Hypothetical Heavy Hitter

[Uhtred]

So I'm on the fence about the Centaur I posted earlier. I've got great love for the race, but was challenged by my old DM to build a fighter that was a better heavy-hitter than a Centaur. That's when I discovered the Half-Minotaur template. And applying it to a Goliath. Here are the questions, preceded by several statements that exist to ensure I fully grasp what's happening in this build.

So, the Half-Minotaur template increases size. So the Goliath, treated as a medium critter, gets promoted to Large, with all the benefits thereof. At that point, does Powerful Build get upgraded to treat him as Huge-sized? Can he then wield Huge-sized weapons? Additionally, if his first level is in Goliath Barbarian and he gets Mountain Rage, which comes with a size increase, does he legitimately BECOME Huge-sized, and Powerful Build get upgraded to Gargantuan stats? It says you don't get bonuses to hit or grapple because Powerful Build takes care of all of that already? And would Mountain Rage stack with something like Enlarge Person, which would take him up to Gargantuan size? And would Monkey Grip let him wield weapons, even not in rage, of gargantuan size?

[Telonius]

At that point, does Powerful Build get upgraded to treat him as Huge-sized?

I think at that point, the character is eaten by a Grue. Half-Minotaur is widely considered awfully cheesy, and trying to apply that cheese to a race that's already commonly used in size optimization is going to be more cheese than most DMs would allow.

But yes, Powerful Build doesn't specify "Large," it specifies "One category larger." It also explicitly states that it stacks with any effects that change the creature's size. For Mountain Rage, it's a bit less clear, since it specifies an increase to Large. You might "reasonably" argue that it was intended to read, "one size category larger," but it's not explicitly spelled out. Monkey Grip would allow him to use weapons of one category larger than "normal," so yes. Probably not advisable, but if you're going for maximum ridiculousness, go ahead.

[No brains]

If you want to see the dramatic spray of the tides of the Sea of Cheese, you could make a half-minotaur, stoneboned, Diopsid with enlarge weapon! You're only 10ft tall, but you can wield a colossal fullblade!

[subject42]

If you want to see the dramatic spray of the tides of the Sea of Cheese, you could make a half-minotaur, stoneboned, Diopsid with enlarge weapon! You're only 10ft tall, but you can wield a colossal fullblade!

Or, alternately, an awakened housefly with Titan bloodline. The only problem is that you need to figure out where he fits that hammer.

[No brains]

Or, alternately, an awakened housefly with Titan bloodline. The only problem is that you need to figure out where he fits that hammer.

Tch! You unrefined proletariat! A housefly is a vermin!
That would never work! O-ho!

[VirOath]

Powerful Build: Yes, if a large sized creature has Powerful Build it allows them to count as a Huge sized creature. The ability doesn't say Large, it says "One Size Category Larger"

Mountain Rage: No. While Mountain Rage mentions "Grow to Large Size" this could be read as just increasing one size category. But either way, Mountain Rage goes out of it's way to say that it suppresses Powerful Build while in use. Being, that he does not gain additional benefits on weapon size and grapple
checks due to already having them from the Powerful build ability.

If weapon size was just mentioned, then I would say you could get away with that as it is something that is static, unless a spell makes the weapon grow with you it is a separate entity and not affected. But the mention of not getting a bonus on grapple checks as well means that the size increase from Mountain Rage relies upon the Powerful Build in the first place, going as far to mention that the growth in size isn't the full % increase normally applied to a size increase.

[subject42]

Tch! You unrefined proletariat! A housefly is a vermin!
That would never work! O-ho!

Sorry, I was thinking Pathfinder for a moment, where you can force it to work (http://www.pathfindersrd.com/feats/general-feats/vermin-heart).

[herrhauptmann]

And would Monkey Grip let him wield weapons, even not in rage, of gargantuan size?

Monkey grip is a trap. Can't believe no one has said it already.
Better off just buying strong arm bracers (MiC), and/or a [Heavy] Weapon made of gold or platinum (MoF).

[Lateral]

Heavy hitter as in maximum damage, or biggest sword? If it's the first, then Half-Minotaur Goliath Lion Totem Barbarian with Shock Trooper, Power Attack, and Leap Attack. If the second, then same thing, but also with Titan bloodline and a Heavy weapon for that deliciously cheesy Colossal+ warhammer you can wield with those two and Powerful Build.

Your DM challenged you, after all. :smallwink:

[Eldariel]

Uh, suggestion:
- Make a Human
- Deal more damage through the extra feat than you could through the extra size/strength

Human is as mundane as you can get. Sounds like that's what he wants; something normal that's better than the monster race that is Centaur.


But no, Monkey Grip does not stack with other virtual weapon size increases (Powerful Build, Strongarm Bracers). Basically, they all allow you to wield weapons one category larger than your normal size. Since none of them touch your normal size, there's no way to stack them; they're all based on your actual size.

[herrhauptmann]

Uhtred, I haven't seen this centaur of yours, but I've got a question. Have you looked at the Bariaur race for your quadrupedal shenanigans?
The version sitting in the Manual of the Planes (get the 3.5 update) has only a LA of +1 or 2. No racial hit dice.
Whereas the centaur has what, 4 HD and +2 LA?
Depending on what you were going for with your centaur, that would be much better.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/planar_gallery/82502.jpg
vs
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG32.jpg

[grimbold]

Or, alternately, an awakened housefly with Titan bloodline. The only problem is that you need to figure out where he fits that hammer.

until of course the housefly is accidentally smushed
he must have horrid CON