Eschew Materials Free for Sorcerers?

[Gamer Girl]

One of the most common houserules is ''Sorcerers get the feat Eschew Materials for free''.

But Why?

[tyckspoon]

Because it provides symmetry with the Wizard's free feat at first level, and because fluff-wise, it doesn't make a lot of sense that a spontaneous caster needs those little bits of flotsam and detritus to cause magic to happen. He has magic in his soul, the knowledge of his spells comes to him without study or sometimes even intent.. so why does he still have to fuss with all the little accoutrements Wizards use?

[hivedragon]

sorcerers really should get as many metamagic feats as the wizard

[Marnath]

Goes with the fluff of their power being inherent in their blood, they don't have to mess around with all the little bits of nonsense a wizard needs because they can just draw on the magic released by said components without the middleman.

[Telonius]

It's one of my own houserules. To be totally honest, it wouldn't have much mechanical effect either way. When's the last time anybody really checked to see if either a Wizard or a Sorcerer had that component pouch? Or that either one was caught without his spell component pouch? Yeah, it could theoretically happen, but I don't think I've ever seen it in any game I've played or DM'd. So material components (except expensive stuff and focus items) are more towards the fluff than the mechanics. So the Wizard has to pay 5gp at first level, and the Sorcerer gets his "magic in my blood" schtick.

Also, Sorcerers are supposed to have high charisma. Nobody's going to consider you charismatic if your hands are covered in bat poo and sulphur.

[Skaven]

Mainly because it makes sense.

Sorcerers have natural magic. Its in their blood / soul. The idea that they would never be able to cast spells unless they fiddles with certain very specific items makes no sense for them lore-wise.

[Gamer Girl]

It makes sense, except for this wrinkle: what about components that cost more then 1 gp?

A Sorcerer can cast spells all day long with just their 'blood', but they are suddenly stopped by an expensive component? How does that work? They can freely cast fireball, but 'don't have enough blood' to cast forcecage without a handful of ruby dust?

So a sorcerer still needs diamonds, but not dirt? Other then the 'game balance', how do you see that working?

And does anyone have a homebrewed 'Improved Eschew Materials feat'? Something where a Sorcerer would give up something other then money for material components?

[IthroZada]

And does anyone have a homebrewed 'Improved Eschew Materials feat'? Something where a Sorcerer would give up something other then money for material components?

Something similar to that rule in Vow of Poverty that lets you spend exp instead of gold would be easy.

[MammonAzrael]

It makes sense, except for this wrinkle: what about components that cost more then 1 gp?

A Sorcerer can cast spells all day long with just their 'blood', but they are suddenly stopped by an expensive component? How does that work? They can freely cast fireball, but 'don't have enough blood' to cast forcecage without a handful of ruby dust?

So a sorcerer still needs diamonds, but not dirt? Other then the 'game balance', how do you see that working?

And does anyone have a homebrewed 'Improved Eschew Materials feat'? Something where a Sorcerer would give up something other then money for material components?

I see it as saying "Ok, your natural blood makes it unnecessary for the minor magica foci that spells generally need. However, there is some magic so powerful that you can't replicate it with your blood alone. These mighty spells require additional specific materials to be focused through."

[Infernalbargain]

It makes sense, except for this wrinkle: what about components that cost more then 1 gp?

A Sorcerer can cast spells all day long with just their 'blood', but they are suddenly stopped by an expensive component? How does that work? They can freely cast fireball, but 'don't have enough blood' to cast forcecage without a handful of ruby dust?

So a sorcerer still needs diamonds, but not dirt? Other then the 'game balance', how do you see that working?

And does anyone have a homebrewed 'Improved Eschew Materials feat'? Something where a Sorcerer would give up something other then money for material components?

That can be fluffed by saying that the spells channels some of the energy through the components or foci and that attempting to cast them without it leads to a dangerous feedback and backlash. Spont casters have an intuitive sense of how the energy flows and can feel when such a feedback will build up.

[elykkai]

if you are worried about the 1gp limit use the feat

IGNORE MATERIAL COMPONENTS [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Eschew Materials, Spellcraft 25 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit: The character may cast spells without any material components. This feat does not affect the need for a focus or divine focus.

i personally dont like the need to cast level 9 spell but you could substitute a high charisma or maybe use for a non epic character

prerequisites: enschew materials, spellcraft 15 ranks,knowledge(arcana) 10 ranks, charisma 18+....or maybe spellcraft 10 ranks but need to cast at least level 3 spell.it is all a balance game..
but in actuality if you put on a character(sorcerer) as a bonus class feat say level 1, then you dont need any prerequistes.

i mean just picture using trap soul spell and turning the monsters body into the 1000gp diamond needed. now if the spell was somehow undone i would have the gem disappear or something, plot twist turning an evil outsider body into the gem to trap his soul,gem could be evil n may even talk to anyone who holds it trying to get someone to brake it or corrupt the holder.

[Greenish]

You notice you're a few years late to the party?

[faircoin]

http://i.imgur.com/4Zeah.jpg

[Lord Vukodlak]

http://i.imgur.com/4Zeah.jpg:amused: hilarious I'll have to remember this link.

[Crake]

if you are worried about the 1gp limit use the feat

IGNORE MATERIAL COMPONENTS [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Eschew Materials, Spellcraft 25 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit: The character may cast spells without any material components. This feat does not affect the need for a focus or divine focus.

i personally dont like the need to cast level 9 spell but you could substitute a high charisma or maybe use for a non epic character

prerequisites: enschew materials, spellcraft 15 ranks,knowledge(arcana) 10 ranks, charisma 18+....or maybe spellcraft 10 ranks but need to cast at least level 3 spell.it is all a balance game..
but in actuality if you put on a character(sorcerer) as a bonus class feat say level 1, then you dont need any prerequistes.

i mean just picture using trap soul spell and turning the monsters body into the 1000gp diamond needed. now if the spell was somehow undone i would have the gem disappear or something, plot twist turning an evil outsider body into the gem to trap his soul,gem could be evil n may even talk to anyone who holds it trying to get someone to brake it or corrupt the holder.

note that allowing something like this pre-epic is incredibly broken, because spells like forcecage or wall of iron can be spammed over and over with no worry. Forcecage without any resource expenditure is particularly broken.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Forcecage without any resource expenditure is particularly broken.

And before this thread gets locked, for the benefit of those that may read it in the future...

Shadow Evocation spells / Shadowcraft Mage doesn't just "let you cast Force cage without the expensive component." That's because of this line from Shadow Evocation, which all higher level version and ScM's Shadow Illusion (for mimicking evocations) fall back upon:

"Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect."

So you're basically at that point spending a 7th level or higher spell slot for what amounts to a save or die/lose. Still not awful, but far less impressive than "no save, just lose." That's a major downgrade commensurate with not having to pay for the component.

*Shrug* I dunno... I could just see someone snidely thinking, "well, except for illusionists..." And felt the need to shut that down, pre-emptively.

[137beth]

Mythic Eschew Materials from Mythic Adventures gives a scaling increase to the maximum cost of material components you can skip. It never gets high enough to allow you to cast limited wish for free...
and no, it isn't worth a mythic feat--the costs are too low to matter by that point.