[3.5] Fitting a new character into the group

[EnnPeeCee]

I am currently DMing for a group of new players, but will soon be switching out with one of them to play a character. Its a fairly non-serious game, and with everyone else so new to DnD, not very well optimized either. So basically, I'm looking for a unique character to play that won't overshadow any of the other players' characters.

Right now the party consists of:
- Orc Barbarian (hits things hard)
- Human Scout/Ranger (the archer and skillmonkey)
- Elf Duskblade (the awesome mage warrior)
- Human Dragon Shaman (support, ice-breath, and somewhat party face)
- Human Favored Soul (healing and protection) <- This is the player that will be switching to DMing

While we will be losing the Favored Soul, I feel like we'll have enough healing from the Dragon Shaman and items. Other than that, most of the party's needs are covered. My thoughts on what I would best fit in as would be either a tank, or a 3rd wheel character. As a side note, I don't feel like playing a full caster.

So here are some of the characters that I thought might work out well. Please suggest more, this is just what I had thought of.
- Paladin of Tyranny/Blackguard (tank plus adds the unique dynamic of being evil into a mostly good party)
- Monk/Deepwarden/Fist of the Forest (CON tank)
- Dragonfire Adept/Warshaper (humanoid shape fun, plus fit with the dragon theme of the party and campaign) *don't really want to also do breath weapon since dragon shaman already has that as a goal, could possibly convince DM to allow humanoid shape on a warlock
- Something/Hellreaver (tank and eventual healing)

Books we're not using: Psionics, ToB, ToM, Incarnum

Just to restate some things I'm looking for in my character:
Unique (fun!)
Not a full caster
Does not compete with other characters' roles

Anyway, just looking for some ideas. :smallsmile:

[TurtleKing]

Two classes that come to mind are the Bard and Marshall as great 3rd/5th wheels to the party. Both can buff the party by bardic music or auras. The Marshall with his auras may be stepping on the Dragon Shaman toes. However while the DS provides a magical buff by his auras the Marshall can provide a moral type buff. The Bard does the same with his songs. The Marshall however won't be standing on the skill monkey's toes. The Bard is also a skill monkey that could if chosen to accentuate with the other one rather than compete. The Bard does have some spells which could include some healing so has to help cover that base. If you are worried about the bard doing damage by himself grab the Evocation (sonic) spells available to bards for some damage output. The bard is also great for its highly customability.

The hexblade could also be fun for weakening your opponent so the others can take him down.

[Noblesse]

What about a specialized warrior type? i.e. disarming/tripping/grappling.

[EnnPeeCee]

I could always adapt any of the other tank characters into being a specialized warrior sort. I honestly forgot about tripping and the sort, thats a good idea.

Hm, I could add hexblade into the paladin of tyranny mix. Heck, I could add a couple levels of marshal into that too.

I will think about a bard though.

I guess I should check with the DM to see if he cares about convoluted character builds.

[Amnestic]

What level is the party in question? There's the Infernal Adept (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070613) feat from one of the WotC web supplements which lets a Warlock dip into the DFA invocations and vice versa, but it has to be two invocation ranks lower than your current max. Since Humanoid Shape is Lesser, your Warlock would need their max invocations to pick up Humanoid Shape without special DM allowances.

Edit: Bards are awesome. Lots of fun.

[EnnPeeCee]

I'll probably be joining around level 5, so a lot of the ideas I posted are for future progression. Unfortunately that would mean infernal adept would be useless to me at this point.

[Lord Bingo]

I have always liked the idea of the Bard class being used as an explorer of cultures and a gatherer and conveyer of knowledge, and while they perhaps not as effective as some other classes when it comes to the fighting they provide plenty of opportunities for fun roleplaying. Also, their wide range of spells mean that they can supplement the other casters.

There is a feat in Complete Scoundrel (or some other "Complete X") that lets you combine the Paladin and the Bard class, if you want a bit more "Umph" to the character in the fighting area, but I would just go straight Bard and then find an interesting PrC when I have all that I want from the Bard class.

[The Glyphstone]

I'd advise strongly against the PoT, because it'll literally be unplayable - you Fall if you ever commit a good act or associate regularly with Good characters.

EDIT; howbout Factotum? They're a perfect jack-of-all-trades that can do anything without overshadowing another person, and they're darn fun to boot.

[EnnPeeCee]

Yeah, thats probably true about PoT. I don't see the DM being very strict on the code, but I guess I'd better not risk it.

I would want to play a factotum, but I've never been a fan of the way its abilities work. Dunno why.

As for bard, I like the character idea, but I've never wanted to use the bardic music ability, and there is nothing I've found to trade for it.

[Demons_eye]

If your DM is flexible maybe a Druid whose spellcasting swapped out for knights challenge?

[veven]

Oh dude! bardic music is the best! Grab a badge of valor and the Song of the Heart feat (Eberron Campaign setting) and you have a +3 to attack and damage buff. That would add up in your party. If you wanna stick with the dragon theme you could become a Dragonborn of Bahaumut and pick up dragon fire inspiration to turn that into +3d6 fire damage on each of your allies attacks. Totally awesome, makes everyone else perform better, and is really fun.

[Zaq]

Incarnates make fantastic fifth wheels. They can adjust their soulmelds to fit whatever role the party needs to be filled, and since they get to change every day, you can experiment.

Binders are similar, but I prefer incarnates. Sure, binders are more powerful, but there's no explaining taste sometimes.

(Of course, my absolute favorite character ever was a binder/incarnate/chameleon. He was anything. You can do some amazing things with creative mixes of vestiges and soulmelds, especially if you have enough Bluff and Disguise to keep everyone else guessing. "What do you mean, yesterday I was an archer? Don't you see my full plate? Don't you feel my healing and buffing? I'm clearly a cleric. Praise Olidammara!")

But anyway, binders are good and incarnates are good. A bard would work, yes, but I think you'd risk stepping on the dragon shaman's toes, depending on how he's set up, since you'd be better at widespread buffs and better at being the face.

[aquaticrna]

+1 on bard... you should also take melodic casting and potentially snowflake wardance then go into dervish (you can maintain your song, make a move action and a full attack in the same turn) and be a dancing singing dealer of death!

[Amnestic]

As for bard, I like the character idea, but I've never wanted to use the bardic music ability, and there is nothing I've found to trade for it.

There are a few ACFs which trade off for some of the Bardic Music abilities (Countersong being a favourite to get rid of), but you really do want to look at Inspire Courage. With the right choices (Inspirational Boost spell, Badge of Valor item, Song of the Heart feat) you can raise your bonuses to be really quite impressive. Lingering Song lets your music continue to play while you go to work chopping people's faces off or beguiling them with your spellcasting.

Inspire Courage is really a bard's bread and butter. You definitely do not want to trade it away.


Oh dude! bardic music is the best! Grab a badge of valor and the Song of the Heart feat (Eberron Campaign setting) and you have a +3 to attack and damage buff. That would add up in your party. If you wanna stick with the dragon theme you could become a Dragonborn of Bahaumut and pick up dragon fire inspiration to turn that into +3d6 fire damage on each of your allies attacks. Totally awesome, makes everyone else perform better, and is really fun.

Either blowing a feat or dipping into Dragonfire Adept 1 can save you becoming a Dragonborn, which in some cases can be a bad move (humans might prefer the feat and skillpoints :smalltongue:)

[Psyren]

You guys need a utility caster, preferably one with lore skills as well; Duskblade and DS won't cut it, imo, and you're losing the favored soul. For instance, how will you teleport or fly? What if you have to traverse a large body of water? If the scout is incapacitated for some reason, who can fight at range? Who will identify the strange monster's weakness, or locate the bad guy's hidden macguffin?

I recommend Archivist, though Wizard or Psion can do this as well. Beguiler is another great pick dependinig on how many traps you might run into (the Scout can locate them but not much else.)

[Velaryon]

You guys need a utility caster, preferably one with lore skills as well; Duskblade and DS won't cut it, imo, and you're losing the favored soul. For instance, how will you teleport or fly? What if you have to traverse a large body of water? If the scout is incapacitated for some reason, who can fight at range? Who will identify the strange monster's weakness, or locate the bad guy's hidden macguffin?

I recommend Archivist, though Wizard or Psion can do this as well. Beguiler is another great pick dependinig on how many traps you might run into (the Scout can locate them but not much else.)

Alternatively, a warlock with a good UMD skill and some utility scrolls can do most of that in a pinch, as well as being a secondary archer. Also, keep in mind that the OP specifically doesn't want to be a full caster.

[EnnPeeCee]

I think I would be more inclined to play a Warlock than a Bard. Not really sure why, but Bards just don't do it for me. I appreciate the suggestion though, I realize it would be a good fit for the team.