Players with Summons/Zombie hordes

[Darth Stabber]

Is it unreasonable to make players stat out their summons/controlled undead/astral constructs well in advance. I hate getting bogged down while someone is slipping like a mad man through the MM trying to apply template X to creature Y and they never use the same one twice. If they are just summoning a celestial monkey to spring a trap i don't make them do anybook keeping (but the monkey will absolutely go away afterward), but I want hard numbers for anything involved in combat rounds.

Also is it unreasonable to put a limit on how many different things an individual caster can summon on one of those spells? Would a rule of 1flying, 1 ground and 1 aquatic per Summon Monster level be appropriate?

[Silva Stormrage]

Is it unreasonable to make players stat out their summons/controlled undead/astral constructs well in advance. I hate getting bogged down while someone is slipping like a mad man through the MM trying to apply template X to creature Y and they never use the same one twice. If they are just summoning a celestial monkey to spring a trap i don't make them do anybook keeping (but the monkey will absolutely go away afterward), but I want hard numbers for anything involved in combat rounds.

Also is it unreasonable to put a limit on how many different things an individual caster can summon on one of those spells? Would a rule of 1flying, 1 ground and 1 aquatic per Summon Monster level be appropriate?

No I think it is completely fine for the Players to have their summon's stats out. If they don't have the stats ready at the beginning of their turn than they can't use them.

I disagree with the second point though. Especially with a malconvoker it would limit them tremendously. If you put any type of a cap it shouldn't be based on what their movement types are. Maybe a cap of 1/Casting Ability Modifier. The caster has a cap but it is pretty large and makes them think twice against summoning lower level things because it eats into their cap. Look at the Complete Psionic version of Astral Construct limiting the construct to 1 at a time ruined the power completely.

[Thefurmonger]

Anyone that uses summons in my games must have them FULLY stated out before useing them.

Why fully you ask?

Well it's so I can look it over and make sure they didn't screw up adding the 2 templates and 3 feats to the creature. Seriously sometimes people make mistakes.

Dont have it statted up? use it base out of the MM.

If you play a summoner, come prepared.

[Amnestic]

Anyone that uses summons in my games must have them FULLY stated out before useing them.

Why fully you ask?

Well it's so I can look it over and make sure they didn't screw up adding the 2 templates and 3 feats to the creature. Seriously sometimes people make mistakes.

Dont have it statted up? use it base out of the MM.

If you play a summoner, come prepared.

Emphatically "this". If you plan to use summoned units, you best have them pre-statted, or be willing to use the base creature out the sourcebook. It's completely understandable.



Also is it unreasonable to put a limit on how many different things an individual caster can summon on one of those spells? Would a rule of 1flying, 1 ground and 1 aquatic per Summon Monster level be appropriate?

This I disagree with though. If they can summon monsters, they can summon monsters. If they've got it ready (and it's within the rules), let them summon it. That seems unnecessary and needlessly restrictive to me.

[Darth Stabber]

Probably right. I guess it's not a problem if they stat the darn things up.

To those of you that do not GM, please remember that we put a lot of work into these sessions, choosing the right monsters to challenge you, and getting all the stats ready, scripting encounters and roleplaying everyone that is not you. We have our hands full. Barring some sort of house rules that alter things significantly, you keep track of summons, astral constructs, Homunculi, golems, college roomates, dread companion, cohorts, followers, controlled undead, animal companions, planar allies, mounts, trained animals, familiars, item familiars, intelligent items and any other thing that "belongs" to your character. All of these things are optional, if you don't want the work don't use them. And when I say keep track, I mean before you come to the session, have them with all templates and relevant feats and bonuses applied (i'm looking at you augment summoning and corpsecrafter lines), and be able to quickly apply buff spells to them and yourself to avoid bogging everyone down. If you only have celestial badgers stated, but you want a celestial monkey, TOO BAD YOU CAN SUMMON THE DARN BADGER AND BE GREATFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY!!! OH, YOU FORGOT TO FACTOR IN AUGMENT SUMMONING, TOO BAD, BADGERS NOT GETTING THOSE BONUSES NOW!!!

Also have the spell sections of the books that your character is using marked for easy access, or better yet write the spell descriptions in a notebook to reference when you need to. I don't need to spend 20 minutes helping you search book after book for you to figure out the book the spell you want the BBEG is going to resist anyway. Know what your feats do, or write them down. I don't want to pause for 5 minutes because you don't remember if your feats cover this particular situation to give you a +1 on the roll.

[Amnestic]

Who would want to summon a celestial monkey over a celestial badger anyway? That's just silly! :smalltongue:

[FelixG]

Who would want to summon a celestial monkey over a celestial badger anyway? That's just silly! :smalltongue:

Because they want to spring a trap, not win the game! :smallwink:

[Darth Stabber]

Because they want to spring a trap, not win the game! :smallwink:

Precisely. Celestial Monkeys have the special ability "Trapspringer"
They count as whatever would trip any trap that they are in same 5' square as.

Badgers just kick butt and chew bubble gum, and summoned ones don't materialize with bubble gum.