[3.5] Mimic PC: Discuss

[Mr. Zolrane]

So I had a rather twisted idea today: A mimic PC.

I know, it sounds nuts, but think about it for a moment: Enough natural armor to make up for its inability to wear humanoid armor, no level adjustment, so that won't be an issue in a party with core PC races... and think of the possibilities for a mimic assassin... >:) thoughts?

[satorian]

It isn't LA 0; it's LA -. The former is no level adjustment; the latter means it is not suitable as a player race. That said, sure, if your DM allows it, you could still play one. However, said DM, if s/he is worth any salt, would slap a pretty high LA on it. My guess is that RHD plus LA would be in the neighborhood of 10.

I guess it might be entertaining to play a party of unusually intelligent bizarre dungeon monsters like mimics, cloakers, the floor monster, whatever that was, and even the bunny stump that eats people. For a session.

[Typewriter]

There's a homunculus that is a small chest. My DM let me play one once, and it was quite a bit of fun. I wound up making tons like myself, and then we would swarm through cities stealing everything. People were too shocked to respond half the time, so before they knew it we were gone... with all their gold.

I also had the spell that makes a stone fist come up from the ground to grapple people, but instead of grappling me I just had it hold me up. All the other little chests would swarm around and praise me.

A religion started whose symbol was an earthen hand holding a chest in its palm.

Not really the same thing you were talking about, but it reminded me of good times :P

[Mr. Zolrane]

It isn't LA 0; it's LA -. The former is no level adjustment; the latter means it is not suitable as a player race. That said, sure, if your DM allows it, you could still play one. However, said DM, if s/he is worth any salt, would slap a pretty high LA on it. My guess is that RHD plus LA would be in the neighborhood of 10.

I guess it might be entertaining to play a party of unusually intelligent bizarre dungeon monsters like mimics, cloakers, the floor monster, whatever that was, and even the bunny stump that eats people. For a session.

Oh, I see. Sorry, a bit of a newb here, so the LA business tripped me up. This might also be the newbness talking, but why so high an adjustment? As best I can tell, the only thing really exceptional about a mimic is its Disguise check and shape changing. Those could be potent in an ambush situation, but beyond that I don't see what the issue would be.

[Telonius]

Let's see, so the base stats would be +8 STR, +2 DEX, +6 CON, +2 WIS. It's Large, which adds 1 to the CR right there. CR isn't the same thing as LA, but it's probably worth it in this case.

Taking away the adjustments for size, that leaves you with +4 DEX, +2 CON, +2 WIS. +3 natural armor (Large gives an additional +2, to get the +5 in the stat block), +8 racial bonus to disguise, bonus damage on grapples, acid immunity, adhesive, and (basically) Disguise Self at will. If I had to eyeball it, I'd say that collection of abilities is a Level Adjustment of 3, minimum. Add the fact that it's Large and an Aberration (therefore immune to any of the "x Person" spells) and I'd call this LA +4. So a Mimic character would be starting out at 7RHD+4LA= 11.

[Mr. Zolrane]

Oh... I see. Well, I suppose if I ever decide to do it I'll have to homebrew it down into something more reasonable. The reason I wanted to do this in the first place was just because I found the concept hilarious.

Fine, fine, so the core Mimic doesn't really work as a PC. What about Mimics with player classes as enemies? The aforementioned assassin? Tell me you wouldn't freak out after being successfully death attacked by a block in the wall. :smalltongue:

[Zaydos]

I'd give it +3 LA; it has some nice abilities but aberration hit dice are pretty bad and immunity to X person spells is pretty worthless especially at 10th+ level when they're using X monster anyway.

[Marnath]

If you're going to do this, you should also have a rust monster PC and a gelatinous cube PC.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Tell me you wouldn't freak out after being successfully death attacked by a block in the wall. :smalltongue:

I wouldn't. I'd be to busy being dead. :smalltongue:

Edit: Looking at the Mimic's MM entry, I'm going to say that I'd allow it into my games as...oh...a 5th or 6th level PC. The monster is CR 4, and really doesn't have any truly impressive abilities, so I wouldn't punish a player for an interesting selection by throwing them in a game 6+ levels above their character's ability. I'd probably give them the full 7 hit dice and let them count as level 5-6 for leveling purposes as well...the Mimic really doesn't bring anything game-breaking to the table.

[Typewriter]

Oh... I see. Well, I suppose if I ever decide to do it I'll have to homebrew it down into something more reasonable. The reason I wanted to do this in the first place was just because I found the concept hilarious.

Fine, fine, so the core Mimic doesn't really work as a PC. What about Mimics with player classes as enemies? The aforementioned assassin? Tell me you wouldn't freak out after being successfully death attacked by a block in the wall. :smalltongue:

I think the homunculus I mentioned was in an eberron book, possibly for artificers....

Might be an easier starting point than homebrew :P

[Mr. Zolrane]

I wouldn't. I'd be to busy being dead. :smalltongue:

Touche




Edit: Looking at the Mimic's MM entry, I'm going to say that I'd allow it into my games as...oh...a 5th or 6th level PC. The monster is CR 4, and really doesn't have any truly impressive abilities, so I wouldn't punish a player for an interesting selection by throwing them in a game 6+ levels above their character's ability. I'd probably give them the full 7 hit dice and let them count as level 5-6 for leveling purposes as well...the Mimic really doesn't bring anything game-breaking to the table.

Yeah, that was honestly my thought when I read the entry. It didn't seem to ridiculous to me, but I've only been playing DnD for about six months, so I wasn't sure. What class, do you think would work for it? As I stated before, assassin sounds like it would be both practical and hilarious, but barbarian might be a good choice as well: fast movement would give the Mimic some much-needed mobility (though it would still be slow).



I think the homunculus I mentioned was in an eberron book, possibly for artificers....

Might be an easier starting point than homebrew :P


From what I've read of Eberron, I find it really appealing, so that would also be another option.

[Ravens_cry]

If you're going to do this, you should also have a rust monster PC and a gelatinous cube PC.
Win . . .thread?:smallbiggrin:

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Touche

:smallbiggrin:



What class, do you think would work for it? As I stated before, assassin sounds like it would be both practical and hilarious, but barbarian might be a good choice as well: fast movement would give the Mimic some much-needed mobility (though it would still be slow).

Barbarian would be quite good, given the stats. Assassin could work as well. Honestly, most things that aren't casters could work well.


From what I've read of Eberron, I find it really appealing, so that would also be another option.

Eberron is the best. That is all.


Win . . .thread?:smallbiggrin:

Definitely. Mimic Rogue, Gelatinous Cube Unarmed Swordsage (SWOOPING DRAGON PSUEDOPOD STRIKE!), Rust Monster Crusader (come on...hit me), and...um...crap. I'm out of hilarious but effective things for casters (off the top of my head, at least).

[The Glyphstone]

Before someone beats me to the link. (http://rustyandco.com)

[Khatoblepas]

Let's see, so the base stats would be +8 STR, +2 DEX, +6 CON, +2 WIS. It's Large, which adds 1 to the CR right there. CR isn't the same thing as LA, but it's probably worth it in this case.

Taking away the adjustments for size, that leaves you with +4 DEX, +2 CON, +2 WIS. +3 natural armor (Large gives an additional +2, to get the +5 in the stat block), +8 racial bonus to disguise, bonus damage on grapples, acid immunity, adhesive, and (basically) Disguise Self at will. If I had to eyeball it, I'd say that collection of abilities is a Level Adjustment of 3, minimum. Add the fact that it's Large and an Aberration (therefore immune to any of the "x Person" spells) and I'd call this LA +4. So a Mimic character would be starting out at 7RHD+4LA= 11.

By level 11, a mage has 5th level spells, a Warblade has 5th level manuevers and lots of HP, and a Changeling has Disguise Self at will at LA+0.

In terms of grappling, only it's Adhesive makes it a threat... to level 4 parties. 1d8+Str damage with a grapple check is paltry, and conditional on getting to grapple people. The Mimic has poor Strength for a Large creature focused on grappling, (an ogre has more... and with less base ECL), Abberation hit dice make it have poor BAB so by the time you're level 11, your adhesive is worthless and your grappling pitiful.

And a +8 racial bonus to Disguise is mitigated by your +4 LA, which takes away 4 ranks, not to mention Disguise is cross class for Mimics, so they only get 5 ranks with their RHD.

Natural armor is alright, but Mimics can't really wear normal armor, being shapeshifters. It's nothing ridiculous. Druids can get that much natural armor without trying, so can mages. In fact, by level 11, a mage could polymorph someone into a Mimic and get everything a mimic has + 11 levels in a class.

Also, size adjustments don't work that way. A Mimic is naturally large. You don't judge LA by removing all size down to Medium.

By adding so much LA, you just made playing a Mimic completely worthless.

If it was me DMing, I would cut down it's RHD by 2, leaving it with 5HD. That's probably still overcharging the player, but if you cut down the size to medium, and reduce the strength boosts, you could probably get away with 2RHD.

Then again, I do play in rather high powered games. :P Balance them with Warblades, Beguilers and Factotums, not Fighters and Monks. They've got to be an attractive option, not suicide.

If I were to keep it's 7RHD, I'd probably throw them a little bone, like +3d6 sneak attack. No LA, though. Monsters need more love, not more LA. :(

[Telonius]

By level 11, a mage has 5th level spells, a Warblade has 5th level manuevers and lots of HP, and a Changeling has Disguise Self at will at LA+0.

In terms of grappling, only it's Adhesive makes it a threat... to level 4 parties. 1d8+Str damage with a grapple check is paltry, and conditional on getting to grapple people. The Mimic has poor Strength for a Large creature focused on grappling, (an ogre has more... and with less base ECL), Abberation hit dice make it have poor BAB so by the time you're level 11, your adhesive is worthless and your grappling pitiful.

And a +8 racial bonus to Disguise is mitigated by your +4 LA, which takes away 4 ranks, not to mention Disguise is cross class for Mimics, so they only get 5 ranks with their RHD.

Natural armor is alright, but Mimics can't really wear normal armor, being shapeshifters. It's nothing ridiculous. Druids can get that much natural armor without trying, so can mages. In fact, by level 11, a mage could polymorph someone into a Mimic and get everything a mimic has + 11 levels in a class.

Also, size adjustments don't work that way. A Mimic is naturally large. You don't judge LA by removing all size down to Medium.

By adding so much LA, you just made playing a Mimic completely worthless.

If it was me DMing, I would cut down it's RHD by 2, leaving it with 5HD. That's probably still overcharging the player, but if you cut down the size to medium, and reduce the strength boosts, you could probably get away with 2RHD.

Then again, I do play in rather high powered games. :P Balance them with Warblades, Beguilers and Factotums, not Fighters and Monks. They've got to be an attractive option, not suicide.

If I were to keep it's 7RHD, I'd probably throw them a little bone, like +3d6 sneak attack. No LA, though. Monsters need more love, not more LA. :(

Absolutely, I'd fully endorse cutting down the RHD. I normally do whenever I get a player who wants to play a monstrous race - either lose a few/all or write up a savage progression. But if I'm trying to put this thing in the standard range of LA for monsters in the MM, I'd say +4 would be about par. (That is, just as worthless to play as most of the other monsters in the MM).

But okay, so we're leaving the Large stuff in there and tossing out the RHD. We're still looking at a creature with +8 STR, +2DEX, +6CON, and +2WIS, with a bunch of other goodies thrown in. That still sounds like a pretty powerful creature. If I'm building any kind of a grappler or melee combatant, there's no question that I'd want to take it unless the LA was fairly high. LA+3? Absolutely, no question. LA+5, a bit too expensive. LA+4 sounds about right.

[Thurbane]

If you don't mind being evil, Soul Eater would be a great PrC for a Mimic.