vageta31
2011-03-17, 06:30 PM
Ok I've searched around the net a bit about creating custom classes and such and the hardest part seems about balancing. Basically I'm trying to find a way to balance some sort of custom class mix of Rogue and Swordsage that gets some of the passive class features, but gives up the majority of the stances and maneuvers. Reason being is my DM, who doesn't really have a problem with the swordsage itself, is not keen on bringing one into the group we have right now. It's a new group with beginner players and basically we don't want to overwhelm the group with the complexity of maneuvers and stances, and probably also to not make the other guys feel like they're missing out on all the fun. Sure they could take ToB classes too, but again the complexity probably makes it too much work in the beginning.
So we're working on a possible way for me to compromise and get some of the swordsage abilities, while not actually taking the class. I'm thinking of a way through RP in game to find someone to possibly train my guy in swordsage talents, but not actually gaining everything. The fluff being a true swordsage would take years to learn, but I would be able to incorporate some of it rather easily and even tailor it to fit more of my own style. The trick is how to balance this by gaining enough positive while missing out on alot of the good stuff. It'd have to have some incentives that even a swordsage wouldn't get, to make up for the loss of the variety of maneuvers I'd normally have access to.
My guy is a Rogue/Monk with some of the monk acf features(sleeping tiger, hidden fist, ect..). He will be taking Aescetic Rogue to keep his unarmed strike progression up. He will use an Elven courtblade as his main weapon and use TWF/Snap kick to increase his damage output. Concept is a more combat Rogue that walks around with a light greatsword as tall as him, and uses his unarmed abilities in conjuction. (Taking a huge swipe with his sword, then following with a roundhouse kick).The goal is to add some swordsage capabilities which adds enough strength to make up for not being able to take the full class. This could be a custom class progression picking things up on the way, or a simple 1 or 2 level bonus that I'd get some things to make up for it then progress normally thereafter.
So to start(no books on me right now), the passive things a 2nd level swordsage would get(when compared to pure Rogue/Monk); At a minimum I'd be wanting a 2 level dip so we'll start there.
D8 HD
+1 initiative
weapon focus on any discipline weapons
Wis AC bonus in armor
+2 wis save
2 stances
7 Maneuvers(4 at a time)
???
So the harder part is figuring out how much to gain in bonuses to make up for the loss of stances and maneuvers. My ideas would be;
*Adding some/all of the passive bonuses
*Allowing 1 stance(that's in effect at all times therefore not really a stance anymore)
*Adding a small number of minor maneuvers that are changed to spell-like abilities and useable once per encounter with no way to refresh(no adaptive style). Things that go along with my classes concept like sudden leap, shadow jaunt, dancing mongoose, shadow something(one that gives you invis for one round), Diamond mind counter(conc. check for 1 wis save).
*Custom rules that combine other abilities into one like;
Changing wis bonuses to Int bonuses as my guy is Int based. Precident is already set via kung fu genius and carmendine monk. Could easily be changed to work for SS as part of the exchange.
Changing weapon focus group to allow less weapons, but ability to add one of my choice to count for shadow blade feat. Ie; keep unarmed strike, remove some of the others and allow me to add one custom weapon(Elven courtblade). This would fulfill the RP of me tailoring the SS talents to my own style.
*Allow a couple bonus feats that I could take (in progression style or a small amount up front). Things I need from book right now are superior unarmed strike, snap kick and evasive reflexes.
So question is how much of those ideas to incorporate in order to make up for the loss of what I *could* have had if I could simply play a SS. The passive stuff is bare minimum and has nothing to do with the makeup for loss of other things. A couple single encounter lower level maneuvers changed to Su or Ex that can only be used once in an encounter with no refresh option seems fair. The constance stance benefit is just like an extra free class ability. Shadow blade could be thrown in as a given with perhaps a couple bonus feats taken later from a list we come up with. The bonus "shadow hand" weapon could be a bit powerful, but in reality it does fit the theme and type of weapons since it's a finessible one.
I just don't want to be too happy with a few scraps from the class without making up for it somehow that we can both agree on. Any comments on my options? Do some things sound like too much, or am I still not making up for the loss of the huge utility and strategy I'd get from all the maneuvers?
So we're working on a possible way for me to compromise and get some of the swordsage abilities, while not actually taking the class. I'm thinking of a way through RP in game to find someone to possibly train my guy in swordsage talents, but not actually gaining everything. The fluff being a true swordsage would take years to learn, but I would be able to incorporate some of it rather easily and even tailor it to fit more of my own style. The trick is how to balance this by gaining enough positive while missing out on alot of the good stuff. It'd have to have some incentives that even a swordsage wouldn't get, to make up for the loss of the variety of maneuvers I'd normally have access to.
My guy is a Rogue/Monk with some of the monk acf features(sleeping tiger, hidden fist, ect..). He will be taking Aescetic Rogue to keep his unarmed strike progression up. He will use an Elven courtblade as his main weapon and use TWF/Snap kick to increase his damage output. Concept is a more combat Rogue that walks around with a light greatsword as tall as him, and uses his unarmed abilities in conjuction. (Taking a huge swipe with his sword, then following with a roundhouse kick).The goal is to add some swordsage capabilities which adds enough strength to make up for not being able to take the full class. This could be a custom class progression picking things up on the way, or a simple 1 or 2 level bonus that I'd get some things to make up for it then progress normally thereafter.
So to start(no books on me right now), the passive things a 2nd level swordsage would get(when compared to pure Rogue/Monk); At a minimum I'd be wanting a 2 level dip so we'll start there.
D8 HD
+1 initiative
weapon focus on any discipline weapons
Wis AC bonus in armor
+2 wis save
2 stances
7 Maneuvers(4 at a time)
???
So the harder part is figuring out how much to gain in bonuses to make up for the loss of stances and maneuvers. My ideas would be;
*Adding some/all of the passive bonuses
*Allowing 1 stance(that's in effect at all times therefore not really a stance anymore)
*Adding a small number of minor maneuvers that are changed to spell-like abilities and useable once per encounter with no way to refresh(no adaptive style). Things that go along with my classes concept like sudden leap, shadow jaunt, dancing mongoose, shadow something(one that gives you invis for one round), Diamond mind counter(conc. check for 1 wis save).
*Custom rules that combine other abilities into one like;
Changing wis bonuses to Int bonuses as my guy is Int based. Precident is already set via kung fu genius and carmendine monk. Could easily be changed to work for SS as part of the exchange.
Changing weapon focus group to allow less weapons, but ability to add one of my choice to count for shadow blade feat. Ie; keep unarmed strike, remove some of the others and allow me to add one custom weapon(Elven courtblade). This would fulfill the RP of me tailoring the SS talents to my own style.
*Allow a couple bonus feats that I could take (in progression style or a small amount up front). Things I need from book right now are superior unarmed strike, snap kick and evasive reflexes.
So question is how much of those ideas to incorporate in order to make up for the loss of what I *could* have had if I could simply play a SS. The passive stuff is bare minimum and has nothing to do with the makeup for loss of other things. A couple single encounter lower level maneuvers changed to Su or Ex that can only be used once in an encounter with no refresh option seems fair. The constance stance benefit is just like an extra free class ability. Shadow blade could be thrown in as a given with perhaps a couple bonus feats taken later from a list we come up with. The bonus "shadow hand" weapon could be a bit powerful, but in reality it does fit the theme and type of weapons since it's a finessible one.
I just don't want to be too happy with a few scraps from the class without making up for it somehow that we can both agree on. Any comments on my options? Do some things sound like too much, or am I still not making up for the loss of the huge utility and strategy I'd get from all the maneuvers?