[3.5]BoED Totemist Question.

[Darth Stabber]

As per BoED poison use is bad (m'kay), but poisons that only effect evil things are alright (not looking to start a war on that).

Naturally poisonous things are not inherantly evil, infact a Couatl is considered an exemplar of good (with a wicked 2d4/4d4 str poison).

Totemists have soulmelds that inject poison (atleast 1 off the top of my head Phase Cloak totem bound). Would I lose Exalted feats if I bit an enemy using the poisonous bite attack from my Phase Cloak, since it is a Quasi-natural poison (ie i didn't buy poison and put it on my weapon, it just happens when I bite people)?

[Akal Saris]

Probably a question for the DM, like most BoED morality questions are. I'd say that by RAW, yes, poisons are evil, even natural ones, and the couatl is an exception to the general rule.

Of course, as a DM, I would allow it, because I don't view poisons as inherently evil as long as they don't cause serious suffering and are used as a tool for a good cause. Drow sleep poison, for example, would be a humane way to knock out a foe you don't want to kill.

[Darth Stabber]

Drow sleeping poison seems very... undrow like. Now a paralysis poison that immobilized the target while causing searing pain in ever nerve ending in their body, very drow.

[mikau013]

Drow sleeping poison seems very... undrow like. Now a paralysis poison that immobilized the target while causing searing pain in ever nerve ending in their body, very drow.

The 'pain' is imagining what will happen to you when you wake up. There is no thread worse than what your own mind can think off, well except in d&d :smalleek:

[Psyren]

I would base the morality on who you're poisoning and why, just like any other attack in D&D. Poison getting special treatment is ridiculous to me.

What makes poison more evil than, say, lighting someone on fire or suffocating them? I love what BoED was trying to do but as with all things the devil is in the details.

[Noneoyabizzness]

Drow sleeping poison seems very... undrow like. Now a paralysis poison that immobilized the target while causing searing pain in ever nerve ending in their body, very drow.

to sleep perchance to dream of lolth and envision the uneding torment of the demonweb pits.

while they tie you down and see if they can outdo your imagintion when you wake up

[stainboy]

According to BoED p.34:


Using poison that deals ability damage is an evil act because it causes undue suffering in the process of incapacitating or killing an opponent.

So RAW says what makes it evil is dealing ability damage. As far as whether this makes the tiniest shred of sense, or whether your group might wish to use house rules that make more sense, you're on your own.

[Quietus]

According to BoED p.34:



So RAW says what makes it evil is dealing ability damage. As far as whether this makes the tiniest shred of sense, or whether your group might wish to use house rules that make more sense, you're on your own.

Which of course means... every couatl that's ever bit someone has performed an evil act. Despite being extraplanar paragons of Good.

God I love D&D.

[Psyren]

Which of course means... every couatl that's ever bit someone has performed an evil act. Despite being extraplanar paragons of Good.

God I love D&D.

It's okay, they were really sorry afterward!

[stainboy]

That's why their CL is just high enough to cast Atonement. :smallwink:

[Darth Stabber]

If memory serves, i believe that BoED also contained couatl venom as a ravage or "good" poison. When used by someone other than a couatl it only effects evil people and isn't evil? And ravages are listed as causing pain to evil creatures. Why? Why? WHY?

Personally i would say most things that you would call a ravage aren't all that good.

Why should it be this murky and stupidly complex to make an Ascetic Kindly Animal Man, who will mess you up if you mistreat his percieved charges. I wanted to avoid the cliche Girallon/bullette blender (or the equally trite manticore machinegun), and try something new. And why is poison so bad, Acid would cause even more pain, and I can throw acid flasks and acid arrows at bad guys all day, and the screams and lamentations are less meaningful because they weren't poisoned?

That's it, I'm playin a chaotic evil cleric who raids orphanages to raise the orphans as warlocks and necromancers. He is sworn to protect orphans because they are the next generation of evil. Mwah ha ha ha ha. The Orphans will see him as kindly reverend bob, who teaches them about how much Orcus loves them. And he will lovingly teach them all manners of unspeakable rituals and spells, and teach them that the outside world refuses to see the light of Orcus, but they must be made to see in the glorious zombie apocalypse that will summon the demon lord to this plane to smile kindly of his children while the foul sanctimonious "good" will suffer an eternity or torcher, as their bodies form the infantry of the army that will finally destroy the upper planes, damning all or reality for it's failure to be comprehensible in any manner whatsoever.........

I may have just ranted a bit to much.

[Volthawk]

Drow sleeping poison seems very... undrow like. Now a paralysis poison that immobilized the target while causing searing pain in ever nerve ending in their body, very drow.

Well, they have better poisons in Drow of the Underdark. For example, a magical poison named The Calling which when ingested hatches spiders that eventually come out of the victim's nose and mouth and attack people.

[Darth Stabber]

Well, they have better poisons in Drow of the Underdark. For example, a magical poison named The Calling which when ingested hatches spiders that eventually come out of the victim's nose and mouth and attack people.

Oh, I am gming a game thursday, that is sooooo going in!!! :smallbiggrin:

[Master_Rahl22]

Wow, and I may have to borrow Reverend Bob for a buddy of mine who runs a regular game. :smallbiggrin:

[Darth Stabber]

Reverend Bob may also raise some of the High Con kids to be necrocarnates, just to screw with peoples heads (yay fast zombies)

[Person_Man]

I would say that it's silly to waste your Totem chakra bind on a bite attack. But for the sake of argument, I would point out that there are a few Totemist soulemelds which are specifically Evil, like Lamia Belt. Phase Cloak is not listed as an Evil soulmeld, so using it is presumably not an Evil act.

Similarly, there are some poorly written Adaptation rule suggestions at the end of the Necrocarnate PrC for "Vivicarnum" which suggests that you can use Good versions of Necrocarnum soulmelds/PrC.

[Psyren]

Similarly, there are some poorly written Adaptation rule suggestions at the end of the Necrocarnate PrC for "Vivicarnum" which suggests that you can use Good versions of Necrocarnum soulmelds/PrC.

Poorly-written perhaps, but given that Necrocarnates literally eat babies (unborn ones anyway), their inclusion in most parties would be quite suspect.