Caverns & Cavemen [d20]

[Darth Stabber]

So a friend and I were talking about sitting down and making a Caveman + Dinosaurs game. We were going to sit down with the SRD and stitch together all the accoutrements for a full on, historically inaccurate, caveman game.

Couple questions:
Is there any existing 3rd party d20 game for this? Other systems are okay, but I have an easier time brewing out d20 content.

Does anyone have any Ideas for this to go along with what I have already brewed up.

Current Thoughts

Races
Cro-Magnon - probably normal humans. The most advanced race, they have slightly better technology (IE they use bows instead of throwing spears)
Neanderthal - new version, not the frostburn version
Velociraptor - evolved with more intellect and with some LA attached
???? - Need a couple more

Classes
Warrior - Big burly fighting man, somewhere between fighter and barbarian.
Hunter - brings down big game, stealthy. Ranger/scout-ish. Spearthrowing/bow and arrow
Gatherer? - Skillmonkey, handles most things that aren't killing, also some combat ability would be nice. Maybe rogue-ish?
Shaman - Magic (though not like wiz/cleric) - some kind of mix of totemist, druid, and dragon shaman, some divination abilities.
Cheiftain - Tribal leader with some kind of bard/marshal/crusader combo.
???? - There should be atleast 1 more class if not more.

Design notes

With magic, the focus will be more on passive and/or subtle effects. "Magic" items are primarily proven items, from tribemembers who accomplised a great task with their mundane version. Monster hunt and tribal warfare would be the most common adventures.

Any one have any Ideas to go along with this?

[Blynkibrax]

Oog like this thread. :smallsmile:

[Yora]

I'll also keep an eye on this. But sadly not much to contribute now.

How much do you want it to be an "Ice Age game" as opposed to a "Tech Level 1 fantasy game"?
In the case of primitive fantasy, I'd suggest including and making heavy use of spirits. Especially animal- and place-spirits, the fey folk might not be that appropriate with their magic castles.

[Fri]

have the 'extinct super advanced ancient civilization' actually only have medieval level tech :smallbiggrin:

[Blynkibrax]

How about a 'beastmaster' class, representing man's taming of the savage beasts of the wilderness? Wolves, wild horses, maybe even the mighty mammoth?

And if you wanted to bring dinosaurs into it, there's loads in LOTRfan's thread! :smallwink:

[Darth Stabber]

Notes:

I am trying to avoid the post apocalypse trope. No super advanced forebearers.

Traditional spellcasting would be the sole province of dragons and outsiders.

Classes that are considered magic, but have no spells/powers are the primary magicians. Wizards don't exist because no dragon or outsider has taught any one, and they haven't learned it themselves. The dragon's blood of sorcerers is so rare and fresh at this point that anyone that had it would likely be a half-dragon.

Clerics don't exist yet, because there is no worship of Gods, reverence is held for spirits, animals (including dragons and magical beasts), and ancestors.

Classes I am currently considering modding for this:
Dragon Shaman - lose the dragon flavor.
Binder - they don't bind vestiges, but the spirits of ancestors
Totemist - They get their power from reverence for and emulation of powerful creatures.
Barbarian - Tribal warriors
Ranger - Tribal hunters
Scout - As above
Crusader - heavy refluff, they work by inspiring their tribemates, probably focused on a modded white raven style.
Marshal - similar to above
Bard - toughened up, and spellcasting replaced with something else.
Wilder - The only thing close to a caster currently on the table. Probably a primarily NPC class, flavored as being outcast at a young age, and forced to survive on their own in the wild, against dinosaurs.
Warlock/DFA - as above.
Druid - Replacing the spellcasting with something else.
Fighter - unlikely, but a less angry warrior type might work well.\
Rogue - could be a good gatherer/hunter after a serious rework of skill list.

Skills
There would be some heavy modding here. Skill combining is a good thing, but with certain things no longer existing the number of skills needed is limited. UMD is gone, openlock gone, disable device gone. History and noblility knowledges will get combined (into one). Arcana and religion combined (as the two are 1 for their purposes). so many others.

Combat
No squishy casters, every one is expected to pull their weight in combat. With the major buffs being auras there is little need for buff up time. There will be no 1/2BAB, and no hit dice below d8, every one is expected to take a hit, and hit something.

Common Non-humanoids
Forget about half the MM1, the list is being rather restricted. Dinosaurs are obviously in. Mastermind abberations are right out, the animalistic ones will probably just end up as magical beasts. Undead are Rare, Rare, Rare. Outsiders are unlikely to show up, as the residents here are unlikely to affect their balance, so to are the outsiders staying out of it. Certains exceptions (I want Couatl) will be made, but might incur a type change. Constructs are gone (no one knows how to make them (worry no caveforged)). Animals, plants, vemin, magical beasts, other humanoids, these are your enemies. CR is likely to need a tweaking since there are few ways to get certain wizard/cleric abilities, meaning that enemies that assume you have them, are likely to screw you over entirely. Dinosaurs, Mammoths, Smilodons, Megatherium (giant ground sloths), and other prehistoric goodies are a go.

Plot hooks.
-Another tribe has been stealing your food supplies
-A pack of wolves has killed tribe members while they were out gathering.
-You need to take down another mastadon or two to have enough food for winter
-To prove your Status (adulthood, manhood, womanhood, claim mantle of leadership), you have to bring back the dead body of an X, or survive on you own for Y time.
-The tribe needs to find a new place to set up a village, you must find the site. Or your tribe has grown too large for the immediate area, you are too take a portion of the tribe and find a new home and form a new tribe.

[Debihuman]

Is there any existing 3rd party d20 game for this? Other systems are okay, but I have an easier time brewing out d20 content.

You might want check out Broncosaurus Rex, which is d20 and available online for about 10 bucks.



In the year 2202, dinosaurs have been discovered on the planet Cretasus. The major factions in human politics rush to establish a military presence, even as pioneers from across the galaxy come to farm, hunt, and domesticate the dinos. T-rex families raid mining colonies, dino ranchers herd stegosauus (the new white meat), velociraptor tribes plot with their human allies to secure prime hunting grounds, and warp pirates ambush safari hunters who have come to hunt the biggest game.

This d20 sourcebook includes:

* d20 stats for 24 dinosaurs and other prehistoric creatures, including details on society, politics, language, and even NPC character classes
* Expanded feats and skills for riding, herding, and fighting with dinosaurs
* Six new d20 character classes: bronco riders, machinists, soldiers, spies, two-fisters, and wild ones
* Broncosaurus Rex campaign source material and adventure ideas
* Stats for futuristic weapons

Debby

[LOTRfan]

Shameless Self Advertising (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174998). :smallwink:

Anyway, for races, have you considered making ancient ancestors for the core races? I mean, I can see how you could stat out Homo floresiensis and refluff them as Halfling ancestors.

I'm bookmarking this. :smallsmile:

[Blynkibrax]

Oh, man, I'm having visions of Stone Age dwarves, now. It really works. Imagine, the most ancient ancestors of their race, burrowing deep into the earth, creating the first of the dwarfholds, their mountain homes, jealously guarding the secrets of fire and the forge...

[radmelon]

Thog think thread look interesting. Ook.

[Blynkibrax]

Thog think thread look interesting. Ook.
Oog like way Thog think. :smallwink:

[Lyndworm]

I'll be keeping an eye on this... Just so you have the lin handy, if nothing else, here's a community project from over on the old Wizard's forums that might interested you: The Dinosaur Menagerie (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19547154/Dinosaur_Menagerie?pg=1).

[Mayhem]

Yeah man, I'll be cheering you on at the side lines!

Neanderthals had very awkward sholder joints that would have made throwing very difficult. That gave our ancestors a slight edge, but there isn't evidence of violence between them. I know you aren't going for accuracy, I just thought it was interesting.

I'd make neanderthals basically dwarves. They had massive occipital buns which probably gave them great eyesight but they lacked in the forebrain which would have stunted them socially. They could eat raw meat while our ancestors could not, and judging by their thick jaws they likely consumed a lot of tough plants like roots and nuts. Yep, close enough to dwarves for me.
Here's my take:
•+2 Constitution, -2 Charisma.
•Size: Medium
•Base land speed is 20 feet. However, neanderthals can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load (unlike other creatures, whose speed is reduced in such situations).
•Lowlight vision
•Stability: A dwarf gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
•-4 penalty to thrown weapons. Neanderthals possess awkward shoulder joints making throwing very difficult.
•+2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
•+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
•+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or wooden items.
•+2 racial bonus on Craft checks that are related to stone or wood.
•+2 racial bonus on survival checks.

[Melayl]

Classes
Warrior - Big burly fighting man, somewhere between fighter and barbarian.
Hunter - brings down big game, stealthy. Ranger/scout-ish. Spearthrowing/bow and arrow
Gatherer? - Skillmonkey, handles most things that aren't killing, also some combat ability would be nice. Maybe rogue-ish?
Shaman - Magic (though not like wiz/cleric) - some kind of mix of totemist, druid, and dragon shaman, some divination abilities.
Cheiftain - Tribal leader with some kind of bard/marshal/crusader combo.
???? - There should be atleast 1 more class if not more.

My own shameless self plug. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139664) I think it might fit well in your world. Please avoid Raising the thread, as it has been dead for some time...

[Cyanidesoul]

I believe there's a book called "Lost Prehistorica" which is all about D&D and dinosaurs.

[Darkkwalker]

I think it would be a mistake to remove the disable device skill. It is a very common technique for hunter-gatherers to use traps like snares and pit traps. So they'd likely still exist, and could be disabled. Pit traps not so much, but definitely things like snares, or deadfall traps definitely.
and that's my 2 cp.

[SPoD]

Some sort of mounted combat class, for riding dinosaurs.

For races, what about the shifter? Or anthropomorphic animals, like ape or monkey?