One sorcerer spell per level - your choices?

[Jarian]

Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

Edit to clarify: We're talking actual sorcerer spellcasting, not bonus spells heaped onto a random character.

[Marnath]

Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

Like, to actually play, or more like one of those "what would you pick IRL?" type deals? It's important since I personally would pick spells I think are awesome but not for adventuring. I'd rather live. :smallwink:

[Jarian]

Ah, sorry, to play. Assuming you only got one of each level, what would you take?

[Marnath]

ok.

0th- prestidigitation narrowly beats out amanuensis for my favorite cantrip. Never having to bother actually copying anything by hand is narrowly beat out by how many things the other one can do.

1st- grease is the BC winner here for reasons I don't feel compelled to restate.

2nd- glitterdust for the same reason.

3rd- stinking cloud, are you seeing a pattern?

4th- resilient sphere I guess, hard choice though.

5th- overland flight. Walking is hard, it sucks.

6th- greater dispel because well, do I need a reason to pick one this useful?

7th- greater teleport beats out control weather here, because if I don't like the weather that well, I can just leave.

[Psyren]

Are you forced to use Cha for the save DCs of the bonus spells, or can you use your casting stat if it is different? This would help me decide if I should avoid spells that have a save or not, as well as whether its more worthwhile to be a different Cha-based class (e.g. Wilder or PF Paladin) or if I can be a psion.

Also, what is our caster level for these bonus spells - can we use our own caster/manifester level if we have one, or are we treated as having only the minimum caster level needed to cast the bonus spells?

[Marnath]

Are you forced to use Cha for the save DCs of the bonus spells, or can you use your casting stat if it is different? This would help me decide if I should avoid spells that have a save or not, as well as whether its more worthwhile to be a different Cha-based class (e.g. Wilder or PF Paladin) or if I can be a psion.

Also, what is our caster level for these bonus spells - can we use our own caster/manifester level if we have one, or are we treated as having only the minimum caster level needed to cast the bonus spells?

I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.

[Psyren]

I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.

I read it as "you get one free sorcerer spell of each spell level," e.g. you're a fighter in a magic-infused land. Though I could be wrong of course.

[Jarian]

1st- grease is the BC winner here for reasons I don't feel compelled to restate.

2nd- glitterdust for the same reason.

3rd- stinking cloud, are you seeing a pattern?

4th- resilient sphere I guess, hard choice though.

5th- overland flight. Walking is hard, it sucks.

6th- greater dispel because well, do I need a reason to pick one this useful?

7th- greater teleport beats out control weather here, because if I don't like the weather that well, I can just leave.

While wonderfully controlling given the limitations, that's all it does. I wasn't necessarily looking for the best spells ever per level, but rather the best spells of these levels combined that allow you to do the most things. Shutdown is all well and good, but the hypothetical character still needs some way of actually dealing with his enemies - hitpoint damage, domination, save or die, whatever.


I assumed the intention was we'd be taking actual sorceror levels. Naturally I'd pick different stuff if I get a real class too.

Correct. Hypothetical sorcerer with actual sorcerer casting, but only one of each spell level.

[Runestar]

May we know the context of this question? Is this to be played as a PC (say some homebrewed spellcasting class), or as some npc to be pitted against the party?

If in the hands of a PC, dealing with his foes isn't so great a concern, that's what you have fighters for. If as a solo BBEG, then that may prove a problem, but you can just as readily give him mooks as support/sponges.

[Escheton]

If I am not mistaken it is for using the spell-like of this homebrew in a lvl 8 PbP: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10583288


Personally I always liked the following spells:


Lvl 1:
Fist of stone, +6 str for 1 minute, doesnt apply to everything.
Ray of Flame, 1d6/2lvls firedmg+ IGNITES target (gotta love setting them on fire with a lvl 1 spell)

Lvl 2:
Bladeweave, adds free dazing touch attack
Fearsome grapple, teh mad grapple mods
Heroics, temporary fighter feat
Whirling blade, makes your weapon a 60ft line attack
Wraithstrike, touch attacks, nuff said

Lvl 3:
Bands of Steel, save or suck
Manyjaws, ghostkiller
Dolorous Blow, teh mad crits
Gorillon's Blessing, extra arms
Tremorsense, tremorsense 30

Lvl 4: wont come up for a bit and this post is getting lenghty...

[Amnestic]

Levels 1-7? Interesting. Anything to do with your 'Ascendant' series of classes by any chance?

1st- Magic Missile :smallcool:

2nd- Rope Trick

3rd- Fly

4th- Evard's Black Tentacles

5th- Teleport

6th- Wall of Iron

7th- Prismatic Spray

I'm sure there are better choices to make, but I like these seven.

[Marnath]

While wonderfully controlling given the limitations, that's all it does. I wasn't necessarily looking for the best spells ever per level, but rather the best spells of these levels combined that allow you to do the most things. Shutdown is all well and good, but the hypothetical character still needs some way of actually dealing with his enemies - hitpoint damage, domination, save or die, whatever.


He does have a way to do hp damage. It's called a fighter/barbarian/etc. :smallsmile:

[Jarian]

If I am not mistaken it is for using the spell-like of this homebrew in a lvl 8 PbP: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10583288

Not exactly. The Ascendant a) gets more than one spell per level, and b) has already had its spells picked out by me. The thread was inspired by the concept of minimal spells per level, but not so I could pick the most borked spells in the game.


He does have a way to do hp damage. It's called a fighter/barbarian/etc.

Missing the point of the exercise. :smalltongue:

[Escheton]

Then my spellsuggestions are probably not very good as they are mostly based on combat characters getting an edge with a spell.
A normal cast-only type would need completely diffrerent spells, I'll peruse the SC again in a bit then.

[Marnath]

Missing the point of the exercise. :smalltongue:

Fine. :smalltongue:
I'll replace my 6th and 7th for chain lightning and summon monster 7. Assuming the minimum level to cast 7th level spells, I have feats enough for energy substitution into all 4 types that aren't lightning, as well as versatile spellcaster and one or more attack reserve feats (based on whether energy sub. on chain lightning allows you to count as knowing a fire/acid/cold/sonic 6th level spell). that way I can use two or three chain lightnings a day based on my CHA and still have a slot left to power my attack reserve feat(s?).

[jiriku]

hail of stone
wings of cover
mass snake's swiftness
ruin delver's fortune
arcane fusion
freezing fog
planar bubble
Why I chose these spells: my character is a githyanki, and auto-quickens spells for free within a planar bubble. Between that and arcane fusion, I can metamagic-enhance hail of stone enough to deal respectable, unavoidable damage to multiple targets per round. Freezing fog supplies battlefield control, while mass snake's swiftness makes my allies happy, and is especially entertaining when twinned, repeated, etc. Ruin delver's fortune and wings of cover keep me safe.

[Sacrieur]

Only one person chose magic missile. For shame. And no limited wish? I mean seriously, limited wish is THE spell you want in this situation.

>_>

[Jarian]

I mean seriously, limited wish is THE spell you want in this situation.

That was my thinking too, but it's nice to see how wildly opinions vary on 7th level spells. :smallsmile:

[Amnestic]

I considered Limited Wish to fall under the "exploitative" things. I assume others did too. Plus, Prismatic Spray! Who doesn't want to shoot rainbows at people? :smallamused:

[Sacrieur]

Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

Looks like limited wish is fine. It's not exploiting the spell at all, and it does cover all of the bases.

[Lateral]

Let's see...

1- Silent Image. No contest.
2- Alter Self, with Glitterdust and Minor Image close behind.
3- Explosive Runes, just for the lulz.
4- P-p-p-Polymorph!
5- Teleport, totally.
6- Disintegrate. Has a million and one uses, all of which involve strategic destruction.
7- Limited Wish, duh.

[Marnath]

Fine. :smalltongue:
I'll replace my 6th and 7th for chain lightning and summon monster 7. Assuming the minimum level to cast 7th level spells, I have feats enough for energy substitution into all 4 types that aren't lightning, as well as versatile spellcaster and one or more attack reserve feats (based on whether energy sub. on chain lightning allows you to count as knowing a fire/acid/cold/sonic 6th level spell). that way I can use two or three chain lightnings a day based on my CHA and still have a slot left to power my attack reserve feat(s?).

Can anyone confirm for me whether that works? It would be way feat intensive but being able to operate two or three energy at-will attacks off one slot and one spell known would be great.

[Lhurgyof]

Spell levels 1-7, which spells would you pick, assuming you want to cover as many bases as possible?

There are no right or wrong answers, and I'm not looking for exploitative uses of things like Planar Binding.

Edit to clarify: We're talking actual sorcerer spellcasting, not bonus spells heaped onto a random character.

I was going to suggest all dominating and charming powers, until I noticed this wasnt an "In real life" question. xD

[Lateral]

You forgot illusions and being able to fly or teleport.

Hmm... Let's try building for that.

0- Prestidigitation, still.
1- Charm Person. Take over the world.
2- Invisibility, obviously.
3-
4- Polymorph, since it would be awesome in the real world.
5- Teleport.
6- Mass Suggestion.
7- Limited Wish.

[Marnath]

Wait, are we doing real world picks now?

0th- Mending!

1st- Endure Elements, I hate being too hot almost as much as I hate being too cold.

2nd- Detect Thoughts could provide all sorts of opportunities, legal or otherwise. I'd stick with legal, honest.:smallamused:

3rd- Water breathing, because I've always been afraid of drowning. >.>

4th- Greater Invisibility for evading nosy relatives.

5th- Baleful Polymorph, because I need some way to defend myself and it's better than just killing them. Besides, is magic really worth having if you can't turn people into toads? :smallbiggrin:

6th- Mass Suggestion, great for defusing angry mobs/barfights/those people who sing for birthdays at Applebee's.

7th- Greater Teleport, with no range limit I can go anywhere I want, and not having to worry about appearing in a wall or on a busy road is a plus over regular teleport.

[dextercorvia]

Can anyone confirm for me whether that works? It would be way feat intensive but being able to operate two or three energy at-will attacks off one slot and one spell known would be great.

It works. It is probably better on resources to pick Heighten, and Acid Spash, Ray of Frost, Lesser Orb of Lightning, and Orb of Fire. That only uses 2 0th, 1st, and 1 4th level known. And, Orb of Fire is just worth knowing.

[Marnath]

It works. It is probably better on resources to pick Heighten, and Acid Spash, Ray of Frost, Lesser Orb of Lightning, and Orb of Fire. That only uses 2 0th, 1st, and 1 4th level known. And, Orb of Fire is just worth knowing.

Yeah, heighten would be way more efficient. Actually could make that better by taking electric jolt and scorching ray, saves you a first and 4th level spell. For this particular exercise though, taking all those feats would be best.

[Escheton]

Would heighten not just up the spell level, and thus the dc? Leaving the damage the same as the base spell.
The only way that I recall such uses is heightening silent image on a very specific gnome build.

[Marnath]

Would heighten not just up the spell level, and thus the dc? Leaving the damage the same as the base spell.
The only way that I recall such uses is heightening silent image on a very specific gnome build.

No, heighten makes it count as a Xth level spell known for purposes of Fiery Burst and it's friends.

[Sacrieur]

Heighten Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell) does not raise your CL, only the spell's level. Which means that the spell functions just as it says in its description, but it is harder to counterspell or resist.

[Jarian]

Heighten Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#heightenSpell) does not raise your CL, only the spell's level. Which means that the spell functions just as it says in its description, but it is harder to counterspell or resist.

The intent is, I believe, to be able to count a single lower level spell as higher level spells for the purpose of Complete Mage's reserve feats, which require access to [Fire], [Cold], [Electric], etc, spells of a certain spell level.

[Animefunkmaster]

If your using: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10583288

Then control is what you need not damage (breath weapon in that class beaths the DFA and Warlock). You have a breath weapon and your a warrior for goodness sake. No save Control/Buffs is what you want.

1)ENLARGE PERSON
2) Alter Self (for progression, it does so much) otherwise Invisibility (depending on the party, maybe web)
3)Dispel Magic (screw magical enemy(ies)) or shivering touch (kill big things with a single touch)
4)ANIMATE DEAD!!! Better than summon monster for this class and anything with 5 hd are free... Or take polymorph. But a 1per day polymorph isn't as potent as a 1 per day animate dead.
5)Teleport
6) Tough call, nothing really shines (if you don't have polymorph by now you should take it). Acid fog is a no save win in most situations, planar binding works well with your cha and gives you more minions... or True Seeing
7)Limited wish (xp cost, yuck) or Shadow conjuration covers a great deal of bases. Otherwise force cage.

[Jarian]

As I said earlier in the thread, while the idea of the extremely limited spell list did come from the Ascendant series of classes, it is not intended for that. I would have specified if it were.

This is a hypothetical "what would you do if sorcerers got one spell per spell level" thing.

Also, no, the Ascendant's breath weapon does not beat the DFA's breath weapon.

Why? Four words for you.

Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

[grimbold]

0-Prestidigitation
1-Enlarge Person
2-Alter Self
3-Fireball
4-Polymorph
5-Baleful polymorph
6-Disintegrate
7-Limited Wish

[fryplink]

I am kind of surprised that when looking for your one spell per level that covers lots of bases no one took anything from the "Shadow conj/evok" line. The SRD appears to be offline right now, so I am doing this from memory.

0- Prestidigitation (for obvious reasons)

1- Charm Person (useful when paired with sorc. cha bonus)

2- Alter Self (with invisibility a close second)

3- Fireball (damage dealing, and I think there is a damage dealing reserve feat at this level)

4-Shadow Conj (to catch things that slipped through the cracks, notice how nothing from the Conj school is on this list up to this point)

5- Overland flight (unless I have an item of flying, then baleful polymorph)

6- Shadow Walk (my DM has always treated this as a teleport and a plane shift to inner planes spell with a 1 hour waiting period to finish)

7- Limited Wish (to REALLY catch anything that slipped through the cracks)

This is assuming you have social and combat situations at a roughly 40-60 ratio.

[Animefunkmaster]

Also, no, the Ascendant's breath weapon does not beat the DFA's breath weapon.

Why? Four words for you.

Fivefold Breath of Tiamat.

It depends on how your evaluating your class. If your looking at a straight lv 20 on both sides then, yes you are correct. From strictly damage perspective the DFA wins, barring self damaging and alignment restrictions. It has been my experience that games rarely last to 20 and beyond (I feel like every group gets to ridiculous heights and slays gods and to get it out of there system). So from a base progression stand point (which was what I was evaluating it on), the Ascendant wins. Lets look at level 10 how the DFA has a breath weapon of 5d6 and the Ascendant is 7d6.

Otherwise I stand by my chosen spells.

[JaronK]

1: Grease
2: Glitterdust, Alter Self, or Wings of Cover
3: Shrink Item or Explosive Runes (they're just so much fun!)
4: Wings of Flurry
5: Magic Jar, Shadow Evocation, Fabricate, or Permanency (the latter if there's other spells I have... Grallion Arms + Fuse Arms?)
6: Animate Dread Warrior
7: Avasculate, Greater Teleport, Simulacrum, Greater Shadow Conjuration, or Plane Shift

JaronK

[Nohwl]

1-grease
2-web
3-haste
4-polymorph
5-shadow evocation
6-planar binding
7-summon monster 7