Is Nale in the city with the OOTS?

[TheProfessor]

An interesting point was brought up in another thread,that not only was an elf shadowing V,but there was also a kobold following Belkar...

Bit of a coincedence,isn't it? We know that Nale was busy rebuilding his team,and we also know that the bounty hunters were hunting Nale. Add that with the the fact that Elan and Tarquin are also in the city,this looks like an ideal time for Nale to strike again.

If you also notice,Nale seems to strike in between the Xykon-focused plots,and we're in between one of those now.

I sense that he is close,and I think we'll see him again before this story arc is over.

[Morquard]

If you mean the green haired elf, thats "Polozius, ambassador from elven lands" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0742.html), so I highly doubt that's Nale's teammember.

And where did you see a kobold?

[NerfTW]

In the dungeon, a kobold is in the group ganging up on Belkar when he picks up the rock.

But I don't think they're related to Nale. I doubt he'd risk going after a gate in his father's territory when there's a perfectly good one in the north.

[HappyBlanket]

Aside from the points already made (and emphasizing that the one Kobold in the prisoner is unlikely to be related to Nale), I also don't believe we've yet seen any trace of Nale.

Not really sure if Nale showing up would make Elan's family feud more interesting though. If it would, the chance of him showing up increase rather dramatically (no pun intended).

[Katana_Geldar]

I think Nale is either at the gate or with Giraud.

[TheProfessor]

That aside,the other stuff I mentioned seems like forshadowing.

Given the current "theatrics" theme,this would be the perfect time for him to show up.

Think of it. This would probably be the best time for a Nale vs Elan vs Tarquin battle. All they need is Elan's mom and it would be a family reunion.

[Prowl]

Nale's INT is high enough not to show up in a city where he'd be extremely recognizable and, if caught, executed for treason.

[factotum]

I have to agree with Prowl--Nale may be a lot less smart than he thinks he is, but even he isn't stupid enough to go walking into the city where his father is de facto ruler and where the entire ruling elite would both recognise him *and* want to kill him!

[Mr. Snuggles]

My prediction: Nale shows up out of nowhere having gained a bunch of levels (Elan did, so as his rival, Nale must as well) and with new allies, to overthrow the Empress of Blood and finish what he started. Elan must ally with Tarquin save his father's life and to stop Nale.

[Ron Miel]

Nale's INT is high enough not to show up in a city where he'd be extremely recognizable and, if caught, executed for treason.

In the first place, Nale isn't all that smart, despite his opinion of himself.

Secondly, Haley had enough sense to stay away from Greysky, but she went back there anyway. In story terms, having the sense to stay away is no guarantee that he will do so.

Third, it's been discussed before that Tarquin doesn't want to kill Nale, he wants Nale captured alive for some reason. The difference between the bounty alive and the bounty dead is the price of a resurrection spell, (or so I'm told). I think this is probably going to be significant later. We will see why Tarquin wants him alive.

I think there is a good chance that Nale will show up before the end of the current book.

[BaronOfHell]

Nale stated that he isn't interested in this evil opposite theme anymore. I don't think he's hiring, at least not unqualified hirelings, such as Pompey.

Further more he has information about the existance of the gates on equal level as the order and knows what gate they're headed to.

I guess he'd be gathering information about the gate the order is not headed towards and trying to win a race of taking it under his control, before the good guys and Xykon arrives there for a final showdown confrontation.

Really, Nale have the sufficient cards to win now, and not just be an annoyance, as was his faith during the Azure city ark. It's only how he plays his cards that'll determine the degree of threat he pocess.

We will see why Tarquin wants him alive.

You mean apart from him being his own flesh&blood?
My guess: Tarquin loves both of his sons. He knows Nale is mentally immature, I'm not sure if he's figured out it's the same for Elan yet. Though none of them are really stupid, just very naive in each their own way.

[Forum Explorer]

In the dungeon, a kobold is in the group ganging up on Belkar when he picks up the rock.

But I don't think they're related to Nale. I doubt he'd risk going after a gate in his father's territory when there's a perfectly good one in the north.

I disagree. I think he would go after Girard's gate because he is more familiar with the terrain and would have a better chance of finding it. I could be wrong but without this Nale won't show up till the very end of the comic. and as a minor reaccuring villan he doesn't deserve that.

[Onyavar]

No, he isn't in the Empires of BST.

A previous poster assumed that he's with girard. I somehow doubt that since Girard doesn't like lawful types.
But I would like Nale trying to pretend that he's CG/NG-ish type and advances Girard, poisoning the mind of Girard so that the OotS will have an extra hard time to convince Girard of their good intents. This, somehow, get's the Gate destroyed - while Xykon was late and arrived only moments before the PCs destroyed the Gate. Hilarious!

[Morquard]

One reason why he might NOT show up in the EoB:

Nale left Azure City with the comment that he wouldn't get the amount of spotlight he deserves when he fights the order in a city where Xykon is currently rampaging.
He might feel the same way about the EoB, there his Dad would be the main villain, and he be delegated to sideshow-villain duty, something he couldn't stomach.

On the other hand it would be the perfect time to take his revenge on father and brother at the same time.

So... I dunno. :)

[NerfTW]

I disagree. I think he would go after Girard's gate because he is more familiar with the terrain and would have a better chance of finding it. I could be wrong but without this Nale won't show up till the very end of the comic. and as a minor reaccuring villan he doesn't deserve that.

He's not really "minor" anymore. We now know he's dealing with the three fiends (unknowingly), and that they are major players. And given his original quest, to get the talisman and control an army, we can infer that any attempt to take back his father's kingdom would be after he gets an army or the power to do so. Such as by taking over a gate. A gate filled with monsters.

So again, he knows there's two gates, one in a country that wants him arrested on sight, and another in a land where he's completely unknown. He's going to go for Kraagor's gate.

Not to mention how much I disagree with Nale not getting to be a part of the final battle. He's major enough, and Sabine works for the fiends. He's going to be there, even if he does show up here first.

[Dr.Epic]

Yes, of course Nale is in the city! So is Xykon, Red Cloak, the two assassins, Therkla and Miko brought back from the dead, and the Three Fiends.

[Seraphem]

I doubt as well that he'd go near his dad's area again, most likely he's busy trying to find Kraagor's gate and we'll see him once the Order some how screws up protecting Girard's gate and heads there.

[Ron Miel]

So again, he knows there's two gates, one in a country that wants him arrested on sight, and another in a land where he's completely unknown. He's going to go for Kraagor's gate.

Girard's gate isn't in EOB. It's somewhere in the desert.

[Gift Jeraff]

He's not really "minor" anymore. We now know he's dealing with the three fiends (unknowingly), and that they are major players.
Heck, even before the fiends made it evident the LG is part of a larger scheme, I always considered Nale the 9th most significant character (right below Redcloak and Xykon, of course). Not only because of number of appearances, but because, unlike Team Evil, there's an actual "relationship" between him and the protagonists.

[dps]

Nale stated that he isn't interested in this evil opposite theme anymore. I don't think he's hiring, at least not unqualified hirelings, such as Pompey.

Further more he has information about the existance of the gates on equal level as the order and knows what gate they're headed to.

I guess he'd be gathering information about the gate the order is not headed towards and trying to win a race of taking it under his control, before the good guys and Xykon arrives there for a final showdown confrontation.

Really, Nale have the sufficient cards to win now

Now really. Even if he manages to sieze control of Kraagor's Gate (or Giraud's Gate, for that matter), he doesn't have any idea what to do with it then.

[Fish]

Girard's gate isn't in EOB. It's somewhere in the desert.
Maybe. It could be that a completely random spot in the middle of the world's largest desert (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) is exactly the one place it isn't.

Or it could be in a slightly different spot in a superficially similar desert. Or the gate could be right under everybody's nose, in the city, right where they are now. It could be ... anywhere, for all we know.

[cho_j]

While I kinda want to see Nale turn up in this arc, just because the strips with him tend to be hilarious and/or dramatic, I'm not sure the evidence from the OP is enough for me to think the Linear Guild is here.

For one thing, as has been mentioned, the elf glaring at V seems less an evil opposite and more... an elf. Like, a legitimate ambassador from elven lands. I'm more convinced by the speculation in other threads that all the glaring in V's direction is related to Darth V's actions.

And for another, the kobold in prison seemed more like... any other random prisoner? There are plenty of lizardfolk in the EoB, as has been said/shown many times in the comic, so it makes sense that there's a kobold locked up in Bloodstone with everyone else.

[Ron Miel]

Maybe. It could be that a completely random spot in the middle of the world's largest desert (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0694.html) is exactly the one place it isn't.

Or it could be in a slightly different spot in a superficially similar desert. Or the gate could be right under everybody's nose, in the city, right where they are now. It could be ... anywhere, for all we know.

Soon was right there when they discovered and sealed the gate. He might not know the exact co-ordinates, having trusted Girard's information, but he does know the approximate location. He knows that they travelled for so many days in a particular direction. Girard's fake gate might be 20 miles from the real location, but not much more than that. And it's certainly somewhere in the desert, not in the city.

[Prowl]

In the first place, Nale isn't all that smart, despite his opinion of himself.

I'm not saying he's the genius he thinks he is, but his weak point is WIS, not INT. He needs to have a reasonable INT to cast spells in the first place. He has already demonstrated above-average INT in his planning, and the "needlessly complicated" nature of those plans is typical of a high-INT/low-WIS combination.

Based on his behavior and vocabulary I'd estimate Nale at 13-15 INT and 8-9 WIS.

[Fitzclowningham]

I'm not saying he's the genius he thinks he is, but his weak point is WIS, not INT. He needs to have a reasonable INT to cast spells in the first place. He has already demonstrated above-average INT in his planning, and the "needlessly complicated" nature of those plans is typical of a high-INT/low-WIS combination.

Based on his behavior and vocabulary I'd estimate Nale at 13-15 INT and 8-9 WIS.

Nale's a sorceror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219), so he doesn't need INT for spells. Other than that, I mostly agree with you. If I had to guess, I'd say Nale is a 12 INT but thinks he's 16-17.

[JSSheridan]

Probably not. Every city in the Three Great Empires have wanted dead or alive posters with his mug plastered in every establishment.

If Nale makes a move, it will be away from Tarquin's sphere of influence.

[DaveMcW]

So, now's proabably a good time to mention that Nale is a wanted criminal in the Empire of Blood.

(Doh! ninja'ed)

[Fish]

Soon was right there when they discovered and sealed the gate. He might not know the exact co-ordinates, having trusted Girard's information, but he does know the approximate location.
You have drawn too many conclusions. We don't know at what point Soon would have realized the coordinates were wrong. All we know is that Girard believed Soon trusted him to report the location accurately. It's possible that Soon (or Soon's hirelings) saw immediately that the directions were bogus; it's possible he would have followed them blindly to the end. It's possible that at some point, Soon might have said, "Hang on, this isn't the right way. Wasn't it near a lake?" Just in case Soon did follow them, Girard prepared a contingency, because indeed he was betting on that very thing.

Our only dubious clue is the crayon scribble from the Azure City trial, which shows a desert-like location. But: illusion of a desert, or desert filled with illusion? Girard could have prepared more than one contingency, depending where the real gate is. Deserts and mirages are thematic with illusion, but Tarquin's tyrant shell game is too; we haven't many solid facts to build on.

[Ron Miel]

You have drawn too many conclusions. We don't know at what point Soon would have realized the coordinates were wrong.

They have to be fairly close, or Soon would have realized instantly.

For example, suppose the scribbles set out from Sandsdge, and travelled four days NorthWest. To fool him, Girard could pick a fake spot that's 3.5 days NorthWest. If he picked a fake spot that is 2 days SouthWest then Soon wouldn't be fooled for a second.

You suggested that it could be anywhere, even right there in the city. This is not possible. If it was in the city, Soon wouldn't be fooled by a fake desert location.

20 miles from the fake location would work. Close enough to fool Soon, far enough to make a search impossible.

[Bedinsis]

His current goal, as stated in #458 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0458.html), is to find and try to gain control over a Gate. Either he could have went to the Dwarven lands or the continent he grew up on. True, he had the risk of being captured by his father, but there are plenty of countries where he probably isn't wanted. I believe he is on the Western Continent, based on this. (Though the argumentation is weak.)

As of #755 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html) it has been publicly stated that Elan is in the Empire of Blood. If we assume that Nale was on the Western Continent and saw the broadcast, how would he react? (Or in the major city of Cliffport, where it's also likely that he saw the broadcast, fancy anachronistic technology and all that). If he has failed to locate the gate for the entire time Roy was dead, and the guys who, as far as he knows, possess the information of the gates' locations appears, shouldn't he try to pursuit them, from the shadows? Or if he hasn't really been looking for the gates while Roy was dead, at least he should try to do something when he finds out where the guys who slighted him are.

[Fish]

They have to be fairly close, or Soon would have realized instantly.
No, they didn't have to be close — Girard even says he rolled percentile dice to see where the coordinates would be. Girard could have sent coordinates that said anything whatsoever. I know you insist that the coordinates would have to be "close" or "believable" or something, but they didn't, at all.

For one thing, if you're a paladin traveling with an epic-level sorcerer and an epic-level illusionist, you probably aren't doing a lot of walking around on foot, sailing, renting horses, following the terrain, and all that tedious stuff. Soon might not even have known which continent they were on when they found that Gate.

For another thing, terrain changes. There wasn't a city at the Azure City rift until they built a city around the rift.

[Ron Miel]

No, they didn't have to be close — Girard even says he rolled percentile dice to see where the coordinates would be. Girard could have sent coordinates that said anything whatsoever. I know you insist that the coordinates would have to be "close" or "believable" or something, but they didn't, at all.

We'll have to disagree on this point. I won't argue any further.



For another thing, terrain changes. There wasn't a city at the Azure City rift until they built a city around the rift.

Yes there was. Soon specifically mentions getting back to Azure City.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html

They built the palace around the rift, possibly, but the city was there already. Presumably before the palace, the rift was a tiny little dot, high in the air, which was too small and too high for people to see.

[t209]

My prediction: Nale shows up out of nowhere having gained a bunch of levels (Elan did, so as his rival, Nale must as well) and with new allies, to overthrow the Empress of Blood and finish what he started. Elan must ally with Tarquin save his father's life and to stop Nale.

Or found him in chains and in underwear ;working on mining.

[RMcMurtry]

I expect Nale will show up. If nothing else, because he can't stand the idea that Elan will form a decent relationship with their father when he couldn't. Tarquin might even name Elan his heir, and Nale would never risk everything he wants going to Elan. Disguising himself wouldn't be too hard.

[Ron Miel]

They built the palace around the rift, possibly, but the city was there already. Presumably before the palace, the rift was a tiny little dot, high in the air, which was too small and too high for people to see.

Actually, scrub this. The gate, once bound inside the gemstone, is moveable. It was taken to the lord's palace, and set in his throne. See Soon gave the gem to the lord here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

[hamishspence]

This picture does show a rift high in the air:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html

and here, Hinjo does explain that the castle had to be built around the sapphire:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0411.html

So it's possible that the gem Soon is giving Shojo's father, is not the same gem. Maybe it's a "symbol of office" so to speak?

Or The Giant simply, when writing Hinjo's explanation, didn't notice that the earlier strip can be taken as Soon handing over the "gate-gem" to Shojo's father.

[Ron Miel]

Okay, good points there.

[Kish]

Elan must ally with Tarquin save his father's life and to stop Nale.
Why would Elan want to save his father's life?

If Elan intervened to stop a horrific torturing, mass-murdering rapist villain who he currently has no means of stopping from being killed by a much less dangerous and no more evil villain, my already-not-high respect for him would plummet.

[Gift Jeraff]

Or maybe it is the Gate gem, but Dorukan and Lirian didn't use it to seal the rift yet (i.e. it's like a spell component).

[Dvandemon]

I'm sorry but first thought that popped into my head was that song. Nale's in the city with OoTS, Nale's in the city I know~~~~!I find it very unlikely for Nale to be in the city but wouldn't be surprised if any people connected to him (similar to Tarquin) were there (maybe...the Champion?)

[RMcMurtry]

No, they didn't have to be close — Girard even says he rolled percentile dice to see where the coordinates would be. Girard could have sent coordinates that said anything whatsoever. I know you insist that the coordinates would have to be "close" or "believable" or something, but they didn't, at all.

For one thing, if you're a paladin traveling with an epic-level sorcerer and an epic-level illusionist, you probably aren't doing a lot of walking around on foot, sailing, renting horses, following the terrain, and all that tedious stuff. Soon might not even have known which continent they were on when they found that Gate.

For another thing, terrain changes. There wasn't a city at the Azure City rift until they built a city around the rift.

Actually, rolling percentile dice doesn't really prove anything. We don't know what any particular result MEANT. Nevertheless, each of them took the rift closest to their own homeland--unless Girard was lying about his homeland the whole time they were traveling together, Soon has a rough idea of where it is. As mentioned, Soon himself was probably there at one point or another. The best lies contain some element of truth. A completely random location would be suspicious. A random location close enough to the actual spot... where Soon might find the landmarks he associated with the spot but run into the trap anyway... would serve Girard better.

And don't forget that we've not seen any indication that Lirian or Dorukan shared Girard's paranoia. If the location was really far off, Soon might have checked with them.

[EmperorSarda]

Honestly, does Nale even know the precise location of the Gates? Cause as far as I was aware, only Shojo and Roy knew the coordinates, right? So Nale only knows indefinite locations. So the odds are highly unlikely that Nale will be in his father's kingdom.

[TheProfessor]

Why would Elan want to save his father's life?

If Elan intervened to stop a horrific torturing, mass-murdering rapist villain who he currently has no means of stopping from being killed by a much less dangerous and no more evil villain, my already-not-high respect for him would plummet.

He would save his father's life. Remember all the Starwars analogies? Remember what Luke did to Vader when he had a chance to kill him?

Nale believes that deep down everyone is good, even his father. He doesn't want to kill his father,and he certainly wouldn't let him die if he had the chance.

[Dvandemon]

@^:You talking 'bout Nale?

[Ron Miel]

Honestly, does Nale even know the precise location of the Gates? Cause as far as I was aware, only Shojo and Roy knew the coordinates, right? So Nale only knows indefinite locations.

Maybe he asked the Oracle.

[Dvandemon]

He's on leave

@V:I sincerely hope TheProfessor was making a typo when he said Nale

[Kish]

Nale believes that deep down everyone is good, even his father.

Nale believes nothing of the kind, and there's no indication Elan, who has been willing to kill freely throughout the comic and reacted very badly when Therkla asked him to spare a villain much less vile than Tarquin, does either.

He doesn't want to kill his father,
I suppose that explains why he attacked his father then.

Elan isn't Luke and Tarquin isn't Darth Vader. (Most prominently, Tarquin isn't corrupted good; he's been pure Emperor-level evil for all the time we know about.) "This other character in this movie which the comic made joking references to did this" doesn't make up for the characters in the comic showing no sign of being like what you're claiming they are.

[Who149]

I think he meant Elan