Iron kingdoms?

[BIGMamaSloth]

I was reading a little bit about Iron kingdoms ( and I very much enjoy what Ive read so far) but I have some questions. Most of them don't belong on these forums, as there more where to buy the books and the like. What I'm wondering is if it is based around the d20 system or is it it's whole own RPG?

[TheFallenOne]

it's based on D&D(3.0 only unfortunately) with some class changes, new classes and, most importantly, changes to the quantity and utility of magic with magitek elements as replacements(don't recall the actual name). It has a nice steampunk feel. That kind of setting was quite new to me, but I enjoyed it greatly

[BIGMamaSloth]

How much magic is there? because I prefer very little to no magic at all, IN most of my games.

[The Glyphstone]

Actual magic spells are lower than a typical D&D game. Magical elements, though, are all over the place - arcane gunmages who channel spells through their runic pistols, magitek/steam-powered mecha, steam-cyber-zombies...

[dsmiles]

Magic is a different beast in IK.

For instance, necromancy spells cause you damage to cast.

Making magic items has a chance of permanently draining 1 HP/200 XP in its cost.

Magical healing is rare, and pretty limited. Raise Dead is a 9th level spell, and most clerics can only fully heal people who follow the same deity as them.

Wizards and clerics are pretty standard. Sorcerers are looked on as "cursed" by many people and "gifted" by a few. Gun Mages and Arcane Mechanicks cast at the same progression as Bards.

You can get by without a magic-user in the party, if need be, but it's still better to have one.

[Caliphbubba]

played in and co-ran an Iron Kingdoms game for a couple of years. it's a neat setting for sure. Regarding Magic: one of the central themes of the game is that magic is more like technology, but it's very draining to make permanent items. To get around this they make a lot of little Wonderous Items and fit them together into a larger whole. "magical" items are plug and play as a result. Don't want a flaming sword anymore? have an arcane mechanic remove the plate and replace it with one that generates acid.

All in all the fluff of that Privateer Press puts out for IK is great, but the actual game balance is pretty terrible. I ran it with heavy house rules.

[BIGMamaSloth]

All sounds very cool. Although gun mage sounds like kind of a silly name for an all to bad-*** sounding class.

[I, Dashing Cube]

Magic has a different twist to it in Ik

A lot of conjuration spells don't exist or come at higher levels or with some risks, as do most spells related to the planes, including planar travel, due to IK's cosmology. This essentially limits some of the most abusive tricks and spells casters get.

The magic item crafting system is different. It is called Mechanika (or somesuch) and is based on making a magic items more like real mechanical objects. You have to make a power source, some wires and than you can have a magical effect. Standard magic item crafting costs are increased by 50%, and all magical crafting also cost hp, but only if the item's creation costs more than 200 xp. This means that you have less risks of losing hp if you craft items in multiple parts, thus Mechanika.

As for game balance, well YMMV but I find to be Warmages are overpowered (every caster who even thinks of fighting would benefit from being one).

[dsmiles]

All sounds very cool. Although gun mage sounds like kind of a silly name for an all to bad-*** sounding class.

The Gun Mage is indeed a bad-*** class. It's my favorite IK class, followed a close second by the Bodger.

As a matter of fact, my avatar is of Kaelyssa, an Iosan (elven) Gun Mage/Mage Hunter (or is it Witch Hunter? I always get the name of that PrC mixed up. :smallconfused:) Also a warcaster for my Retribution of Scyrah army. A lot of the IK fluff is tied up in the books for the Warmachine game. But...It. Is. AWESOME!

[BIGMamaSloth]

Do you guys think the Witchfire trilogy adventures are worth the money? There on amazon for around $45 for the collected edition. That would be "fool's errand", "The longest night", "shadow of exile" And "The Umbral spire". I like premade adventures sometimes, especially if its my first time using a campaign setting. Does anyone have any experience with them? Are they fun, Interesting or balanced?

[herrhauptmann]

Do you guys think the Witchfire trilogy adventures are worth the money? There on amazon for around $45 for the collected edition. That would be "fool's errand", "The longest night", "shadow of exile" And "The Umbral spire". I like premade adventures sometimes, especially if its my first time using a campaign setting. Does anyone have any experience with them? Are they fun, Interesting or balanced?

Definitely worth playing, though I'm not sure I'd pay 45$ for any game. Even if it is 3 books bound together in a sweet looking hardcover. As a bonus, it was updated to 3.5. Still, that is only 10$ higher than original cover price. Since last I looked, 3.5 books were going for double or more their original price for a used book, 45$ is a steal.

Not sure about those titles though. The contents of the witchfire trilogy were Longest night, Shadow of the exile, and legion of lost souls. Make sure of what you're buying please. I'd hate for you to get tricked into buying crap.

[BIGMamaSloth]

Well the fool's errand is available free as a pdf anyway, but this is just bound into the hard cover, It's supposed to be a prelude to the Witchfire trilogy. The umbral spire is a bonus adventure you can only get in the collection (I think it's supposed to be played after the original three). The hardcover also comes with a couple short quests for in between the larger adventures.

I think I'm going to get it, it looks nice.

(Edit: Oh and I forgot to put it in the original but it includes the legion of lost souls.)

[herrhauptmann]

Derr, I'm an idiot. Looked in the table of contents, yeah both Fools Errand and Umbral are side quests in the middle of the 3 main stories.

Like I said, I wouldn't pay 45 for a game, even though it is really cheap compared to current 3.5 rulebook prices.

[Leon]

it's based on D&D(3.0 only unfortunately)

It started on 3.0 and then received a upgrade to 3.5 - It is currently some what in stasis but there has been mention of PP working on a system of their own for it as d20 doesn't quite fit it.
Although that new system maybe a while off as the Warmachine and Hordes lines take precedence.

Even without constant new stuff there is a massive wealth of game to be played with - the setting is so big once you think out side of the of the confines of Western Immoren.

The Books as physical books are now fairly rare but are available in PDF form.

[herrhauptmann]

The Books as physical books are now fairly rare but are available in PDF form.

Really now??
Umm, free AND legal PDFs? Do you have a link (my google fu fails me tonight)

[BIGMamaSloth]

Really now??
Umm, free AND legal PDFs? Do you have a link (my google fu fails me tonight)

No, I think he means PDFs for purchase. You know, like digital download.

[Leon]

Really now??
Umm, free AND legal PDFs? Do you have a link (my google fu fails me tonight)

Legal certainly - Not free.
DriveThruRPG and Pazio have them

[sonofzeal]

The fluff is absolutely incredible, excellent setting in every way.

The crunch is.... eh, you're better off making up your own, honestly. It's either stupidly bad, stupidly good, or stupidly incomprehensible.

[Leon]

The crunch is.... eh, you're better off making up your own, honestly. It's either stupidly bad, stupidly good, or stupidly incomprehensible.

That is pretty much the ground state for anything that's in d20

[Codenpeg]

I am still traumatized from my last Iron Kingdoms game. Healing definitely is a problem if you're playing the rules straight. If you're looking for low magic might I suggest Dark Sun for a different yet interesting flavor?

[caden_varn]

Re. Witchfire trilogy - they are decent enough adventures, but I found they needed a bit more adaptation than I'd expected. I think they were written before the main game rulebook, so it was not that consistent. For example the adventures have a load of magical weapons which are supposed to be really rare, and no mechanikal ones which are supposed to be the default for the system.
I also found at least one rather critical bit where the route the party was supposed to take did not make a lot of sense to me (or to my players).
Where the party is supposed to agree to use the evil necromantic artifact weapon (so evil that it is disturbing to even be in the vague vicinity of the blade) to raise the bodies of the lost legion. Said legion having been placed there at the command of the main good god of the setting so they could rise up and defend the country in future. The group had an issue with the good god using a weapon so evil as his tool in this, which I thought was a fair objection.
It's got a good storyline and seems generally quite fun, but at times it feels a bit railroady to me. That said, my players seemed happy enough, so I must have concealed the rails reasonably well...:smallsmile:

[sonofzeal]

That is pretty much the ground state for anything that's in d20
Granted, but the rules for magitek crafting are quite easily the most ungodly complicated things I've read in all d20. Three people with degrees in math and logic couldn't price out even a fairly simple gadget. We eventually got something, but it was more guesswork and supposition and houserule.

When even the rules need to be held together with spit and chewing gum, I think there's a problem.

Beautiful fluff though, truly top notch.

[Cieyrin]

Granted, but the rules for magitek crafting are quite easily the most ungodly complicated things I've read in all d20. Three people with degrees in math and logic couldn't price out even a fairly simple gadget. We eventually got something, but it was more guesswork and supposition and houserule.

When even the rulesneed to be held together with spit and chewing gum, I think there's a problem.

Beautiful fluff though, truly top notch.

Don't know what you're talking about, I put together mechanika with little issue. It's expanded upon and clarified in Liber Mechanika as well, so I would definitely have a look in that if you want to seriously put some mechanika together.

As for the healing limitations, that's there to make things more gritty. Plus, they seriously expanded alchemy so that you can heal up when your clerics tap out for the day. It's a tougher setting, it makes you think before you tangle with anything and everything that looks your way lie some adventuring parties seem to do.

Finally, I do love gunmages as well, though I tend to play them more out of setting than in, if my avvie is any indication, given there are no gnomes in IK. :smallwink:

[sonofzeal]

Don't know what you're talking about, I put together mechanika with little issue. It's expanded upon and clarified in Liber Mechanika as well, so I would definitely have a look in that if you want to seriously put some mechanika together.
I can't even remember what the issue was anymore, or what we were building. I do remember than the relevant information was scattered all over the book, buried in the middle of paragraphs, and some elements never seemed to be fully defined anywhere. We didn't have Liber Mechanika though, so maybe that was part of the problem.

[Cieyrin]

I can't even remember what the issue was anymore, or what we were building. I do remember than the relevant information was scattered all over the book, buried in the middle of paragraphs, and some elements never seemed to be fully defined anywhere. We didn't have Liber Mechanika though, so maybe that was part of the problem.

I do admit IK does have some organization issues. It still annoys me that I had to get one of Privateer Presses' mags to finally figure out what the going price of magelocks are...

[Another_Poet]

I was reading a little bit about Iron kingdoms ( and I very much enjoy what Ive read so far) but I have some questions. Most of them don't belong on these forums, as there more where to buy the books and the like. What I'm wondering is if it is based around the d20 system or is it it's whole own RPG?

1. The books are hard to find but Privateer Press has finally released some as pdfs, so check out their website

2. It's a setting, which uses a mix of 3.0 and 3.5 D&D rules (most of it was put out for 3.5 but the monster book I believe still has 3.0 stuff in it). However it uses a lot of custom rules for equipment and magic to make it fit the world better, so it takes a little reading up to run it.

3. It can be adjusted for Pathfinder easily and there has been a lot of fan-generated PF conversions; check out the Privateer Press forums for details.

4. It is a hella awesome world to run, my favourite setting ever.

5. It can be a pain to run as a DM, because of the custom rules and needing to houserule some things to smooth it out. It doesn't run well out of the box and takes a fair amount of prep.

Even with the caveat of (5) I still think (4) makes it worth playing. There is a lot of community support on the PP forums so stop in there and say hi. Hope you enjoy!

[Cieyrin]

Even with the caveat of (5) I still think (4) makes it worth playing. There is a lot of community support on the PP forums so stop in there and say hi. Hope you enjoy!

That reminds me, check out the Unofficial IK RPG FAQ (http://old.privateerpressforums.com/index.php?showtopic=79042&hl=iron+kingdoms+FAQ) while you're at it, though it's probably been mirrored somewhere more recent on the forums than my saved link goes to. Still, worth a look through for any questions you may have.

[subject42]

My old DM loved to import Iron Kingdoms monsters into his games. There was one that was some sort of acid-vomiting troll. One of it's abilities was "if you get hit, all of your items are gone, no save, no hit points, just gone".

That part was a little absurd.

[McQ]

Does anyone have any suggestions for removing the Magical aspect of the Mechanika Craft skill? And somehow replace the Magical Engines and Rune plates to also be magic free?
I'd like to have a Rogue be able to craft mechanical items and this seems to be a problem.

[Kanas]

Being a Warmachine/Hordes player and having played through the Witchfire Trilogy, I love the setting. I may be biased however.

A lot of the earlier No Quarter Magazines put out by Privateer had quite a bit of of RPG content. Including, fluff, equipment, feats, PrC's and a couple new classes.

I'm really looking forward to the new ruleset they are working on for the RPG. Sadly summer is the earliest we may hear of it since they are working harder on the Wargame.

[ShadowFighter15]

Does anyone have any suggestions for removing the Magical aspect of the Mechanika Craft skill? And somehow replace the Magical Engines and Rune plates to also be magic free?
I'd like to have a Rogue be able to craft mechanical items and this seems to be a problem.

It might be possible, but I really doubt it. The whole thing with Mechanika isn't that it's using purely mechanical means to replicate magic, but using technology to make magical devices with less risk to the person making it. Remember, in the IK setting, spending XP to make a magic item carries a risk of permanent HP loss and the more XP you spend, the more likely that loss is to occur and the greater it's going to be.

Mechanika is still magical - you look at a warjack with Detect Magic and it'll light up like a Christmas Tree (especially if it's something with mechanikal weapons like a Stormclad or Centurion) because it's cortex, arcane turbine, accumulators and any rune plates on its weapons or armour are all powered by magic. A 'jack's boiler is just to drive the arcane turbine and give the pistons something to work with, everything else is powered by the turbine and the magical energy it generates.

My understanding of mechanika is that it's impossible to make non-magical mechanika. Mechanika was made to make magic items easier and safer to create, not replace them.