What Buff spells can be Chained?

[Firechanter]

Using the Chain Spell metamagic on buffs is particularly effective, since you don't have to worry about saving throws and get a pile of buffs for the price of one, especially if you weasel your way around spell slot increase.

The one problem I'm having with it is that I don't see such a lot of buff spells that _can_ be chained, because they must have individual targets and a range greater than Touch.

Of course, the prime candidate is Greater Magic Weapon. This one very clearly works.

How about Phantom Steed -- it has a range of "0 feet", which is rather weird considering you can summon it for someone else. Chained Phantom Steeds for the entire party would be very welcome.

What other spells come to mind?
Or in other words: how do you get the most out of Chain Spell?

[The Glyphstone]

Reach Spell is an excellent tool for that, or Archmage's Arcane Reach.

[Runestar]

One spell which comes to mind is nerveskitter.

Dispel magic as well, though you will eventually get chain dispel at a lv lower. Though if you can lower the slot adjustment to just +1...

[tyckspoon]

Reach Spell is an excellent tool for that, or Archmage's Arcane Reach.

Doesn't work; when you Reach a Touch spell it still doesn't "specify one target" as required for Chain Spell. It's the same reason you can't Chain a Ray either- the spell doesn't have a target, you just launch it at somebody and try to hit them with it (if this is confusing to anybody.. I promise it makes more sense in D&D rules than it does in language.)

[The Glyphstone]

Doesn't work; when you Reach a Touch spell it still doesn't "specify one target" as required for Chain Spell. It's the same reason you can't Chain a Ray either- the spell doesn't have a target, you just launch it at somebody and try to hit them with it (if this is confusing to anybody.. I promise it makes more sense in D&D rules than it does in language.)

Hm. I guess you need War Weaver 5 then.

[Telonius]

Some Cleric spells would still qualify. Cure X Wounds, if you use it with Divine Reach (from Hierophant - yeah, it loses you a caster level), does specify a target. Looking through the spell filter on d20srd, there are a whole bunch that qualify. Bull's Strength & co., Death Ward, Heal... as long as you can work in some metamagic reducers, it's a nice, nice trick.

[gbprime]

Hm. I guess you need War Weaver 5 then.

Nuts, I was half swordsaged. :smallwink:

War Weaver (Heroes of Battle) is the answer. The point of the 5 level PrC is to give multiple characters multiple buffs all at once. It's chaining and reach all in one, and is THE way to play a buffer. Plus it doesn't eat up so much of your resouces that you can't do other spellcasting as well.

[Douglas]

Doesn't work; when you Reach a Touch spell it still doesn't "specify one target" as required for Chain Spell. It's the same reason you can't Chain a Ray either- the spell doesn't have a target, you just launch it at somebody and try to hit them with it (if this is confusing to anybody.. I promise it makes more sense in D&D rules than it does in language.)
"Still"? The vast majority of touch spells specify a single target already by default, and Reach Spell does not change that. You're right about rays, but not Reach Spell.

[Runestar]

Looking through the spell filter on d20srd, there are a whole bunch that qualify. Bull's Strength & co., Death Ward, Heal... as long as you can work in some metamagic reducers, it's a nice, nice trick.

These spells have a range of touch, so I doubt they can be chained. Besides, SPC already has mass death ward (albeit at a lv higher). You need spells with a range greater than touch, IIRC.

So yes to greater magic weapon, no to magic vestments. :smallfrown:

[Telonius]

These spells have a range of touch, so I doubt they can be chained. Besides, SPC already has mass death ward (albeit at a lv higher). You need spells with a range greater than touch, IIRC.

Hierophant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/hierophant.htm)(and the War Weaver alternative) provide a range greater than touch.


Divine Reach (Su)

A hierophant with this ability can use touch spells on targets up to 30 feet away. If the spell requires a melee touch attack, the hierophant must make a ranged touch attack instead. Divine reach can be selected a second time as a special ability, in which case the range increases to 60 feet.

[Shade Kerrin]

I'm a bit partial to using it on G-Magic Weapon, pretty much because the reason it qualifies is also why I couldn't pull off a similar trick with a Duskblade

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestments are great. Save your party*millions* of GP that way.

Mind Blank. Immunity to the Enchantment AND Divination schools all in one spell.

If you have access to Persist shenanigans, the following also become viable:

Shield of Faith: Deflection bonus to AC. Never need a Ring of Protection again

Barkskin: Amulet of Natural Armor? Nah, we don't need any of those

Freedom of Movement: Save a ring slot

Death Ward: Just Say No to Save or Die

Okay, now that everyone is pretty much immune to Save or Loose, and has phenomenal bonuses to everything for free, we'll get down to the nitty and the gritty.

Greater Invisibility. You can't hit what you can't see. Rogues will love you even more.

[KillianHawkeye]

Greater Invisibility. You can't hit what you can't see.

Sure you can. It's just more difficult. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Sure you can. It's just more difficult. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Perhaps I should rephrase then:

He who hits first, hits last. If you cannot detect me, I get the first hit. Ergo, you cannot hit what you cannot see, because you will be dead before you have an opportunity to realize that there is a threat.

[Firechanter]

Only that almost all of those spells are still Touch spells. Might combine that with Reach Spell, but that stacks up the slot grade by another two (iirc), and some common metamagic reducers can't be used on double-metamagic spells. By default, your spell grade goes up by five.

Mind Blank would work if you can knock down the slot increase from +3 to +1 or less.

An Ultimate Magus for instance can sort of emulate DMM, but only up to base spell level 5 at max level, and you can't use this ability on spells you want to augment by more than one MM feat.

Chain Spell would be _extremely_ powerful for buffing if it worked for Touch spells. Alas, it doesn't, at least not without special shenanigans.

[Chen]

Was there ever an errata on Chain spell? It seems like it should be usable on rays (at least thematically) but by its wording it can't be used with rays. In fact the number of spells it actually works with I seem to recall being quite small.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Only that almost all of those spells are still Touch spells. Might combine that with Reach Spell, but that stacks up the slot grade by another two (iirc), and some common metamagic reducers can't be used on double-metamagic spells. By default, your spell grade goes up by five. Actually, common metamagic reduces CAN be used on double-metamagic spells. In fact, I don't know of any that *can't*.


Mind Blank would work if you can knock down the slot increase from +3 to +1 or less.

An Ultimate Magus for instance can sort of emulate DMM, but only up to base spell level 5 at max level, and you can't use this ability on spells you want to augment by more than one MM feat. You need to do some reading on breaking metamagic. Sanctum Spell, Earth Spell, Easy Metamagic, School Specialization...


Chain Spell would be _extremely_ powerful for buffing if it worked for Touch spells. Alas, it doesn't, at least not without special shenanigans.

Not too many shenanigans. Also, if you go divine instead of arcane, DMM Chain Spell is your best friend.

[tyckspoon]

Was there ever an errata on Chain spell? It seems like it should be usable on rays (at least thematically) but by its wording it can't be used with rays. In fact the number of spells it actually works with I seem to recall being quite small.

It works with a number of offensive spells out of the box; most single-target save/lose or debuffs can be Chained. The problem is finding ones that are still useful after you apply the half damage/+4 save DC for the secondary targets.. ideally, of course, you find spells where that modifier doesn't matter, which is why so much work goes into finding compatible buff spells or ways to alter existing buffs to make them work.