[3.5] Dexter Morgan

[Thurbane]

Question: how would you stat Dexter Morgan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexter_Morgan

Personally, I believe the version of the character in the novel is slightly more interesting for D&D:

Around book 3, it becomes apparent that his Dark Passenger is an actual demon. This got dropped in later books, I believe - I've only read the first three.
Note: I've only seen seasons 1 through 4, so try not to give away too many spoilers, please.

OK, here's my shopping list of his traits:

Key stat: Intelligence (forensics expert).
No emotions, or empathy.
Decent to good unarmed combat skills.
Good stealth skills.
Poison use (Drow Sleep Poison).

I'm thinking a mix of Factotum, Rogue and Urban Ranger? Maybe some Monk/Kung Fu Genius?

[Aharon]

Well, he is clearly human, so if we go by the math by the alexandrian (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html), no higher than 5th level. I haven't analysed wether it's correct, but it sounds good when you read the article superficially. Seeing how old it is, it might be dated.

Slightly OT:
I didn't read the books, but I HATE the idea of the dark traveller being an actual demon. The series is far more interesting in my opinion without that. Some people are psychotic mass murderers, you don't need a demon for it.
But if you insist on using that version, Fiend of Possession looks like an obvious choice.

[Thurbane]

Slightly OT:
I didn't read the books, but I HATE the idea of the dark traveller being an actual demon. The series is far more interesting in my opinion without that. Some people are psychotic mass murderers, you don't need a demon for it.
But if you insist on using that version, Fiend of Possession looks like an obvious choice.
Yes, a lot of people hated it for exactly the same reason. I believe that's why it was retconned/dropped in later books.

[libermortis]

class: Rogue

str 14
dex 14
con 14
int 17
wis 10
cha 15

Skills: M=max ranks
Bluff M
Diplomacy
Heal M
Hide M
Move Silently M
Gather Information
Intimidate
Knowledge Nature M
Listen
Open Lock
Spot
Sense Motive
Use Rope M

Feats
Improved grappel

Special ability
poison use

[Goonthegoof]

I wouldn't put him that far above average physically, nor quite that high mentally- He keeps in good shape and knows how to fight, but it's not like he's that far beyond a regular person. 12 or so for the physical stats and 14 or so for the mental ones sounds more reasonable.

[Otherworld Odd]

Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 10-12
Int: 14
Wis: 12-14
Cha: ? No idea.

Alignment, Lawful evil. No question. Skills, I agree with libermortis.

[CigarPete]

10 is way below what I would think for him strength-wise. Think about how easily he is shown moving bodies about. Yes, there is effort, but he is still able to move large men without too much trouble. I would give him at least a 14, probably a 15 or 16.

To put it in perspective, consider a weightlifting example. SRD for carrying capactity is that a character can lift his max load above his head, and can lift twice his max load off the ground and stagger around with it. So figure a character with 15 strength can do a standing, overhead press with 200lbs, and deadlift 400. With a 10 strength, that is 100lbs and 200lbs respectively. With a 10 strength, he would not be able to put a full grown man on his shoulders and walk.

I think libermortis is more on track with this one. High Int, dumped Wis, high Cha, and good physical stats. In any case, he is well above normal, so a 32 point buy :smallbiggrin:

My view:
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 17
Wis 6
Cha 14

[Serpentine]

I think I'd be inclined to make him naturally drawn towards Neutral Evil, and struggling to remain Lawful Neutral. Big penalty to Sense Motive, I reckon - he just doesn't really understand people. He's pretty strong, so I think he should be at least above-average there. I also think he should have some ranks in Profession - Blood Analyst, and possibly Vigilante :smallamused:

Regarding the "dark passenger": I believe I heard somewhere that the nature of that thing varied from book to book? Somehow adhered to book theme or something like that. Dunno, haven't read.

[Aharon]

I wouldn't give him a high CHA. People do note his lack of people skills (Debra in one episode remarks that he is like the male cliché), and he wasn't able to pretend emotions well enough in his relationship with Rita to fully hide there was something wrong with him.

That he continously succeeds at keeping his secret is more due to his intelligence and careful planning, I think - few people ever suspected him.

[Darth Stabber]

My info is based heavily on the show (as oppose to the books) so there may be some discrepency. I would give him a decent Wis. He doesn't know people, but he gets criminals, he knows a liar when he sees one, and his senses are decent. He is aweful at interacting (low cha), infact sometimes it is just painful to watch him fail at talking to people that he isn't killing. He is likely a rogue, given his wide variety of skills, and a wicked sucker punch (sneak attack). There is no reason that the dark passenger seems like one of those things that should be roleplayed and left at that. Adding a mechanic would way overkill, he's not turning his head 360 and spraying green stuff in every direction, he just NEEDS to kill people.

My take
Human Rogue3 LE
str 12
dex 13
Con 12
int 15
wis 14
cha 6-8

Skills
Open lock, hide, move silently, heal, search, spot, Knowledge(local), bluff, sense motive, use rope, gather info, profession (blood analyst)

Feats
Imp Unarmed Strike, Improved grapple, Urban Tracker.

Trait - Suspicious

Special - Poison Use, Uses Intelligence for Gather Info and Bluff

actually, this seems like it could be an interesting character for my PCs to deal with, evil but not a "problem" in the sense that they care about. (strokes beard evilly)

[libermortis]

I think I'd be inclined to make him naturally drawn towards Neutral Evil, and struggling to remain Lawful Neutral.

good point.

but about the Sense Motive i think your wrong dexter often uses it and with some success, i would only give a -2 ore -4.

[Serpentine]

Yeah, the trouble is that on the one hand, he doesn't get people and struggles in normal interactions with them. On the other hand, he can tell when people are lying and pretend to get people quite well. I dunno, maybe I'd give him the ability to use Intelligence to overcome Bluff and to handle some social situations... Man, he's tough.

[Curmudgeon]

Str 15
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 15
Wis 13
Cha 6

Something like that.

[SilverSheriff]

From what I've seen (the First Season of the Television Show):

Level 5 Rogue.

Str 15
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 15
Wis 13
Cha 15

Max Ranks in Bluff, Persuasion, Intimidate, Gather Info, and Sense Motive.
High Ranks in Medicine, Forensics, and Anatomical Knowledge.

[Thurbane]

How about Deformity (madness) as a feat? -4 penalty to Wis seems to fit.

[Zonugal]

How about Deformity (madness) as a feat? -4 penalty to Wis seems to fit.

I was just going to suggest this.

I think Dexter Morgan is pretty easy to do (especially in an E6 type of game). He is certainly a rogue focused on poisons and grappling. His job aspects can all be summed up with Heal skill. Regarding his strength we have to remember he was able to hold his own against Sgt. Stokes (a former Black Ops Ranger).

[Darth Stabber]

Dexter seems not to suffer from a lack of wisdom. He has streetsmarts and the honed senses of a predator. He is very with it,

He seems to act in a manner consistant with alot of paladins I have seen in D&D, minus the poison use.

[Reluctance]

How faithfully are you trying to make this translation? Miami's Dexter assumes a no-magic world where the opposition is entirely mundane. Dexter in a world of magic and real monsters would develop quite differently.

[Frozen_Feet]

Do note that high ranks in Sense Motive would overcome even the highest penalty in Wis by level 6. :smallwink: Likewise, he could have a trait that adds to Sense Motive but detracts from Diplomacy, or a feat that give circumstancial bonuses to some checks.

I could easily imagine Dexter having poor scores in both Cha and Wis, maybe in 6 to 8 range. He just has enough ranks in appropriate skills to overcome them. Otherwise, physical scores in the range of 12 to 14 and Int in 16 to 18 range sound reasonable. Rogue seems like a natural fit. I'd peg him as NE, cause while he holds to a code and does his best to pretend a normal citizen, he methodically goes around breaking and subverting the law.

[Zonugal]

I'd peg him as NE, cause while he holds to a code and does his best to pretend a normal citizen, he methodically goes around breaking and subverting the law.

Let us also not forget that he loves killing.

[LOTRfan]

In the books (and even some episodes), Dexter loves to use the garrote. Even if he is not killing them directly, he is adept at getting it so he can strangle them if he has to. Sort of like the first episode.

You guys seem to be handling the statistics very well. Weapon-wise, I suggest (not carrying them all at once, of course):

1-2 garrotes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/garrote)
1 sickle
2-3 daggers
1 flail
1 light hammer
1 light pick
1 heavy pick
1-2 Throwing axes
4-5 war razors. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/war-razor)

I might also suggest looking through Book of Vile Darkness for torture/execution devices.

[Serpentine]

Do note that high ranks in Sense Motive would overcome even the highest penalty in Wis by level 6. :smallwink: Likewise, he could have a trait that adds to Sense Motive but detracts from Diplomacy, or a feat that give circumstancial bonuses to some checks.

I could easily imagine Dexter having poor scores in both Cha and Wis, maybe in 6 to 8 range. He just has enough ranks in appropriate skills to overcome them. Otherwise, physical scores in the range of 12 to 14 and Int in 16 to 18 range sound reasonable. Rogue seems like a natural fit.Yeah, that'd probably be the best way to handle it. He has no natural affinity with other people and little sense of self (beyond the Dark Passenger), but he puzzles it out through experience and application of intellect. Everything else, I guess, is roleplaying...

I'd peg him as NE, cause while he holds to a code and does his best to pretend a normal citizen, he methodically goes around breaking and subverting the law.I'd just like to give him some credit for his struggle. Like I said, I think he's naturally - through no particular fault of his own - inclined towards NE, but he struggles very hard all the time (and through the series gets closer to it) to be LN. I'd make him wavering between them, I think, depending on his particular deeds and state of mind at any particular moment.

[Aergoth]

Feat:

Passing [General]
Requirements:
Cha: 9>
Wis: 9>
Int: 14
Knowledge Local: 5 ranks
You have acquired the skills and knowledge to pass as a human, or member of another race at least a little. Your knowledge is only theoretical however, and you lack nuances that others may notice. You may apply your intelligence modifier as a bonus to your sense motive, bluff and diplomacy checks.

[Darth Stabber]

Let us also not forget that he loves killing.

So your saying he's a player character?

[rokar4life]

There is absolutely no way that Dexter is level 5. His strength is also being put up far too high, at 12 he can lift a full grown, and actually rather heavy man, but at 15 he's approaching bodybuilder. His wisdom should be no better than average, his intelligence has been spot on. Dexterity and Constitution are kind of up in the air for me. Probably 12 and 12, maybe 11 Con. Low charisma, but with int bonus being added to bluff and sense motive instead of charisma makes the most sense for the character. The Dark Passenger could be played as a negative modifier to some stats if he hasn't killed any humanoid with his "ritual" for a certain amount of time, and bonuses for a short time afterwards.

[Callista]

I think as far as charisma goes, people tend to get an "off" impression from him; so that would mean a relatively low charisma, possibly a 6.

He has, however, a highly trained Bluff skill to make up for the low charisma score. That solves the problem of how he is both obviously "off" and capable of maintaining his masquerade.

LE for alignment.

High strength and dexterity, for hauling around bodies and performing surgery/torture. 13-14 for both.

Intelligence is an 18, easy. Possibly 19, having been increased at level-up. Dexter is in the top half-percent of the population, and that means an 18.

Wisdom is actually relatively high. He has to do a lot of thinking ahead to stay hidden, and he is rather good at it. He controls his desire to murder very carefully and uses a good deal of foresight. I would suggest a 13-14 for this.

Constitution is average.

Classes: Urban Ranger/Rogue, almost certainly; possibly Expert levels in there focusing on the forensics. Level--about 3-4 or so, maybe 5 if he has Expert levels. He may have some low-level variant Assassin class, or feats which duplicate class features like poison use. He definitely has the ability to hit weak spots and disable opponents.

[Thurbane]

FWIW, don't get too hung up on the level. The character doesn't have to be a reflection of the "real" Dexter, it could just be a Dexter-inspired D&D character build...

[Lvl45DM!]

Higher Dex than Con i would say. A grazing shot to the leg left him sitting for a while, and he never takes any hits. 10 Con 12 Dex maybe. He's gotta be high enough level to take on Doakes in a fight, though not a fair fight, and Doakes is a 1 Ranger/1 Warrior.
Also he doesn't need that high a bluff, just assume everyone else has no Sense Motive.

[Serpentine]

I'm unconvinced by the high Dex at this point. When has he shown himself to be particularly nimble?
edit: That's not a "you're all wrong and you suck", incidentally, but rather a "convince me".

New angle, by the way: If Dexter one day found himself in a D&D universe with, say, 5 levels under his belt (i.e. retroactively applied) and the limits of D&D at his disposal for future leveling, what do you think he'd do? I don't think it'd be Wizard or whatever, because he's very much more a hands-on sort of a fellow.

[pasko77]

Paladin :P

Anyway, seriously, dude is a frickin' genius of deception, among other things.
He must be a factotum.

[Callista]

I'm unconvinced by the high Dex at this point. When has he shown himself to be particularly nimble?
edit: That's not a "you're all wrong and you suck", incidentally, but rather a "convince me".He has a very high level of manual dexterity--he could be a surgeon if he wanted. He has also managed to dodge quite a few things coming at him.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm unconvinced by the high Dex at this point. When has he shown himself to be particularly nimble?
He's got a really high hit percentage with light weapons (tranquilizer syringe), which looks like good DEX + Weapon Finesse to me.

[Sillycomic]

Weapon finesse seems useless for a character who also has decent strength, and we've already proven Dexter has an above average strength.

Using the syringe, if we're looking at a level 5 rogue.

3 BAB
2 STR modifier
1 Weapon Focus: Syringe
1 masterwork syringe

7 modifier against all of his victims who have no armor and are flat footed (he sneaks up behind them) so the AC would be 10.

[ZeroNumerous]

Paladin :P

Serial killer paladins aren't as odd as you would think (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofSlaughterClas sFeatures).

[Zonugal]

Higher Dex than Con i would say. A grazing shot to the leg left him sitting for a while, and he never takes any hits. 10 Con 12 Dex maybe. He's gotta be high enough level to take on Doakes in a fight, though not a fair fight, and Doakes is a 1 Ranger/1 Warrior.
Also he doesn't need that high a bluff, just assume everyone else has no Sense Motive.

I don't know if I would have Sgt. Doakes as a second level character. I might put him around level 4 or five but in levels of ranger giving him a more martial bent rather than Dexter with rogue levels.

[pasko77]

Serial killer paladins aren't as odd as you would think (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinofSlaughterClas sFeatures).

Yeah, i meant he behaves like you average d&d paladin (played wrong, of course, but I saw it all too often).

Seriously, though, dude is a master of disguise, and has some very honed sense motive, but only for "his kind".
He does not understand normal people, at all.
I would give him Factotum class, a heavy WIS penalty and a sense motive bonus feat for evil people.

You can make a feat like +6 sense motive vs evil.

[Serpentine]

Paladin :PInspiration! :biggrin:
See the Demotivator thread...

[OverdrivePrime]

Physical stats are well above human average. Because of his duty, he's kept himself in excellent physical shape. He doesn't have a huge, intimidating frame, but he is definitely an athlete - regularly seen running and engaging in intense physical activity without getting winded. Keep in mind that your 'average' human with physical scores around 10 or 11 gets winded climbing 2 flights of stairs and doesn't walk more than a mile in any given day. Dexter is definitely agile and dexterous, and would be a good candidate for the dodge feat. He doesn't get hit often in combat, even when engaging with some fairly capable fighters.

14 seems to be the minimum for physical stats, with constitution possibly being the lowest of the three.

[DarkEternal]

Hmmm...

Let's see:

STR:12
DEX:14
CON:12
WIS:12
INT:15
CHA:11

Alignment: Lawful Evil, though he dances occassionally towards Neutral Evil.

These grades are only given on his portrayal in the series. I haven't read the books(Yet)

I usually regard DnD stats like this. Common, everyday people have all stats in 10, some even in 9. Ranks of 16-17 are practically "all you can be", while 18 is super hero territory. Dexter is trained in combat, though nothing really spectacular to the point htat he vowed me. His combat techniques are more in terms of disabling an opponent. Against Doakes, his only chance was to get him in the water, which shows cunning and intelligence, where his lighter frame was better for him to basically choke him out, on even grounds I'm pretty sure Doakes would curbstomp him. Subterfuge, sneakiness, intelligent fighting is more of his style. His Dexterity is pretty highly up, he has nimble fingers, can move silently and hide in shadows, trained by Harry and himself through experience. He is of above average built, can withstand punishment and is well conditioned, though nothing supernatural, Wisdom....Well, this was the hardest stat for me to judge based on him, since the man is a sociopath.

He does show wisdom, and common sense, but also often forgoes it due to his "Dark Passenger" when he simply "needs" to kill, even when it would be prudent to stay low. He can tame those wants, but only for a limited amount of time. Still, he has shown good deductive skills, and common sense on more then one occassion. Highly intelligent, studies each and every case he takes, trained in his job to the point of art. He is not overy Charismatic, quite the opposite. It is his intelligence and wisdom that never give him away. He's awkward, has problems holding a decent conversation with anyone but his sister(and that is pretty strained), the more he tries to talk with someone, the greater chances are that he'll be found out, Doakes deducted it fairly quickly.

Skills:
Hide
Move Silently
Bluff
Use Magic Device(we are still in a DnD world :p)
Sleight of Hand
Forgery
Spot
Listen
Tumble
Craft(alchemy)
Craft(poisons)
Sense Motive

Feats:
Weapon finesse(a light weapon like a dagger or scalpel)
Improved Initiative(usually acts first, before his victims know what's coming to them)
Exotic weapon proficiency(various things, from chainsaws, to syringes, to I don't know what the hell)
Uncanny Dodge(same as with Evasion, can't really be flanked, since he always thinks ahead)

Probably some more I missed.

As for his classes, rogue would of course be the closest one I can see. Maybe asassin. After a few levels, I could see him prestiging in something like a Spymaster(awesome fluff class), even though his charisma is fairly lacking. An Artificier is also an option of sorts.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Given that the 3.5 system, while not QUITE a bad as flat 3.0, is still a ham-handed attempt at best... -perhaps a compilation of essential traits should be compiled first. For example, I see the following as fitting class features under his belt:

Strong Evil Aura (ex)
Detect Evil at-will (sp)
perhaps Uncanny Dodge (ex)
Sneak Attack progression (ex)
AC Bonus (ex)
perhaps Trapfinding
perhaps Trapsense
Death Attack
Poison Use
perhaps Hide in Plain Sight (shadows) (su)
possibly Veiled Spirit (su)
possibly Master of Doors (su)

Looking at the list, my vision of the character appears to be some warped fusion of Paladin, Paladin of Tyranny, Rogue, Assassin, and Silver Key. :smallconfused:

[randomhero00]

rogue- lawful evil
str- 14
dex- 12
con- 12
int- 14
wis- 14
cha- 8

Remember cleverness and willpower fall under wisdom, he definitely has both or he'd have gone on a killing spree and gotten caught. The main reason he's so good is that he was trained/leveled EARLY. So he started around lvl 2, and is now probably lvl 3 maybe close to 4. So considering most of his victims are lvl 1 at best (if not commoners), and he's a rogue that easily gets sneak attack and poison...

There's no way he has any stats above 16 or is past level 4. Level 4 is roughly peak sport level (Olympian with multiple Golds). In a one on one fight against a lvl 4 martial artist (or 'monk') he'd get his butt kicked. But lvl 4 and 5s are so rare in the real world I don't think he's come across one.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Regarding the "dark passenger": I believe I heard somewhere that the nature of that thing varied from book to book? Somehow adhered to book theme or something like that. Dunno, haven't read.

That was an interview with Jeff Lindsay. He said something along the lines that each of the Dexter books deals with a facet of serial killing (as seen through Dexter's worldview). Book 2 was government 'wetwork', Book 3 was ritualistic/occult murderers (hence the implication that the Dark Passenger was a demon), Book 4 was vengeance, and Book 5 is cannibalism (I think, I haven't read it yet). I forget what Book 1 was supposed to be showing. So there's no need for a literal Fiend of Possession or anything specifically dealing with the 'dark passenger' since it's nature is still very much unknown and is likely just deranged Dexter's dalliances with damaged 'demons' given mental form.

Though, he does make continuous mention on how everything seems clearer, himself stronger and quicker, whenever the he lets the dark passenger take over. There's probably a mechanic relating to that somewhere. Much easier to build Dexter in d20 modern though...obviously. xD

In any case Dexter's charisma and wisdom are a bit...iffy to peg. He doesn't get people but he can tell when they are lying, nervous, etc. (low wisdom, high ranks in sense motive?) More importantly, he's charming and likable so his Charisma is likely fairly good. Especially since he likes to scare the killers he catches.

[Serpentine]

Don't have it at hand, but what about the Vigilante prestige class?

[Zonugal]

Don't have it at hand, but what about the Vigilante prestige class?

I might push towards a combo of Master Inquisitive and Zhentarim SpyMaster.

[Thurbane]

Don't have it at hand, but what about the Vigilante prestige class?
It's a decent thematic fit, but mechanically...no. Basically, it's a vengeance oriented Bard, without music.

Avenging Executioner, on the other hand, might be a good fit.

Also, what's that 3.0 PrC...Ghost Walker? Can't remember it's mechanics off the top of my head.

[SwordChucks]

Dexter's Cha might be low but I'm pretty sure he gets a +2 bonus to bluff from his masterwork doughnuts.

I also think that his Str is about 13. When he first fought D'oakes, Dexter's skill was shocking because he was a forensics nerd in D'oakes' eyes. Most of Dexter's advantage in combat comes from forethought, surprise, and occasionally luck. Maybe he has deft opportunist and he uses a lot of feints in combat.

[Zonugal]

Perhaps the feat Keen Intellect would be useful in such a build?

[only1doug]

<snip>
Though, he does make continuous mention on how everything seems clearer, himself stronger and quicker, whenever the he lets the dark passenger take over. There's probably a mechanic relating to that somewhere. Much easier to build Dexter in d20 modern though...obviously. xD

<snip>

Possibly a level or two of The Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/mYkD5jL8N9SAcClN3pZ.html) class, slightly refluffed?

[Ernir]

What about Factotum? Replace the casting with some extraordinary poisoning ability, and you should be good...

[Darth Stabber]

The madness domain power could be a fit. It gives a penalty to wisdom checks except for 1/day it gives a huge bonus instead. Not sure how to put domain powers on a low level rogue.