Should Mr Scruffy be punished? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 04:32 PM

I think that this whole idea is bad and you should feel bad.

QFT.

Scruffy? Really? Xykon, Belkar, Tarquin, slave owners, the Empress, Nale, Sabine, Thog, Hilgya, etc etc etc, and you want to punish the cat? For protecting it's apparently beloved master?

Really now?

pendell

2011-03-18, 04:32 PM

He's an animal. He doesn't have a sense of right and wrong. So "punishment" is besides the point.

In the real-world ethics I was taught, man-killing animals are destroyed without exception not as punishment, but because it's usually a bad idea to let animals with a taste for human meat run wild. IIRC, attack dogs in the real world are put down after they are no longer useful for that very reason. They can't do their jobs anymore, and you don't dare stick some poor unsuspect family with 'em.

But then, the real world doesn't have ranger animal companions. If we put down Scruffy, we'd have to put down Windstriker as well! I don't think that works in D&D.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 04:34 PM

He's an animal. He doesn't have a sense of right and wrong. So "punishment" is besides the point.

Well he does have 12+ INT. :smallbiggrin:Joking of course.

G-Man Graves

2011-03-18, 04:34 PM

I take it back. This whole thread is bad. Everyone involved should feel bad.

Chaos rising

2011-03-18, 04:40 PM

I take it back. This whole thread is bad. Everyone involved should feel bad.

But, by posting that, aren't you also involved?

ThePhantasm

2011-03-18, 04:43 PM

martianmister

2011-03-18, 04:44 PM

I think that this whole idea is bad and you should feel bad.

In real world, human-killer animals are killed for what they did. And Scruffy is more intelligent than a simple animal...

QFT.

Scruffy? Really? Xykon, Belkar, Tarquin, slave owners, the Empress, Nale, Sabine, Thog, Hilgya, etc etc etc, and you want to punish the cat? For protecting it's apparently beloved master?

Really now?

:smallsigh:

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 04:48 PM

You know, people are really scraping the bottom of the barrel for thread topics these days. Is it just me or have 50% of the threads in the past week either a) made no sense b) been just plain silly or c) been based on easily refutable ideas?

Five of the threads on the first page have been made by the same person (not Martian, btw).
Hilariously, Martian's other thread on the first page questions the Kitty's alignment.

Incidentally, would be nice if you elaborated on that patronizing smiley martianmister.

G-Man Graves

2011-03-18, 04:57 PM

But, by posting that, aren't you also involved?

Yeah, I am. And I feel bad. Do you feel bad? You should feel bad.

In real world, human-killer animals are killed for what they did. And Scruffy is more intelligent than a simple animal...

Yes, but I realized a short while ago that this is not the real world. My first hint was the fact that there were 6 seemingly human people fighting people with fangs and green skin in the first strip. My second hint was magic.

TheBlackShadow

2011-03-18, 04:58 PM

We're talking about an empire where gladiators fight to the death for nothing more than entertainment. I don't think the establishment will care particularly about a cat or any other animal killing someone when it slaughters its own people on a regular basis, and especially not about a cat killing a gladiator who lives for the sole purpose of dying. Besides, I'm not sure about laws on the subject in my or any other country, but I'd imagine that society would look relatively favourably on an animal that came to its master's aid in a life-or-death situation (although I suspect that Mr. Scruffy's intervention had just as much to do with recognising the Commoner as prey as helping out Belkar, who would have made short work of him anyway. :smallamused:)

Nero24200

2011-03-18, 05:06 PM

Should any OOTS member be punished for killing anyone that threatens their allies/loved ones? If not, then Mr Scruffy shouldn't be either.

Defending others isn't really an evil act in D'n'D. Killing with a reason isn't even evil in D'n'D (after all, the Lawful Good paladin's main class features is the ability to kill evil more easily).

martianmister

2011-03-18, 05:18 PM

Incidentally, would be nice if you elaborated on that patronizing smiley martianmister.

Listing evil and "should-be-punished" people is irrevelant to Mr Scruffy's punishment and this thread...

Yes, but I realized a short while ago that this is not the real world. My first hint was the fact that there were 6 seemingly human people fighting people with fangs and green skin in the first strip. My second hint was magic.

So it's okay to kill innocents because it's a fantasy world? I get it...

We're talking about an empire where gladiators fight to the death for nothing more than entertainment.

Well, I was talking about OOTS and other good guys, not evil establishment of EOB.

Should any OOTS member be punished for killing anyone that threatens their allies/loved ones?

Yes, if that person is innocent and "loved one" is evil...

Nero24200

2011-03-18, 05:36 PM

Yes, if that person is innocent and "loved one" is evil...

Well for one thing the gladiator wasn't innocent. He made it clear how much he wanted to kill Belkar before the fight even began. It didn't sound like he was fighting out of self-defence.

And well...if that's how alignment worked in D'n'D then alot of characters would become evil very easily. A misunderstanding causes a bar fight? You're evil now since one of the people you punched was good aligned - They also become evil if you were good when they socked you one.

Killing others isn't evil in D'n'D, especially when the person you kill is trying to kill you or someone else. Some people would even argue that in RL it's okay to kill out of self defence or to protect someone in immediate danger.

Kish

2011-03-18, 05:40 PM

G-Man Graves is right. Also...

In real world, human-killer animals are killed for what they did. And Scruffy is more intelligent than a simple animal...

I hope you realize your two sentences oppose rather than supporting each other.

KoboldRevenge

2011-03-18, 05:44 PM

So it's okay to kill innocents because it's a fantasy world? I get it...
Yes It's baiscly accepted especially when it's a cat whos intelligence is unknow if he knew the ramifications of what he was doing.

we'll i was talking about oots not the evil establishment of the EOB
What like scolding him and saying not to attack commeners that are threatening your master?

Yes, if that person is innocent and the "loved one" is evil
Do you know what he was in there for? He could have been a murderer. and if that cat or anyone loves someone they usually protect them from danger if they can...

I take it back. This whole thread is bad. Everyone involved should feel bad.
I REGRET NOTHING!!!

G-Man Graves

2011-03-18, 05:52 PM

G-Man Graves is right. Also...

As in I'm right with "This is a fantasy world, stop being dumb" or "This is a bad thread, stop being dumb"?

Thanatosia

2011-03-18, 05:52 PM

This thread and it's OP reeks of an odor usually found under Bridges or in ruins with names that begin with 'Zul'.

homersolo

2011-03-18, 05:57 PM

Um, did y'all forget that the fighters had all been convicted of crimes and sentenced to fight in the gladitorial games? Clearly he wasn't innocent.

martianmister

2011-03-18, 06:12 PM

Well for one thing the gladiator wasn't innocent. He made it clear how much he wanted to kill Belkar before the fight even began. It didn't sound like he was fighting out of self-defence.

Belkar is an evil person. He wants to steal other people's breads, oppress them and kill them in arena...JUST FOR FUN! I'm sure Roy doesn't care about his death in there...

I hope you realize your two sentences oppose rather than supporting each other.

Uh, no it's not...

What like scolding him and saying not to attack commeners that are threatening your master?

I don't know, maybe something can teach him or STOP him from killing other innocent people...

Do you know what he was in there for? He could have been a murderer.

His alleged crime is irrevelant to his death...

and if that cat or anyone loves someone they usually protect them from danger if they can...

So Tsukiko's protect Xykon is okay for you, hmmm...

Um, did y'all forget that the fighters had all been convicted of crimes and sentenced to fight in the gladitorial games? Clearly he wasn't innocent.

We are talking about an EVIL EMPIRE...

KoboldRevenge

2011-03-18, 06:17 PM

Lawful EVIL :smallwink:

martianmister

2011-03-18, 06:20 PM

Lawful EVIL :smallwink:

Yes, LAWFUL with EVIL laws. Do you think Roy isn't innocent either? :smallyuk:

Thanatosia

2011-03-18, 06:34 PM

Yes, LAWFUL with EVIL laws. Do you think Roy isn't innocent either?
Technically speaking, he is not. He was convicted of sneaking into the city without proper papers, and he snuck into the city without proper papers.

Darth Hunterix

2011-03-18, 06:46 PM

Oh, wicked, bad, naughty Mr. Scruffy! He must pay the penalty! And here, in The Playground, we have but one punishment for killing commoners. You must tie him and give him a decent bath!

Forum Explorer

2011-03-18, 07:05 PM

Oh, wicked, bad, naughty Mr. Scruffy! He must pay the penalty! And here, in The Playground, we have but one punishment for killing commoners. You must tie him and give him a decent bath!

A bath! a bath! :smallbiggrin:

Honestly why should he be punished? Also how? Mr. Scruffy is a cat who killed someone who was going to die anyways who was threatening his beloved pet.

The Unlucky One

2011-03-18, 07:05 PM

Yes, LAWFUL with EVIL laws. Do you think Roy isn't innocent either? :smallyuk:

Roy isn't innocent. Even in the real world, entering a nation without proper paper is a crime. We usually call that illegal immigration...

And for you, killing a murderer (i.e. Belkar) in cold blood (or in combat) is ok, but defending your loved ones (alignment doesn't matter in that case) from someone who explicitly threatened him is something that should be punished?

I'm happy you're not the one writing the laws...

PS: And you could argue the death was accidental since it takes probably only 11-14 dmg to put him to -10 (critical hit+ Rule of funny dmg). You can't prove Mr. Scruffy wanted to kill him.

grimbold

2011-03-18, 07:11 PM

hes a cat
once more
hes a cat
also the guy was meant to die anyway so i dont think it was a big deal

TimelordSimone

2011-03-18, 07:57 PM

His alleged crime is irrevelant to his death...

Then his 'innocence' is also irrelevant, no? :smalltongue:

Conuly

2011-03-18, 08:38 PM

Even in the real world, entering a nation without proper paper is a crime. We usually call that illegal immigration...

Only if you plan to stay. If you just, say, wandered over the border to Canada while camping and then wandered back that'd just be jumping the border, not actually illegal immigration.

The OotS don't plan to settle in the EoB, haven't taken any jobs there, haven't set up any form of permanent residence (well, except for Elan, I guess, but being the General's son means he's probably exempt from this ANYway), and generally haven't, well, immigrated there.

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 09:11 PM

Listing evil and "should-be-punished" people is irrevelant to Mr Scruffy's punishment and this thread...

Apparently you failed to read my entire post.
I was pointing out how absurd you're being by having apparently determined Mr.Scruffy's singular murder to be more outstanding and more deserving of attention than any act of horror committed by the above, as you so eloquently described them, "'should-be-punished (nice vocabulary there)' people."

Naturally, I'm not bothering with the other half dozen topics already rampant in this thread. To say nothing of the played out questions concerning morality (which I thought this forum had rules against).

martianmister

2011-03-18, 09:33 PM

Apparently you failed to read my entire post.

No I did read it. All other examples are villains, there is no point in showing Satan' evil deeds, because everybody knows he is evil. Mr Scruffy is under supervision and control of OOTS: It's their duty to stop him.

So, everybody but me is okay with Mr Scruffy's killing an innocent person? Okay then...:smallfrown:

G-Man Graves

2011-03-18, 10:00 PM

Yeah, believe it or not, we have a hard time calling convicted criminals innocent. Don't let it get you down though, bud!

Forum Explorer

2011-03-18, 10:04 PM

So, everybody but me is okay with Mr Scruffy's killing an innocent person? Okay then...:smallfrown:

Yes yes you are. In fact I want to see Mr. Scruffy kill more people. Innocent or not it doesn't matter.

Innis Cabal

2011-03-18, 10:07 PM

So, everybody but me is okay with Mr Scruffy's killing an innocent person? Okay then...:smallfrown:

The statement begs a question. How do you know the man was innocent.

G-Man Graves

2011-03-18, 10:08 PM

The statement begs a question. How do you know the man was innocent.

Oh, he knows. Without any shadow of a doubt. Why else would he make this well thought out and even better received thread?

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 11:02 PM

No I did read it. All other examples are villains, there is no point in showing Satan' evil deeds, because everybody knows he is evil. Mr Scruffy is under supervision and control of OOTS: It's their duty to stop him.

So, everybody but me is okay with Mr Scruffy's killing an innocent person? Okay then...:smallfrown:

Oh right. Good point, very well thought out. You're right, since Scruffy is under the supervision of the oots, he is in fact a new and exciting concept that the forums have yet to beat to death. Surely there could not possibly be another person, perhaps someone more inclined to Evil, and perhaps someone on that list, who could ever posit such a discussion.

Seriously, you could rival Rebecca Black's intelligence.

...I kinda want to say something about your perception of the oots' duties, but that's a different discussion.

Thanatosia

2011-03-18, 11:27 PM

Seriously, you could rival Rebecca Black's intelligence.
Ouch, harsh. But hey, it's Friday!

HappyBlanket

2011-03-18, 11:35 PM

Ouch, harsh. But hey, it's Friday!

Today, 12:02 AM #37

I waited for this. I knew this would happen. I anticipated this.
And you know what?

It's not Friday. It's twelve AM. SO THERE.

Andraste

2011-03-19, 12:11 AM

I waited for this. I knew this would happen. I anticipated this.
And you know what?

It's not Friday. It's twelve AM. SO THERE.

Well that depends on where you are.

On topic: No, Mr Scruffy should not be punished. He's just defending his master. If someone, even a person with intelligence, not a cat, attacks someone who is threatening to kill their allies, that's not evil. If you mean punished by law, I doubt that they would care about a cat killing someone in an arena designed for people to kill each other in. Also, I'd like to point out that HE'S A CAT.