*Applause*

[Trog]

Just a shout out to the The Giant and the Mod Squad. Just saw the post on the rules changes. Very well done. Awesome to see upgrades happen. :smallsmile:

*Applauds for a bit vigorously and then quickly looks around and becomes self conscious for applauding all on his own. Slowly comes to an awkward stop.*

Now er... about converting over my account to the new rules...

does Trog's weapon shrink at all? :smallconfused:



Cause for like... dating purposes and stuff... Trog'd rather avoid that.

*whips it out!*

...


*holds up a tiny cocktail spear shaped like a little sword*

Besides if this thing gets any smaller Trog won't be able to nab Trog's date's drink garnishes with it.

*spears an olive, pops in mouth*

Plus it cost Trog an exotic weapon proficiency slot. Can't waste them. *Swishes tiny sword around. Munches. Wanders off.*

[Serpentine]

I, also, am very pleased with this change :smallsmile: Looks like there's a bit more wriggle-room for moderator judgement, which is nice.

[Toptomcat]

Very good. A liberalization was well overdue.

[pendell]

I concur. I also want to add to that by giving an additional shout out to the mods.

There is a lot of bullying in the world, both cyber- and real. But I've never had to fear it on this board because the mods deal with it quickly and efficiently. But I've also noticed that when people are really trying to obey the rules but slip up, that the mods have cut them a bit of slack. So I feel like I can have fun here -- I'm neither constantly looking over my shoulder for an infraction, nor afraid of getting into a quarrel with other posters.

In other words, the mod squad is doing its job as it's supposed to be done. Thank you.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Dvandemon]

I'm having one big sigh of relief at the rule changes since, I saw the expiration of my infraction and went :smalleek: w-what? w-w-why?! That's a couple of years ;A;

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Excellent! I picked up some minor infractions over the years, but the one that annoyed me the most was a repeat on an oversized sig. The infractions came 10 1/2 months apart, and I felt like someone getting a speeding ticket for 3mph over the limit.

Yeah, I was in violation, but come on! Glad to see more leeway these days.

[Haruki-kun]

I too, would like to show my thanks and support for this decision.

Thanks! *supports* :smallsmile:

[Moff Chumley]

I'd also like to award hi-fives and fistbumps to the mod team. :smallbiggrin:

[Zain]

I also support the re-organization of the RPG forum. Also, I'd go so far to say this is one of the greats sites on the web, bar none:smallbiggrin:

[HalfTangible]

Buy the good men some rounds!

*holds up a bottle of Coca-Cola with 'Vodka' written on it*

Look im not old enough to get the real stuff, ok? :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

Buy the good men some rounds!What about the women, huh? Huh?! :smallannoyed:
...not that there's that many still moderating regularly :smallfrown:

[Renegade Paladin]

Very good. A liberalization was well overdue.
Oh sure, everyone says it now that it's done, but right up until the change this was the best-run board on the whole dang Internet to hear most of you tell it, and all those other people totally had it coming. :smalltongue:

[Serpentine]

People have been complaining about it forever :smallconfused: "Best-run" doesn't mean "perfect"...

[Recaiden]

I am somewhat less worried by the moderators here now. *applause*

[Toptomcat]

Oh sure, everyone says it now that it's done, but right up until the change this was the best-run board on the whole dang Internet to hear most of you tell it, and all those other people totally had it coming. :smalltongue:

That's because all public complaints about existing rules or moderator conduct are Infraction-worthy under the forum rules. The only discussion of this board's rules that is permitted is complementary or neutral.

[Lord Herman]

Hurray for the mod team! :smallsmile:

I like the first offence rule. Gives people a bit more warning they're doing something wrong before they actually get punished.

The shortened infraction expiration time seems like a good idea as well. Well-behaving folks with a not-so-well-behaving past will have less worries of slipping up and getting banned this way.

I'm not sure what the probation rule does. Is it simply a more official way of giving someone a final warning before they get banned? Or does it actually make it harder for someone to get banned?

[Roland St. Jude]

I'm not sure what the probation rule does. Is it simply a more official way of giving someone a final warning before they get banned? Or does it actually make it harder for someone to get banned?
Both. Now people officially go on Probation and can come off Probation when their points expire.

[Claudius Maximus]

That's because all public complaints about existing rules or moderator conduct are Infraction-worthy under the forum rules. The only discussion of this board's rules that is permitted is complementary or neutral.

What? We can totally complain and question the rules here. I'm pretty sure things have even been changed due to such complaints.

I think the mods are willing to hear our concerns, provided we don't come in complaining in the form of "Why are the moderators such horrible fascists?"

Also I'm pretty sure there's an appeal system for alleged moderator misconduct.

[pendell]

Oh sure, everyone says it now that it's done, but right up until the change this was the best-run board on the whole dang Internet to hear most of you tell it, and all those other people totally had it coming. :smalltongue:

The BEST run board on the internet is the one *I* mod over at PC Moot :smalltongue:.

But I stand by what I said. This was and is one of the best boards on the internet, and these rules make it still better. There's always room for improvement. Even if a board was "perfect" at one time, continued adaptation to the fluid environment of the web is necessary to keep it so. Something that was perfect in 1998 is badly antiquated in 2010, and our own rules need a revamping due to the age of the board and the lengthy time here of some of our contributors.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Toptomcat]

What? We can totally complain and question the rules here. I'm pretty sure things have even been changed due to such complaints.

I think the mods are willing to hear our concerns, provided we don't come in complaining in the form of "Why are the moderators such horrible fascists?"

Also I'm pretty sure there's an appeal system for alleged moderator misconduct.

I am afraid you are mistaken.


Infraction Types
Below are the various categories of Warnings and Infractions we use on this forum, and explanations for each.

...

Major Infractions

...


Posting on Inappropriate Topics
Any post that includes anything in the Inappropriate Topics (see below) will have that text deleted and the author will be issued an Infraction. If another poster ventures into an Inappropriate Topic matter, it does not give you a free pass to respond to his post with more discussion in that vein; there is no "He started it!" defense. Do not take it upon yourself to publicly reprimand the poster, either; you're not a Moderator. Simply report the post, and the Moderators will address the situation as necessary.

...

Inappropriate Topics
The following topics are always off-limits on these forums, no matter what (hence, Inappropriate Topics). Any posts including these topics will be edited, and any threads started to discuss these topics will be locked. Please note that, as specifically stated below, these topics remain off-limits even where they intersect with gaming or other activities discussed on these forums, and that putting an alert for "Adult" or "Mature" content on the thread does not allow circumvention of this rule. Likewise, if you can't post something under the Forum Rules, please don't link to that content.
...
Rules/Moderator Complaints: Our forum rules have all been carefully considered before being implemented, and we do expect that all users abide by them, even if they do not fully agree with them. We are happy to answer questions about the rules in the Board/Site Issues forum, but any threads that are purely complaints about existing rules will be removed, as would any threads consisting of complaints about specific moderators, or the moderators in general. If you have a concern involving a moderator, we ask that you send a PM to Roland St. Jude, the Forum Guru.

The rules may be inconsistently enforced, but the fact is that public criticism of any existing rules or moderators, regardless of tone, is an infraction by the letter of the rules. The formal process for review of moderator actions is strictly private, and any attempt to do so publicly is an infraction under those same rules.

[MoonCat]

I applaud as well, this makes me happy! Although I think I should point out Dvandemon, that anything you picked up before the rule change will stay two years length.

[Brother Oni]

The rules may be inconsistently enforced, but the fact is that public criticism of any existing rules or moderators, regardless of tone, is an infraction by the letter of the rules. The formal process for review of moderator actions is strictly private, and any attempt to do so publicly is an infraction under those same rules.

Which is perfectly in keeping with the nature of this board.

This board is technically a private board, just one that's open to public membership, thus it can whatever rules it likes, which you agree to when making an account here.

It's like a pub or bar that has a cover charge - if you have an issue with the way the club is run or the way you've been treated, take it up with the management in private.
Shouting about it in public will get you a warning and/or ejected from the premises.

The TLDR read version - Mr Burlew's board, Mr Burlew's rules.

[Mystic Muse]

Out of curiosity, will this affect any banned posters? For example, if somebody had previously been banned but wouldn't have been under the new rules would they be considered to possibly be allowed back?

Naturally, I would expect that they would have to ask to be allowed back since going over every banned poster would be an absolute nightmare, but I think it's a fair question.

[Trog]

Both. Now people officially go on Probation and can come off Probation when their points expire.
Yes, but what about...

<<
>>

Double Secret Probation™! O:

*togas*

[Roland St. Jude]

Out of curiosity, will this affect any banned posters? For example, if somebody had previously been banned but wouldn't have been under the new rules would they be considered to possibly be allowed back?

Naturally, I would expect that they would have to ask to be allowed back since going over every banned poster would be an absolute nightmare, but I think it's a fair question.
No. These rules are prospective only. People are welcome to ask though and we'll take a look.

Also, could people please stick to questions/issues regarding the new procedure and avoid general rule discussion/debate?

[HalfTangible]

What about the women, huh? Huh?! :smallannoyed:
...not that there's that many still moderating regularly :smallfrown:

I didn't offer because women don't like empty promises. :smalltongue: But if you want to get your hopes up, by all means, clamor for your share of the rounds that will never exist.

EDIT: Joke aside, i assumed 'women too' was understood and felt no need to clarify further.

[Raz_Fox]

Would it be possible for posters, under the new rules, to politely ask a moderator to inspect their record after a year's elapse in the hopes of getting their infractions treated as if they were under the new rules?

[_Zoot_]

Yay! Long live the Mods! Long live The Giant! (And their more lenient attitude! :smalltongue: )

[The Glyphstone]

Would it be possible for posters, under the new rules, to politely ask a moderator to inspect their record after a year's elapse in the hopes of getting their infractions treated as if they were under the new rules?

It wouldn't do any good. From what Roland has posted and I personally understand, it's physically impossible by the forum software to alter the expiration dates of infractions that have already been issued prior to the date changing.

The rules do already include a clause though that says infraction issued pre-change that would have expired under the new rules are taken into account when assessing Probation status, so you're in the clear anyways.

[Yora]

What actually changed?

[Roland St. Jude]

What actually changed?

There's a new global announcement of the top of every forum that explains it much more precisely than any summary one could provide.

[tomaO2]

I am very much in favor of a relaxation of the forum rules but I'm not sure what growth is hoped for by changing them.

I personally don't know of a bigger webcomic, messenger board then this one. Does anyone else?

[Serpentine]

It's not a relaxation, from what I understand, just a few more "second chances". I'm not sure what growth you think they're after... :smallconfused:

[tomaO2]

"Over the past few months, I've become concerned over the long-term effects of some aspects of our moderation and infraction system. After discussing it with our moderators, I've come to the conclusion that we need to institute some reforms in our management of the message boards, in order to ensure the continued growth of this community."

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=29&a=61

I meant the penalty admistration. I understand that the rules themselves are unchanged.

In any case, I'm not sure what growth THEY think they are after either. Which is why I made my post. I'm for anything that gives a breather to posters but I'm confused by the logic of needing it for "continued growth".

[Serpentine]

I'd imagine it's along the lines of "one's growth as a person". Development, improvement, maturation. That sorta thing.

[Jimorian]

It's not so much a campaign to create new growth, it's a change in the procedures to make sure the moderating staff can keep up with the natural growth we already have.

With quicker infraction expirations, those posters who can successfully self-regulate enough to keep their infractions below the probationary level don't hit the moderation team radars so often and they can then concentrate on the few who can't quite seem to get the hang of what's required here.

But as has been repeatedly stated, the actual rules remain the same and we can't just start spouting off about forbidden topics or getting into flamefests without ultimately paying the price for that behavior.

EDIT: and what Serpentine said. :smallsmile:

[skywalker]

I'd imagine it's along the lines of "one's growth as a person". Development, improvement, maturation. That sorta thing.

Also consider that a solid community of long-timers helps attract future long-timers, not just willy-nilly posters. As has been said before, if your long-term contributors are regularly culled, you have no stable base from which to grow. The community is not as healthy as it could be in that scenario.

I've never been in the situation or close to someone who has, so I can't really comment on the usefulness of the change. Never really had an issue with the moderation system, altho I understood the complaints of those who did. HOWEVER, it seems to be highly welcome among those who do have several infractions and among highly social board members who probably deal with this a lot more often than I do (how often do you have to deal with it to be "a lot more" than zero?). So I say three cheers as well.

[Lady Tialait]

I, for one, welcome our new liberal overlord's rules.

[Prime32]

I'm confused. Apart from the length of infractions, I thought that's how the rules were already enforced. :smallconfused: At least, I have multiple warnings and 0 infractions under the old rules. Would I have 1 warning and multiple infractions under the new ones?

And I thought that hitting 300 points didn't get you banned anyway, just made you a candidate. I've heard one person was at 450 before they were kicked out. I don't see how Probation is different from increasing the threshold to 301.

[Rawhide]

[...] I have multiple warnings and 0 infractions under the old rules. Would I have 1 warning and multiple infractions under the new ones?

If you received a warning under the old system, you would still receive a warning under the new system. The new rules don't mean that if you already have a warning, you're definitely going to get an infraction, only that if you don't have a warning or infraction for the same offence already, you are more likely to get a warning.


And I thought that hitting 300 points didn't get you banned anyway, just made you a candidate. I've heard one person was at 450 before they were kicked out. I don't see how Probation is different from increasing the threshold to 301.

Getting 300 points brought your account up for review. Your posting history, infractions and warnings would be examined and, while it was unlikely, you could then be immediately banned. In almost all cases, people were given a further chance to change.

[The Glyphstone]

It's partly a terminology change - 'Probation' is friendlier-sounding than 'Stay of Ban', even if mechanically the process hasn't actually changed a bit. Aside from that, what Rawhide said.

[grimbold]

I am somewhat less worried by the moderators here now. *applause*

my thoughts exactly now i feel a bit more comfortable in these glorious forums

[blackjack217]

To anyone confused by the new rules here is a summery:
Happiness is mandatory,
Failure to be happy is an infraction,
Infractions are punishable by banning.

[The Glyphstone]

To anyone confused by the new rules here is a summery:
Happiness is mandatory,
Failure to be happy is an infraction,
Infractions are punishable by banning.

Hail Friend Computer Burlew!

[Asthix]

It's partly a terminology change - 'Probation' is friendlier-sounding than 'Stay of Ban', even if mechanically the process hasn't actually changed a bit. Aside from that, what Rawhide said.

Thank you for answering my question that didn't get answered before the other thread about the changes got locked. :smallsmile:

[Pokonic]

Well, I must say, I am pleased with the new layout for the forums and the rule changes, equaly. I must congratulate the mods for the new rules and for making one of the best forums around even better>:smallredface:

[Flame of Anor]

The rules may be inconsistently enforced, but the fact is that public criticism of any existing rules or moderators, regardless of tone, is an infraction by the letter of the rules.


To anyone confused by the new rules here is a summery:
Happiness is mandatory,
Failure to be happy is an infraction,
Infractions are punishable by banning.

All hail our mod overlords! Did I say overlords? I meant protectors! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DyxaCYlfg) :smallbiggrin:


...I will return to my fun now. banana

[abadguy]

Growth and maturation of the forum as a whole is good. This move is timely, since long time forum members police the boards better than a small group of mods and so many posts. I rem when I joined back in 2004, it was way more chaotic, hence I deigned to post much, preferring to lurk. And the overloaded servers didn't help either :smallsmile:

I suppose that is why the mods and rules had to be more draconian then and relaxed now. Things here, much better now.

[Roland St. Jude]

Growth and maturation of the forum as a whole is good. This move is timely, since long time forum members police the boards better than a small group of mods and so many posts. I rem when I joined back in 2004, it was way more chaotic, hence I deigned to post much, preferring to lurk. And the overloaded servers didn't help either :smallsmile:

I suppose that is why the mods and rules had to be more draconian then and relaxed now. Things here, much better now.Sheriff: This post seems to grossly mischaracterize the nature of the changes. First, long time forum members are still not permitted to police other posters (vigilante modding) nor do we believe that having them do so would be beneficial to the board. Second, while there are many posts, there is also, since the last major forum software switch a built in reporting feature that very effectively allows a relatively small number of moderators handle the entire forum. Third, the Forum Rules are exactly the same as they have been for the last couple years and are fundamentally the same as they were when the forum was started.

On that note, I think that I'm going to lock this thread before it leads to further misinformation or misunderstanding.

We're glad you folks like the changes in procedure. We're always reconsidering our rules and procedures to make the board run more effectively.