A Slightly Irregular Versus Thread

[Xefas]

Not that irregular is a bad thing. First off, to cover the bullet-points in that sticky you should have all already read (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70661), so that it's certain that I'm 100% serious.



* The first post should not be a one liner, or other very short introduction. It should be at least a page long, detailing the specifics of the discussion including the reason you are asking.
Check


* The thread should be based on a genuine argument that has cropped up through way of a discussion on this board or amongst your friends.
I hope this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10552199) counts.


* It should be a genuine, non humourous, match up.
I'm not sure what constitutes "genuine" or "humorous", but I'm hoping this display of effort will yield results of the "genuine" variety.


* It should be media related (note that we have other forums that may be more appropriate as well).
Check.


* The thread should be well fleshed out and carefully considered.
Check


* It should not be something 'spur of the moment', please consider it carefully, take the time to do it properly and not make one because 'everyone else is doing it, I want one too' or 'that one already had a thread, so I made this one'.
Check


* The opening post should be serious and likely to lead to a serious discussion.
It is my utmost intention.

Now, with that out of the way, the actual scenario.

An omnipotent, but ultimately irrelevant, force creates a finite plane of existence with physical laws, and a day-night cycle, identical to modern-day real-life Earth. Inside this plane, there is a featureless, though solid, surface with an open-air stadium and two separate training complexes. Each complex is equipped with a vast array of training equipment, sleeping quarters, provisions, and a musical library containing a copy of every song that exists in some capacity on modern-day real-life Earth's Youtube.

The omnipotent force then proceeds to abduct Khorne (http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Khorne), of the Warhammer 40,000 universe, and alters him in the following two ways. Firstly, he is consigned to a physical, roughly humanoid form, capable of being perceived and communicated with by other beings in the plane. Secondly, he is endowed with an inexplicable drive to claim official victory in the following challenge to the exclusion of all other pursuits.

He then abducts Master Chief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Chief_%28Halo%29), of the Halo universe, circa some point in the middle of Halo 3. He is similarly endowed with an inexplicable drive to claim official victory in the following challenge to the exclusion of all other pursuits.

The omnipotent force then explains the challenge to them. In exactly six months, by modern-day real-life Earth's judgment of time, there will be a choreographed dance competition. Khorne and Master Chief will serve as team coaches, choosing music from the available library and training their team members from an available pool (see below). The routine must last between 2 and 5 minutes.

The omnipotent force has transported Agent Smith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_smith), Adult Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link_%28The_Legend_of_Zelda%29) (circa Ocarina of Time), and Spike Spiegel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Spiegel) to the plane to serve as judges for the competition. They are free to judge by whatever rubric they choose, with the victor being decided by majority vote.

The available pool of talent is drawn from the following:
-The Main Characters of Firefly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28TV_series%29#Main_characters)
-The First Season of Pokemon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon:_Indigo_League_episodes)
-The Male Characters Present in Soul Calibur 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_%28series%29#Featured_characters)
-Anyone from the eleven feature-length Pixar films (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pixar_films)

Teams must be composed of exactly 5 members. There may be no duplicate picks. The coaches are endowed with full and perfect knowledge of all concerned prospective talent before choosing. Picks are made simultaneously, with disagreements decided by random number generator.

All judges and participants that would, for some reason, be incapable of existing within Earth's standard physics are omnipotently endowed with the capacity to survive unhindered.

Judges and participants are not inherently endowed with a drive to succeed at the challenge, though they intrinsically understand that their participation is required for them to be returned whence they came. Motivating otherwise uninterested judges or team members is part of the challenge.

Coaches, judges, and participants arrive entirely naked, with absolutely no items or equipment not obtained from the new plane itself. Team uniforms of the coaches' design are provided.

So, without further ado, I open the first inter-franchise dance off competition to the playground. What characters are picked, what music is used, and who ultimately wins and why?

Addendum I: No one is allowed to harm the Judges, and the Judges aren't allowed to harm the contestants or coaches. Contestants or coaches harming other contestants or coaches is strictly not allowed unless it happens as part of some kind of brutal foe-maiming dance routine. In which case the afflicted are regenerated afterward.

[Eldan]

In my opinion? Whoever gets Malcolm Reynolds wins. No one else on the list can even remotely compete.

[Fri]

there's a lack of rhyme or reason on the contestant's choice. Even in contests like this, there should be reason on why they should fight.

For instance. Master Chief vs Samus Aran in a pie eating contest makes more sense than this competition, because we can see why we put them in a fight, they're both powered armored protagonist of a super popular video game franchise.

Or Luke Skywalker vs Paul Muad'dib in a podrace. There's also rhyme on why you put them together.

Even Songoku vs Superman in a sing-off might make more sense.

You shouldn't just pick people randomly. Or if there's rhyme or reason in your contestant choosing, I can't see it.

[MoelVermillion]

Raphael from Soul Calibur would be a pretty valuable team member to who ever gets him. His love of dance is quite well documented (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkjZxLiaje4#t=1m18s) (only need to watch the first five or so seconds), as a fencer he is already very graceful and trained to do precise footwork and he was born in the same country ballet was born in at most likely roughly the same time. He is also seems to be a very ambitious person who doesn't particularly like losing.

I feel from what I know of Khorne and Master Chief that of the two of them MC might be more inclined to pick a classical style of dance so Raphael would probably function better on MC's team than Khorne's team. I think though that he could be a valuable member on either team.

EDIT: I mean look at him go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnGrS4j6luY)

[Temotei]

Buzz Lightyear in Spanish mode would rock the Salsa. :smallcool:

[Lord_Gareth]

I think the first question we must ask has already been partially addressed: what song and/or genre will each team be using? Everything else flows directly from this.

[MoelVermillion]

I feel like I should flesh out my opinions on the rest of the Soul Calibur 2 male cast.

Voldo: Yes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOwZAsMOYjo&feature=related) Yes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq0gvaVyHc0&feature=related) Yes. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JG4BpAY7A4&feature=related)

Maxi: I actually never remember much about his character; he seems pretty graceful but I have trouble saying much else.

Nightmare: Well I guess if Khorne went for a particular "evil-hatred" kind of team he might fit in but I don't think he displayed any particularly talents that would make him worth recruiting past that.

Astaroth: Largely the same as Nightmare, he looks scary and evil but I don't think he ever displays anything that would distinguish him as a particularly good dancer.

Cervantes: As far as I can tell Cervantes does one thing and only one thing... act like the worlds most over the top pirate. Assuming that one team picks a pirate themed musical (Raphael could play the hero!) he would be a good pick, otherwise he is largely just going to be a hammy evil pirate in your ballet routine.

Kilik: Graceful, strong and very disciplined, he would definitely be fit and determined enough to become an excellent dancer for which ever side he ended up on.

Yun-Seong: Well he is fit, strong and determined but... from everything I remember about him he lacks discipline. He could end up as a loose cannon on your team and there are probably better picks.

Yoshimitsu: I think he could work pretty well as a dancer, he can be graceful and with his unorthodox moveset it is clear that he has no trouble making a fool of himself and still being effective. Hes a bit of a goofball though so he might not work in every dance.

Mitsirugi: Meh once again hes probably physical up to the task and would be able to learn a dance routine you showed him but he probably wouldn't be that into it and you could pick someone better.

That is all the male cast members I can remember off the top of my head, it is possible that I've missed someone.

I'm not going to include any bonus characters (Link, Spawn, Heihachi, Assassin, Beserker) in this analysis because they're not in every version of the game. I'm not including charade because I don't think Charade even has a gender.

[Wargor]

Khorne would obviously pick something by Manowar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ0sW7KOFhU). :smallwink:

[profitofrage]

After some thought the answer came to me.

Master chief would win, this is due to Khorne being unable to Dance in a Fashion that would win.
Khorne is the representation of murder, hate and blood. striving for perfection is something that directly harms him due to it being Slanesh's domain (his polar opposite)
Although he would be able to dance, his energies and efforts would never allow him to do anything that wouldnt push for the murder hate or death of said enemy. He could attempt to Dance, but would definably fail. Since rather then practising dance moves (towards perfection) hed be to busy getting frustrated at his loss and wanting to kill all involved.

also
For those who wish to argue that Khorne can strive for perfection (such as the perfect warrior) He likes perfect warriors because of the tendancies towards his energies they show, i.e striving to be perfect isnt what he likes..its that they can slaughter MANY more then most others.

[Wargor]

I wouldn't say Slaanesh is exactly about perfection, he's about excess. That can be striving to become the best through excessive practise, but it's not exclusive to him. After-all, Nurgle is trying to make the perfect disease.

[Lord_Gareth]

After some thought the answer came to me.

Master chief would win, this is due to Khorne being unable to Dance in a Fashion that would win.
Khorne is the representation of murder, hate and blood. striving for perfection is something that directly harms him due to it being Slanesh's domain (his polar opposite)
Although he would be able to dance, his energies and efforts would never allow him to do anything that wouldnt push for the murder hate or death of said enemy. He could attempt to Dance, but would definably fail. Since rather then practising dance moves (towards perfection) hed be to busy getting frustrated at his loss and wanting to kill all involved.

also
For those who wish to argue that Khorne can strive for perfection (such as the perfect warrior) He likes perfect warriors because of the tendancies towards his energies they show, i.e striving to be perfect isnt what he likes..its that they can slaughter MANY more then most others.

I see no rule preventing Khorne from designing a dance that involves the death of the other team.

[Eldan]

Can he at least juggle weaponry that is lethal in an over-the-top style?

I mean, it's not a Khorne dance if you aren't juggling something that really wouldn't need chainsaw parts strapped to it.

[MoelVermillion]

After some thought the answer came to me.

Master chief would win, this is due to Khorne being unable to Dance in a Fashion that would win.
Khorne is the representation of murder, hate and blood. striving for perfection is something that directly harms him due to it being Slanesh's domain (his polar opposite)


Like all forms of art dance can be used as a way to express raw feeling/emotion. I see no reason why Khorne cannot create an interpretive dance designed to express his raw hatred and pick the five most vile murderers available to be his dancers.

[Wargor]

If only Kharn (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Kharn)was allowed to be picked, he'd show these guys how a real man dances, and have a smile on his face helmet the entire time. :smalltongue:

[Trazoi]

Since Link was also in Soul Calibur 2, does that mean he gets to perform and judge at the same time? That hardly seems fair. Are we assuming that bonus characters in Soul Calibur 2 don't count, or are we assuming that the Link in Soul Calibur 2 is a different Link from the one in Ocarina of Time?

[profitofrage]

Its not that Khorne cant dance, its that he couldnt really strive to perfect it..since that would be going to excess. I suppose the question would be is dancing JUST good enough to beat MC, not considered excess?
Because then considering hes raw power incarnate he would just win via the raw power of his head thrashing.

[Eldan]

I don't see what any kind of chaos god has to do with perfection, really. It doesn't seem to be what they do. They want a change of the status quo, but not necessarily an improvement. What they offer is more of a kind of trade-off, sacrificing parts of yourself to work towards an extreme.

[profitofrage]

Slanesh is all about perfection and excess.
It is slanesh you sell your soul to to make the perfect painting.
It is Slanesh you sell your soul to to commit the perfect murder.
It is Slanesh you sell your soul to to have the perfect form.

Indeed Slanesh causes all those who look upon him to go mad due to the sheer perfect beauty and tormenting form he takes upon himself.

(i say him because its easier, since really Slanesh is genderless.)

[MoelVermillion]

Its not that Khorne cant dance, its that he couldnt really strive to perfect it..since that would be going to excess. I suppose the question would be is dancing JUST good enough to beat MC, not considered excess?
Because then considering hes raw power incarnate he would just win via the raw power of his head thrashing.

Just enough to scrape over the line is not excess at all, its closer to being barely adequate so hes allowed to do it. Powerful head thrashing however will not carry him over the line because as far as I can tell he is not allowed to dance himself.

[profitofrage]

If he cannot dance himself...then he will gift whomever is dancing the awesome head thrashing capabilities...there hair growing long and dripping with blood all the time...each spin ushering in the howls of a thousand mouths crying out in pain.

[Dogmantra]

I feel like Link has an unfair advantage in this competition, being both a judge and available to participate (he was a character in the Gamecube version of Soul Calibur 2).

[Xefas]

I feel like Link has an unfair advantage in this competition, being both a judge and available to participate (he was a character in the Gamecube version of Soul Calibur 2).

To be fair, Link's past record for meeting other (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0XJ49mdh_c) Links (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU1fmecWUH8&feature=related) has been far from peaceable. Although, if you think it'd be unfair, I could make an amendment. Either swapping Link as a judge, or extended the "no duplicate" rule to cover duplicates of the Judges as well.

[Moff Chumley]

Really, I think it comes down to the music. I can't foresee MC having particularly good music taste, but nothing screams "slaughter of the innocent" like some good ol' Huoratron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWh7m1bA1p0), so I'd grant an edge to Khorne purely on this basis.

Xefas, my hat off to you. This thread made my day. :smallbiggrin:

[Lord Magtok]

Really, I think it comes down to the music. I can't foresee MC having particularly good music taste, but nothing screams "slaughter of the innocent" like some good ol' Huoratron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWh7m1bA1p0), so I'd grant an edge to Khorne purely on this basis.

This. The Master Chief was kidnapped at the age of six or something, and turned into a terribly cyborg killing machine by the government. I don't think he listened to much music, beyond some military bugles and space-patriotism ballads.

[Nibleswick]

But what about the annual Spaceman's Ball, and if he's a officer he's bound to have learned to waltz at some point.

[Kris Strife]

He's an enlisted man, judging by his title.

[drakir_nosslin]

First off; Khorne will do everything he can to win, that's established in the rules, so that won't be a problem. But I have a hard time seeing either him or MC as dancers, or choreographers, so I think that the victor will be the one that can bribe the judges. Or recruit someone who can dance and have them fix everything.

[Eldan]

If it comes down to bribery...

One's a chaos god. The other's a dude in a suit of armour.

[The_JJ]

...

...

...

*gapes*

Ooookay. Well, novelization!Chief is both sane and intelligent, and quite good at the whole 'driven' bit, and a leader. So he's probably got the skills to pump himself up to adequate choreographer. Based on compatibility with the judges, I think he takes Smith by way of being ever so slightly robotic and not dirty nasty crush kill maim virus. However this is assuming Matrix!Smith not Sequels!Smith so hell, call it a toss up.

I think he could also bag Link more by virtue of... not doing whatever Khorne would in this situation. Hooray protagonists. I'm not so sure about this Spike guy, but again I imagine simple not being Khorne doing Khorney things will go a long way for him.

Dancer wise... I can see him picking up Eve, since he's got that female AI thing down pat. And we know Eve's a good dancer.

He won't be able to work with Mal at all- he's basically Alliance Unleaded. Buck, yes. Mal, no.

This one might come down to how well 117 can work with River. I think they've both got common ground to build on, and this is middle of Halo Three so he's just working through his Broken!Cortana phase... so I think Novels!Chief could manage it pretty well, actually.

[druid91]

This. The Master Chief was kidnapped at the age of six or something, and turned into a terribly cyborg killing machine by the government. I don't think he listened to much music, beyond some military bugles and space-patriotism ballads.

It's quite likely he enjoys flip music like Sergeant Johnson.

Considering it's always playing in his pelicans and headset. What you thought that was background music for the game? No sir.:smalltongue:

[Wargor]

Nope, he hates flip music, that's a documented fact.

[Eldan]

Well, let's talk about the music taste of the judges, then.

Agent Smith... I can't really see him liking music at all, to be honest. Too human. Too emotional. He might perhaps be convinced to listen to classical music to show how cultured and superior he is, but I doubt it. He'd judge entirely by technical reasons, then. Judging things like timing and precision.

Link: well, I'd assume that coming from a quasi-medieval culture, that's the style of music he'd know. He seems to like occarinas, but no idea how he'd react to modern music.

Spike: at least he would know a variety of music. Was it just Jet that liked Jazz and Blues or did he too?

[Wargor]

I'm pretty sure Spike was a Blues fan too, and not a Heavy Metal fan if I remember that episode correctly.

[Eldan]

Oh yeah. True.

So Khorne might have some problems there.

[Kris Strife]

I think Agent Smith would be a fan of Techno. :smalltongue:

[drakir_nosslin]

Nothing says that you need music to dance either. I once danced a whole number in silence, the only sound was our feet as we stomped the beat.
Turned out really nice, though you need to be a pretty large group to pull it off nicely.
EDIT: It was military themed as well, so it's certainly something that MC could relate to.

[Prime32]

If you're bribing judges, Smith seems the best target since he can turn the other judges into Smiths. Trying to bribe Link would be pointless, since he's a hero and everything.

[Eldan]

Pff. Bribing Link is easy.

"I'll give you this piece of broken pottery if you go over the Pass of Certain Avalanchy Death, through the Forest of Musical Labyrinth Puzzles, cross the Gorge of Hungry Shadows and bring me a leaf from the tree that grows there. Oh, and the man guarding it will probably want a unique kind of blue bird for it, so be prepared to find one."

Link will trade anything for anything. Just offer him something that looks like a quest item and he'll do it.

[Xefas]

I added an addendum about foe-maiming. (It's sort of allowed)

Also, I'll just throw out some prospectives from the Pokemon franchise, which seems to be getting the least amount of love (and I'll be damned before I relinquish the image of Master Chief leading Spanish Buzz Lightyear, Malcolm Reynolds, Nightmare, and some Pokemon in a dance recital).

Ditto rather nicely gets around the "no duplicates" rule, albeit in a limited fashion. Unlike the game-version of Ditto, who can only duplicate Pokemon, the Ditto from the first season of the Pokemon anime could change into any objects or people that it could see.

Porygon, as a sentient computer program created to "troubleshoot" humans out of computer software, may have a particular advantage at swinging the Agent Smith vote.

Meowth is versed in both ballet and kabuki. And if you've ever played Elite Beat Agents, that as well.

I'm sure there are others, but that was off the top of my head.

[drakir_nosslin]

Perhaps Khorne wouldn't be so terrible anyway in this... I mean, he could probably make a decent war-dance, designed to intimidate the judges to vote in his favor. Add to that some bribery before the actual competition and I think that MC got himself a challenge.
In that case Khorne would probably just pick the meanest looking ones from the list and leave the rest for MC, so our spartan could just come away with the best dancers otoh.

[Necro_EX]

Uhh...slightly irregular?

what.

Now, I think the way it would go down, in the simplest way because I fear too much for that little scrap of sanity I have left to go through this in its entirety.

Master Chef wins, mostly because two of the three judges are from a future-world in which techno and industrial are likely to be genres more widely liked. Link's obviously the wildcard judge because he'll have heard a lot less varieties of music, so he'd probably go more with whatever comes closer to his sensibilities which is likely to be whatever has heavier classical composition and instrumentation.

Now, I'm probably making a lot of simplifications and quick conclusions, but I imagine Master Chef would go with something techno-y or industrial-y, I'm thinking Eisenfunk or something along those lines. He'd likely pick up Malcolm, Wash, Buzz, Frozone, and James. (Alright, those last two were really just personal preference, he'd likely grab two others from Firefly.)

Now, they'd have some kind of crazy industrial dance routine goin' on. I'm thinking something similar to this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNAdtkSjSps) As far as what they go with for music...
Well, that I'm a little less sure of, but I just get the feeling it would be something industrial, I'm probably wrong considering the soundtrack for Halo has always had some metal to it. :/

As for Khorne...Well, it's obvious what music they would be using. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkkYxmMj-Oo) Now, being that Khorne's a god and all, I'm sure he could supernaturally gift his team in ways that might just aide in their ability to dance, though that definitely seems more like Slaanesh's thing.

For his team...I'm thinking Voldo, Bruno, Nightmare, Astaroth, and Mr. Incredible. Maybe switch out Voldo for Rock, maybe Mr. Incredible with someone who would resist him less, Syndrome perhaps.

I have no clue what the hell they'd do, though. I mean...Khorne is a god of chaos, so it's sort of hard to imagine what he might come up with...Slaanesh or Tzeentch I could maybe imagine what they'd do, but Khorne...I just don't know, I'm sure it would be horrifying and seeing it would make two of the three judges go blind, not to mention what it would put all the contestants through.

So, I'd put my money on Master Chief's team.

[Chess435]

Slightly Irregular?

And the understatement of the year award goes to......