[3.5]Help creating a mirror party

[LansXero]

Hello.

In my current campaign the party is exploring a set of caves that belong to a drow cult heavily based off WH's slaanesh cultists. They havent so much as seen a single drow yet, but been exposed to increasingly corrupting and twisting traps and events. My idea is that these drow get their high off other people's suffering and even more when they force 'good' people to inflict it upon other unsuspecting 'good' folks. (good as in, not psychotically homicidal like the drow).

Anyways, since the party has thus far been able to beat encounters with a CR higher than they should (which is a good thing) I was thinking of pitting them at the end against a similar, mirror-like group of adventurers who've also been through the traps and tunnels and are all the darker for it. They would be the same number as the PCs, and at most 1 level lower, and outfitted with proper Lvl 6 PC WBL (13k gp). The players are swimming in loot so it wont make much difference anyways.

So, I would like it if you guys could help me out coming up with a proper mirror party. Build specifics and equipment suggestions. would be great, but even a single sentence for a concept helps. Currently, the party is:

* Goliath Barbarian 5/Warhulk 1 (houserule ignores up to 1 LA)
* Raptoran Druid 5 / Stormcaster-ish PRC 1 with the UA variant that trades wildshape for monk and ranger bonuses.
* Human Cleric1/Paladin4/Div.Crusader 1
* Hadozee Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3
* Mindflayer 6 (from this site's homebrew class by Olescamo)

The ideas I had so far:

* For the Goliath, a Half-Giant psychic warrior. big vs big, and brute vs mind-powered. Also, large sized melee focused loot as a reward.
* For the Raptoran, Earth Genasi Druid with a focus on earth spells? Not sure how to counter or mirror a druid, and I thought burrow speed was a good oposition to fly speed, and earth theme to lightning theme.
* For the Human, who is very LG and preachy, perhaps a Blackguard? or an Evil Cleric, but since he is a more martial type I think Blackguard would be a better fit.
* For the Hadozee Im at a loss. What would be a good counter/mirror to someone who keeps climbing walls and jumping around, and fights based on agility? a more thug-like rogue? Some kind of musclebound brute?
* The mindflayer is another hard one. The player made a LG Mindflayer and came up with a half-plausible explanation, so I let it fly. Any typically-LG aberrations that could be used?

Any help would be apreciated. Thanks!

[Hazzardevil]

For the cleric, how does a gray guard sound? They have grey area morals and would make an interesting match, paticuerly if this mirror party belives that your party is corrupted by evil and detect evil always says that anything non evil is evil.

The Goliath is hard.
I think that rather than psychic warrior, use war mind. It is more useful for your plan.

The druid is difficult.
Is he a druid like Leeky Windstaff or more calm?
If he is calm try using a cleric using the entropmancer from CD. It should be interesting.

The mindflayer, Is this a psionic mindflayer?
Try a illithid slayer. That seems like a good matchup and rather ironic.
Does this mindflayer eat brains? Theres a template for a creatures controlled by a mindflayer using psionic goo somewhere. That should be good.

For the daring outlaw, (Is he a daring outlaw?) Rogue/swashbuckler.
How does a swift hunter Scout/Ranger sound. Rather than sneaking it out maneuvers stuff.

[Z3ro]

For the hadozee, how about something that restricts movement, like a tripper or bull rusher.

For the mindflayer, how about a psion? If not that, what about a ranger with favorred enemy(aberrations).

[LansXero]

For the cleric, how does a gray guard sound? They have grey area morals and would make an interesting match, paticuerly if this mirror party belives that your party is corrupted by evil and detect evil always says that anything non evil is evil.

Interesting. Where is gray guard from? And yeah, thats part of the theme, although since I try to not be railroady the party might come out even good-er; every trap has them making a choice between saving themselves or hurting others, but its possible they choose to hurt themselves or find another way out, so in that case their goodyness would be stronger.


The Goliath is hard.
I think that rather than psychic warrior, use war mind. It is more useful for your plan.

Whats WarMind's Schtick? Will check it out once Im at home and have books handy, ty.


The druid is difficult.
Is he a druid like Leeky Windstaff or more calm?
If he is calm try using a cleric using the entropmancer from CD. It should be interesting.

Very calm, usually uses shillelagh and takes the hit for the party, has been near death a lot. Also, very lightning-centered.


The mindflayer, Is this a psionic mindflayer?
Try a illithid slayer. That seems like a good matchup and rather ironic.
Does this mindflayer eat brains? Theres a template for a creatures controlled by a mindflayer using psionic goo somewhere. That should be good.

Illithid Slayer is a PRC, I think? At what level is it accesible? That would be a good setup. "Die fiend!" "But I r teh goodz!" "Yeah, as if!"


For the daring outlaw, (Is he a daring outlaw?) Rogue/swashbuckler.
How does a swift hunter Scout/Ranger sound. Rather than sneaking it out maneuvers stuff.

And instead of going melee with a rapier he justs pelts him with arrows even when its climbing. Kinda cruel, but I like it.



For the hadozee, how about something that restricts movement, like a tripper or bull rusher.

Ive used grapplers recently and Id rather not be too repetitive, but its a possibility. Spiked chain tripper?


For the mindflayer, how about a psion? If not that, what about a ranger with favorred enemy(aberrations).

The mind-flayer hunter as an enemy is an interesting idea, specially if the guy is actually well-intentioned/good.

Thanks everyone for the help!. Any ideas for loot?

[LansXero]

Any more suggestions? ;D

[slaydemons]

A very simple one, mirror of opposition its not that their fighting another party that went down the same traps but their fighting themselves. Except having it trigger when they get into the room.

[Runestar]

The easiest way to screw over melee characters is to hit them all with debuffs like slow or sculpted glitterdust, seeing how your party suffers from a dearth of spellcaster support, but I don't think you want to go there. :smallamused:

Let's see...

I like the idea of a half-giant psy warrior. Could you make him a warrior7 so expansion can be used to make him huge? Would be funny when your goliath warhulk rages to large, only to see his opponent one-up him.

For fighting style, perhaps claws of the beast? A bit heavy on the PP-side, but shouldn't matter from a 5-round encounter perspective. Alternatively, a spiked chain for that 30-ft reach. Unfortunately, the -4dex likely means no combat reflexes. :smalltongue:

Regarding the mindflayer, I was thinking maybe a githzerai or githyanki character (can be any class), the idea is to play up their racial enmity for each other.

I have no idea what a hadozee is supposed to be.

[olejars]

I have no idea what a hadozee is supposed to be.

It's a flying monkey out of Stormwrack (sp?).

EDIT: Spelling error

[begooler]

I like the githerzai or githiyanki idea for the Mindflayer. It could also be interesting to go with a LG character with focus on slaying mindflayers, who doesn't realize or care that your mindflayer is good.

For the Hadozee, what about a Bar-Lgura? (FC 1, and also some other books that I can't remember) Make use of its abduction ability. It's already CR5, so I woudn't give it class levels.

[LansXero]

I like the githerzai or githiyanki idea for the Mindflayer. It could also be interesting to go with a LG character with focus on slaying mindflayers, who doesn't realize or care that your mindflayer is good.

Githzerai / Githyanki are Illithid ex-slaves, right? Could work, but arent they like way too high for a lvl 6 party? (The mindflayer is using an adjusted monster class from this site's homebrew forum: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724).

Aditionally, what would be a good base for an Slayer? Ranger 2 (the mindflayer's player used to play an archery drow ranger who is now working with the evil guys) with TWF style/ Ardent? Psion? PsyWar? More ranger? / Slayer 1? 2?



For the Hadozee, what about a Bar-Lgura? (FC 1, and also some other books that I can't remember) Make use of its abduction ability. It's already CR5, so I woudn't give it class levels.

Interesting, kind of like a demon-hadozee!. Although, if it were to have Greater Teleport as an spell-like, it begs the question of why is it even still there in those caves. Intriguing, very good suggestion, thank you!


I like the idea of a half-giant psy warrior. Could you make him a warrior7 so expansion can be used to make him huge? Would be funny when your goliath warhulk rages to large, only to see his opponent one-up him.

Well, the Goliath is permanently large due to a belt with enlarge person 1/day with unlimited duration, and still ECL 6, so a PsyWar 7 is just slightly above the intended, but if these guys dont end up dead they may show up as a recurring foe and then that will be neat.

Also, would you say PsyWar 6 or PsyWar5/Warmind 1 would be better? I kinda wanted to let the melee have some leeway (both rogue and barbarian) because the last encounters have been against undeads or in difficult terrain or against things with DR, so they've been feeling kinda useless.

[Haarkla]

So, I would like it if you guys could help me out coming up with a proper mirror party. Build specifics and equipment suggestions. would be great, but even a single sentence for a concept helps. Currently, the party is:

* Goliath Barbarian 5/Warhulk 1 (houserule ignores up to 1 LA)
* Raptoran Druid 5 / Stormcaster-ish PRC 1 with the UA variant that trades wildshape for monk and ranger bonuses.
* Human Cleric1/Paladin4/Div.Crusader 1
* Hadozee Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3
* Mindflayer 6 (from this site's homebrew class by Olescamo)

The ideas I had so far:

* For the Goliath, a Half-Giant psychic warrior. big vs big, and brute vs mind-powered. Also, large sized melee focused loot as a reward.
Good choice. But, I would go with another Goliath as I dislike the half-giant race on grounds of decency.

* For the Raptoran, Earth Genasi Druid with a focus on earth spells? Not sure how to counter or mirror a druid, and I thought burrow speed was a good oposition to fly speed, and earth theme to lightning theme.
I would go with Earth domain cleric, instead of Druid, for more earth spells.

* For the Human, who is very LG and preachy, perhaps a Blackguard? or an Evil Cleric, but since he is a more martial type I think Blackguard would be a better fit.
A level 6ish I would go for cleric. You could have a martial cleric.

* For the Hadozee Im at a loss. What would be a good counter/mirror to someone who keeps climbing walls and jumping around, and fights based on agility? a more thug-like rogue? Some kind of musclebound brute?
I would go for a were-ape (afflicted) barbarian 2. A very different simian archetype.

* The mindflayer is another hard one. The player made a LG Mindflayer and came up with a half-plausible explanation, so I let it fly. Any typically-LG aberrations that could be used?
A normal mindflayer seems the obvious choice to me.
You could use a CE Flumph in a more humourous game.