Building an Insane Character

[Jewel Thief]

I'm a DM by trade, but my friend wants a shot at the big money. So I have to build a character - meh! And halp!

I want to build a crazy character, a sado-masochist who likes pain. What are some good classes for crazy people? I'm thinking she'll be more of a rogue or sorcerer.

JT

[Sacrieur]

Warlock? Warlocks can be pretty crazy.

[Kuma Kode]

Any class can be crazy, but I do second warlock. They have a special kind of crazy.

[gbprime]

I'm playing an insane cleric at the moment. Dream domain spells are a great fit, and the immunity to Fear domain ability allows him to act absolutely un-right in the head at times.

[Nachtritter]

Seconding the crazy cleric idea. You hurt yourself to bring glory and praise to your DARK ELDRITCH GOD.

[kestrel404]

You've got lots and lots of options. While any base class can do well for 'insane', there are several that can pull it off really spectacularly.

Rogue is a poor choice, because 'crazy rogue' generally equates to 'caught, imprisoned and dead rogue' fairly quickly. Even if they're just a masochist, Rogues in D&D don't generally survive long if they stick around to gloat.

Sorceror is a much better option, especially with the correct spell selection, but we can do much better.

Cleric, with the correct God backing them, make for truly terrifying crazies. When the voices in your head don't just tell you to kill people but also give you the ability to shoot lasers and summon monsters, it means you're listening to the right voices.

A Paladin of Slaughter (CE paladin) on the other hand is probably a little TOO crazy, unless doing wicked deeds is going to be the focus of the game.

Warlock, as has been stated, makes for a really nice 'evil villain' kind of crazy, but really requires quite a bit of optimization to do properly.

A better plan is Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic), which acts a lot like the warlock except that they devote themselves to being more dragon-like and they've got a breath weapon instead of an eldritch ray-gun. If you take the Entangling Breath feat (Races of the Dragon), this class needs little or no optimization and will do well in just about any situation.

Factotums make for excellent Chessmaster style crazies - it requires an intelligent player as well as an intelligent character, but they can do ANYTHING.

For a bestial kind of crazy, Barbarian/Totemist (with the associated prestige class in Magic of Incarnum) makes for a really nasty wild-man character.

But if you REALLY want to mess with people's heads, and be a truly nasty and vile kind of crazy, nothing beats a Spell-to-power Erudite. They may start out a bit slow, but with the ability to cherry pick off the Psion and Wizard spell lists and a real in-game reason to tie down spellcasters and psions and rifle through their minds for useful stuff, the STP Erudite can be everything that the Batman Wizard wants to be all the time, thanks to the fact that they spontaneously cast off of their known spell list (and the limits placed on variety of powers/day really stop mattering after about 4th level).

[Ajadea]

Cleric with the Dream and Madness domains?

Immunity to fear, spells that manage to be insanely powerful even though he lacks awareness of the way the world works, and you can make other people crazy too!

[Zaydos]

Wild Mage: It's a sorcerer of chaos. Good for crazy but doesn't fit sado-masochism though.

Cancer Mage: Might work for a mad rogue.

[slaydemons]

I don't think the class matters what matters most importantly is that you act it out when you see someone in pain you smile and enjoy their torment, if its more of he/she enjoys pain on themselves I would suggest someone who is always running into battle first so they can get hurt. thats my two cp

[Telonius]

a crazy character, a sado-masochist who likes pain.

I think there's a PrC about this sort of thing in either BoEF or Nymphology, but I'm at work at the moment and can't check.

[Sacrieur]

I think there's a PrC about this sort of thing in either BoEF or Nymphology, but I'm at work at the moment and can't check.

FB from CW is as masochistic as you're going to get. There's also a spell called masochism that allows you to trade hp for damage.

---

If you're interested in a pure masochistic class I'm developing a class solely based on more pain = strength.

[Telonius]

There's a "Maiden of Pain" PrC from Players' Guide to Faerun. It's a specialty priestess of Loviatar, and requires Cleric levels.

[Hyfigh]

Speaking of crazy Warlocks, my friend made one with the concept of him being a master chef. His schtick was that he would Baleful Polymorph things into fuzzy critters and use them as ingredients... It worked out pretty well and he played the character damn well. He's a little bent IRL, though. :smalltongue:

[Tvtyrant]

UR-Priest or Blighter would do well, thought Blighter gives you heaps of dead levels. Both of them are essentially waging war against existence.

[Vangor]

Aside from classes, in roleplaying an insane character: insane is not random. One might consider insane the opposite of random with obsessions, rituals, pervasive rationales, etc.. Those theme of the obsessions, rituals, and so forth may seem random, but consistency is important to playing a convincingly mad character rather than merely a joke.

Plus, I would consider choosing to focus on sadism or masochism rather than trying to combine.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I suggest you devote yourself to an Elder Evil, that way your madness grants you some benefit... for example Willing Deformity (Madness) gives you immunity to mind affecting effects, which is a great boon. There are other Vile feats that are worthwhile.

[Urpriest]

UR-Priest or Blighter would do well, thought Blighter gives you heaps of dead levels. Both of them are essentially waging war against existence.

Hey!

I'm perfectly fine with existence. It's just those pesky gods...and those meddling kids...that dog, too.

[Callista]

Wait a minute now, what kind of "insane" do you want? You can't just say, "oh, they're crazy," because there's lots of kinds of crazy and you have to pick one. (Yeah, yeah, I study psychology...) I guess you could be kind of cliched and just pick "generic crazy" but personally I think that's a little uninteresting. Research the crazy before you try to play it... you'll have much more fun.

[Yukitsu]

Some kind of very high con psionic character, using hostile empathic transfer and share pain. Start every combat by letting them cut you. Then share it.

Advantage of psionics doing this, is they can actually fight in that horrible cliched rope.

[Doc Roc]

Archivists. All about dark knowledge, frail, curious, perhaps... more than they seem. Perhaps less.

[Thurbane]

Sorcerer with the Masochism spell.

Also, the Deformity (madness) feat...

[Sacrieur]

Sorcerer with the Masochism spell.

Also, the Deofmity (madness) feat...

But see that's the thing. A sorcerer has too low hit-points as it is.

---

FB takes nonlethal damage for being in frenzy. Not to mention while they're in frenzy they're blood thirsty insane bastards.

[Thurbane]

But see that's the thing. A sorcerer has too low hit-points as it is.

---

FB takes nonlethal damage for being in frenzy. Not to mention while they're in frenzy they're blood thirsty insane bastards.
Rage Mage? :smalltongue:

[Darth Stabber]

All of the feats that have Willing deformity as a prerequisite are fine choices.

You can subject yourself to stretching on the rack while having limb extentions painfully inserted to increase your reach 5'.

You can file your teeth to points to gain a bite attack

You can scar yourself up and gain natural armor.

These all sound like reasonable methods of signifying your devotions to pain.

I don't however recommend worshiping the Lady of Pain, you will end up in too much pain.

[grimbold]

Warlock? Warlocks can be pretty crazy.

exactly
in all D&D webcomics warlocks are insane, use some as motivation

[Vangor]

exactly
in all D&D webcomics warlocks are insane, use some as motivation

For Pony! (obv)

[Dralnu]

Crazy, you say? Likes pain, you say? How about a character who views the sound of their own blood slushing through their veins as sweet sweet music? Enter the Blood Magus!

As a blood magus, you cut yourself to enhance your spells.You scribe spells into your flesh because, you know, scribing them on paper is so passe. You drink your blood like potions. You make a new companion out of your blood! You point and laugh as you make your opponent's blood all funky and want to escape the confines of their skin! Finally, teleport any distance by messily exploding out of living bodies! HELL YEAH!

Blood Magus. Complete Arcane.

[Escheton]

How about a crusader/incarnate with combat reflexes and karmic strike?
Get yourself a therapeutic mantle and the healing stance and beg them to hit you. It will hurt them more than it will you.

incarnates can get pretty fanatical, allignmentwise. So whether you want to play him as psycho or the joker the classes have you set.

[The Dark Fiddler]

If I remember correctly, Book of Vile Darkness has actual rules for masochism... I'd check, but I don't have my group's physical copy on hand.

[Kobold-Bard]

I recommend Binder.

Besides them being super-awesome, they make their living sharing their soul with things that don't technically exist. While the Epic Binder article specifically called out Epic Vestiges as insanity inducing, I'm sure the lesser ones will do a pretty similar job on your noggin after a while too. Especially after you can bind several and have them all whispering their own particular brand of madness in the back of your mind at once.

[OneCalledBlue]

Book of Erotic Fantasy.

Tantrist - CON based Arcane caster with Domains. Take Pleasure and Perversion as your Domain choices.

Tantrist 5/Blood Magus 4/Cleric 1/Contemplative 2/Mystic Theurge 8

Tantrist Domains - Pleasure, Perversion
Cleric Domains - (Cleric of the Cult of the Dragon Below) Pain, Madness
Contemplative Domain - Corruption

Swear allegiance to an elder evil. Get the bonus vile feats.
Take as many of the willing deformity feats as you can. Deformity Tongue and Abominable form are the most fun. :D

Grab a race with a CON bonus and get Pain Mastery from Savage Species as well for more amusement.

Also Graft Flesh from Lords of Madness can have amusing results with this sort of build.

[FMArthur]

An Ardent with the Pain and Suffering mantle fits the bill exactly.

If you do go Warlock, though, Hellfire Warlock is your go-to for self-inflicted pain bringing power.

There are also the Nipple Clamps of Exquisite Pain from BoVD as an item, but since they literally turn pain into pleasure, with no pain felt, it's probably not what your character would like.

[wumpus]

Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to any other PC?

I mean think of the hit point loss of a typical first level commoner. Then consider what happens to any adventurer day in and day out. Pretty much all PCs fit your description. You are only pushing the degree of insanity.

[Demons_eye]

I recommend Binder.

Besides them being super-awesome, they make their living sharing their soul with things that don't technically exist. While the Epic Binder article specifically called out Epic Vestiges as insanity inducing, I'm sure the lesser ones will do a pretty similar job on your noggin after a while too. Especially after you can bind several and have them all whispering their own particular brand of madness in the back of your mind at once.

This, at higher levels you can do some crazy things. I once rode a flaming pig that acted like a flying mount (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mount.htm). Using the dreaming duke I made an illusion that a man on a bear on a pig was chasing me while the bear acted like a siren. In the middle of the town. Dahlver-Nar can be very creepy if you can stay in the are but not be seen. 'Lord and Ladies! Why am I bleeding like I got stabbed!' Even better with Bur for fast healing.

[Sims]

I'd suggest staying away from most lower tier classes like the Fighter as well as most monster classes. I swear they are traps. >_>

[Callista]

Just out of curiosity, how does this compare to any other PC?

I mean think of the hit point loss of a typical first level commoner. Then consider what happens to any adventurer day in and day out. Pretty much all PCs fit your description. You are only pushing the degree of insanity.Remember what hit points mean, though.

A Commoner has 4 HP. A 10th-level Fighter might have 100 (given a high CON).

Let's get that Commoner a little roughed up--bruises, maybe a sprain somewhere, a headache from getting knocked in the head; maybe he's winded from fighting hard for a while. The commoner has 1 HP; he's lost 3 out of his 4 HP.

The Fighter, in that same state, may have 25 HP left, having lost 75.

Hit points don't directly represent wounds. They represent how long you can fight and how well you can take punishment, how long you can keep dodging, how long you can stay standing and present a danger to your opponent. The only damage represented by lost hit points above zero is damage that, left alone without treatment, will heal on its own--the bruises, scrapes, shallow cuts, and general exhaustion of being in a fight. (In the case of your masochistic character, it can represent superficial self-injury as well.)

Once you get to zero or hit the massive damage threshold, that's real damage; you can describe that as broken bones, deep cuts, arrows piercing flesh instead of just grazing or bruising you under your armor, head injuries or internal bleeding--that stuff needs a cleric and, as you can tell by the -10 everybody gets to death, has to do with physical damage to the body rather than just endurance. Joe Commoner dies at -10; so does the tough level 10 Fighter. (Personally, I use -CON for extra realism, but it's the same principle.)

So, yeah, if you're gonna do a character who has a thing about pain, remember what HP means, in-game.

[Darth Stabber]

Fleshwarper (LoM) enjoys grafting aberation part onto himself without anesthetic (check the class pic), and are suitably crazy. Alienist, and anything else dealing with the farrealm would meet the COMPLETELY NUTS requisite.

[wumpus]

Remember what hit points mean, though.
...
Hit points don't directly represent wounds.
...

That is why held/helpless/unconscious characters (PC or NPC) suddenly are as easy to damage as commoners? That is why falling is nd6*level where n=ft fallen/10 so that the wounds match the hit points?

Face it. Everywhere in the rules, hit points == wounds. We try to fluff it away*, but every time it comes up in the crunch, hit points == wounds.

* this has been true since AD&D 1e. Of course, 1e "rounds" were supposed to be 1 minute long, so each "attack" was assumed to include multiple feints, etc. Any attempt to extend the rules simply ignored the fluff and assumed the die rolls meant what they said.

[Leon]

Something base with the Alienist PrC

[Callista]

That is why held/helpless/unconscious characters (PC or NPC) suddenly are as easy to damage as commoners? That is why falling is nd6*level where n=ft fallen/10 so that the wounds match the hit points?

Face it. Everywhere in the rules, hit points == wounds. We try to fluff it away*, but every time it comes up in the crunch, hit points == wounds.

* this has been true since AD&D 1e. Of course, 1e "rounds" were supposed to be 1 minute long, so each "attack" was assumed to include multiple feints, etc. Any attempt to extend the rules simply ignored the fluff and assumed the die rolls meant what they said.Hit points above zero can equal wounds, but not lethal wounds. If you fall from a two story building and walk away, sore and banged up but otherwise unhurt, you've lost some of your HP, but you haven't been disabled. If the fall took you below zero, you took dangerous injuries and may die without help. If it left you at -10, you died instantly on impact or took injuries that would kill you no matter how much medical help you got.

If you have lost HP but are above zero HP, and you receive absolutely no medical treatment, you are still in no danger of death, you are still not impaired, and you can fight at full capacity. The best fluff to represent that is not deadly wounds, but minor injuries--bruises, scratches, and the exhaustion of being in a fight. As a DM, I would describe a blow of this sort as--
"The arrow smashes into your breastplate, bruising you underneath, but the armor holds." (Ranged attack.)
"The orc swings his axe at your neck, but you dodge it and the edge of the axe cuts across your shoulder instead." (Melee.)
"The dragon's bite has nearly crushed the breath out of you, but you've managed to hold its jaws open... for now." (Grapple.)
"You tried to duck away from the fire bolt, but you weren't quite fast enough. You escaped being incinerated, but you can feel blisters rising on your skin." (Spell.)

If you are held/helpless/whatever, then someone can immediately kill you (coup de grace), though it may take more than one blow in the cases of people who are physically very hardy (high Fort save). I don't see anything wrong with that; it works that way in real life too even if you're the best martial artist in the world.

[Darth Stabber]

Binder while allowing the vestige all the influence it could want! It's like multiple personalities as a class feature.