Can someone check my math for this custom item? 3.5

[gallagher]

i am planning on making an item of greater mighty wallop, caster level 16, and have it single use per day... by having it caster level 16, the weapon will have 4 size categories higher damage, and will be 16 hours a day, which works well with the 8 hours of sleep casters need (as i am a cleric)

so the price of that would be (spell level*caster level*1800)/(5/use per day)

or (3*16*1800)/5

which equals 17280 gp

is this correct?

[Lord.Sorasen]

Sorry for asking, but where did you find this equation?

[vikingofdoom]

The math is correct, assuming command-word activation and customary magic item slot (I'm guessing bracers as the likely slot, but others could work).

@Lord: The formula is found on page 285 of the DMG, with the slot descriptors on page 288.

[Deathslayer7]

on the SRD too under creating magic items, but yes. That does look right to me.

Didnt check the math but the formula seems right.

[Jack Zander]

That sounds pretty cheap for what the item does. Then again, if you're 16th level there are many more broken things than increasing damage. If I was a DM I'd probably allow a player to create the item, but I wouldn't allow them to buy it from an NPC until I felt the party needed an all day increase in damage.

But if you want more cheese, restrict the item so that only clerics of your alignment can use it. These limiting factors reduce the cost some.

[senrath]

Also consider that, assuming you're around ECL 16 yourself, the enemy probably won't have a very hard time of dispelling the effect you can only use 1/day. So while it does seem pretty cheap, it has more liabilities than immediately appear.

Now, if you're trying to get this item as soon as you could afford it, which would be around level 9, then it's a bit more broken.

[Bakkan]

Re: brokenness -- A medium Greatclub deals 1d10 damage, increased by 4 size categories is 6d8. This means an average of 5.5 to an average of 27, an increase of 21.5 points per hit, which is multiplied by crits etc. Compare that to a Collision weapon (MiC) which gives an undispellable +5 damage for a minimum cost of 16,000. Based on that, this item is priced equivalently to the most similar MiC item if you consider the dispellable nature of it to be worth a 75% discount.

[Teron]

You don't need to rest to regain cleric spells.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm

[Jack Zander]

You don't need to rest to regain cleric spells.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm

Regardless, the party as a whole still probably has to rest each day, and during this rest there is a good chance that there won't be any combat, so 16 hours a day is a pretty safe bet for an item that you want to last all day. In fact, most adventuring days only last a few hours, so reducing the time a bit still probably won't have much effect of the usefulness of the item. Just use it before you enter the dungeon of doom each day. Although that may reduce the damage as well, I'm not familiar with that spell.


Based on that, this item is priced equivalently to the most similar MiC item if you consider the dispellable nature of it to be worth a 75% discount.

I don't think I'd consider it at 75%. Assuming you are fighting mostly monsters, many of them do not have dispel effects below CR 16. The DM can start placing dispelling traps and creatures everywhere, but then he's going out of his way to curb the power on a specific item. I would expect this item to naturally be of use in 75% of the encounters the party faces, thus pricing the undispellable effect at 25% cost.

[herrhauptmann]

Also consider that, assuming you're around ECL 16 yourself, the enemy probably won't have a very hard time of dispelling the effect you can only use 1/day. So while it does seem pretty cheap, it has more liabilities than immediately appear.

Now, if you're trying to get this item as soon as you could afford it, which would be around level 9, then it's a bit more broken.
Why are you shooting down a good, non-broken, custom item idea? Getting dispelled is something you have to deal with when you use magic items. And this would be a little harder to dispel than the standard Periapt of Wisdom +6 (CL 8). Which oddly, has a lower CL than the belt of giant strength+6 (CL 10)

At a CL 16, when used around ECL 16, it'd be no more or less dispellable than his normal buffs from a 3rd level slot. It'd be less likely to be dispelled if purchased at lower levels, and more likely to be dispelled when used at higher levels. At least compared to something he cast straight from his own slots.

However, it might be cheaper to just buy a pearl of power (3rd level spell is 9k). And after you exceed cleric 16, the pearl of power would actually be more effective. Because now it's giving you 17+ hours a day, and is done at a caster level of 17+ (great for midnight attacks), and would be harder to dispel.

[Teron]

Regardless, the party as a whole still probably has to rest each day, and during this rest there is a good chance that there won't be any combat, so 16 hours a day is a pretty safe bet for an item that you want to last all day.
I wasn't disputing that, but gallagher's post implies that he needs rest as a cleric. It's a common error, for some reason; even the Giant has made it in an early comic.

[senrath]

Why are you shooting down a good, non-broken, custom item idea? Getting dispelled is something you have to deal with when you use magic items. And this would be a little harder to dispel than the standard Periapt of Wisdom +6 (CL 8). Which oddly, has a lower CL than the belt of giant strength+6 (CL 10)

At a CL 16, when used around ECL 16, it'd be no more or less dispellable than his normal buffs from a 3rd level slot. It'd be less likely to be dispelled if purchased at lower levels, and more likely to be dispelled when used at higher levels. At least compared to something he cast straight from his own slots.

However, it might be cheaper to just buy a pearl of power (3rd level spell is 9k). And after you exceed cleric 16, the pearl of power would actually be more effective. Because now it's giving you 17+ hours a day, and is done at a caster level of 17+ (great for midnight attacks), and would be harder to dispel.
I'm confused as to how you got me "shooting down a good, non-broken, custom item idea" out of my post. I was simply pointing out that while it appears cheap, it's not as powerful as it seems. I'm not saying "this is brokenz!" or "don't buy this, it's stupid".

[Jack Zander]

I'm confused as to how you got me "shooting down a good, non-broken, custom item idea" out of my post. I was simply pointing out that while it appears cheap, it's not as powerful as it seems. I'm not saying "this is brokenz!" or "don't buy this, it's stupid".

I, on the other hand, think that this item is a little broken when purchased far below the caster level that the item is intended for. The cost is fine, it's emulating a 3rd level spell though it costs more than a pearl of power (3rd level). But in the hands of a level 9-14 character, this item/spell is unlikely to be dispelled and the damage of the spell used isn't scaling properly.

So basically, if purchased before level 16, its pretty broken, but if purchased after level 16, worthless compared to a pearl of power.

[gallagher]

I, on the other hand, think that this item is a little broken when purchased far below the caster level that the item is intended for. The cost is fine, it's emulating a 3rd level spell though it costs more than a pearl of power (3rd level). But in the hands of a level 9-14 character, this item/spell is unlikely to be dispelled and the damage of the spell used isn't scaling properly.

So basically, if purchased before level 16, its pretty broken, but if purchased after level 16, worthless compared to a pearl of power.

well i cant be using the pearl of power, our party arcanist is a spontaneous caster, and greater mighty wallop doesnt appear on my spell list.

are there any rules for clerics to research new spells? i am a cleric of Pelor, and i use bludgeoning weapons, so i could totally swing that one (pun intended)

[Jack Zander]

are there any rules for clerics to research new spells? i am a cleric of Pelor, and i use bludgeoning weapons, so i could totally swing that one (pun intended)

You'd have to work with your DM on that one. Sounds like what you really want is a custom staff. It should be priced more appropriately, and it would scale with your party arcanist.

[Dusk Eclipse]

well i cant be using the pearl of power, our party arcanist is a spontaneous caster, and greater mighty wallop doesnt appear on my spell list.

are there any rules for clerics to research new spells? i am a cleric of Pelor, and i use bludgeoning weapons, so i could totally swing that one (pun intended)

You could get your arcanist a memento magica (Races of the Dragon or Dragon Magic but definitely on MiC) which is a pearl of power but for spontaneous casters, they are more expensive though.

[gallagher]

You could get your arcanist a memento magica (Races of the Dragon or Dragon Magic but definitely on MiC) which is a pearl of power but for spontaneous casters, they are more expensive though.

but he would have to learn the spell, then. i will have to try and convince him to learn a spell that isnt an evocation (yeah, i know, right? he loves the direct damage).

for the staff, that is 325*3*12 (minimum caster level to make a staff)= 13500 for 50 charges. no bad.

but if i make it a 2/d item, i can knock that down to 5400... he is at caster level 10 so that would put me up 2 levels of damage for 10 hours each?

[Jack Zander]

but if i make it a 2/d item, i can knock that down to 5400... he is at caster level 10 so that would put me up 2 levels of damage for 10 hours each?

How are you making it a 2/d item? Is that like an eternal wand but in staff form?

I would say that the item would be a little better balanced either way, simply because things that are around your level will be able to dispel the effect. At 16th caster level for the wondrous item, they would first have to dispel all other lower level effects first, and then still beat the +16 caster level check.

[gallagher]

How are you making it a 2/d item? Is that like an eternal wand but in staff form?

I would say that the item would be a little better balanced either way, simply because things that are around your level will be able to dispel the effect. At 16th caster level for the wondrous item, they would first have to dispel all other lower level effects first, and then still beat the +16 caster level check.
for the 2/d, i was making it like the wondrous item, where i would divide the overall cost by (5/2). it is like having a backup if i get dispelled, or if the time runs out and i need one more encounter out of it.

so i guess yes, kinda like an eternal staff.

[Jack Zander]

for the 2/d, i was making it like the wondrous item, where i would divide the overall cost by (5/2). it is like having a backup if i get dispelled, or if the time runs out and i need one more encounter out of it.

so i guess yes, kinda like an eternal staff.

Ah, well now you are combining two different item creation costs. I don't believe you are allowed to do this. Staffs already have a reduced cost factor becuase they are consumable items. Making it eternal would undo that factor. I'm fairly certain that in the case of eternal wands, they are priced just the same or possibly more than their charged counterparts, and I'm not sure eternal staffs are even a thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Minor schemas (Magic of Eberron) are to scrolls what Eternal wands are to wands (though they only go up to 6th level IRCC) maybe you should check them.

[herrhauptmann]

well i cant be using the pearl of power, our party arcanist is a spontaneous caster, and greater mighty wallop doesnt appear on my spell list.

are there any rules for clerics to research new spells? i am a cleric of Pelor, and i use bludgeoning weapons, so i could totally swing that one (pun intended)

Whoops, forgot that greater mighty wallop is wiz/sorc only. Dang.

The spell research rules apply to clerics as well. Just that you spend your time in prayer and burning expensive incenses, and when it's all done, you make your skill check. I think spellcraft.

Independent Research (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/divineSpells.htm)

A divine spellcaster also can research a spell independently, much as an arcane spellcaster can.