attack you.

But you still need your group to help you out.

(By epic, this isn't true -- you can surround yourself with difficult terrain, get free OAs on anyone who isn't your enemy who moves adjacent to you, etc etc -- make it as bad an idea to try to shut you down as it is to let you get away with it)

[Suedars]

As a Pursuit Avenger you have a host of attacks and utilities that give shifts, teleports, and other bonuses to movement (Distracting Flare making you invisible for a move for example). You can use those to reposition yourself and avoid being denied your Oath reroll. Fury's Advance (level 3 encounter) can give you a minor action attack that slides your enemy and lets you shift, helping set up a big standard action attack.

As far as things coming and beating on you, it's not that bad. Avengers are more durable than most strikers, and if built for it can reach Defender level defenses. Just picking up Unarmored Agility (I think that's the name) from PHB3 should give you one of the best ACs in the party. 1 Brute peeling off to attack you is no big deal (especially if they aren't from newer sourcebooks, since Brutes used to have a lower chance to hit than other enemy types). If 3 are peeling off and attacking you every round, make sure your defender is doing his job, and maybe talk to your GM about believable tactics for enemies if they're soaking up mark punishment every round to attack you.

A well built Avenger shouldn't need too much support from their Defender. They're one of the most self sufficient classes in the game. Oath is a strong enough striker feature that you can afford to devote some resources to defense and mobility.

[zorba1994]

I'm going to echo what other people are saying: Avengers have very high defenses for strikers and can hold their own just fine in melee with a brute for a few rounds. IMO, Avengers work best sort of as an off-tank, peeling a single enemy off the battle and taking them into a corner to wail on them. Additionally, they can come in to rescue weaker AC allies (sorcerer, wizard, etc) by sliding the monster trying to attack them.

[Sol]

There's several ways to prevent a swarm of mobs from granting you your oath rerolls - divine rage, the intimidate utility 6 power (everybody move!), no respite 7e, sacred arena 23e all move all creatures other than your oath target away before you attack.

9d Blade of Repulsion lets you slide any creature that ends its turn adjacent to you 3 squares as a free action.

13e Avenger's Demand lets you pull your oath target 5 squares to a square adjacent to you before you attack it, and then knock it 2 squares after the attack and shift adjacent to it again.

19d Stroke of Doom lets you pull your oath target 5 squares before knocking it silly.

I'm sure i'm missing more than half of them, but you get the idea.

In addition, between slashing storm, punishing radiance, and font of radiance, at epic, mobs really shouldn't want to be anywhere near you or your target.

If you're really worried about it, though, maybe try a unity avenger? Defenses aren't any higher, but you can yoink mobs into position with bond of censure, stand adjacent to your defender the whole time, knocking any other mobs that want to join the fun away, and get (and give) bonuses for focus-firing mobs down one at a time.