Just to be clear, you can't wear Armor and Bracers at the same time?

[Sims]

Unless you have that Additional Magic Item Epic feat, you can't wear Bracers at the same time as Armor since it covers your arms right?

[The Rose Dragon]

You can. Armor covers the Body slot, while Bracers cover the Arm slot.

[ZeroNumerous]

This handy guide might help you out (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities).

Mind, armor and Bracers of Armor won't stack, but they're wearable together.

[Tyger]

Yup, you most certainly can wear both. You can't get stacking benefits though, which is where a lot of people go wrong.

Bracers of Armor +4 grant an Armor bonus, which doesn't stack with actual armor providing Armor bonuses.

But Bracers of Archery and Full Plate +3 work just fine together.

[gbprime]

Unless you have that Additional Magic Item Epic feat, you can't wear Bracers at the same time as Armor since it covers your arms right?

You can wear them at the same time, yes. But they don't STACK, which is what you seem to be asking.

Armor provides an ARMOR BONUS to AC. Bracers of Defense also provide an ARMOR BONUS to AC. If you have both, you take the better of the two.

Now magic armor also provides an ENHANCEMENT BONUS to AC. And that would stack with Bracers of Defense. In that bizarre circumstance, +1 leather armor and +4 bracers of defense would result in +5 to your AC. (4 ARMOR for the bracers, 2 ARMOR for the leather (which is ignored since they don't stack), and 1 ENHANCEMENT for the leather.

[Douglas]

Now magic armor also provides an ENHANCEMENT BONUS to AC. And that would stack with Bracers of Defense. In that bizarre circumstance, +1 leather armor and +4 bracers of defense would result in +5 to your AC. (4 ARMOR for the bracers, 2 ARMOR for the leather (which is ignored since they don't stack), and 1 ENHANCEMENT for the leather.
Not exactly. The +1 on the armor is an enhancement bonus to the armor's armor bonus, not a direct enhancement bonus to your AC. That works out to +4 from the bracers and +3 from the armor, both of them armor bonuses, and a total result of +4 because they don't stack.

[gbprime]

Not exactly. The +1 on the armor is an enhancement bonus to the armor's armor bonus, not a direct enhancement bonus to your AC. That works out to +4 from the bracers and +3 from the armor, both of them armor bonuses, and a total result of +4 because they don't stack.

Ah, but a +1 Ring of Protection adds it's Enhancement bonuses to YOUR saves, not just it's saves. the armor enhances your AC, not it's own AC.

[Bibliomancer]

Ah, but a +1 Ring of Protection adds it's Enhancement bonuses to YOUR saves, not just it's saves. the armor enhances your AC, not it's own AC.

It adds a deflection bonus, not an enhancement bonus. To my knowledge, enhancement bonuses usually only apply to armor (and stats).

[gbprime]

It adds a deflection bonus, not an enhancement bonus.

Sorry, meant cloak of resistance, not ring of protection. Old school mistake. :smallredface:

[Bibliomancer]

Sorry, meant cloak of resistance, not ring of protection. Old school mistake. :smallredface:

No worries. I'm not clear on the distinction, but I think the enhancement bonus only applies to that specific armor. Otherwise you could wear multiple layers of + 1 padded armor (even though you're only 'wearing' one) to get a very high armor bonus.

[Sims]

So you can have Heavy Fortification Armor and +5 Bracers?

[The Rose Dragon]

So you can have Heavy Fortification Armor and +5 Bracers?

+5 Bracers of... what?

[Bibliomancer]

+5 Bracers of... what?

Armor Class, maybe? There are the most common type, and possibly the oldest (I know they were around at least as far back as AD&D).

[gbprime]

No worries. I'm not clear on the distinction, but I think the enhancement bonus only applies to that specific armor. Otherwise you could wear multiple layers of + 1 padded armor (even though you're only 'wearing' one) to get a very high armor bonus.

No, it applies to the person wearing it. Only the best bonus of each kind applies.

Take Magic Vestment, for example. You give your normal clothing an Enhancement bonus and it stacks with your Bracers of Defense. If it applied only to your clothing, that stack would not work.

[Vladislav]

gbprime, since apparently one person telling you you're wrong isn't enough, allow me to second: you're wrong.


enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC

A suit of leather armor+1 does NOT provide +2 Armor bonus and +1 enhancement bonus. It provides a +3 armor bonus.

[Douglas]

Take Magic Vestment, for example. You give your normal clothing an Enhancement bonus and it stacks with your Bracers of Defense. If it applied only to your clothing, that stack would not work.
Exactly. It doesn't work.

A Ring of Protection provides a deflection bonus to the character's AC. A Cloak of Resistance provides a resistance bonus to the character's saves. A suit of armor provides an armor bonus to the character's AC. A magical enhancement on a suit of armor provides an enhancement bonus to the armor's bonus. This is different, and it is the reason the +1s from +1 armor and a +1 shield stack - each +1 is to a different thing, so despite being the same type stacking just doesn't come up directly, and then the armor and shield bonuses they affect are different types and do stack.

Incidentally, an Amulet of Natural Armor provides an enhancement bonus to your natural armor bonus, which means it stacks with a racial natural armor bonus.

[gbprime]

So you can have Heavy Fortification Armor and +5 Bracers?

Yes, but it's not effective. Bracers of Armor are an armor bonus. and whatever you have heavy fortification on is an armor bonus. those don't stack.

So +1 leather of Heavy Fortification together with +5 bracers of armor... you have 5 armor, +1 for the leather, and you have Heavy fortification. That's only a few hundred gold cheaper than +1 breastplate of Heavy Fortification, and you're wearing 25,000 gp bracers to get it.

Not much of a savings.

[Sims]

+5 Bracers of... what?

+5 Bracers of Armor :D

[gbprime]

A suit of leather armor+1 does NOT provide +2 Armor bonus and +1 enhancement bonus. It provides a +3 armor bonus.

Hmm. I stand corrected. been looking at the exception for Magic Vestment wrong for quite some time then.

Okay, scratch that. :smallfrown:

Mental note to clobber local DM over the head, and myself for not thinking it through.

[Flickerdart]

Yes, but it's not effective. Bracers of Armor are an armor bonus. and whatever you have heavy fortification on is an armor bonus. those don't stack.

So +1 leather of Heavy Fortification together with +5 bracers of armor... you have 5 armor, +1 for the leather, and you have Heavy fortification. That's only a few hundred gold cheaper than +1 breastplate of Heavy Fortification, and you're wearing 25,000 gp bracers to get it.

Not much of a savings.
IIRC you can only get Heavy Fort on Heavy armour.

[gbprime]

IIRC you can only get Heavy Fort on Heavy armour.

Okay, where does it say THAT?

[Douglas]

Okay, where does it say THAT?
It doesn't, he's recalling incorrectly.

[gbprime]

It doesn't, he's recalling incorrectly.

Well this does seem to be a good thread in which to do that... :smallredface:

[Yuki Akuma]

An enhancement bonus on a suit of armour or a shield is an enhancement bonus to its own armour bonus.

Bracers of Armour, being based on the spell Mage Armour, grant an armour bonus to AC, which does not stack with the armour bonus from armour.

A suit of +3 padded armour has an armour bonus of +4. If you wear Bracers of Armour +3, the armour overrides the Bracers, so you still have a +4 armour bonus to AC.

If you wore a Ring or Protection +3, which grants a deflection bonus to AC, you could have the +4 from the armour and the +3 from the ring.

[Swooper]

A very dubious reading of the bracers of armour/regular armour interaction goes something like this:

According to the MIC (the list of magic items by price at the back of the book), the bracers do in fact give enhancement bonus and not armour bonus. So, if you wear +1 full plate and +5 bracers of armour, your AC will be 10+8 (full plate) + 5 (the bracers' enhancement bonus is higher than and doesn't stack with the enhancement bonus on the armour) = 23. You can now add heavy fortification or whatever you want to your +1 full plate at a lower cost than it'd take to add it to a suit of +5 full plate.

Personally, I tend to allow this because everyone just buys +1 armour anyway and lets the local cleric cast Magic Vestment on it every day. If they want to spend thousands of gold pieces and a slot to proof themselves against Dispelling and possibly save a single 3rd level divine slot (or if there's no cleric/FS/archivist in the party)... go ahead.

[Bakkan]

According to the MIC (the list of magic items by price at the back of the book), the bracers do in fact give enhancement bonus and not armour bonus.

Ah, but the actual text entry for Bracers of Armor in the DMG p 250 clearly states that the bracers give an armor bonus to AC. Since this is a case of text vs table, text should win and the bracers give an armor bonus. Further, this is supported by the Magic Item Compendium page 234, where it states that the cost for a +1 armor bonus to AC (which doesn't stack with normal armor) should be 1000, the cost of +1 Bracers of armor. The cost for all other listed +1 AC items which stack with armor is 2000, so the evidence is clear that the MiC table entry stating that the Bracers of Armor give an enhancement bonus is incorrect.

[Yuki Akuma]

And besides, MIC is not the primary source on magic items. The DMG is.

[Swooper]

I'm aware, I was just pointing out it was a fair house rule.

[Vladislav]

I'm aware, I was just pointing out it was a fair house rule.If it's a house rule, you don't need to justify it with dubious reading (which by the way, is not dubious, but outright wrong). Just say "this is how it works in my game" and that's that. Really. You have the right to do so. But please, don't confuse this thread even more than it's already confused by pretending this has some basis in the actual rules as they are printed.

[John Campbell]

To sum up the confusion:

If you have +1 heavy fortification leather armor and +5 bracers of armor, you can wear these both at the same time, because the armor occupies the body slot and the bracers occupy the arms slot.

The armor provides a +3 armor bonus (+2 base, +1 enhancement to its armor bonus) to AC, and the bracers provide a +5 armor bonus to AC. These are both armor bonuses, so they do not stack; only the +5 from the bracers (because it's bigger) actually applies to your AC.

You do get the non-AC effects from the armor, though, which include the heavy fortification, ACP and ASF, and the max Dex-to-AC limit.

[Tavar]

And besides, MIC is not the primary source on magic items. The DMG is.

Moreover, even if it said that in the same book, Text trumps table. The table says and enhancement bonus, the text says armor bonus. Text wins.

[gbprime]

Moreover, even if it said that in the same book, Text trumps table. The table says and enhancement bonus, the text says armor bonus. Text wins.

Ah, yes. The Rainbow Servant Effect. :smallwink:

[theMycon]

Though, just so the OP knows this is an entirely theoretical discussion:
A Lvl 1 Pearl of Power costs as much as Bracers of Armor +1.
Almost any mage will have a level 1 slot reserved for Mage Armor.
Thus, the former is a "hours per level" +4 Armor Bonus for the price of a +1.

If you prefer, a Level 2 Pearl of Power (extended Mage Armor) Costs as much as a +2 Bracer, and provides protection for all day at any level it is available.
Note- these are only really useful if you have a non-arcane, armor free class (such as a monk or shapeshifted druid, or sorceror who just doesn't care to memorize it.)

("Greater Luminous Armor/Great Mage Armor" Pearls become useful for arcane or light armor class; and double as "Greater Magic Weapon" Pearls on days when they're not useful.)

[MeeposFire]

Gbprime you oddly described how 4e armor works. In 4e the enhancement bonus is treated as its own bonus separate from the armor bonus itself (though obviously the enhancement bonus typically comes from the armor unless you play with the optional inherent bonus rule).

There is a benefit to wearing the bracers of armor and regular magic armor. While the two bonuses do not stack they do overlap which is handy if you fight against incorporeal enemies. I do not know if it is worth buying but it is a benefit.

[herrhauptmann]

Gbprime you oddly described how 4e armor works. In 4e the enhancement bonus is treated as its own bonus separate from the armor bonus itself (though obviously the enhancement bonus typically comes from the armor unless you play with the optional inherent bonus rule).

There is a benefit to wearing the bracers of armor and regular magic armor. While the two bonuses do not stack they do overlap which is handy if you fight against incorporeal enemies. I do not know if it is worth buying but it is a benefit.

Armor crystal of warding is significantly cheaper, and grants you an AC bonus vs incorporeal touch attacks. That's an item slot which is easier to change out for a given fight, and less heavily missed than say "strongarm bracers".

If you want your vambraces to stack with your regular armor, you can take the Vambraces of Warding, which grants a small Sacred bonus to AC vs ranged attacks. Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if the wording would also include touch attacks or not, like a ghost with Kensai PrC, or a wizards Ray spell.

[MeeposFire]

Like I said, it is probably not worth buying but it is not worthless especially if you do not have access to various items for whatever reason.

[Curmudgeon]

Take Magic Vestment, for example. You give your normal clothing an Enhancement bonus and it stacks with your Bracers of Defense. If it applied only to your clothing, that stack would not work.
This would work, but only in a single item. Here's how:

1) Start with the right clothing.
Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:
You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

IIRC you can only get Heavy Fort on Heavy armour.
You don't need any armor for fortification. A Gemstone of Fortification (Draconomicon, page 83) can provide that capability without you needing any armor at all. There's no need to bump up the price of your armor needlessly to get such useful protection.

[MeeposFire]

Doesn't the gemstone require a natural armor bonus of 1 or more (not that it is hard to obtain but still worth mentioning).

[Tavar]

I believe that the gemstone requires a hefty natural armor bonus(that, if memory serves me right, can't be due to an enhancement bonus), though I don't have that book on me at the moment, so I could be thinking of some other item from the book.

[Curmudgeon]

Doesn't the gemstone require a natural armor bonus of 1 or more (not that it is hard to obtain but still worth mentioning).
No; it requires nothing after attachment. True dragons just pop it into their scales; others need a casting of Limited Wish.

As I said, this fortification has no connection to armor whatsoever; that includes requirements.

[Tytalus]

1) Start with the right clothing.
2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8)
3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:


An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.



I'd argue that strongly enchanted clothing is no longer an "outfit of regular clothing". YMMV.