[3.5] Undead Paladin?

[CubeB]

So, I wanted to try making an Undead Paladin type of character. This is a campaign where alignment restrictions are eased up considerably.

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure what the best way to do this is. I'm -allowed- to cast Positive Energy spells. It'll hurt (as fluff), but I can do it.
And I definitely want to be good aligned, but I don't particularly want to be Deathless. Also, Detect Evil is -really- useful in this campaign, or so I'm told.

So. How should I go about this?

[RTGoodman]

I can't say much mechanics-wise right now, but I do think a Necropolitan Paladin/Greyguard might be pretty cool. He was formerly a Paladin who somehow became a bit undead, and that has made him a little angrier and more likely to, say, use his lay on hands to hurt people.

[MammonAzrael]

Grab the feat Positive Energy Resistance from Libris Mortis.

[Calmar]

Ghosts may be good-aligned. IAlso, revenants may be non-evil, but I don't know if they can be good.

[CubeB]

Ghosts may be good-aligned. IAlso, revenants may be non-evil, but I don't know if they can be good.

I'd like to be solid.

Also, Revenants have a bunch of abilities that only work on a single person, which doesn't make them worth the LA

[Ravens_cry]

Necropolitan is about the easiest way to become Undead that doesn't hose you with build breaking LA, you can then fluff it however you want.
Thematically? How about the Guardian Eternal, an order of Paladins dedicated guarding the Sealed Ones, great evils locked away to prevent them from ravaging the world. One got loose and it is your job to go bring it back.
Plot hook for the DM, and some interesting role play for you as you figure out how the world has changed in the last thousand or so years you have been standing guard.

[CubeB]

Necropolitan is about the easiest way to become Undead that doesn't hose you with build breaking LA, you can then fluff it however you want.
Thematically? How about the Guardian Eternal, an order of Paladins dedicated guarding the Sealed Ones, great evils locked away to prevent them from ravaging the world. One got loose and it is your job to go bring it back.
Plot hook for the DM, and some interesting role play for you as you figure out how the world has changed in the last thousand or so years you have been standing guard.

Interesting...

I think I'll stick with Necropolitan as my base template. And I have an idea as to what I can go for.

[Optimator]

Be sure to beg your DM to take Unholy Toughness as a feat or even for free so you don't get clobbered while front-lining.

[Eldonauran]

I've created a few Undead Paladins in my time. I would check with your DM about the Necropolitan template as I don't particularly see the Good aligned Paladin using that as an option. And you don't want to use Deathless ...

A particular favorite of mine is a combination of the Ghoul/Ghast class from Libris Mortis and a 2nd level paladin (just before they become immune to disease). If you aren't too worried about optimization, this would be good for you, or you can take the Grave-touched Ghoul template farther in that book. If your DM is OK with LA buyback, I HIGHLY advise the ghoul class. If you have a decent WIS score, I point you towards the spell-stitched template and advise you to take a prestige class that will help with the spell-like abilities or take a fast progression divine casting class (like divine crusader). You will get a lot of mileage from that.

My usual approach is creating a self-confindent paladin that got a little over his head when tackling a crypt filled with ghouls, and ended up at his last straw vs a ghast. You can downplay his hunger for living flesh by having him eat live animals.


Be sure to beg your DM to take Unholy Toughness as a feat or even for free so you don't get clobbered while front-lining.

This, or see if you can fit in a few Improved Toughness feats.

[navar100]

Use the Deathless template if you need something official.

[Ravens_cry]

Use the Deathless template if you need something official.
Deathless are like Ravages, a clumsy attempt at making something that is, but isn't, in my opinion. Ravages are poisons, but aren't, Deathless are undead, but aren't.

[Runestar]

I would recommend the gravetouched ghoul template over the ghoul class. You essentially get the same benefits, at a lower cost (+2LA vs +5ECL).

[JaronK]

Are you familiar with the Bone Knight PrC from Five Nations? It's a PrC that's meant for Paladins (but goes best with Clerics) that makes you a leader of undead... but you can be a leader of undead for justice in your nifty bone armor. Admittedly, the class gives you a bunch of undead immunities you'd have anyway if you were a Necropolitan, but a Cleric/PrC Paladin/Bone Knight can be pretty darn awesome and thematic.

JaronK

[Keld Denar]

Gravetouched Ghoul Paladin of Tyranny is actually really good. Paralying Touch is Cha based for a DC, and Pally gives you lots of Cha based bonuses. Aura of Dispair is like a free Abilty Focus feat for your touch and disease abilities as well. Stack on Ability Focus and Improved Paralysis (LM) and you're looking at some sick, nearly unbeatable save DCs. Looking at ECL5 (level 3), you'll have a DC of 11 + 7 (22 Cha after racials) + 2 (Ability Focus) +4 (Imp Paralysis) + 2 (effective bonus due to Aura of Dispair) = 26. Most foes you fight at level 5 won't be able to make that except on a roll of 20, and even the heartiest will probably need a 16+ or so.

If you want to keep with the debuff focus, 3 levels of Binder with Improved Binding gets you BL5 to bind Foculor for another -2 on saves, and Hexblade4 nets you Hex and the Dark Companion ACF for another -4. Your casters will LOVE you.

[TroubleBrewing]

DMM Cleric makes for a better paladin than paladins do, IMO. Just my 2 cp.

[Infernalbargain]

DMM Cleric makes for a better paladin than paladins do, IMO. Just my 2 cp.

Well when you open the DMM can of worms, then you're getting into the tiers.

[CubeB]

Well when you open the DMM can of worms, then you're getting into the tiers.

Trying to avoid that. I think I'll just stick with Paladin for now. I always go HyperOptimized and it's giving my DM gray hairs.

Paladin with a PRC is simple enough.

[Calmar]

What is DMM?

[Shyftir]

It's a kind of cheese produced and eaten solely by Divine spell-casting munchkins.

[Ravens_cry]

What is DMM?
I am pretty sure it's Divine Metamagic in this context, a system of metamagic that uses turning attempts to fuel the metamagic. What makes it cheesy is there is an item called Nightsticks that grant turning attempts, and you can technically have many as you can get your hands on. In short, Persisted short duration personal buffs, including the one that gives you full BAB.

[TroubleBrewing]

Without the Nightsticks trick (which any sane DM will banhammer the hell out of), Divine Metamagic: Persist becomes merely a good option, rather than a totally-borked-toss-the-stat-blocks-out-the-window-and-cry option. High Cha, a few Extra Turnings sprinkled here and there, and you're really only Persisting a few spells on yourself, rather than all of them. (That is to say, all of the spells in all the books. Because Clerics are Tier 1 for a reason.)